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Japan's analog government struggles to accept anything online
- Thread starter DonMigs85
- Start date
We were so lucky at our company (being an international across Japan) that we started the Teams transfer in January, before Covid.
I don't even want to think what would have happen otherwise
I make businesses with some large-ish Japanese companies.
They require constant communication of transfers and other documentation through fax. From banking to certificates and addresses.
As a result, I own a fax machine in the year of our Lord 2020.
A fax machine. So I can send them the same shit I share with others through fucking WhatsApp.
It even has a cute Japanese sticker I put on for fun.
They require constant communication of transfers and other documentation through fax. From banking to certificates and addresses.
As a result, I own a fax machine in the year of our Lord 2020.
A fax machine. So I can send them the same shit I share with others through fucking WhatsApp.
It even has a cute Japanese sticker I put on for fun.
Eh, there is usually a workaround. In a total of about 8 years in Japan I have never needed one (but I also specifically chose a foreigner-friendly bank and so on)
The reliance on cash isn't really a thing anymore. Especially after they raised the sales tax recently and added special rebates for cashless transactions. Now just about any shop accepts Apple Pay and the like. I often go 1-2 months without having to touch the ATM.
In fairness, signatures are a totally weird way to verify an identity. The only reason they're accepted anywhere is tradition and (usually) the lack of any convenient alternative. If signatures hadn't ever become a commonplace way to denote agreement, and someone seriously proposed starting to use them, we'd think they'd gone mad.
Not to say Japan's system is any better though.
I wonder if that was part of the problem. One of the reasons why wireless networks took off in North America and Europe was that most households had a several connectable devices (usually one or more per person by the time wireless was commercially available) and fairly slow connection speeds (so moving to wireless wasn't a bottleneck), and also no mobile data plan (or a shit one).
In Japan back in the mid-2000s, there were a lot more single-person households than in NA/Europe, PC ownership was a lot less common, fixed-line internet speeds were good (so more likely to be bottlenecked by wireless) and mobile data plans were relatively common.
Wireless take-up may have been severely hampered by those obstacles.
Yeah, the businesses that jumped into comms tech early tend to now have ancient stuff that they're struggling to retire. There's still countries where hospitals use pagers (and Japan only turned off its pager signals last year). Car manufacturers and banks tend to also have 1970s stuff that they need to keep running (lots of old business critical mainframe systems out there, though most are now virtualised).
Slightly off topic, but I was also surprised that despite a great subway and train network and bars that open until 4/5 am in Tokyo, you're lucky to get a train much past midnight.
I used to work at a large Japanese investment bank. While it was one of the best places I worked, they followed the Waterfall project management method down to its nuts and bolts. We had to get all our functional requirements and budget approved by the head office (Tokyo), and down the line, even if there was a mismatch of 50 cents....it caused a lot of bureaucratic issues and required insane amount of Change Management.
It really is strange having super advanced and/or convenient toilets, trains, convenience stores, etc while also not being able to use credit cards everywhere, access ATMs at night or sign something electronically. I love it here but some things are just ridiculously behind the times.
Honestly I think a large part of it is that the people in charge in thegovernment and big companies are all old as fuck, stubborn, and out of touch.
Honestly I think a large part of it is that the people in charge in thegovernment and big companies are all old as fuck, stubborn, and out of touch.
I worked as an ALT (Assistant Language Teacher) in Japan and had to have my principal put their Hanko stamp on a form and have it faxed to my company to get paid for the month.
My company wouldn't pay me because they couldn't read the fax correctly so I had to go fucking back to that school, have him restamp it, then fucking fax it again.
My company wouldn't pay me because they couldn't read the fax correctly so I had to go fucking back to that school, have him restamp it, then fucking fax it again.
I'm actually fairly satisfied with where Japan is in terms of its use of technology for payments and bureaucratic matters. The government recently announced a stimulus package of ¥100,000 per person, and I was able to do the entirety of the registration on a phone app. The most remarkable thing about the process was that I had to use my iPhone's NFC tech as a card reader for my (Japanese equivalent of a) social security card. I had my money in 10 days.
On payments, a very large number of shops in Tokyo and other large cities now accept a multitude of digital payments, not just credit cards. Many are smartphone compatible and work with barcodes or NFC. Some small privately owned businesses still accept cash only due to the cutthroat margins they operate on, but these are certainly a minority now. (Not sure about the countryside)
There is still a long way to go but I think Japan will get there eventually.
On payments, a very large number of shops in Tokyo and other large cities now accept a multitude of digital payments, not just credit cards. Many are smartphone compatible and work with barcodes or NFC. Some small privately owned businesses still accept cash only due to the cutthroat margins they operate on, but these are certainly a minority now. (Not sure about the countryside)
There is still a long way to go but I think Japan will get there eventually.
This is crazy reading all of this. I went to Japan in 2017 and 2018 for 30 days a piece and didn't see any of this. I went as far south as Itoshima too. My Wi-Fi hotspot worked and generally I went to the Konbini to get cash. Although it was a vacation, but none of my friends mentioned this.
My company expanded into Japan last year and I can confirm they are. The amount of banking stuff that requires paper forms - or even worse, in person requests at a branch - are staggering.
Ohhh man. My pockets have never been more jingly than when I was in Japan.
Lol yeah, those fucking coins. When I first came to Japan, I used my credit card as much as I could just because I really hated taking the time to count my coins. Hated them so much, I threw away all my coins in the US except quarters. I eventually got used to using coins, but I still hate paying using my coins.
Where are you catching taxis? I catch them regularly and pay with my company card. Of the hundreds of taxi journeys I have taken in Tokyo I am yet to find one which only accepts cash.
Never understood the complaint about coins.
You should never have more than one ¥500, four ¥100, four ¥1, one ¥5 and one ¥50 coin on your person at any given time. The coins are denominated so you can receive the most efficient change possible. (i.e. giving ¥1104 for a ¥1099 transaction so you get a ¥5 coin back while offloading four ¥1 coins)
You should never have more than one ¥500, four ¥100, four ¥1, one ¥5 and one ¥50 coin on your person at any given time. The coins are denominated so you can receive the most efficient change possible. (i.e. giving ¥1104 for a ¥1099 transaction so you get a ¥5 coin back while offloading four ¥1 coins)
The MyNumber payment method was pretty neat.
Unless you are visiting higher end/foreigner friendly/chains, the majority of local bars and restaurants in Tokyo do not accept payment methods other than cash. Once you get outside of the city, almost all locally owned businesses accept cash only.
That said, things are changing. I usually try to use credit card or digital payment methods in restaurants and am finding rejection less frequent these days. But more than a few minutes' walk from a station it is still much the same.
Interesting. Thanks for the insight.
I think the area I live in (Ebisu) skews my perception quite a bit, lol
Sorry but thats a myth, trains and subways in major cities (Tokyo) are really efficient. But all other public transportation certainly isnt, especially in the countryside. The bus service where I live is absolutely abysmal, its expensive, always late (or doesnt even turn up), the schedule is usually one bus an hour and they end the service at around 9pm, so if you finish work late you have no choice but to walk or pay out for a taxi. Thats why a car is pretty much essential outside of Tokyo.
It's really ridiculous it's almost comical. It is interesting how Korea passed Japan tech vise. Well I guess it kinda makes sense, Korea is the tech country of 00s like Japan was 70s-90s.
I have to wonder if Japan's obsession with faxing documents is the reason why Brother, being a Japanese brand and all that, has the multifunction printer cum fax market so cornered.
I was there last August and only the new taxis accept credit. I have read that for the olympics they were updating, that must have occurred.
People would never leave the office if there wasn't a last train they had to catch.
I've been living in Tokyo for close to 5 years, have always paid for taxis with either card (physical or via app) or Pasmo when I'm running late.
So many places being cash only was one of my biggest gripes when moving here, but as others have said it's gotten a lot better. Over the past year, quite a few of our local bakeries have started accepting cards, which was unthinkable just a couple years ago (small businesses and low transaction amounts).
His Japanese is so, so good...
Ebisu is my favorite area to stay when visiting Tokyo. I'd love to live a season of life there one day. I'd love to hear more about the specific area you live in, and what your apartment and commute are like if you're bored. DM is always welcome.
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Ah, yes, the quarterly "lets make broad generalities about Japan" thread.
I've lived in Japan a very long time and only ever had to pay cash to a taxi once when I had to ride one in the countryside. I'm not sure what taxis you've been getting in Tokyo that don't accept cards.
Coins became a big issue when they increased the consumption tax to 8% and basically created lots and lots of spare change but Japan has been very aggressive in trying to move people over to cashless payment options. Its very slow because of all the old people but most young people use cashless nowadays.
I've lived in Japan a very long time and only ever had to pay cash to a taxi once when I had to ride one in the countryside. I'm not sure what taxis you've been getting in Tokyo that don't accept cards.
Coins became a big issue when they increased the consumption tax to 8% and basically created lots and lots of spare change but Japan has been very aggressive in trying to move people over to cashless payment options. Its very slow because of all the old people but most young people use cashless nowadays.
Why though? They're automated so why not run them at all times?
Originally I believe it was so that small banks couldn't be outcompeted in service availability by large banks. Like a small bank that couldn't afford an ATM network. Now? I don't know.
The ATMs closing hasn't been a thing in a while. 7-11 ATMs are open 24/7. Some banks do close during Golden Week for example but if you use some of the new internet banks (7-Bank, Rakuten, SBI) they're all very modern now.
The reason for ATMs closing is because some banks run on really old systems that need to run batch jobs at night (to balance their books) so they need a period where no transactions are being made. Most banks have upgraded their systems so this mostly doesn't apply anymore except for the odd day or two.
The reason for ATMs closing is because some banks run on really old systems that need to run batch jobs at night (to balance their books) so they need a period where no transactions are being made. Most banks have upgraded their systems so this mostly doesn't apply anymore except for the odd day or two.
Speaking of their fax obsession, I read some story about how a corp was very insistent on having different colour covers for different types of documents. And was very specific about the exact colours.
Of course it all turned to grayscale from being faxed, but apparently that didn't matter to them.
Of course it all turned to grayscale from being faxed, but apparently that didn't matter to them.
In comparison to most other countries, it's still really, really efficient. Tokyo and big cities is a given ofcourse.
The fact that almost all regions of Japan are connected with the bullet-train is something no other country has. Sure, countryside is a lot less, but that's kinda normal, no? The population is low and what you described is still miles better then the average in the countryside anywhere in Europe.
(Where I grew up there were 3 busses a day, last one around 6 PM).
thats true about there being 24/7 atms but there are some banks where you still cant access your account even if your using the atm at a seven eleven. Sumitomo bank for example will say that the service is unavailable If you try withdrawing/depositing after midnight, no matter what ATM you use
I remember being pissed at Docomo for charging me extra money just to activate the Wifi from my router.
I still can't believe that's a thing on top of paying an extra fee every month to "rent" the router from them.
I mean, I had wifi art home but its so slow I had to ask for mobile Wi-Fi. If I had to pay for my Wi-Fi (luckily its inclusive with the apartment) I would be pissed. Took me THREE DAYS to download Gears 5
I live about 5 minutes away from the station, between Ebisu Garden Place and Meiji-dori (toward Hiroo). It's a pricey, but breathtaking neighborhood to live in. The location is very convenient without the baggage of becoming a major train hub like Shibuya next door; the fact the Shonan Shinjuku Line and Saikyo Line stop here mean I can get to far flung areas in other prefectures without changing trains. The amount of international restaurants never ceases to amaze me: French cuisine, Singaporean chicken rice, Bahn Mi, Thai Iced Tea, Mexican, Lawry's Prime Rib, Shake Shack, Din Tai Fung, Sarutahiko Coffee, Blue Bottle Coffee, etc. There's so much to do that I rarely have to leave the neighborhood unless I have shopping to do in Shibuya or perhaps Shinjuku.
I guess the main takeaway is that Ebisu is great as someone like me who loves international environments. It's hard for me to get homesick when I live n Ebisu.
In my case they took a whole week to activate it and 1000 extra yen per month for the privilege of having Wifi in my router.
It also came in a box by mail so you have to install and configure the router yourself.
Back then when I lived in Peru, a third world country, the router came free when you get the internet service and of course the wifi was included. They also sent a technician to install it for you and was almost half the price of what I pay monthly.
And this was back then in like 2009.
LAWRYS PRIME RIB
Hell yeah, I love that place lol
EBisu is also full of some the best cocktail bars in Japan,
If you haven't already please check out Trench or Tram
China's getting close, and their landmass is multiple times bigger.
This link tells me its open almost 24/7 except with intra-bank charges:
セブン銀行ATM ： 三井住友銀行
三井住友銀行の店舗やATMに関する情報を紹介しています。店番号やATMの営業時間、所在地が確認できるだけでなく、土曜日営業店、店舗の統合情報なども紹介しています。
The only downtime for SMBC is on Sundays 21:00-07:30 so it seems like you've only ever attempted to withdraw on Sundays.