Jason Ronald Inverse interview: BC testing took about 16-24 hours per title; had over 500 people testing; new 360/OG titles will be difficult

Fawz · Nov 3, 2020

They've done impressive amazing work and it's nice to see discussion about QA Testing ressources because it's such a massive aspect of game development that often gets ignored. Sounds like they had quite the undertaking to tackle and seemingly did a great job. Looking forward to trying out titles that still behaved terribly on XB1X like Fable 2

I look forward to seeing what else they can do in the future to further expand and enhance backwards compatibility offerings!

Rogue Kiwi · Nov 3, 2020

I still don't understand why they need to licence all of this, just make the disk version work.

Alive2007 · Nov 3, 2020

all of the racing games with licensing issues... if they could figure something out to get all of those classics I'd cry

I would be very happy to see the OG Xbox version of Arx Fatalis!

Nacery · Nov 3, 2020

Hope that at least all the games available in the Xbox 360 marketplace gets the BC treatment there are some very interesting titles that are inexplicably unavailable yet like Bionic Commando Rearmed 1 or Persona 4 Arena Ultimax, also there are some great OG Xbox Microsoft exclusive titles were licensing shouldn't be an issue.

Deleted member 46804 · Nov 3, 2020

Rogue Kiwi said:
I still don't understand why they need to licence all of this, just make the disk version work.

Good luck with that. This can't happen unless they included the original hardware in the box.

litebrite · Nov 3, 2020

Rogue Kiwi said:
I still don't understand why they need to licence all of this, just make the disk version work.

Games require to be installed to harddrive in order to play and Xbox uses a software emulator for BC Xbox 360/OG Xbox games, therefore digital games have to be uploaded to their servers individually wrapped with a finely tuned emulator and downloaded to your console which requires sorting out licensing/publishing deals to allow Xbox to do this.

Wet Jimmy · Nov 3, 2020

Some licenses may also be time limited, platform specific, contain seperate license agreements for music or image content, contain clauses about original form, etc. It's an absolute minefield of an area and shouldn't be underestimated.

GreenMonkey · Nov 3, 2020

jsnepo said:
Now it's understandable why Sony isn't pushing for BC. It's hard work.

Except of course for PS2 and PS1 games. No excuse for that.

PS1 emulation maybe. PS2 emulation isn't easy - Sony's own emulation-only solution on the PS3 was spotty. Open source PS2 emulation of some titles is still a mess (like Jack and Daxte, for example). Even in-house emulation of Jack & Daxter is still a mess in the PS3/PS4 editions.

Rogue Kiwi · Nov 3, 2020

litebrite said:
Games require to be installed to harddrive in order to play and Xbox uses a software emulator for BC Xbox 360/OG Xbox games, therefore digital games have to be uploaded to their servers individually wrapped with a finely tuned emulator and downloaded to your console which requires sorting out licensing/publishing deals to allow Xbox to do this.

The fact that a professional almost trillion dollar company can't create a brute force emulator which hobbyist coders can is incredibly concerning though. A generic software emulator would get around the need for that server distribution.

Lukas Taves · Nov 3, 2020

digitalrelic said:
"We started on day one of the program. We've been working on the Xbox Series X and Series S since 2016. Before we even had silicon, we would take performance captures of existing games and run them on a simulator of the next-generation chip. That allowed us to identify potential issues in the silicon before it was even produced."

Holy shit.

They did it with X as well.

I guess it's one of the reasons why X was such an well designed console, it had the entire xbone catalog to profile its performance.

And going by the early showings SX is following the same path :)

Grazzt · Nov 3, 2020

Thank you for your hard work, BC team!

Jiraiya · Nov 3, 2020

Next gen games continously getting performance boosts with each generation that follows. Microsoft studio titles are going scale so well going forward.

litebrite · Nov 3, 2020

Rogue Kiwi said:
The fact that a professional almost trillion dollar company can't create a brute force emulator which hobbyist coders can is incredibly concerning though. A generic software emulator would get around the need for that server distribution.

C'mon Rogue Kiwi LOL

We've already been through this. There is nothing concerning, yet alone incredibly concerning about this and the BC team has done an amazing job so far.

Lukas Taves · Nov 3, 2020

Rogue Kiwi said:
The fact that a professional almost trillion dollar company can't create a brute force emulator which hobbyist coders can is incredibly concerning though. A generic software emulator would get around the need for that server distribution.

They can. They decided not to because there's more value when the games are treated as equal and supporting all the features.

And I think they made the right call. On 360 BC was quickly forgotten by the users, on xbone by having the games properly integrated and with a native feel it became one of the most popular features of the console.

Gitaroo · Nov 3, 2020

360 and OG titles being difficult is not what I want to hear tbh. Still many more to add, if they can't add more at least enhance all current one to 4k.

Ecco45 · Nov 3, 2020

Is there a list yet of 360 games that are getting performance boosts on XSX?

I think the only one MS has confirmed so far is Fallout 4 in that video they posted a few weeks ago.

litebrite · Nov 3, 2020

Lukas Taves said:
They can. They decided not to because there's more value when the games are treated as equal and supporting all the features.

And I think they made the right call. On 360 BC was quickly forgotten by the users, on xbone by having the games properly integrated and with a native feel it became one of the most popular features of the console.

Yeah, I remember reading or hearing in an interview they chose their BC solution because it allowed them the ability to do more with BC games than at best having the game look and play exactly the same as it did on original hardware.

Gitaroo said:
360 and OG titles being difficult is not what I want to hear tbh. Still many more to add, if they can't add more at least enhance all current one to 4k.

It's unlikely they will ever have the ability to enhance all BC games to 4k. There's no magical switch that can do it.

Ecco45 said:
Is there a list yet of 360 games that are getting performance boosts on XSX?

I think the only one MS has confirmed so far is Fallout 4 in that video they posted a few weeks ago.

The BC team have only given one example for increasing native resolution to 4k and one example for doubling the framerate on XSX and they've been both XB1 games: Gears Ultimate and Fallout 4, respectively.

Yabberwocky · Nov 3, 2020

Fantastic article, I've been so grateful for Xbox's focus on backwards compatibility.

My kingdom for NieR: Gestalt - I know Cavia is gone, but c'mon, Square!

Deleted member 23475 · Nov 3, 2020

Orayn said:
Worth pointing out that he's saying the process has always been difficult due to licensing, not that it's any more difficult now than before.

This. I feel the thread subject is a bit misleading as it's even about gamepass specifically and licensing.

PIMPBYBLUD · Nov 3, 2020

All I wanted was MK9 and Max Payne 3...sob.

MauroNL · Nov 3, 2020

AceParty said:
This. I feel the thread subject is a bit misleading as it's even about gamepass specifically and licensing.

Jason Ronald Inverse interview: BC testing took about 16-24 hours per title; had over 500 people testing; new 360/OG titles will be difficult

https://www.inverse.com/gaming/xbox-backward-compatibility-jason-ronald-interview?utm_campaign=inverse&utm_content=1604421942&utm_medium=owned&utm_source=twitter Had to cram the most interesting stuff in the title but here are some of the quotes in full.

www.resetera.com

Ecco45 · Nov 3, 2020

litebrite said:
The BC team have only given one example for increasing native resolution to 4k and one example for doubling the framerate on XSX and they've been both XB1 games: Gears Ultimate and Fallout 4, respectively.

My bad, I completely mistook Fallout 4 for a 360 game.

According to Polygon, the original Crackdown is running at 60fps on XSX, so we have 1 confirmed enhanced 360 game it seems.

Godzilla24 · Nov 3, 2020

Incredible job by the team.

Hexer · Nov 3, 2020

From Software and MS seem to have a good relationship, so why the hell is Otogi 1 & 2 not on BC yet? I'm hoping it's still coming. I don't see why that game would have any barriers, but I could be wrong. JSRF is always on ppls' list, but I can def see that having licensing issues out the wazoo with all that music and stuff. Still hoping for more OG Xbox games, that's really what I want the most. MS is unmatched with the way they've handled BC. So glad I went digital with them this gen. :)

jsnepo · Nov 3, 2020

GreenMonkey said:
PS1 emulation maybe. PS2 emulation isn't easy - Sony's own emulation-only solution on the PS3 was spotty. Open source PS2 emulation of some titles is still a mess (like Jack and Daxte, for example). Even in-house emulation of Jack & Daxter is still a mess in the PS3/PS4 editions.

Didn't the PS3's RSX has lower bandwidth than the PS2's GS? I thought that was the reason PS2 software emulation was tough to do on PS3. PS5 wouldn't have this problem right? Heck even PS4 shouldn't have this problem either.

litebrite · Nov 3, 2020

Hexer said:
From Software and MS seem to have a good relationship, so why the hell is Otogi 1 & 2 not on BC yet? I'm hoping it's still coming. I don't see why that game would have any barriers, but I could be wrong. JSRF is always on ppls' list, but I can def see that having licensing issues out the wazoo with all that music and stuff. Still hoping for more OG Xbox games, that's really what I want the most. MS is unmatched with the way they've handled BC. So glad I went digital with them this gen. :)

A game not made BC yet doesn't necessarily mean it has licensing/publishing or technical issues. It could simply be they haven't had the time to get around to it yet.

Hexer · Nov 3, 2020

litebrite said:
A game not made BC yet doesn't necessarily mean it has licensing/publishing or technical issues. It could simply be they haven't had the time to get around to it yet.

Yeah I know :). Just been wanting that for so long now and wanted to make sure I wasn't getting anything wrong in case someone here knew of some issue those games could possibly have.

litebrite · Nov 3, 2020

Hexer said:
Yeah I know :). Just been wanting that for so long now and wanted to make sure I wasn't getting anything wrong in case someone here knew of some issue those games could possibly have.

Yeah, I'm still waiting for the Xbox 360 MS published/From Software developed Ninja Blade made BC.

Hexer · Nov 3, 2020

litebrite said:
Yeah, I'm still waiting for the Xbox 360 MS published/From Software developed Ninja Blade made BC.

I'd like that as well. I remember that being pretty fun actually.

Deleted member 78123 · Nov 3, 2020

litebrite said:
In Sept., I made a list of all the 360/OG Xbox games that weren't BC but were still being sold on the Xbox Marketplace that are highly unlikely to have any licensing/publishing issues and are highly likely to be among the first batch of games made BC if/when the BC program officially continues adding more 360/OG Xbox games to BC.

Games still being sold digitally on Xbox (360) marketplace

These games appear to have the least issues regarding publishing and/or licensing and should the BC team continue adding more Xbox 360/OG Xbox games to BC are the likely initial candidates except for titles that can only be played using Kinect. I will note if the game is an XBLA or OG Xbox as...

www.resetera.com

Wow! I'm impressed! Thanks for doing it!

theAllseeingEYE · Nov 3, 2020

If there comes a point that Microsoft is simply getting blocked from adding more games to the service due to licensing, I'd love to see them simply open up the X360 and OG Xbox emulators to any and all disc titles. Please let me play PGR, Mechassault, and others if I own the discs MS, that would be awesome.

Golbez · Nov 3, 2020

litebrite said:
In Sept., I made a list of all the 360/OG Xbox games that weren't BC but were still being sold on the Xbox Marketplace that are highly unlikely to have any licensing/publishing issues and are highly likely to be among the first batch of games made BC if/when the BC program officially continues adding more 360/OG Xbox games to BC.

Games still being sold digitally on Xbox (360) marketplace

These games appear to have the least issues regarding publishing and/or licensing and should the BC team continue adding more Xbox 360/OG Xbox games to BC are the likely initial candidates except for titles that can only be played using Kinect. I will note if the game is an XBLA or OG Xbox as...

www.resetera.com

I wasn't expecting to see Burnout 3 and Crash Bandicoot: Wrath of Cortex in this list.

mrqs · Nov 3, 2020

I would love so much to be able to play Castlevania: Curse of Darkness again. Please Microsoft. Please.

litebrite · Nov 3, 2020

Golbez said:
I wasn't expecting to see Burnout 3 and Crash Bandicoot: Wrath of Cortex in this list.

it means there's hope. LOL

Ra · Nov 3, 2020

I said it before, but bless those souls. Had to be a serious grind burning away the hours testing games for BC.

infinityBCRT · Nov 3, 2020

The thread title is misleading in regards to "new 360/OG titles will be difficult". It makes it sound like there will be no new 360/OG titles. When you read what he said, it just sounds like what they've always been saying about adding new BC titles-- some titles have licensing issues.

SkoomaBlade · Nov 3, 2020

Fawz said:
Looking forward to trying out titles that still behaved terribly on XB1X like Fable 2

Oh no! Fable 2 also has issues?

I fired up Fable Anniversary on my X1X and the game had serious performance issues that were apparently brought on by some system update a while back. Ended up buying Anniversary on Steam and played it there instead. Been meaning to play Fable 2 after my Anniversary playthrough so this is a bummer to hear.

The Spoony Hou · Nov 3, 2020

The title is misleading. BC is as hard as it was before, unless he means they already did the easier games to license.

Rippa · Nov 3, 2020

There goes my hopes for Def Jam Vendetta Fight for NY.

xoxoclvbs · Nov 3, 2020

The Spoony Hou said:
The title is misleading. BC is as hard as it was before

I didn't realize it at first, but this.

Kneefoil · Nov 3, 2020

After they hit this wall and can't add more titles, the next step should be to implement Xbox BC to Windows PCs.

litebrite · Nov 3, 2020

Kneefoil said:
After they hit this wall and can't add more titles, the next step should be to implement Xbox BC to Windows PCs.

xCloud on PC will be the solution.

The Cellar Letters · Nov 3, 2020

I just want the Buffy games damn it. Work harder.

Golbez · Nov 3, 2020

litebrite said:
it means there's hope. LOL

Do you know if I can buy Burnout 3 on the 360 Marketplace from a computer? You know.. just so I can have it on my account in case a miracle happens lol

litebrite · Nov 3, 2020

Golbez said:
Do you know if I can buy Burnout 3 on the 360 Marketplace from a computer? You know.. just so I can have it on my account in case a miracle happens lol

Burnout 3: Takedown

marketplace.xbox.com

nib95 · Nov 3, 2020

That's an absolutely massive investment for BC. 500 testers, plus specific BC developers, over the span of four years. It wouldn't surprise me if the investment was the equivalent of 2-3 new AAA titles, or a dozen or more indie budget titles.

Mr. Lemming · Nov 3, 2020

I keep hoping for the old DOA games like 3, 4, and Ultimate. Tecmo end of lifed DOA6 so it's not like they'll be competing with themselves. Take out the Aerosmith opening if MS doesn't want to lay out the cash for the license.

Nardy_19 · Nov 3, 2020

So much for getting the OG Tennis games like Virtua Tennis and Top Spin......I mean it not like it's been a decade.

litebrite · Nov 3, 2020

Mr. Lemming said:
I keep hoping for the old DOA games like 3, 4, and Ultimate. Tecmo end of lifed DOA6 so it's not like they'll be competing with themselves. Take out the Aerosmith opening if MS doesn't want to lay out the cash for the license.

They devs unlikely can't take out any licensed material out of these old games running on what it thinks is OG Xbox/Xbox 360 hardware. Koei Tecmo likely could only do that is if they were porting the games to modern platforms.

Shpeshal Nick · Nov 3, 2020

CerealBro1 said:
There's no doubt that they will continue adding more OG games to the program, they haven't even brought forward their entire XGS catalog yet. Not to mention that publishers such as Activision and Ubisoft have been supporters of the program and have several OG Xbox games that shouldn't have licensing problems

There's a tonne of Sega stuff that should have no licensing issues like Sega Soccer Slam.

Jason Ronald Inverse interview: BC testing took about 16-24 hours per title; had over 500 people testing; new 360/OG titles will be difficult

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