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Urthor

Member
Oct 28, 2017
167
Because consumer opinions are lighting quick and turn faster than any weather vane.

And because the ultimate commodity is fun, and you cannot predict where the next hit is coming from.

It's a world where your entire franchise, revenue stream of hundreds of millions of dollars and the future of your 9 figure esports league is upended Overnight because a small Korean studio made PUBG and put a stranglehold on the first person shooter market.

It's somewhere where in the past few years literally two mods, Battlegrounds and Auto Chess, have *changed the fortunes of billion dollar companies*.

Not to mention the Harvest Moon franchise basically being reborn as a genre because one guy in his basement made Stardew Valley and other crazy shit.

When billion dollar businesses are being upended by people in their bedrooms, well that is volatile.

And it works because the fundamental business of gamedev, the gameplay loop, isn't a commodity that you can production line or predict, ultimately it's sheer creativity that generates it.
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,127
I hope it's more about how volatility affects people and less about why volatility exists in the gaming market. Other than that, I'm excited to read this one, Blood Sweat and Pixel was pretty good.
 

TetraGenesis

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,138
The greater discussion of late capitalism aside, why have so many people come into this thread answering Jason's thesis question as if he were seriously asking?

That's what the fucking book is about, y'all.
 

Green Yoshi

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,597
Cologne (Germany)
It's a shame that no German publishing house wanted to translate the book. At least there's a French version.

Looking forward to the next book. Is it coming out this year?
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,780
I wonder if people replying with communism and 'seize the terms of production!' are serious or not. Literally this is the only forum where that would happen, lol.

The first reason is... just the same as the first book from Jason. Game development is hard as hell. One company can make a great game and found themselves with unexpected problems and years of delay in the next one. With these starting conditions, game industry will be always volatile.
The second reason is, a supply/demand market problem. Just look at Steam or any mobile store, there is xx times more games than needed/the market can support. Even 15 years ago, before the explosion of smartphones and indie development, it always has been said that most retail games don't get to make profits. It isn't primarily a quality issue, honestly I don't believe people are going to buy 4 times more games than they do currently even if the average metacritic score goes up by 8 points. Much less 15 times which is closer to what it would be needed now, or find 15 times more people to buy games (which would be in detriment of other industries, because surprise, money isn't infinite)

Ironically good ol'fashioned communism would indeed fix some of these issues, by ordering people to some other industries and directly addressing the supply issue.
 

PixelatedDonut

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,966
Philly ❤️
The greater discussion of late capitalism aside, why have so many people come into this thread answering Jason's thesis question as if he were seriously asking?

That's what the fucking book is about, y'all.
Well people are discussing the topic of the book, if not this thread would be people just saying cool, can't wait to read, loved his first book....
 

Keasar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,724
UmeĂĄ, Sweden
Not to mention that it continues past game development and you then have to deal with "the fans".

I swear, the games medium is a lot more fucking savage at times than ancient arena blood sports were.
 

MadMod

Member
Dec 4, 2017
2,724
Read the first book, loved it, pretty much each chapter. Therefore I cant wait for the next book, I have a feeling it will be a hard read, but a necessary one.
 

Sankara

Alt Account
Banned
May 19, 2019
1,311
Paris
If you want to avoid volatility, communism hardly seems like the way to go.

One, Das Kapital isn't about communism, but a criticism of capitalism. It is precisely the answer to why the games industry, among almost all other capitalist modes of production, are "volatile". A book on game development that doesn't include Marx or mention the word capitalism is at best a superficial analysis.

Two, have you looked outside the window or read the news lately? With a sixth mass extinction , historical high wealth inequality, literal concentration camps by those in power, and of course game devs getting exploited, I don't know how much more volatile it can get.
 

alstrike

Banned
Aug 27, 2018
2,151
He wants to sell books not cure people's insomnia.

giphy.gif
 

legend166

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,113
I can't tell if the talking about marixism is trolling/done ironically or if people are actually that stupid.

Anyway, the obvious answer is that the gaming industry is fucking clown-shoes when it comes to fundamental project management with the lack of accountability and deadlines until its too late. IMO this is easily a much more simple question to answer than in the first book.

E.g how does BioWare get the freedom to work on a game for years without any accountability when it comes to actual deliverables and milestones even in its first year? How did they get so far without fundamentally nailing down the concept and gameplay loop they wanted within the first 18 months (and 18 months is generous)? Is EA to blame for not demanding more accountability from them, or is BioWare for not being actually operating like a company that produces software?

The one that stuck out to me was I think Creative Assembly spending ages developing a Halo MMORPG without any indication at all from Microsoft this was something they wanted or would allow.

Anyway, all the 'lol capitalism' responses are so reductive as if there are many other industries that function in free market economies that don't experience these things.
 

MisterSpo

One Winged Slayer
Member
Feb 12, 2019
9,080
Just bought Blood, Sweat and Pixels for ÂŁ4.62 in the Amazon Prime sale, so I'll keep an eye on this.
 

Oddhouse

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,036
Really liked his first book.

Maybe it's the extract of the post but it makes it sound like Jason is singling out the video game industry as being more volatile than other industries. In my experience every industry has cycles, there are tough managers, companies in every industry.

I wonder if Jason has experienced other industries. I hope so as it will give the book greater comparisons.
 

strudelkuchen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,070
One, Das Kapital isn't about communism, but a criticism of capitalism. It is precisely the answer to why the games industry, among almost all other capitalist modes of production, are "volatile". A book on game development that doesn't include Marx or mention the word capitalism is at best a superficial analysis.

Two, have you looked outside the window or read the news lately? With a sixth mass extinction , historical high wealth inequality, literal concentration camps by those in power, and of course game devs getting exploited, I don't know how much more volatile it can get.
Very well said.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
27,941
I wonder if people replying with communism and 'seize the terms of production!' are serious or not. Literally this is the only forum where that would happen, lol.

The first reason is... just the same as the first book from Jason. Game development is hard as hell. One company can make a great game and found themselves with unexpected problems and years of delay in the next one. With these starting conditions, game industry will be always volatile.
The second reason is, a supply/demand market problem. Just look at Steam or any mobile store, there is xx times more games than needed/the market can support. Even 15 years ago, before the explosion of smartphones and indie development, it always has been said that most retail games don't get to make profits. It isn't primarily a quality issue, honestly I don't believe people are going to buy 4 times more games than they do currently even if the average metacritic score goes up by 8 points. Much less 15 times which is closer to what it would be needed now, or find 15 times more people to buy games (which would be in detriment of other industries, because surprise, money isn't infinite)

Ironically good ol'fashioned communism would indeed fix some of these issues, by ordering people to some other industries and directly addressing the supply issue.
I think a lot of people think there are a bunch of obvious and well known for a very long time reasons for the volatility, hence some replies not being super serious.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
Two, have you looked outside the window or read the news lately? With a sixth mass extinction , historical high wealth inequality, literal concentration camps by those in power, and of course game devs getting exploited, I don't know how much more volatile it can get.
Communist states inevitably collapse after a fairly short time, so by nature I'd say they are more volatile. Do you really think the USSR, North Korea, or Cuba were models of economic stability? Or that they didn't produce huge wealth inequality? How is the game industry working in those countries (if at all)?
 

z1ggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,187
Argentina
Communist states inevitably collapse after a fairly short time, so by nature I'd say they are more volatile. Do you really think the USSR, North Korea, or Cuba were models of economic stability? Or that they didn't produce huge wealth inequality? How is the game industry working in those countries (if at all)?
Commies will tell you they werent communist countries, because Stalin, Pol Pot and son.
 

Filipus

Prophet of Regret
Avenger
Dec 7, 2017
5,128
I mean, I doubt that the book will focus on the capitalistic problems of our economy guys. If anything, I would bet it focuses more on the changes our industry has to implement (like unionization)

Loved BSP, can't wait for this one. Stories need to be told and Jason is the man for the job.
 

SeanBoocock

Senior Engineer @ Epic Games
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
248
Austin, Texas
Just got the email giving a few details of the upcoming book from our favorite press sneak.

He goes into a little more detail behind the idea but here's the most relevant part:



Really looking forward to this. Jason has been a vocal proponent of unionization in gaming for a while now, and peeling back the layers of "why" in a detailed deep dive will hopefully change some minds and shed some light on the subject.
Looking forward to this. Jason is one of the best people to tackle this and I hope he can dig deep on both the human and financial sides of the business. Real numbers are hard to come by, but some visibility into what they look like would be useful context for both the business overall and individual anecdotes where things didn't turn out as planned.

Also, can really relate to the bit about "all hands meeting" invites. I would get mini panic attacks about them for a couple years after my first big layoff and game cancellation.
 

jschreier

Press Sneak Fuck
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,082
Really liked his first book.

Maybe it's the extract of the post but it makes it sound like Jason is singling out the video game industry as being more volatile than other industries. In my experience every industry has cycles, there are tough managers, companies in every industry.

I wonder if Jason has experienced other industries. I hope so as it will give the book greater comparisons.
Reading the entire thing should offer more context: https://tinyletter.com/jasonschreier/letters/blood-sweat-and-pixels-2-bloodier-sweatier-pixelier
 

Deleted member 873

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,463
Marx's critiques of capitalism are still worth engaging with; dismissing their relevance to the game industry is the actually stupid take here.
Yeah, they clearly never touched a Marx book. Even the most liberal economist will do that in their lives, but some of y'all will just say "communism??? Rly?? Lmao!!!"
 

gosublime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,429
Just bought the first book today. I'd heard about it before but his article on Anthem made me want to read more from him. Have to finish Priory of the Orange tree first though!
 

btags

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,078
Gaithersburg MD
Don't know if you can say anything yet, but do you plan to compare the videogame industry to other industries as other posters have mentioned to show why the videogame industry is currently so volatile/where it should go? I feel like a lot of people bring up the film industry as one that is similar to videogames but more mature, but having not worked in either I would have no idea.
 

Crumpo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,131
Bournemouth, UK
I can't tell if the talking about marixism is trolling/done ironically or if people are actually that stupid.

Anyway, the obvious answer is that the gaming industry is fucking clown-shoes when it comes to fundamental project management with the lack of accountability and deadlines until its too late. IMO this is easily a much more simple question to answer than in the first book.

E.g how does BioWare get the freedom to work on a game for years without any accountability when it comes to actual deliverables and milestones even in its first year? How did they get so far without fundamentally nailing down the concept and gameplay loop they wanted within the first 18 months (and 18 months is generous)? Is EA to blame for not demanding more accountability from them, or is BioWare for not being actually operating like a company that produces software?

This is what I took away from the book. As a project manager for a bank I was cringing pretty hard through large segments of the book. The message for a lot of chapters was "these people have no idea how to manage a major multi-year project through to completion". And you're bang on with the criticism needing to be reversed - instead of fearing "Corporate influence" there should be more professional structure and oversight implemented in projects like this. Leaving the creatives to manage the entire project is going to naturally end in months and months of wasted time, which drives people to crunch to make up for lost time.

This method will stifle creativity to some extent but it is intended to focus attention and minimise wasted effort. It will not eliminate crunch but will certainly help reduce the numbers of situations that forces crunch or delay.

I hope in the second book the management is given a harder grilling on why they are unable to manage these projects and waste significant amounts of developer time, as they all got an easy pass in the last book.
 

treasureyez

Member
Nov 23, 2017
1,336
This is what I took away from the book. As a project manager for a bank I was cringing pretty hard through large segments of the book. The message for a lot of chapters was "these people have no idea how to manage a major multi-year project through to completion". And you're bang on with the criticism needing to be reversed - instead of fearing "Corporate influence" there should be more professional structure and oversight implemented in projects like this. Leaving the creatives to manage the entire project is going to naturally end in months and months of wasted time, which drives people to crunch to make up for lost time.

This method will stifle creativity to some extent but it is intended to focus attention and minimise wasted effort. It will not eliminate crunch but will certainly help reduce the numbers of situations that forces crunch or delay.

I hope in the second book the management is given a harder grilling on why they are unable to manage these projects and waste significant amounts of developer time, as they all got an easy pass in the last book.

This is a great post, and echoes what I was thinking the entire time I was reading Jason's stellar Anthem piece.