Japan - Why is sexualization of minors (fictional/non-fictional) in media so prevalent?

[Tavernade]

I've noticed personally (no idea of this is true wholesale) but it seems that this is a bit of a niche?

It seems to come up a lot in things aimed towards otaku or nerds, things that are already sexualised, etc. It doesn't really show up all that much in 'standard' fare.

I've seen a TON of Japanese movies the past few years (Letterboxd says about 120 since 2018?) and it's something I've seen fairly common in anime, horror, and sexploitation genres... but I haven't seen a lot of it in standard dramas or comedies. Even some pink-film-adjacent cinema I've watched that is fine with plenty of nudity hasn't (as far as I remember) included sexualisation of children.

My 'point' I guess is that while, to me, it seems like they don't have as big a problem with it as we do, it's also not normalised.

This might be a bad example, but it's like drugs in the west. In Japan it's a total no-no with no wiggle room. In the west if someone smells like pot or wears a drug symbol on their shirt or something, they're judged but no one is going to call the cops on them. Obviously not a 1:1 comparison, just in the west I'd argue drugs are 'tolerated but not mainstream,' and this child sexualisation in Japan is also 'tolerated but not mainstream.'

 

[L Thammy]

One thing that I always find disturbing but I don't think is so often acknowledge is how much hentai there is that is just misogyny. I don't mean that it's misogynistic, I mean that it's misogyny and there's nothing else, like there might not even be sex involved, just women being injured or killed.

Like, I'm looking for a video of the fatalities in Samurai Shodown V because I'm having a conversation with a friend about a related subject, and I end up with a YouTube video that's specifically fatalities being done on Nakaruru. I'm wondering why they'd specify that it's on Nakaruru, if there's a backlash against her popularity or something, until I remember that the "Ryona" in the title of the video isn't a character's name but is describing this as a fetish video.

 

[siteseer]

this is why i don't watch anime anymore. 80s and 90s ultra violence and fan service dealt more with adults as i remember it. but mid 90s, i think, and after had a major shift in style and plot that completely lost me as a viewer (not that i was so deep into it anyway). even evangelion were at times borderline creepy.

 

[Muu]

I think it boils down to women's rights just not having caught up in Japan, and unfortunately a lot of it is baked into the society as a whole which means we're still a long ways away from meaningful change.

Work norms just doesn't work well for women. Despite government intervention to reduce overwork, you'll still see 定時退社 (leave work at regular end of workday) flung around as some sort of unicorn -- people just aren't able to leave at regular hours in most office jobs, and that's the norm. This means that women are, in general, forced to leave the workplace when they plan on having children. Nevermind the known crisis in lack of child care (look up 待機児童問題 - problems w/ children awaiting placement for care), even if you somehow got care from 8-5 you'll have reduced job responsibilities and therefore less ways of climbing the corporate ladder because you're not able to fit in to the general mould of workers.

There's no way this doesn't trickle down through every facet of everything. You end up with a male dominated workplace, decision makers being more heavily male, and likely with less opportunity themselves to interact in a family setting themselves.

That said, we see so much of this stuff from Japan because semi-mainstream markets were developed for them, and then niche markets were allowed to exist as well.

I've noticed personally (no idea of this is true wholesale) but it seems that this is a bit of a niche?

It seems to come up a lot in things aimed towards otaku or nerds, things that are already sexualised, etc. It doesn't really show up all that much in 'standard' fare.

I've seen a TON of Japanese movies the past few years (Letterboxd says about 120 since 2018?) and it's something I've seen fairly common in anime, horror, and sexploitation genres... but I haven't seen a lot of it in standard dramas or comedies. Even some pink-film-adjacent cinema I've watched that is fine with plenty of nudity hasn't (as far as I remember) included sexualisation of children.

My 'point' I guess is that while, to me, it seems like they don't have as big a problem with it as we do, it's also not normalised.

This might be a bad example, but it's like drugs in the west. In Japan it's a total no-no with no wiggle room. In the west if someone smells like pot or wears a drug symbol on their shirt or something, they're judged but no one is going to call the cops on them. Obviously not a 1:1 comparison, just in the west I'd argue drugs are 'tolerated but not mainstream,' and this child sexualisation in Japan is also 'tolerated but not mainstream.'

Click to shrink...

Better example would be violence as a whole. AAA games as a whole struggled in Japan last gen because the ultraviolence forced many of them to be labeled CERO Z, which is the NC17 equivalent. Of course, this leads to the inevitable circular argument where the west criticizes Japan's sexualization and Japan criticizes the west's ultraviolence...

 

[Tavernade]

this is why i don't watch anime anymore. 80s and 90s ultra violence and fan service dealt more with adults as i remember it. but mid 90s, i think, and after had a major shift in style and plot that completely lost me as a viewer (not that i was so deep into it anyway). even evangelion were at times borderline creepy.

Click to shrink...

Evangelion is really weird about it because they lean into the under age fan service a lot but simultaneously deconstruct it and I sometimes struggle to reconcile the two.

My original impression was people just didn't understand the deconstruction, but with so much continued sexualised merchandising I can't tell if they're just leaning in or it was the intent all along or what.

It doesn't help that cartoons regardless of origin have a hard time showing in film that someone is 14 versus 18. Like, I think Jasmine, Ariel, and Belle are all supposed to be the same age as Asuka and Rei. I always thought the former group were much older until the past few years.

 

[Ashlette]

It feels like most children in anime do not act their age at all.

And I find it creepy when they talk about pedophilia/child molesters like if that is a normal thing for a child to discuss.

 

[HotHamBoy]

Bruh..

I know who that character is and what anime she's from...

You know exactly why this thread happens. Your Avatar is one of the reasons.

Click to shrink...

Now i wanna know who it is and where they are from.
Not specifically, just give me the general idea

 

[HyperDimension]

Seven Deadly Sins is one of those shows that has a bunch of cool stuff I like but then just has some super questionable stuff in it that makes it impossible for me to recommend to anyone who isn't already deep into the anime scene and is desensitized to it. A couple of my friends who watched it on Netflix told me how they stopped watching because of Meliodas sexually assaulting Elizabeth and I can't blame them. He ruins the show for me personally - I don't know how they thought giving him this kind of trait would make him likable. There's also the whole thing with Ban's girlfriend looking like a child. There really wasn't a reason they had to do it that way but they did.

Click to shrink...

I found Seven Deadly Sins to be an overrated show. I just couldn't get into it. But I forced myself to watch the whole season only because a friend really likes it.

I just didn't like Meliodas much as a protagonist. Not only for Meliodas sexual assaulting/harassing Elizabeth, but also the fact that he looks like a little boy doing sexual things with a much older female, bordering on shotacon bait (even if Meliodas is technically centuries old). And of course there's the lolicon bait with Ban and Elaine (even if Elaine is technically centuries old).

 

[FriskyCanuck]

Now i wanna know who it is and where they are from.
Not specifically, just give me the general idea

Click to shrink...

1000 year old dragon.

 

[Kurtikeya]

Evangelion is really weird about it because they lean into the under age fan service a lot but simultaneously deconstruct it and I sometimes struggle to reconcile the two.

My original impression was people just didn't understand the deconstruction, but with so much continued sexualised merchandising I can't tell if they're just leaning in or it was the intent all along or what.

It doesn't help that cartoons regardless of origin have a hard time showing in film that someone is 14 versus 18. Like, I think Jasmine, Ariel, and Belle are all supposed to be the same age as Asuka and Rei. I always thought the former group were much older until the past few years.

Click to shrink...

Evangelion is a shining example because it embodies the two dominant stances on the issue and how it's rooted in Japan's postwar trauma. The underage fanservice is both a depiction of how the nation yearns for safety and prewar innocence and therefore sought to rehabilitate itself through playfulness and cuteness, but also a demonstration of how this materially-wealthy nation has been infantilised because of its trauma, and so often resorts to base and counterintuitive expressions of its postwar fantasies and anxieties. Like, the impulse to sexualise is more appealing than the need to deconstruct so as to confront, and it's because of the infantilisation of the Japanese mindset.

As to why it doesn't seem to show up in "standard" fare, I'd wager it's because it's regarded as kitschy, trashy art in comparison (like how, in roughly the same time period, detective novels were the little brother to high modernism in the West). Leading artist Takashi Murakami sought to investigate this in the Little Boy exhibition, which is about the disposable Japanese consumer culture that is predicated on cartoon imagery and kawaii sensibilities, and how it's all indicative of the nation's modern conflicts. More info here:

Little Boy: The Arts of Japan's Exploding Subculture: Events In-Depth: Multimedia: Japan Society

The Japan Society in collaboration with the Public Art Fund presented <em>Little Boy</em>, a major exhibition at the Japan Society Gallery and an installation of artworks in New York City’s public spaces and mass transit system in Spring 2005.

www.japansociety.org

 

[HotHamBoy]

1000 year old dragon.

Click to shrink...

Grooooooossss

 

[FriskyCanuck]

Grooooooossss

Click to shrink...

It is a shame, the anime is quite heartwarming (from KyoAni no less) but they put a scene involving a game of Twister that really puts people off.

 

[Siggy-P]

1000 year old dragon.

Click to shrink...

How do I delete video clips from my short term memory?

 

[Deleted member 33533]

I found Seven Deadly Sins to be an overrated show. I just couldn't get into it. But I forced myself to watch the whole season only because a friend really likes it.

I just didn't like Meliodas much as a protagonist. Not only for Meliodas sexual assaulting/harassing Elizabeth, but also the fact that he looks like a little boy doing sexual things with a much older female, bordering on shotacon bait (even if Meliodas is technically centuries old). And of course there's the lolicon bait with Ban and Elaine (even if Elaine is technically centuries old).

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I also dislike Meliodas which is a problem when he's the main character thus gets most of the focus. I actually find all the other Sins to be more interesting than him and I'd just find him boring if not for his pervertedness towards Elizabeth which just makes me flat out dislike him. He especially becomes bland as hell later on when there's a shift in his character for spoiler reasons.

I never really thought about how Meliodas being child-like himself might play into the way they frame his sexual harassing. I wonder if it's supposed to play into the playful, innocence side that you expect from a kid to make his groping and prodding of Elizabeth seem more ok than it actually is. Because even though it's already off putting to me, if Meliodas was as big as Ban, for example, he'd probably look even worse. The perverted anime character is nothing new of course but there is definitely something different about the way they portray Meliodas. No one really seems to have that much of a problem with it except Hawk who is never taken seriously. It seems like it's meant to be played for laughs but Elizabeth's adoration of Meliodas causes her to have a very passive reaction that makes it feel far creepier than your usual case of the female character punching the pervert into the stratosphere for laughs.

 

[Ashlette]

1000 year old dragon.

Click to shrink...

This is about as bad as this other girl, who has a bar code tattooed to her butt for some reason.

 

[SteelBeast6Beets]

Evangelion is a shining example because it embodies the two dominant stances on the issue and how it's rooted in Japan's postwar trauma. The underage fanservice is both a depiction of how the nation yearns for safety and prewar innocence and therefore sought to rehabilitate itself through playfulness and cuteness, but also a demonstration of how this materially-wealthy nation has been infantilised because of its trauma, and so often resorts to base and counterintuitive expressions of its postwar fantasies and anxieties. Like, the impulse to sexualise is more appealing than the need to deconstruct so as to confront, and it's because of the infantilisation of the Japanese mindset.

As to why it doesn't seem to show up in "standard" fare, I'd wager it's because it's regarded as kitschy, trashy art in comparison (like how, in roughly the same time period, detective novels were the little brother to high modernism in the West). Leading artist Takashi Murakami sought to investigate this in the Little Boy exhibition, which is about the disposable Japanese consumer culture that is predicated on cartoon imagery and kawaii sensibilities, and how it's all indicative of the nation's modern conflicts. More info here:

Click to shrink...

Keep in mind that EVA's Anno originally blamed America for Japan's current state.

Anno understands the Japanese national attraction to characters like Rei as the product of a stunted imaginative landscape born of Japan's defeat in the Second World War. "Japan lost the war to the Americans," he explains, seeming interested in his own words for the first time during our interview. "Since that time, the education we received is not one that creates adults. Even for us, people in their 40s, and for the generation older than me, in their 50s and 60s, there's no reasonable model of what an adult should be like." The theory that Japan's defeat stripped the country of its independence and led to the creation of a nation of permanent children, weaklings forced to live under the protection of the American Big Daddy, is widely shared by artists and intellectuals in Japan. It is also a staple of popular cartoons, many of which feature a well-meaning government that turns out to be a facade concealing sinister and more powerful forces.

Anno pauses for a moment, and gives a dark-browed stare out the window. "I don't see any adults here in Japan," he says, with a shrug. "The fact that you see salarymen reading manga and pornography on the trains and being unafraid, unashamed or anything, is something you wouldn't have seen 30 years ago, with people who grew up under a different system of government. They would have been far too embarrassed to open a book of cartoons or dirty pictures on a train. But that's what we have now in Japan. We are a country of children."

Click to shrink...

Let’s Die Together

Why is anonymous group suicide so popular in Japan?

www.theatlantic.com

 

[Motorcycle Dork]

In regards to the issue, I think 2020 onwards there will be a radical shift and social change in East Asia (and very likely rest of the conservative world too).

It will happen naturally as the younger gens have shown to be very vocal about it.

 

[Silvergun-Blue]

Seven Deadly Sins is one of those shows that has a bunch of cool stuff I like but then just has some super questionable stuff in it that makes it impossible for me to recommend to anyone who isn't already deep into the anime scene and is desensitized to it. A couple of my friends who watched it on Netflix told me how they stopped watching because of Meliodas sexually assaulting Elizabeth and I can't blame them. He ruins the show for me personally - I don't know how they thought giving him this kind of trait would make him likable. There's also the whole thing with Ban's girlfriend looking like a child. There really wasn't a reason they had to do it that way but they did.

Click to shrink...

I'd seen a few scenes from it and thought it looked pretty neat. Fired up the first episode and I was cringing in no time and couldn't watch any more.
It's like there's a checklist somewhere of tropes that absolutely must be in anime.

 

[SteelBeast6Beets]

In regards to the issue, I think 2020 onwards there will be a radical shift and social change in East Asia (and very likely rest of the conservative world too).

It will happen naturally as the younger gens have shown to be very vocal about it.

Click to shrink...

Aren't Japanese youths completely apathetic towards politics in general?

 

[Nightbird]

Yeah, I also dislike Meliodas which is a problem when he's the main character thus gets most of the focus. I actually find all the other Sins to be more interesting than him and I'd just find him boring if not for his pervertedness towards Elizabeth which just makes me flat out dislike him. He especially becomes bland as hell later on when there's a shift in his character for spoiler reasons.

I never really thought about how Meliodas being child-like himself might play into the way they frame his sexual harassing. I wonder if it's supposed to play into the playful, innocence side that you expect from a kid to make his groping and prodding of Elizabeth seem more ok than it actually is. Because even though it's already off putting to me, if Meliodas was as big as Ban, for example, he'd probably look even worse. The perverted anime character is nothing new of course but there is definitely something different about the way they portray Meliodas. No one really seems to have that much of a problem with it except Hawk who is never taken seriously. It seems like it's meant to be played for laughs but Elizabeth's adoration of Meliodas causes her to have a very passive reaction that makes it feel far creepier than your usual case of the female character punching the pervert into the stratosphere for laughs.

Click to shrink...

Adding to your last point: Elizabeth is clearly not into it when Meliodas first started with that behavior (hell her dislike of it was even used in battle in one of the earlier episodes)

Making that behavior a whole lot more problematic

 

[Motorcycle Dork]

Aren't Japanese youths completely apathetic towards politics in general?

Click to shrink...

Mainly referring to younger Gen Z and Alpha. Oversea students have taken action already to some of the issues listed.

We live in a globalised society, this will become abnormal to them. It may not happen now but it will in the future.

Also I don't want to single out Japan, S.Korea has a similar problem in the idol industry.

 

[SteelBeast6Beets]

Mainly referring to younger Gen Z and Alpha. Oversea students have taken action already to some of the issues listed.

We live in a globalised society, this will become abnormal to them.

Click to shrink...

That's much is true, yeah.

 

[Deleted member 33533]

Adding to your last point: Elizabeth is clearly not into it when Meliodas first started with that behavior (hell her dislike of it was even used in battle in one of the earlier episodes)

Making that behavior a whole lot more problematic

Click to shrink...

Yeah, Elizabeth clearly holds Meliodas in high regard and she has a gentle personality to begin with so it honestly feels like Meliodas is taking advantage of that because even though she clearly doesn't like it, she'll tolerate it no matter what he does. I mean, Meliodas was an adult figure in her life when she was a child despite his looks. It really puts a dark spin on it and while I'm sure the mangaka never intended to have Meliodas perceived that way, it comes off like that anyway.

 

[Kace]

Elizabeth has no idea about any of that at the start, neither do we. So Meliodas is just groping her and sexually harassing her on a regular basis against her will. Every time he does it, it's played off as this silly, innocent thing he does but I just find it really off-putting. Even if Elizabeth was fully aware and wanted him to do that to her, it's still distracting when it happens. It's always so out of place and it's never funny. They could remove all those instances and nothing of value would be lost. It just feels like a fanservice quota being filled.

As for Ban and Elaine, sure she's a fairy but that doesn't mean she has to look like a child. There are plenty of ways to depict a fairy without doing that. I wouldn't really mind if she looked like a child if she didn't also have a romantic relationship with Ban who looks like an adult. As an artist creating this stuff, you really have to think about how that stuff looks even if you can explain it away with lore but obviously it's not a big deal in Japan so there was no need to think of it.

To be honest, the show sucks whenever it tries to do romance. It should just be the Escanor show. That's what we're all here for lol

Click to shrink...

That last part I'm with you 100% aside from like the first 5 or so episodes I tuned out on Sins except for when Escanor is doing important Escanor business

Spoiler

Which is why I can never forgive merlin who was best girl up till I realized she never really cared for Escanor till he was just about to die, her mouth scars don't make up for it

 

[Joe2187]

Grooooooossss

Click to shrink...

Thats just her introduction....

It gets....MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH....MUCH MUCH....MUCH worse

And then there's the character Lucoa

Who has a relationship with an underage boy....

A boy named SHOUTA...

 

[Lady Bow]

Feels like this exact same thread pops up every few weeks.

Click to shrink...

Didn't you get banned before for "it's not pedophilia, it's ephebophilia" ?

 

[Tavernade]

Evangelion is a shining example because it embodies the two dominant stances on the issue and how it's rooted in Japan's postwar trauma. The underage fanservice is both a depiction of how the nation yearns for safety and prewar innocence and therefore sought to rehabilitate itself through playfulness and cuteness, but also a demonstration of how this materially-wealthy nation has been infantilised because of its trauma, and so often resorts to base and counterintuitive expressions of its postwar fantasies and anxieties. Like, the impulse to sexualise is more appealing than the need to deconstruct so as to confront, and it's because of the infantilisation of the Japanese mindset.

As to why it doesn't seem to show up in "standard" fare, I'd wager it's because it's regarded as kitschy, trashy art in comparison (like how, in roughly the same time period, detective novels were the little brother to high modernism in the West). Leading artist Takashi Murakami sought to investigate this in the Little Boy exhibition, which is about the disposable Japanese consumer culture that is predicated on cartoon imagery and kawaii sensibilities, and how it's all indicative of the nation's modern conflicts. More info here:

Little Boy: The Arts of Japan's Exploding Subculture: Events In-Depth: Multimedia: Japan Society

The Japan Society in collaboration with the Public Art Fund presented <em>Little Boy</em>, a major exhibition at the Japan Society Gallery and an installation of artworks in New York City’s public spaces and mass transit system in Spring 2005.

www.japansociety.org

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You put it far better than I could (or understood), thank you! Going to read that linked article.

 

[mael]

It should just be the Escanor show. That's what we're all here for lol

Click to shrink...

This is the goddamn truth!
Praise the Sun and all that.

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

you think the West doesn't sexualize teenagers? Have you seen all these teen shows on CW? How about Euphoria on HBO

Click to shrink...

Didn't take long for the tu quoque. Stay focused, now.

 

[PlatStrat]

This thread got me thinking about something that I really have a hard time grasping. How do people justify drawing porn of younger fictional characters, especially characters whose age is never explicitly said or given? The most common argument I've seen for it is the artist states that the characters portrayed in their drawing are all legal/18+ but that can really cause a grey area if that's where we draw the line. It's easy to give some leeway with characters who are not human like Sonic and MLP (and even in those cases some things are questionable) but not for human characters. Like if someone drew porn of Maggie Simpson or Stewie Griffin but said they were 18 in the art, yet their original cartoon design remained the same, would that still be considered child porn?

And then it gets more weird when you throw the way that humans are drawn in anime/manga with exaggerated face and body features. In cases where it involves real people it's more cut and dry but in terms of fictional characters that either are or aren't owned by the artist I really don't know how to feel about it. And then you get into things like Big Mouth where all the characters are voiced by and talk like adults but are still kids in middle/high school involving themselves in sexual situations and in some cases even nudity. But child nudity by itself isn't sexual like when South Park occasionally show Cartman's penis or in the Simpson's movie they showed his penis for a brief second.

My point is how do we accurately ban child porn when it comes to this kind of stuff? I understand it's impossible to get rid of all of it but how do we properly enforce or regulate it?

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

This thread got me thinking about something that I really have a hard time grasping. How do people justify drawing porn of younger fictional characters, especially characters whose age is never explicitly said or given? The most common argument I've seen for it is the artist states that the characters portrayed in their drawing are all legal/18+ but that can really cause a grey area if that's where we draw the line. It's easy to give some leeway with characters who are not human like Sonic and MLP (and even in those cases some things are questionable) but not for human characters. Like if someone drew porn of Maggie Simpson or Stewie Griffin but said they were 18 in the art, yet their original cartoon design remained the same, would that still be considered child porn?

And then it gets more weird when you throw the way that humans are drawn in anime/manga with exaggerated face and body features. In cases where it involves real people it's more cut and dry but in terms of fictional characters that either are or aren't owned by the artist I really don't know how to feel about it. And then you get into things like Big Mouth where all the characters are voiced by and talk like adults but are still kids in middle/high school involving themselves in sexual situations and in some cases even nudity. But child nudity by itself isn't sexual like when South Park occasionally show Cartman's penis or in the Simpson's movie they showed his penis for a brief second.

My point is how do we accurately ban child porn when it comes to this kind of stuff? I understand it's impossible to get rid of all of it but how do we properly enforce or regulate it?

Click to shrink...

The numerical excuse was always bullshit if the artist is undeniably using anatomy and characterization that's designed specifically to pander to specific people.
"um actually they're 1000 yrs old in human yrs" isn't going to mean much of anything when discerning the actual content.

 

[Khanimus]

you think the West doesn't sexualize teenagers? Have you seen all these teen shows on CW? How about Euphoria on HBO

Click to shrink...

Teen shows that predominantly star actors in their early 20's?

 

[FriskyCanuck]

This just reminded me of a recently released anime about a pedophile who grooms her younger sister's classmate. And it's played for laughs.

WATATEN!: an Angel Flew Down to Me - Episode 1 - Anime Feminist

“Lesbian pedophiles” has only barely become an established subgenre, and I’m already running out of energy for this shit.

www.animefeminist.com

 

[Ashlette]

This thread got me thinking about something that I really have a hard time grasping. How do people justify drawing porn of younger fictional characters, especially characters whose age is never explicitly said or given? The most common argument I've seen for it is the artist states that the characters portrayed in their drawing are all legal/18+ but that can really cause a grey area if that's where we draw the line. It's easy to give some leeway with characters who are not human like Sonic and MLP (and even in those cases some things are questionable) but not for human characters. Like if someone drew porn of Maggie Simpson or Stewie Griffin but said they were 18 in the art, yet their original cartoon design remained the same, would that still be considered child porn?

And then it gets more weird when you throw the way that humans are drawn in anime/manga with exaggerated face and body features. In cases where it involves real people it's more cut and dry but in terms of fictional characters that either are or aren't owned by the artist I really don't know how to feel about it. And then you get into things like Big Mouth where all the characters are voiced by and talk like adults but are still kids in middle/high school involving themselves in sexual situations and in some cases even nudity. But child nudity by itself isn't sexual like when South Park occasionally show Cartman's penis or in the Simpson's movie they showed his penis for a brief second.

My point is how do we accurately ban child porn when it comes to this kind of stuff? I understand it's impossible to get rid of all of it but how do we properly enforce or regulate it?

Click to shrink...

They could state that their characters are 8 years old. Yet someone would still defend their shit.

And your example is about US cartoons, while this topic is about Japanese cartoons. It's best to save that discussion for another thread.

 

[Catshade]

This thread reminds me that, if you look deeper, the chibi/super-deformed artstyle is quite creepy. You're literally deforming characters of various ages to have a head-body proportion of a baby. Yes, it's human instinct to look at a baby or baby-like creatures (like kittens or puppies) and go 'aawww' and I know illustrators/animators try to exploit that instinct, but then some of them put those chibi characters in adult clothing or situations...

 

[Kurtikeya]

Keep in mind that EVA's Anno originally blamed America for Japan's current state.

Let’s Die Together

Why is anonymous group suicide so popular in Japan?

www.theatlantic.com

Click to shrink...

A sentiment in line with Murakami's Little Boy Japan to Big Brother America, actually.

But Murakami also contends that Japan's popular culture has created a society dominated by childish tastes, and seduced by the feelings of safety such tastes provoke. The title of his exhibition is deliberate: the term Little Boy does not just refer to the first atomic bomb, but also to the infantilisation of a traumatised, though materially wealthy, nation.

In the catalogue he writes about kawai, a Japanese word meaning cute and used to describe everything from Hello Kitty and Lolicoms (depictions of Lolita-like girls in cartoons and models) to the strangely aestheticised reactions among some in younger generations to the war. "Kawai culture has become a living entity that pervades everything. With a population heedless of the cost of embracing immaturity, the nation is in the throes of a dilemma: a preoccupation with anti-ageing may conquer not only the human heart, but also the body.

...

Of course, in a sense, all these pathologies and lurid creations are America's fault. Murakami contends that the Japanese people have developed a dependency on the US as protector that began with the postwar occupation and continues today: "Our general removal from world politics and distorted dependence on the US leaves us in a circumscribed, closed-in system, inhabiting an Orwellian, science-fiction realm."

The ghastly centrepiece to the whole show is a huge, grossly yellow, plastic mutant-cum-turd that sits with tree branches sticking out of it like an irradiated porcupine. We are told Noboru Tsubaki's exhibit, called Aesthetic Pollution, represents the conflicting feelings of love and hate towards American culture. Looking at Aesthetic Pollution, though, I didn't feel the love, just plenty of hate and resentment - as if 60 years of national trauma had been given physical form and airlifted across the Pacific in repayment for some long-nurtured wound.

Click to shrink...

Nuclear fall-out | Art | The Guardian

<p>Postwar Japan turned its back on violence. But its artists embraced it. By Stuart Jeffries.</p>

amp.theguardian.com

 

[Valkerion]

I've noticed personally (no idea of this is true wholesale) but it seems that this is a bit of a niche?
-snip-

Click to shrink...

Nailed it in the first line. And the whole post entirely.

I could give my opinion on it but I can tell you guys this stuff isn't some widely accepted material that you can grab at your normal everyday store. It's something that exists but isn't "accepted" if that makes sense. The perception that this stuff is out in public easily available isn't really a thing. This is some niche of niche stuff even in the country they originate from.

 

[King Kingo]

The Japanese anime industry needs to sort this out. Their media is no longer exclusive to Japan even if it certain anime never gets localised.

 

[CloudWolf]

you think the West doesn't sexualize teenagers? Have you seen all these teen shows on CW? How about Euphoria on HBO

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If your takeaway from Euphoria is that it "sexualizes teenagers", you've completely missed the point. Does it show "teenagers" (played by women and guys in their 20's) having sex? Sure. But is it sexualized? No. Or do you think teenagers don't have sex?

The problem with the sexualization of minors in anime isn't that they're shown to have sex or think and talk about sex, it's that they portray teenage girls from a purely male gazey way, wearing extremely skimpy clothing, constantly making suggestive motions and often having breasts two times the size of their head.

 

[Yukari]

Money, That the answer.

Character merchandising made a ton of money to the studio/publisher most beside book/ฺdvd sales

It'll probably be a while till we see proper change. It's very slow moving. There was a poll years back by the government which asked if people approved of banning sexualized depictions of children in anime/manga, and 85% were in favor of the ban. No laws yet, but I think once we finally get that, the ethical concerns will be more prominent in Japan and put a halt to this sort of shit.

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Do you have a Source?
A few Years Ago UN get a ton of heavy backlash from Manga, Anime, and Game Creators.
So If Japan Government tries to ban it. We will see a really big protest/riot.

 

[SteelBeast6Beets]

A sentiment in line with Murakami's Little Boy Japan to Big Brother America, actually.

Nuclear fall-out | Art | The Guardian

<p>Postwar Japan turned its back on violence. But its artists embraced it. By Stuart Jeffries.</p>

amp.theguardian.com

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Natch. The article in my first post did mention that artists and intellectuals share that same opinion. I can only assume, though, this is not a mainstream thing as that decade old article I linked before was the first time I've ever read about this sentiment.

Teen shows that predominantly star actors in their early 20's?

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If your takeaway from Euphoria is that it "sexualizes teenagers", you've completely missed the point. Does it show "teenagers" (played by women and guys in their 20's) having sex? Sure. But is it sexualized? No. Or do you think teenagers don't have sex?

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Yeah, because the one time that an American show had actual teenagers playing teens engaging in sexual situations, the show got accused of child pornography.

Skins (American TV series) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This led me to believe that no, Americans don't believe that teens have sex.

 

[Aurica]

Do you have a Source?
A few Years Ago UN get a ton of heavy backlash from Manga, Anime, and Game Creators.
So If Japan Government tries to ban it. We will see a really big protest/riot.

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No interest in reading the book myself, but it's from Red-Light Nights, Bangkok Daze by William Sparrow. I believe he originally published an article about it in 2007, but that article doesn't exist anymore. No clue what his source is, because I couldn't find original information reporting that.

 

[Kurtikeya]

Natch. The article in my first post did mention that artists and intellectuals share that same opinion. I can only assume, though, this is not a mainstream thing as that decade old article I linked before was the first time I've ever read about this sentiment.

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It could also be that the reason why the sentiment seems so recent or niche (or both) is because both the nation's globalization push (specifically, the Cute-Cool Japan thing) as well as the global reception around it is also recent. Hello Kitty (the face of Japan's "pink globalization) and Doraemon were named ambassadors in 2008. The kawaii taishi in 2009. Haven't gotten around to digging more stuff about Mario and Pokemon but they also fall under the recent "global wink" Japan has chosen as a tool to rehabilitate and reintroduce itself.

Also, memory studies is a fairly new field, and finds a curious expression in Japan insofar that it's not a postcolonial nation. Again, young Misora Hibari is the key figure as the early postwar shoujo who defined Japanese modernity. In addition to pioneering the child pop star (including its sexualization), she was also popular for playing a street orphan in a lot of the films she starred in. Elswhere, Akutagawa's preoccupation with story structure above all else and his penchant for the doppleganger; and films like Rashomon, Seven Samurai, and Godzilla all echoed these sentiments of grief and loss of identity, just not from the lens of one of the most popular and influential shoujo figures.

So the yearning for lost innocence and the attempt to regain it has always been there. Where it became to be considered infantilisation (because of America or because Japan's pursuit of play ought to be considered self-destructive) is what I'm unsure of. I just know it's still so felt, unconsciously or not. From Haruki Murakami's sad boy protagonists, Ishiguro's (yes I know he's British) relationship with a Japan "that exists only in his imagination", the plight of the salaryman (the company you work for as most intimate unit, the closest thing to the pre-war Japanese family) and most curiously, Alice, who has been taken in and raised as the most perfect shoujo.

 

[HyperDimension]

Keep in mind that EVA's Anno originally blamed America for Japan's current state.

Let’s Die Together

Why is anonymous group suicide so popular in Japan?

www.theatlantic.com

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Interesting insight into Hideaki Anno. It's ironic how he views Japan as "a country of children" despite the fact that Japan has the oldest aging population in the world. Seems like a clash of generations, between the 60+ generation (equivalent to "baby boomers" in the West) and the under-50 generation (equivalent to "Gen X" and "Millennials" in the West), each holding differing notions of adulthood. And maybe the West is also gradually heading in this direction (e.g. Millennials obsessed with superheroes, Disney, Nintendo, mobile games, etc.).

 

[SteelBeast6Beets]

Interesting insight into Hideaki Anno. It's ironic how he views Japan as "a country of children" despite the fact that Japan has the oldest aging population in the world. Seems like a clash of generations, between the 60+ generation (equivalent to "baby boomers" in the West) and the under-50 generation (equivalent to "Gen X" and "Millennials" in the West), each holding differing notions of adulthood. And maybe the West is also gradually heading in this direction (e.g. Millennials obsessed with superheroes, Disney, Nintendo, mobile games, etc.).

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I've always interpreted that bit as Anno lambasting the otaku culture once again. Guy really has it for them. Hell, Rei from EVA was supposedly to be a creepy indictment towards the idealized love interest as envisioned by otakus back then. That flew over pretty much everybody's head and now Rei is pretty much an archetype that has inspired countless copycats.

I do agree there seem to be a bit of "old man yelling at clouds" with a dash of "back in the good ol' days" on Anno's statements, though.

 

[HyperDimension]

I've always interpreted that bit as Anno lambasting the otaku culture once again. Guy really has it for them. Hell, Rei from EVA was supposedly to be a creepy indictment towards the idealized love interest as envisioned by otakus back then. That flew over pretty much everybody's head and now Rei is pretty much an archetype that has inspired countless copycats.

I do agree there seem to be a bit of "old man yelling at clouds" with a dash of "back in the good ol' days" on Anno's statements, though.

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Same happened for Shinji Ikari. He was a deconstruction of the angsty mecha anime hero, yet he ironically ended up becoming the poster-child of the angsty mecha anime hero. Similarly, Cloud Strife in Final Fantasy VII was a deconstruction of the JRPG hero, yet Cloud ironically ended up becoming the poster-boy for JRPG heroes. When a work of art becomes too popular, the original message sometimes gets lost in the process.

Anno is of the Boomer generation. So his comments about younger generations of Japanese people (Gen X and Millennials) aren't too surprising. Over the past several decades, "Otaku" culture has had a profound impact on Japanese culture and society (despite "Otaku" culture being frowned upon). And Anno clearly doesn't like the negative influence that "Otaku" culture is having on Japanese society. Not unlike how Boomers in the West complain about the negative influence of comic books and video games on Western society.

 

[Skyebaron]

Even on mainstream anime this shit pops up

Its incredible what you can get around with lore.

 

[DragonSJG]

Even on mainstream anime this shit pops up

Its incredible what you can get around with lore.

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Labrava is 21, not a child.
She's just really short

And she's not even sexualized at all

 

[Polioliolio]

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Boob and pervy stuff is fine really. It's when kids are involved or it's a kid friendly program that it makes you cringe and wonder why it had to be in there at all.

This here looks kind of funny, but I'm presuming that's a baby? I had a son who's coming out of infancy, and that's a pretty close representation to reality.

 

[mrmoose]

Boob and pervy stuff is fine really. It's when kids are involved or it's a kid friendly program that it makes you cringe and wonder why it had to be in there at all.

This here looks kind of funny, but I'm presuming that's a baby? I had a son who's coming out of infancy, and that's a pretty close representation to reality.

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No that's not a baby...