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Nov 23, 2019
7,446
RRT4 ▶︎▶︎▶︎
Y'all better be ready to pay more for consoles and physical games if you want to move production to SK or japan
Physical game production has nothing to do with China. Like at all.

For Blu-ray and CD production, for example Sony have several factories all around world just for that, including Europe (in Austria, Russia, Czechia, etc) - https://www.sonydadc.com/contact-locations/

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Soap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,207
Well then i hope you make a good example and stop buying all gaming products, chinese made phones/tech and also don't wear any clothes made by kids in bangladesh then?
Or I support policies like this that make it easier for me to buy products ethically. I don't see why it has to be an all or nothing thing.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,368
Or I support policies like this that make it easier for me to buy products ethically. I don't see why it has to be an all or nothing thing.
So you're ok with supporting slave labor as long as it means you will have access to your luxury products when quote: "but people can live without games if it means we aren't being complicit in some of China's actions. "

Seems a bit hypocritical?
 
Oct 25, 2017
15,172
Not sure if it states it clearly to anyone else, but is this spending effort per company or is it upwards of 2 billionn set aside to give to corporations in general to build away of China?

Cause if it's the latter, that's not nearly enough to convince total removal of chinese production, most it really does is promote a slower manufacturing production growth in nearby countries.

To me this isn't REALLY targeted at mega-corps or worldwide spanning japanese companies like Sony and Nintendo. Smaller ones, sure, but I don't think this will really effect anything majorly on the video game side.
 
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Sumio Mondo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,939
United Kingdom
And again, where is your alternative to the unique environment they can provide? Where are you going to get those resources that we need? This is not going to be a 1-2 change where you just easily move production to South Korea, Taiwan and Japan like you shortsightedly suggest. Even in the best case this will take a decade or more, and it will not be driven by countries massively moving production out of China (although it should happen partially for strategic things) but by its own population. And even then, if you want to move on the short term, you can't exactly claim the respect for workforce is a lot better in places like Congo where another big part of the resources are. Europe and North America are quite poor when it comes to rare earth metals and the likes.

Isn't that something that should figured out short term first? This is something the governments of the world will have to figure out themselves. It seems like you're looking for a way for me to provide a be all answer because you and others here annoyed with my "moral superiority" whilst not providing an answer of "where do we go if not China" and that irks you all for some reason (that's fine). My point isn't really that we should pull out of China right away without figuring out what can be done first, (especially without each country preparing first and negotiating with another country to produce x, y, z) if we look at the region of Asia, there's a lot of countries there that already produce for the world but not on a mass production scale that China are popping out now. The world is no better off than it ever was before if it just stays compliant on being okay with slave labour.
 

Nanashrew

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
Learning more about this, this may not target larger companies, especially electronics companies. This is 2 billion total and not per company so this won't change much for them. It could be that Japan is looking to have locally sourced products for cases like the pandemic that is currently happening now so they don't have to wait on shipments. But it's unknown until they clarify further.
 

pretzel

Alt Account
Banned
Nov 9, 2019
159
Germany
With Corona it seems that globalization is really on its death bed. This will have disastrous consequences for economies which mainly thrive on exports, like China and Germany. The latter will especially be fucked because of its complete lack of any resources and poisoned relationships with the neighboring countries due to their unwillingness to help others financially during this crisis.
 

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,509
This got me thinking, if Sony, Nintendo and others will shift their console/games production away from China.

Nintendo already started doing this to some extent during one of trump's toys-out-the pram moments.

www.businessinsider.com

Nintendo is moving production of its hit Nintendo Switch game console to Vietnam amid trade tensions between China and the US

Nintendo's hit game console, the Nintendo Switch, is produced in China. But now, Nintendo is moving at least part of its production to Vietnam.

In consumer electronic China is not only competetive because of cheap labor. They have hands on rare earth elements and TSMC and and such are insanely well adjusted to pruduce chips. Also if you have totalitarian goverment on your side you never have to worry about laws protecting enviroment and such.
Truth be told China has world by the balls with production of electronics.
Maybe companies like for example Hario (coffe gear manufacter) and will produce 100% japan made prodcts if subsided but for game console I don't think it's possible

TSMC is based in Taiwan and iirc only a few of their fab sites are in China.
 

RingoGaSuki

Member
Apr 22, 2019
2,445
I feel like this is 30 years late? Production moved to China a long time ago.



You wouldn't have the game industry today if not for China. In fact, most commodities are reliant on China. And frankly, it's a bit offensive to read that you want to dominate and subjugate another country.
Huh? Nintendo at least only moved production from Japan to China in 2002, after the Gamecube's launch. They started shifting from China to Vietnam last year to avoid US sanctions (40% of Switches are now made in Vietnam), that percentage has likely only grown since then. It would be great if they diversified a bit more though, open a factory in Japan back up or something. China has nothing to do with the modern game industry.

I paid AU$475 for Switch at launch, I'd gladly pay another $100 for one that was made free from slave labour.
 

Deleted member 2328

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,354
At this point diversifying your production locations seems to be a good idea in general. Even China should move some of its capacity to other provinces, maybe even outside its borders.
 
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chowyunfatt

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
333
User Banned (1 month): Xenophobia
How many people are in China? A couple billion? They should grow some balls and over turn the curupt communist government. China is a descrace to the world.
 

K Samedi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,990
I already heard some presidents say that this is an opportunity for their country. All countries that can scale up their production capacity will be in line to take a piece of that pie now that politicians understand that it's not good to be reliant on one provider.
 

Xx 720

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,920
I"m old as dirt, can remember when Japanese electronics were the shit - everyone bought JPN products - tvs, radios, stereos etc., and they lasted for fucking ever - hope they have a revival as they aren't the same since they started building the stuff in China, its kinda junky now tbh.
 

Goldenhen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
236
Sydney
We can't leave China if we want cheap gaming products. Otherwise we're gonna have increase the price across the board.
 

Maximo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,192
How many people are in China? A couple billion? They should grow some balls and over turn the curupt communist government. China is a descrace to the world.

How many people are in America? A couple million? They should grow some balls and over turn the corrupt government. America is a descrace to the world.
 

Cripterion

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,104
As you can see from these replies people here will happily tolerate slave labour (and ethnic cleansing) for slightly cheaper consoles.

If it's like this here imagine how apathetic other places will be.

World isn't fair...news at 11. Unless you live by yourself on a remote island and are self sufficient, you also probably live off the misery of someone else.
 

Wing Scarab

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
1,757
User banned (2 weeks): Inflammatory whataboutism
There are more countries than just China, SK and Nippon in the world, no where does it say they think of bringing production back to their own country.

And yes, after this corona virus shit is settled many countries will move production out of China, especially for essentials, globalization is gonna take a hit.


Why always bring America into it, Xi Jinpooh is an evil man whose only equal is Hitler and Stalin. There's an active genocide and ethnic cleansing going on.
Because America is the reason for a lot of crap that happens in the world and you act as if Trump is any better.

There's an active genocide and ethnic cleansing going on.

You mean like the genocide and ethnic cleansing of blacks in America?
 
Nov 4, 2017
7,382
I"m old as dirt, can remember when Japanese electronics were the shit - everyone bought JPN products - tvs, radios, stereos etc., and they lasted for fucking ever - hope they have a revival as they aren't the same since they started building the stuff in China, its kinda junky now tbh.
I think some things are made in Japan are still held in high esteem. For example Japanese capacitors are often used as a selling point on electronics. I have a 15 year old Sony amp made in Japan that still works beautifully, and I think some Sony products are still made in Japan (like headphones).
 

Valkerion

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,246
I think COVID really put a highlight on how relying so much on a single region can really screw over the other big economies if something happens to it. Not to mention any country would rather their own areas be supported though local business, even if its not a realistic goal for most, Japan in particular.
 

Deleted member 932

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
487
Consoles used to be made in Japan, and they were as cheap and cutting edge back then as they are today (comparatively speaking).

With that said, I welcome whatever measure it takes to move manufacturing back to Japan.

1) Pair down the technology inside the systems
2) Increase the price
3) Make generations last longer
4) Sell them at a cost (as it used to be the case before PS4)

All of these propositions are realistic; I'm not sure they'd be enough to compensate for the increased manufacturing costs.
Of course, consumers' habits are just as important. Buying digital goods, and used when physical is the only option, can help. As far as electronics devices in general are concerned, we should buy new stuff only when the old one becomes unusable, for example, your smartphone stops getting security updates, your tv breaks down etc.
 

JMeth

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
251
Illinois
Because America is the reason for a lot of crap that happens in the world and you act as if Trump is any better.





You mean like the genocide and ethnic cleansing of blacks in America?


I mean that's a hot take. There are some definite racial issues that need to be addressed but calling it genocide sorta of diminishes the term and what real genocide and ethnic cleansing really is.
 

Xx 720

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,920
Can remember in the 70 and 80s you could buy a Toyota and realistically expect 15 - 20 years on it, that all stopped when they started manufacturing out the JPN, same with electronics, hope JPN starts making their own stuff again.
 

Video Kojima

Banned
Apr 5, 2020
2,541
There should be an endeavour to stabilize parts of Africa, if companies want cheap Labour and the rarest natural resources in earth.

Of course, this ignores the fact that much of the developed world has a whole benefits immensely from an unstable Africa.
 

MANUELF

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,241
For those saying they want to restart factories in Japan remember you need work force for that and Japan is not a good source of it nowadays, way less young people over there than 20-30 years ago
 

Wing Scarab

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
1,757
I mean that's a hot take. There are some definite racial issues that need to be addressed but calling it genocide sorta of diminishes the term and what real genocide and ethnic cleansing really is.
There are black people getting killed by police just for fun on a daily basis. Just last week a police officer was filmed coughing on black people as he walks by them and laughing about it.

Black man is told to get his id out. Black man tells police that he has a gun where his id is. Reaches for id, gets shot in front of his daughter.

White male shoots at 3 cops but is taken without no harm done to him.

I can list hundreds of examples for you.
 

Heromanz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,202
There should be an endeavour to stabilize parts of Africa, if companies want cheap Labour and the rarest natural resources in earth.

Of course, this ignores the fact that much of the developed world has a whole benefits immensely from an unstable Africa.
giving African countries cheap slave labor will do zero to stabilize anything. Maybe instead of cheap labor we actual begin to pay people a livable wage. And western countries have been expoting African of it natural resources for over 200s years now and has brought noting but disaster
 

KtSlime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,910
Tokyo
I mean that's a hot take. There are some definite racial issues that need to be addressed but calling it genocide sorta of diminishes the term and what real genocide and ethnic cleansing really is.
Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide said:
"Genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group." It then goes on to describe the acts as "killing, causing serious bodily or mental harm, deliberately inflicting conditions calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part, imposing measures intended to prevent births, or forcibly transferring children of the group to another group"
Seems to be a bit like how America treats African Americans. Of course, America's long history of genocide should not be used to excuse the genocides happening in other countries such as China.
 
Nov 4, 2017
7,382
Consoles used to be made in Japan, and they were as cheap and cutting edge back then as they are today (comparatively speaking).
The NES, SNES, GB, SMS and SMD used processors from the 70s, the PS1 used a CPU based on a design from the 80s. Arcade games were often significantly compromised to run at home. I'm not sure which of those were made in Japan, but I wouldn't call them cutting edge compared to the likes of the last couple of generations or the one coming.
 

Nanashrew

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
I"m old as dirt, can remember when Japanese electronics were the shit - everyone bought JPN products - tvs, radios, stereos etc., and they lasted for fucking ever - hope they have a revival as they aren't the same since they started building the stuff in China, its kinda junky now tbh.
Doubt that will ever come back. Sad part of that history is the US and it's xenophobia about Japan's dominance in the electronics and semiconductor business led to the US forcing sanctions on Japan regarding it which wound up causing the chip famine of 1988 which hurt many US and Japanese semiconductor businesses and electronics businesses. The chip Famine of 1988 has been considered to be the equivalent to the gas shortage of the 1970's.
 

JMeth

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
251
Illinois
Can remember in the 70 and 80s you could buy a Toyota and realistically expect 15 - 20 years on it, that all stopped when they started manufacturing out the JPN, same with electronics, hope JPN starts making their own stuff again.


I work in Toyota production and honestly the quality standards are just as high as they have always been, Toyotas still in general last longer than competing cars and many of the core parts are still made in Japan, the real issue is that there is so much division now. As to where before every part was made in a single locale, now parts for one model might be produced among 15 or more different factories in completely seperate regions. This makes keeping tabs on every aspect of the production next to impossible