Japan to support their companies with $2,2 Billion to move production away from China (are sony, nintendo etc doing this?)

Kliemie · Apr 12, 2020

I came across this article, and thought its interesting to share and discuss: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrap...in-multi-billion-dollar-coronavirus-shakeout/

"Japan's government would spend upwards of $2 billion helping its multinationals leave China."

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1248070712079699968?s=21

This got me thinking, if Sony, Nintendo and others will shift their console/games production away from China.

Also, Would it be too late for Sony to move their next gen PS5 production to another country before release this holiday?

remember TLOU2 delay is mostly due to the logistics (as head of Naughty dogs said). Could this be the reason why we have an indefinite timing?

Finally, if this happens, this Could become a huge change for the gaming industry and its business model etc.

what say you ERA?

please, lets keep this discussion without any racism towards China and/or others.

Ganondolf · Apr 12, 2020

I think Nintendo uses Taiwan for some of their console production but I think most of the parts are still made in China

TheUnseenTheUnheard · Apr 12, 2020

The faster we bring China to its knees the better.

Wing Scarab · Apr 12, 2020

TheUnseenTheUnheard said:
The faster we bring China to its knees the better.

How about we bring America to its knees also.

Deleted member 8196 · Apr 12, 2020

TheUnseenTheUnheard said:
The faster we bring China to its knees the better.

Good luck with that.

Unless a country will magically provide the same amount of workforce at the same price or even lower that's not happening at all.

TheUnseenTheUnheard · Apr 12, 2020

Stygr said:
Good luck with that.

Unless a country will magically provide the same amount of workforce at the same price or even lower that's not happening at all.

Yeah it will take some work

Sumio Mondo · Apr 12, 2020

Stygr said:
Good luck with that.

Unless a country will magically provide the same amount of workforce at the same price or even lower that's not happening at all.

Taiwan, Japan and South Korea?

Joni · Apr 12, 2020

Sumio Mondo said:
Taiwan, Japan and South Korea?

Combined, these countries represent about 15% of the workforce China has. And they are all three more expensive.

TheDutchSlayer · Apr 12, 2020

No way moving away from China, devices / everything could go up like 50/75% in sell price if made in a country with good labor and paying jobs.
No way companies like Sony are willing to take that risk.

Samiya · Apr 12, 2020

I feel like this is 30 years late? Production moved to China a long time ago.

TheUnseenTheUnheard said:
The faster we bring China to its knees the better.

You wouldn't have the game industry today if not for China. In fact, most commodities are reliant on China. And frankly, it's a bit offensive to read that you want to dominate and subjugate another country.

Deleted member 8196 · Apr 12, 2020

Sumio Mondo said:
Taiwan, Japan and South Korea?

Maybe if you combine them and multiply by 10 you will probably get the same amount of workforce and price is going to be inevitably higher.

RestEerie · Apr 12, 2020

TheUnseenTheUnheard said:
The faster we bring China to its knees the better.

Who do u want china to bow down to?

Xando · Apr 12, 2020

Kliemie said:
remember TLOU2 delay is mostly due to the logistics (as head of Naughty dogs said). Could this be the reason why we have an indefinite timing?

TLOU didn't get delayed because of production. It got delayed because they can't sell the game anywhere

Sumio Mondo · Apr 12, 2020

Joni said:
Combined, these countries represent about 15% of the workforce China has. And they are all three more expensive.

Stygr said:
Maybe if you combine them and multiply by 10 you will probably get the same amount of workforce and price is going to be inevitably higher.

So the world should just put up with CCP's crap including slave labour, gotcha.

dlauv · Apr 12, 2020

In the short term this maybe makes sense, but why?

Xando · Apr 12, 2020

Y'all better be ready to pay more for consoles and physical games if you want to move production to SK or japan

nsilvias · Apr 12, 2020

dlauv said:
In the short term this maybe makes sense, but why?

When all your shit is made in China and that country is in lock down during a pandemic it can be pretty hard to get what you need

Deleted member 8196 · Apr 12, 2020

Xando said:
Y'all better be ready to pay more for consoles and physical games if you want to move production to SK or japan

Don't tell them that.

Soap · Apr 12, 2020

Xando said:
Y'all better be ready to pay more for consoles and physical games if you want to move production to SK or japan

Hmm. More expensive products or slave labour. Hmm.

Joni · Apr 12, 2020

Sumio Mondo said:
So the world should just put up with CCP's crap including slave labour, gotcha.

You are the person that claimed those three tiny countries could have a workforce as big and as cheap as the most populated country in the world. We are just calling out that that is a bad statement.

And that is not even taking into account every reason why China is such a big producer: natural resources because even if you move production, you need those resources, so feel free to moral grandstand and then realize that slave labour is still used for every component, and the government gladly devaluating the currency to remain competitive. And that is not taking into account that CCP's crap is exactly why China became such a global powerhouse in the world. Even India that has the same workforce can't reform fast enough because they can't pull the same crap.

Glasfrut · Apr 12, 2020

Sumio Mondo said:
So the world should just put up with CCP's crap including slave labour, gotcha.

You're not really addressing the point they made. And I doubt that's what they meant.

Sumio Mondo · Apr 12, 2020

Xando said:
Y'all better be ready to pay more for consoles and physical games if you want to move production to SK or japan

Could really give a tuppenny shit about new consoles in this climate and with the way CCP locks away and tortures people because of their faith.

Ganondolf · Apr 12, 2020

From what I can find online, minimum wage:

China: $2.11
Japan: $7.28

there is no way a company like Sony or Nintendo would bring production to japan unless they make a factory that's all automated with a tiny human crew.

K Samedi · Apr 12, 2020

The important thing is to have multiple locations in multiple countries to do the production. Not everything will leave China but there are other options out there and also a real opportunity for countries to grab a share of the manufacturing business.

Tiddy · Apr 12, 2020

Ganondolf said:
From what I can find online, minimum wage:

China: $2.11
Japan: $7.28

Can't wait for 2000$ consoles.

Cipherr · Apr 12, 2020

Xando said:
Y'all better be ready to pay more for consoles and physical games if you want to move production to SK or japan

More than willing to do so considering what we would get back in humanity for that exchange. That being said Im a grown man now with my own steady and reliable disposable income. A cash strapped younger version of myself still in uni might feel differently. But regardless of that, I feel morally its the right thing to do even at the expense of the amount of access to a completely non-essential hobby.

Soap said:
Hmm. More expensive products or slave labour. Hmm.

Exactly. This isn't exactly a hard decision. But this is also off topic a bit so we should ease up on this.

Xando · Apr 12, 2020

Soap said:
Hmm. More expensive products or slave labour. Hmm.

That's nice and a fine position to take but a lot of people don't have the luxury and would be locked out of gaming if consoles or games become even more expensive.

Also changes very little as chinese production will just move on to something else.

sirap · Apr 12, 2020

The sooner these companies move away from slave labour, the better.

Sadly, it will remain a pipe dream.

Crumpo · Apr 12, 2020

nsilvias said:
When all your shit is made in China and that country is in lock down during a pandemic it can be pretty hard to get what you need

Yeah because every other country has free borders and high production.

They acknowledged the short term benefit but how does this benefit in the long term?

As others have said, even with high levels of automation I would be very surprised if they can replace even a fraction of the output, even before you look at price.

Decarb · Apr 12, 2020

Xando said:
Y'all better be ready to pay more for consoles and physical games if you want to move production to SK or japan

I'd pay more money for made in Japan tech stuff in a heartbeat.

Soap · Apr 12, 2020

Xando said:
That's nice and a fine position to take but a lot of people don't have the luxury and would be locked out of gaming if consoles or games become even more expensive.

Gaming is a luxury product anyway. This may be a gaming forum and I will likely get a lot of negativity, but people can live without games if it means we aren't being complicit in some of China's actions.

Sumio Mondo · Apr 12, 2020

Joni said:
You are the person that claimed those three tiny countries could have a workforce as big and as cheap as the most populated country in the world. We are just calling out that that is a bad statement.

And that is not even taking into account every reason why China is such a big producer: natural resources because even if you move production, you need those resources, so feel free to moral grandstand and then realize that slave labour is still used for every component, and the government gladly devaluating the currency to remain competitive. And that is not taking into account that CCP's crap is exactly why China became such a global powerhouse in the world. Even India that has the same workforce can't reform fast enough because they can't pull the same crap.

Well, unless countries actually pressure China into changing, rather than keeping things as they are, then we will always come back to this moment where we all rely on CCP to produce. Seems like you would prefer we just go back to the way things were before but after all is said and done, things have got to change. We can't just sit back on this and think "this is fine". Since it's clearly not. If it means we have to pay more for products, even if it's short term until a better long term plan is established then oh well. Not like any of us are coming out from this current climate any better off anyway.

MysticGon · Apr 12, 2020

Soap said:
Hmm. More expensive products or slave labour. Hmm.

Seriously. It shouldn't even be a question.

Xando · Apr 12, 2020

Soap said:
Gaming is a luxury product anyway. This may be a gaming forum and I will likely get a lot of negativity, but people can live without games if it means we aren't being complicit in some of China's actions.

Well then i hope you make a good example and stop buying all gaming products, chinese made phones/tech and also don't wear any clothes made by kids in bangladesh then?

UnluckyKate · Apr 12, 2020

Weren't day one ps4 build in china and japan ? People were comparing serial numbers to knlw where theirs was build ?

nsilvias · Apr 12, 2020

[/QUOTE]

Crumpo said:
Yeah because every other country has free borders and high production.

They acknowledged the short term benefit but how does this benefit in the long term?

As others have said, even with high levels of automation I would be very surprised if they can replace even a fraction of the output, even before you look at price.

the benefit is not being caught with your pants down during a another pandemic because all your stuff comes from one place because companies wanted to outsource everything to the cheapest place.

A good chunk of what we've been using during this pandemic has been coming out of China

Zippo · Apr 12, 2020

See this thread went to shit with the moral superiority real quick.

On topic, I don't know how this would affect everything if we're talking Japan's economy. This might lose them more money in the end.

Bulebule · Apr 12, 2020

I am glad that they are trying to find alternative solutions, but since China has lower working prices compared to most countries (and therefore provide less expenses), it won't happen any time soon. And as unfortunate as it is, many people don't really care about the poor working conditions there as long as they get stuff for their hobbies (not just game industry) cheaper, even if their public face says "get rid of the slave labor". For most people, their own well-being is a priority before caring about anyone else.

I wish there was an alternative with reasonable working conditions but not provide too many additional expenses to comparies and end-users.

Joni · Apr 12, 2020

Sumio Mondo said:
Well, unless countries actually pressure China into changing, rather than keeping things as they are, then we will always come back to this moment where we all rely on CCP to produce. Seems like you would prefer we just go back to the way things were before but after all is said and done, things have got to change. We can't just sit back on this and think "this is fine". Since it's clearly not. If it means we have to pay more for products, even if it's short term until a better long term plan is established then oh well. Not like any of us are coming out from this current climate any better off anyway.

And again, where is your alternative to the unique environment they can provide? Where are you going to get those resources that we need? This is not going to be a 1-2 change where you just easily move production to South Korea, Taiwan and Japan like you shortsightedly suggest. Even in the best case this will take a decade or more, and it will not be driven by countries massively moving production out of China (although it should happen partially for strategic things) but by its own population. And even then, if you want to move on the short term, you can't exactly claim the respect for workforce is a lot better in places like Congo where another big part of the resources are. Europe and North America are quite poor when it comes to rare earth metals and the likes.

KastuśKalinoŭski · Apr 12, 2020

Stygr said:
Good luck with that.

Unless a country will magically provide the same amount of workforce at the same price or even lower that's not happening at all.

It can be done, just it won't be all-in-one place anymore. Workforce is not problem, it's more about logistic.

Also, China itself more and more (often secretly) uses workforce from poorer countries, like North Korea, Cambodia, etc. Like if you have jeans with "Made in China" label, there's a big chance it was produced in NK.

Heromanz · Apr 12, 2020

Sumio Mondo said:
So the world should just put up with CCP's crap including slave labour, gotcha.

They already do, like every company chooses China or other countries because they can pay their workers very little that's the whole point of going to China. the problem isn't China for say it's the company's who continued the practice of going to China

dlauv · Apr 12, 2020

nsilvias said:
When all your shit is made in China and that country is in lock down during a pandemic it can be pretty hard to get what you need

Yeah I'm probably just overestimating the amount their putting forward because this seemed like a long term solution to a short term problem.

Deleted member 16876 · Apr 12, 2020

sirap said:
The sooner these companies move away from slave labour, the better.

Sadly, it will remain a pipe dream.

This.

UltraMagnus · Apr 12, 2020

Heromanz said:
They already do, like every company chooses China for other countries because they can pay their workers very little that's the whole point of going to China.

The truth is though on this point I mean it's not like workers in nearby Vietnam or India wouldn't be willing to work for less even. That said it is depressing how much of global production relies on ridiculously exploitative wages.

The Masked Mufti · Apr 12, 2020

Samiya said:
I feel like this is 30 years late? Production moved to China a long time ago.

You wouldn't have the game industry today if not for China. In fact, most commodities are reliant on China. And frankly, it's a bit offensive to read that you want to dominate and subjugate another country.

No it's not. The poster you quoted is referring to the oppressive Chinese government, not the Chinese public. And the Chinese government are absolute cunts.

Heromanz · Apr 12, 2020

UltraMagnus said:
The truth is though on this point I mean it's not like workers in nearby Vietnam or India wouldn't be willing to work for less even. That said it is depressing how much of global production relies on ridiculously exploitative wages.

that's the whole point of the system. To produce a lot, make billions and give the work pennies.

Segafreak · Apr 12, 2020

Xando said:
japan

Ganondolf said:
From what I can find online, minimum wage:

China: $2.11
Japan: $7.28

there is no way a company like Sony or Nintendo would bring production to japan unless they make a factory that's all automated with a tiny human crew.

Tiddy said:
Can't wait for 2000$ consoles.

There are more countries than just China, SK and Nippon in the world, no where does it say they think of bringing production back to their own country.

And yes, after this corona virus shit is settled many countries will move production out of China, especially for essentials, globalization is gonna take a hit.

Wing Scarab said:
How about we bring America to its knees also.

Why always bring America into it, Xi Jinpooh is an evil man whose only equal is Hitler and Stalin. There's an active genocide and ethnic cleansing going on.

Nanashrew · Apr 12, 2020

Companies are already moving away from China because it's getting expensive.

Neo C. · Apr 12, 2020

I would appreciate if more companies move to Vietnam, but those 2.2 billion won't be enough to make significant shifts.

bell_hooks · Apr 12, 2020

In consumer electronic China is not only competetive because of cheap labor. They have hands on rare earth elements and TSMC and and such are insanely well adjusted to pruduce chips. Also if you have totalitarian goverment on your side you never have to worry about laws protecting enviroment and such.
Truth be told China has world by the balls with production of electronics.
Maybe companies like for example Hario (coffe gear manufacter) and will produce 100% japan made prodcts if subsided but for game console I don't think it's possible

Japan to support their companies with $2,2 Billion to move production away from China (are sony, nintendo etc doing this?)

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