Jeff Grubb: Dirt 5's 120Hz mode is why Xbox series X is so exciting

[Kalasai]

Technically the 120hz support never need an HDMI 2.1, because exception, no game will be 4k@120fps. HDMI 2.0 support 1440p@120. Enough for 120hz gaming on nextgen. The true gain of the 2.1 is the VRR and ALM.

For dirt, the game is clearly ugly in 120fps mode. Mid-setting with 60fps focus is the way to go.

 

[degauss]

120hz is completely useless. 99% of gamers don't even have a 120hz panel

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99% of gamers didn't have a 4K TV a few years back, things can change pretty quickly.

 

[Rabalder.]

Technically the 120hz support never need an HDMI 2.1, because exception, no game will be 4k@120fps. HDMI 2.0 support 1440p@120. Enough for 120hz gaming on nextgen.

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When going above 60fps, VRR will probably be the bigger gamechanger.

 

[Afrikan]

Has any of these recent game previews, DIRT5 or others, touched on their impressions of Ray Tracing?

I have watched about 3 Dirt5 videos that were just uploaded tonight.. but I don't think anything was mentioned. But I believe when the game was announced, Ray Tracing was supposed to be supported.

 

[Trup1aya]

120FPS will die when cross gen games die.
Halo Infinite is 120FPS because its cross gen.
Once actual games built for the new CPU/GPU are made, get ready to see 30 and 60 fps games again.

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I imagine that lower budget games and certain genres like platformers, side strollers, and fighters will keep the high framerates. Competitive shooters will probably keep the option too, if I had to guess.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

I am curious, since this is a dynamic 1080p on Series X, is this gonna be 720p on Series S?

 

[plow]

99% of gamers didn't have a 4K TV a few years back, things can change pretty quickly.

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FULLHD, 4K, 8K are bigg Buzzwords that are heavily marketed. We already had 4k Movies and Streaming back then. Movies and Shows are not done in 120hz and won't in the near future so people will not care for 120hz tvs.

 

[chris 1515]

Has any of these recent game previews, DIRT5 or others, touched on their impressions of Ray Tracing?

I have watched about 3 Dirt5 videos that were just uploaded tonight.. but I don't think anything was mentioned. But I believe when the game was announced, Ray Tracing was supposed to be supported.

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Raytracing is not in Dirt 5. You need to wait DMC 5 special edition patch for Xbox Series X|S and Watchdog Legions.

 

[xtib81]

The 1% who do are the hardcore players who spend the most money on gaming.

It's an option. What's there not to like having options?

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Oh I'm fine with it as long as we have the choice, it's just that hardly anyone will enjoy the 120hz, but yeah nothing against it. I just wouldn't call next gen consoles exciting because they Can reach 120hz

 

[Omnistalgic]

If you watch the video it's not about the XBox Series X vs the PS5, it's largely about why next gen consoles are exciting, but obviously he only has an XBSX so that's the lens to view things through.

The point he's making is basically that consoles make high framerate gaming easier and more enjoyable than it might be on PC's, regardless of compromises, because it's almost plug & play. I can agree to this, PC gaming is often infuriatingly difficult to tweak when you want to hit a framerate target and that's why we see huge performance threads and suggested settings / optimized settings videos from the community or places like DF.

It's the age old debate of absolute control (PC) vs ease of use (Console).

As a random aside I reckon high framerate support is a real boon for indies developing on next gen consoles, games made in the space I occupy often have aesthetics that are designed with our limitations in mind but scaling up framerate is a nice bonus. If I had the time/resources to make a sequel to my last action heavy game I would almost surely target 120fps on consoles, fast paced games play and look so much better at high framerates.

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Tks for this post! Genuinely made me more excited for PS5 day. One more month! Can't wait to play stuff like MHW in 60fps and Destiny 2. Should be a gen to remember and good environment for indies to stand out as AAA space chases the same things.

 

[Puroresu_kid]

At times this place is so toxic to MS for no good reason.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

I am curious, since this is a dynamic 1080p on Series X, is this gonna be 720p on Series S?

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I assume that mode simply isn't available on Series S.

At times this place is so toxic to MS for no good reason.

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If it comforts you, Dirt 5 @120 fps will look bad on PS5, too....

 

[TooFriendly]

What's with all the people saying that it's pointless because hardly anyone has a TV capable of 120fps.

no shit Sherlock ... it's new!

This is a new generation of consoles and TVs being released. Do you think that if everyone can't access the new technology right now then we shouldn't bother having new tech?

the point is that this years mid to high level TVs have 120fps capability. That means that from now on, pretty much all mid level TVs will have 120fps as standard. HDMI 2.1 spec is new, and a great marketing point for new sets. I'm pretty sure that 120fps will be easier and cheaper to implement for manufacturers than accurate colours and correct HDR/peak brightness.

yeah 120fps games will not be the target for AAA games, just like 60fps isn't. But for indie games and AA action focussed games it will be great. I'm really looking forward to it, despite not owning a TV that can do it yet.

 

[EvilBoris]

Technically the 120hz support never need an HDMI 2.1, because exception, no game will be 4k@120fps. HDMI 2.0 support 1440p@120. Enough for 120hz gaming on nextgen. The true gain of the 2.1 is the VRR and ALM.

For dirt, the game is clearly ugly in 120fps mode. Mid-setting with 60fps focus is the way to go.

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There are already games that are 1800p 120hz and even 8K 60hz; neither of which are possible without hdmi 2.1.

Where does this come from?
Alongside 1440p is enough , there is a weird amount of people no wanting any kind of option for onward progression.

 

[MrKlaw]

Its fine for 120fps games to not look at good. Its unreasonable to expect them to look like 4k/60 or 4k/30 modes. Its about choice.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

I assume that mode simply isn't available on Series S.

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Dirt 5 unterstützt 120fps auf der Xbox Series S

Auf der Xbox Series S wird Codemasters' Rennspiel Dirt 5 ebenfalls 120fps unterstützen, aber natürlich nur sofern euer Bildschirm das packt!

www.eurogamer.de

It is confirmed to have it as well.

 

[nekkid]

Sony aren't paying him or his white outline.

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They're not giving anyone a console to talk about.

 

[Deleted member 29599]

What will be interesting to see is going forward if 120 FPS is something developers continue to include or if it will be like the brief 3D fad in the 360/PS3 era. And the current VR fad (yeah i said it). If it doesn't take much work to include 120 FPS modes then maybe it will keep being included as another option for future proofing the way that some recent games have with their optional high quality/60 FPS modes that current consoles struggle with like Monster Hunter World or FF15 did.

Seeing as developers are going to have to scale their games to work both on lower spec PC's and Series S i could see a scenario playing out where they have for instance a game running at 1080p 60FPS for Series S and just do a bit of work to get that same mode and visual fidelity to run a 120 FPS on Series X. Assuming it's that easy, i could be way off base. If it's something that's going to take a considerable amount of effort to achieve i honestly can't see it sticking around, not for the miniscule amount of people who would be able to use it.

 

[chris 1515]

At times this place is so toxic to MS for no good reason.

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120 fps mode will look bad on PS5 too. I am a console guy but on PC with more raw power, games can look much better at 120 fps. I think based the marketing on a feature available to 1% of consoles gamers is not very good but this is another story.

 

[degauss]

Technically the 120hz support never need an HDMI 2.1, because exception, no game will be 4k@120fps. HDMI 2.0 support 1440p@120. Enough for 120hz gaming on nextgen. The true gain of the 2.1 is the VRR and ALM.

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Plenty of 4k60hz games on PS4 Pro, I see no reason why they wouldn't be 4k120hz. Rocket League, Warzone, Fornite, to name a few popular ones that will go there.

PS4 Pro doesn't even support 1440p output, only 1080p or 4k. PS5 might be different, but I wouldn't bet on it.

PS5 may just simply output at 1080p/120 OR 4k/120 depending on the HDMI version. This might be simpler for developers a third, niche output resolution/frame-rate set into the mix.

1440p limit at 120hz on some high end TVs (that ultimately use a 4k panel) really seems to be just a temporary stop-gap that will become less common very soon with time. The most common future configurations will be either 4k60 on the low end and HDMI 2.1 4k120 on the high end.

 

[Deleted member 4976]

If Dirt 5 is indicative of how 120FPS games will look, the mode will largely die.

The game looks aggressively medicore visually.

 

[SixelAlexiS]

to be fair this looks a loot like Driveclub: Rallye.
Which i love!

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Oh yeah, I'm with you on this:

What, there are point to point races too? Oh my... this seems more and more like the Driveclub Rally Expansion I even wanted, let's hope it's going to play just as good <3

[too bad about the illumination that is really flat on daily scenes like that]

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but we have to see how it plays... not easy to replicate DC feelings.
Tech wise DC was better, but at 30fps... this Dirt 5 is still a cross gen title at the end of the day so I can understand the priorities.

 

[Protome]

At times this place is so toxic to MS for no good reason.

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Wrong thread? The only potentially "toxic to MS" thing I've seen in here is the person who accused Grubb of being paid off (which was a really stupid thing to accuse.)

 

[degauss]

120 fps mode will look bad on PS5 too. I am a console guy but on PC with more raw power, games can look much better at 120 fps. I think based the marketing on a feature available to 1% of consoles gamers is not very good but this is another story.

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"will look bad" - Do 99% of PC High-framerate players play games that 'look bad', because most of them have machines probably less powerful than these consoles. They will look good, just 'less good' than when set to 60hz.

 

[chris 1515]

"will look bad" - Do 99% of PC High-framerate players play games that 'look bad', because most of them have machines probably less powerful than these consoles. They will look good, just 'less good' than when set to 60hz.

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Ars played the game and this what they have to say about the 120 fps mode. This is looking bad whatever you said. Very Aggressive LOD, popin issues for textures and shadows, no ambient occlusion, less assets around track and dynamic 1080p with sub 1080p on busy scenes. There are tons of sacrifice in this mode.

You can check my history I am a PS4 player and will buy a PS5 when I will be able to find one easily. For the moment I did not succeed to preorder one. And I think 120 fps ask too much sacrifice, I think 60 fps is a better compromise.

The visual quality continues to dwindle when you take things all the way to 120fps mode, at which point major visual features disappear. The worst is an aggressive level-of-detail (LoD) downgrade for any elements near and above the race track. Mountains start to look less like mountains and more like college-grade assets purchased directly from the Unity development store. Tree-lined hillsides lose some trees. Cars lose polygonal detail and flourishes like grills. And the crowds of cheering fans sitting or standing by the road all disappear, even though the game's audio doesn't reflect this reality. (If you think fake crowds in pandemic sports games are bad enough, you ain't seen nothin'.)

Additionally, pop-in issues become much more apparent for both textures and shadows, and ambient occlusion is axed across the board. Those distant trees look weirder without a coat of accurate shadows, while ground textures look decidedly flat in this mode. Plus, its dynamic resolution appears to max out near the 1080p mark, dropping further during busy scenes

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[Teenage Fansub]

If Dirt 5 is indicative of how 120FPS games will look, the mode will largely die.

The game looks aggressively medicore visually.

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I'm sure it'll be more commonly used for games like Ori or the next Pac-Man CE type thing where there wouldn't have to be huge compromises.

 

[grmlin]

Imagine Driveclub 2 at 120FPS.






Now wake up and shed tears on the pillow.

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The first one updated for PS5 to run at 4K 60 would be good enough for me :)

 

[Deleted member 9584]

120hz is completely useless. 99% of gamers don't even have a 120hz panel

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It's a good thing they have a 4k 60fps option. You make it sound like the entire game is forced to run at 1080p so it could be 120fps.

 

[TooFriendly]

Wouldn't fast paced games like this that are all about loading new assets as you rush forward through the scene be perfect for the new SSD based consoles?

could games based around that fast loading, compensate for other graphical effects and lend themselves to 120fps gameplay?

 

[DrDeckard]

Ars played the game and this what they have to say about the 120 fps mode. This is looking bad whatever you said. Very Aggressive LOD, popin issues for textures and shadows, no ambient occlusion, less assets around track and dynamic 1080p with sub 1080p on busy scenes. There are tons of sacrifice in this mode.

You can check my history I am a PS4 player and will buy a PS5 when I will be able to find one easily.

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As a pc player, with a lot of friends who drop settings to low on many options to hit North of 144 there will be plenty of people happy to make the sacrifice to hit these frames.

A lot of people will not like it and never touch it, but it's a nice option for users to have. Sacrifices must be made to hit these frames.

 

[Dphex]

Lmao, we´ve barely reached 60 fps on consoles and now the handful of 120hz games are getting hyped, it is more a marketing gimmick than anything else considering how bad the game looks when reaching those framerates.

i could see it for some indie games but other than that...it isn´t worth it. if someone wants those framerates, just build a PC.

 

[SixelAlexiS]

The first one updated for PS5 to run at 4K 60 would be good enough for me :)

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Yeah I know but that's never gonna happen, ironically would have more chance a sequel, and this say something about DC fate X'D... :'(

 

[Sambo]

Technically speaking, you can make any game 120fps. It's just a case of how far developers are willing to take down the resolution and image quality settings.

 

[chris 1515]

As a pc player, with a lot of friends who drop settings to low on many options to hit North of 144 there will be plenty of people happy to make the sacrifice to hit these frames.

A lot of people will not like it and never touch it, but it's a nice option for users to have. Sacrifices must be made to hit these frames.

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It will depend of people and I have a 4k TV able to support 1440p and 1080p 120 fps and I don't think this is very important and totally overrated as a sales pitch. This is not only asking tons of sacrifice but it is accessible to a minority of player.

EDIT:
If I had a 3080 or 3090 or a 6900XT if rumors are true maybe my interest will be different.

 

[dodmaster]

You'd think 120fps was a bad thing, reading this thread. 120fps, bad LOD and pop in at 1080p is an upgrade over 4K 60, for a racing title.

 

[RulkezX]

Folk actually think we're going to get next gen visuals at 120fps ?

Or are a lot of you happy to just continue to play games with current gen visuals at 120fps ?

 

[BoxScar]

In the interview with Digital Foundry, Codemasters said (or the dude who works for them) that they're still optimising, and will be optimising down to the wire, so it may be in terms of image quality, frame drops etc that some of it will be sorted out.
That said, the capture footage looks a bit rough, and the YouTube compression doesn't help (and the video is only at 60fps), so I feel like it might be looking worse than it is. Hopefully they can release a demo so folks can experience it for themselves as the jump between 60fps and 120fps is huge in terms of gameplay. And if you want higher fidelity the options are there.

 

[degauss]

Ars played the game and this what they have to say about the 120 fps mode. This is looking bad whatever you said. Very Aggressive LOD, popin issues for textures and shadows, no ambient occlusion, less assets around track and dynamic 1080p with sub 1080p on busy scenes. There are tons of sacrifice in this mode.

You can check my history I am a PS4 player and will buy a PS5 when I will be able to find one easily. For the moment I did not succeed to preorder one. And I think 120 fps ask too much sacrifice, I think 60 fps is a better compromise.

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Sounds like an unoptimised, unfinished game, unsurprising during lockdown, let's see how it turns out. To me it's just some minor LOD/shadow/pop-in bugs that will get ironed out with a bit more time. The core game itself looks absolutely fine.

I agree with your central point, I don't think 120hz is worth it for a lot of games and I prefer fidelity mode also (for anything that isn't very fast paced). I'll probably enable it in Warzone, Rocket league, and maybe Dirt 5, not sure yet.

But I get a bit triggered when people imply that high frame rate gaming looks better on PC.... sure, it probably does if you have a very expensive PC and managed to snag a 3080 (which very few people have managed so far), but these consoles will do high frame rate gaming at settings beyond what 95-99% of PC's currently do HFR gaming at.

 

[Paz]

Tks for this post! Genuinely made me more excited for PS5 day. One more month! Can't wait to play stuff like MHW in 60fps and Destiny 2. Should be a gen to remember and good environment for indies to stand out as AAA space chases the same things.

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You're welcome, just trying to have a level headed take on something that could easily turn into console wars silliness :P

 

[DrDeckard]

It will depend of people and I have a 4k TV able to support 1440p and 1080p 120 fps and I don't think this is very important and totally overrated as a sales pitch. This is not only asking tons of sacrifice but it is accessible to a minority of player.

EDIT:
If I had a 3080 or 3090 or a 6900XT if rumors are true maybe my interest will be different.

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It will be for people with a monitor or TV that supports it yes. For those poeple that really see the benefit of 120FPS over 60. as it is a massive increase in fluidity.

Some won't want it and some will. As long as the overall game doesnt suffer, it's great that we have these options.

I totally get how it might not interest you and that's fine.

 

[rntongo]

Ultra performance is not why I'm excited for next gen, that's what PC gaming is about. I don't care about frame rates. I care about the improvements in visuals that next gen will bring.

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Honestly this is important. 60 fps but pushing visuals to the max at 4K is enough. I can understand for racing and sports the higher fps the better, but in such titles hitting such fps(120) hasn't been difficult in the past.

 

[Linus815]

i love how one single game that supports 120 fps comes out with footage and suddenly everyone has an opinion on 120hz as a whole lol
it is entirely possible that codemasters arent exactly pushing the technological envlope here, and other devs could do more while maintaining 120 fps.
reminder, the biggest game of almost every year, cod, will have 120 fps modes for mp on ps5 and xsx.

and constantly repeating "its niche! no one cares" is something id expect from a bunch of luddites, which is ironic considering this is a gaming forum discussing next gen constantly. When fortnite and cod runs at 120 fps and people realize how fucking good it feels, 120hz as an option will become far more sought after.

there is a reason why so many people are ok with compromising graphics quality on PC just to get consistently over 100 fps. Certain games improve massively from it.

 

[rntongo]

99% of gamers didn't have a 4K TV a few years back, things can change pretty quickly.

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4k 120 TVs seem to be the next big thing tbh.

 

[chris 1515]

Sounds like an unoptimised, unfinished game, unsurprising during lockdown, let's see how it turns out. To me it's just some minor LOD/shadow/pop-in bugs that will get ironed out with a bit more time. The core game itself looks absolutely fine.

I agree with your central point, I don't think 120hz is worth it for a lot of games and I prefer fidelity mode also (for anything that isn't very fast paced). I'll probably enable it in Warzone, Rocket league, and maybe Dirt 5, not sure yet.

But I get a bit triggered when people imply that high frame rate gaming looks better on PC.... sure, it probably does if you have a very expensive PC and managed to snag a 3080 (which very few people have managed so far), but these consoles will do high frame rate gaming at settings beyond what 95-99% of PC's currently do HFR gaming at.

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This is expensive. For car games 4k 60 fps or 1440 60 fps with reconstruction and probably in the future of consoles deep learning reconstruction is enough for me.

I will play Demon Soul's in 1440p temporal injection 60 fps mode for example.

 

[Nateo]

120hz is completely useless. 99% of gamers don't even have a 120hz panel

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You contradict your own statement. You can benifit from higher fps at lower refresh rates regardless, its not useless its and option moronic statements like this and other stupid ones on how its dead in x days-years blow my mind.

 

[Malcolm9]

4k 120 TVs seem to be the next big thing tbh.

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Actually 8k TVs are the ones being pushed at the mo. Crazy when 4k isn't even the standard yet.

 

[Protome]

I will play Demon Soul's in 1440p temporal injection 60 fps mode for example.

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Wait, is Demon's Souls confirmed to use Temporal Injection? I thought only Insomniac games used that?

 

[Tennis]

This extremely cool and I hope more games will offer similar options in the future. This is only a positive thing! Can't wait for 120fps Rocket League.

 

[Deleted member 81119]

Honestly this is important. 60 fps but pushing visuals to the max at 4K is enough. I can understand for racing and sports the higher fps the better, but in such titles hitting such fps(120) hasn't been difficult in the past.

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More power to people who value this stuff, and if Xbox Series X can pull it off then you'll get no complaints from me. My CONCERN (yes I know...) is that by pushing for 120fps then visuals wouldn't be as complex and compromises would have to be made elsewhere. I'd still much rather have a 30FPS checkerboard 4K picture if it meant super complex geometries and visual effects like RT. But I know different strokes for different folks and all.

 

[M.Bluth]

I don't get it. It's an option. That's good.
I don't think the game looks good at 120fps, I'd definitely choose 60 with better graphics over this, but who cares? People who want it can use it and hopefully enjoy it.