I think they got fucking immunity for handing over test results to the US too.
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Japan’s rising sun flag should be banned at the Tokyo Olympics
- Thread starter Excuse me
- Start date
Thanks for framing it in this way, I was unaware of how the flag itself was so directly tied to the military, I was under the impression it was their flag in general. I just hope that controversy over the flag itself does not spill off into its history of art and culture in Japan.
Japan's leadership and war criminals got an easy ride, the emperor shouldn't have been allowed to die in luxury.
The U.S actually COVERED UP Unit 731!!!! The U.S covered up Unit 731 so good that other Western countries either ignored or dismissed the victim accounts as being "communist propaganda."
Disgusting, I don't know how anyone with a shred of humanity could cover everything up.
The only war crimes hearing involving Imperial Japan and Unit 731 was conducted by the Soviet Union:
All but Epyx's.
Same reason people fly confederate flags in the US.
To clarify: the Rising Sun flag was never the flag of Japan as a polity, it was adopted as the war flag of the Imperial Japanese Army and the ensign of the navy in the Meiji period (late 19th century), and came to represent the Empire's military campaigns throughout Asia. The national flag of Japan has been the simple red sun on white, the Hinomaru, since the Meiji Restoration.
Japan never "changed its flag", the representation of the state has always been the Hinomaru. As such, the modern Japanese flag is itself contentious, and for some, also represents the Imperial past. A modified Rising Sun continues to be used for the Japanese Self-Defense Forces.
The Rising Sun is somewhat more analogous to the Iron Cross, in that it was a traditional war emblem coopted as military iconography by a modern regime. However, comparisons to the Nazi Swastika aren't invalid, as it was used to represent Japanese occupation and Imperial ambition. Incidentally, the contemporary German military continues to use the Iron Cross.
In modern Japan, the Rising Sun is often seen as a symbol of good luck, patriotism, and fighting spirit, in much the same way the Stars and Stripes are seen in the US. It's ubiquitous in product packaging, festival decorations, and at sporting events in a way that isn't specifically referencing Imperial Japan. However, its connection to that era has been maintained by right-wing groups, who use it in a manner similar to the Confederate flag.
Japan never "changed its flag", the representation of the state has always been the Hinomaru. As such, the modern Japanese flag is itself contentious, and for some, also represents the Imperial past. A modified Rising Sun continues to be used for the Japanese Self-Defense Forces.
The Rising Sun is somewhat more analogous to the Iron Cross, in that it was a traditional war emblem coopted as military iconography by a modern regime. However, comparisons to the Nazi Swastika aren't invalid, as it was used to represent Japanese occupation and Imperial ambition. Incidentally, the contemporary German military continues to use the Iron Cross.
In modern Japan, the Rising Sun is often seen as a symbol of good luck, patriotism, and fighting spirit, in much the same way the Stars and Stripes are seen in the US. It's ubiquitous in product packaging, festival decorations, and at sporting events in a way that isn't specifically referencing Imperial Japan. However, its connection to that era has been maintained by right-wing groups, who use it in a manner similar to the Confederate flag.
why do modern americans fly the confederate flag? it's an ideological display, they want japan to be a militarily powerful country again so they can do all the things such countries do.
Well from what I gathered in this thread it's still used by the Japanese military to some extent and was a war flag during their imperial period, so the flag being used in the context of dominating other countries even if it's just in sports is kinda fucked up.
Think of the way French people use the Fleur-de-lis, or English people the heraldic lion, or German people the imperial eagle. National iconography and its relevance to a cultural psyche doesn't stop existing when there's a political change.
No it wasn't, it was a war flag, same as the Stars and Bars. Also, the Nazi Swastika was the national flag of Germany, so what are you talking about?
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To countries that suffered at the hands of the Japanese in WWII, the Rising Sun flag is absolutely a symbol of oppression and hate, just like the swastika. And right wing nationalist groups in Japan have adopted as their symbol to celebrate the country's militarism in WWII.
EDIT: and the Rising Sun flag is a battle flag (the one with the rays). The national flag is the one with the red circle.
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Japan's national flag during WW2 is the same as the current one without the sun rays. The Rising Sun is specifically the Japanese Imperial war flag, and the SDF and Naval flags that are based on it are likewise war flags.
The German flag was always a variation of the three stripes of Black/Red/Yellow or Black/Red/White (until the Nazis ruined that color combination) -except- during the Nazi regime/WW2. It's not the same thing since the Rising Sun existed before WW2. That said, I didn't know this before, so thank you for this post:
Over 160 posts in this thread and people continue to say untrue things as if they were fact and I don't understand why.
1. That doesn't make it right, the flag is completely comparable to Swastika/Confederate flag. Once again please look through this thread and read up on Unit 731, and Raping of Nanking then say with a straight face they weren't as bad/the same. Because Korea (and China) would disagree with your statement.
2. It was never their national flag at any point in Japan's history, the Nisshouki/Hinomaru has been their national flag since 1870 to present day. The Rising sun flags were and have always the war flag of the Imperial military. The Imperial Navy's was the RIsing Sun off center to the left, and the Imperial Army's was the Rising Sun centered. It was literally adopted during the Meiji era for that exact reason, and you know where they got the flag design from? Edo period warlords.
Yeah that flag has no business being displayed on the Olympics. Especially since the current government thinks they can sidestep criticism with historical mumbo jumbo.
I already owned up to my ignorance on this in the previous post, and I appreciate learning and correcting my knowledge. Furthermore, I have been very aware of Unit 731 and the Rape of Nanking for a long long time.
That being said, I'm going to maintain that as it is an actively used flag, and its history does extend much further in history before these atrocities, it isn't quite the same thing. Though I also agree that a military flag shouldn't be used at the Olympics anyways. My understanding is this is about allowing attendees of the games to bring their own flag or not, right?
User banned (1 week): Inflammatory whataboutism. Thread derail.
Can we ban the American flag too?
OP needs to clarify that it's the WW2 sun beams flag, not the sole Sun on White official flag
because the official flag (red circle on white) is The Sun
because the official flag (red circle on white) is The Sun
User Banned (3 Days): Inflammatory Commentary
If I were a nationalistic piece of shit, why I would want to wave that flag anyway? the last time that it was oficially used the USA kicked their asses so hard that they had to make anime and videogames to gain the west trust again
OP said the Rising Sun flag, which is perfectly unambiguous.
the Hinomaru which is the official flag is a Sun
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now back on topic,
the Empierial War Battle Flag that you are referring to is not the official flag and is associated with Empire, War and Conquest.
IMO, the Rising Sun Battle Flag should not be flown in an international sporting event.
a) it's not the official flag
b) it's an imperialist warring battle flag associated with invasion and pillaged
so they should just stick to the Official Flag, and not allow the "Batttle" flag in the arenas.
"Rising Sun Flag" refers to this:the Hinomaru which is the official flag is a Sun
"Rising Sun Flag" does not refer to this:
the Hinomaru which is the official flag is a Sun
I'm wondering why that is not the official flag for the SDF:
I understand but it is still a Sun"Rising Sun Flag" refers to this:
"Rising Sun Flag" does not refer to this:
OP
OP
Yeah, sorry, I didn't even think of people could confuse them. I'll add the flags to OP to avoid further confusion.
The fact that is an actively used flag doesn't excuse shit, the nazi flag is still actively used by some hateful morons all around the world, and the context matters, in this day, you are really disingenuous to imply the rising sun flag would hold any other connotation that go past beyond the last century...
Germany apologized and banned the Nazi flag.
Japan never really apologized and never banned their Sun Beams Battle Flag
There's a lot of laughable and face-palming moments in this thread. The rising sun flag has a long history that pre-dates WW2 so some literal comparisons with other "flags of hatred" isn't compatible because of origins of these flags.Regardless of that, South Korea and China have the right to ask the Olympic organisers to ban the flag because it was a flag used by the imperial Japanese army that have committed atrocities in those countries . The Olympics is a global event and has no place for such events regardless if Japanese people perceive it to be a symbolic importance.
Go ahead and tell a Korean or Chinese person that the rising sun flag isn't a flag of hatred. I'm sure they'll react positively to you.
Heinous shit was done under that flag, I understand that and don't condone that in any way. The difference is that flag not only existed prior to the heinous stuff occurring (unlike the Nazi flag), but it is still used in an official capacity to this day. Should it have been banned after WW2 like the Nazi flag? Maybe, but it wasn't. Time can change symbols, especially when they weren't created solely for evil. Maybe some people do use it for what it represented back then, it's very probable -- but unlike the Nazi flag which means that 100% of the time, the Rising Sun clearly doesn't. Apart from its continued official use, it's now also just iconography that is used in Japan in various other ways. People have posted some very clear examples in this thread, such as:
Do these (and other) uses in pop culture mean they are condoning WW2-era atrocities? No, they don't.Shiina Ringo is one of the directors for the opening ceremony and will probably perform, unfortunately, at her live shows she sells a variation of the flag that she waves during certain songs, most of the crowd has them too.
OP
OP
I don't get the long tradition argument. By same logic Nazi salute is ok since it has long tradition from Roman times all the way to US (Bellamy salute), let's not just call it Nazi salute. But anyway, I agree with you that Olympics is not a place for military flag.
I think big problem is that time hasn't changed the symbol. Well, except for Japanese and western people. And I suspect that much of it has to do how history is teached in Japan and in west. Japan goes far and beyond not talk about it's war crimes and most countries in west don't go deep into war in pacific, given they had their own theater going on. For many of Japan's neighbors the flag is still toxic.
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Funny how Japan was willing to remove a symbol used in WWII by another country so as not to offend foreigners going to the Olympics, but won't remove another symbol used by them in a similar manner at the time which actually offends the very people they oppresed.
1. Some people here will fight to the death to defend sainted Japan; beloved home of their video games, Mecha and tiddy shows.
Yeah I am shocked how many people are missing this.
Well, not that shocked. I suppose it's willful denial?
And yeah, I've seen the flag on some people's clothing even here in the states and you best believe they get the side eye.
It's like wearing clothing with swastikas on them.
A lot of American people just don't grow up with the same context. I mean, my parents are Chinese and even I've been desensitized to it. It's like those random Nazi-themed stores and memorabilia you find in Southeast Asia, it just looks cool to them.
Which is fine, **but now that it's been explained**.... you'd think they'd learn.
OP
OP
Yep, if you are not WWII vet then there is a good chance that you don't know much about rising sun flag. And it is cool design and pops up a lot in pop culture, so I'm not surprised when I see somebody sporting rising sun t-shirt. But I hope people will learn more about it and eventually ditch it.
I didn't say it wasn't a flag of hatred. I'm pretty sure you mis read it on purpose.
I clearly said that comparisons with other flags of hatred is a bit tricky since the flag pre-dates the atrocities that they have committed in WW2.
I also said that military flag has no purpose being used in a global event such as the Olympics.
Being mixed Japanese myself, that battle flag always made me a bit uneasy.
People keep posting the E Honda bathouse and artwork with the sunburst... that's different. Thematic sunbursts in art are one thing--the exact same flag as an inhuman, ultranationalist regime is another entirely.
Besides, why the hell cling to that flag? Japan has A TON of awesome flag iconography throughout their history. Put Oda Nobunaga's clan crest on a flag or something, lmao
People keep posting the E Honda bathouse and artwork with the sunburst... that's different. Thematic sunbursts in art are one thing--the exact same flag as an inhuman, ultranationalist regime is another entirely.
Besides, why the hell cling to that flag? Japan has A TON of awesome flag iconography throughout their history. Put Oda Nobunaga's clan crest on a flag or something, lmao