Was gonna say, we (the U.S.) and others have done some heinous shit, but we talk about it and continue to do so. We're nowhere near where we should be in regards to our past, but we're wayyyy past Japan.
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Japan’s rising sun flag should be banned at the Tokyo Olympics
- Thread starter Excuse me
- Start date
Was gonna say, we (the U.S.) and others have done some heinous shit, but we talk about it and continue to do so. We're nowhere near where we should be in regards to our past, but we're wayyyy past Japan.
I don't like the idea of military stuff being in the Olympics.
Not sure how I feel about the Rising Sun flag. I'm sort of in the camp that thinks symbols can change and be rehabilitated over a long enough time span. The Rising Sun is a Pre-WW2 flag, and modern Japan has continued to use it over the course of its 70 year peaceful existence. You can look at it as a symbol of Japan that represents the good and the bad over its history.
Confederate flag is a little different since it represents a country that actively fought against the current country and no longer exists. I wish the south wasn't so racist because the design of the flag is great, and I see no problem with the innocent Duke's of Hazard "this flag represents my home region" usage. For the record I think the ban on government usage of the Stars and Bars is completely justified.
Not sure how I feel about the Rising Sun flag. I'm sort of in the camp that thinks symbols can change and be rehabilitated over a long enough time span. The Rising Sun is a Pre-WW2 flag, and modern Japan has continued to use it over the course of its 70 year peaceful existence. You can look at it as a symbol of Japan that represents the good and the bad over its history.
Confederate flag is a little different since it represents a country that actively fought against the current country and no longer exists. I wish the south wasn't so racist because the design of the flag is great, and I see no problem with the innocent Duke's of Hazard "this flag represents my home region" usage. For the record I think the ban on government usage of the Stars and Bars is completely justified.
The articles in the OP specifically say that modern right-wing groups are using the flag at their rallies and marches.
The Japanese military still uses the Rising Sun flag, picture from Wikipedia, states it's taken in 2011
Head of the 10th Division and other regiments on JSDF Day in 2011
What's a military flag doing in the Olympics?
Are you fucking daft? It's connotations in East Asia are not much different from the Nazi flag in Europe. The Japanese military's war crimes under that flag during WWII was based on Japanese racial superiority over the people they conquered.
Fuck you and your stupid ass justifications and whataboutisms.
To build on what you're saying, I put the Confederate flag in the same bucket with the Nazi flag because they were both used in an official capacity for an incredibly short duration and only associated with a racist and murderous government.
The Rising Sun flag has quite a bit more history with it but it's also associated with imperial expansion, a murderous government, and Imperial deification.
So to me it's just a notch below the Confederate or Nazi flag which isn't exactly helping its case at all.
It's kind of insulting that people are deflecting any criticism of Imperialist Japan to the United States. Guess what, we talk about a lot of the abhorrent crap the United States does all the time, having a single thread talking about the association with that flag and the terrible things Imperialist Japan did, it's okay. Take a second and realize that there are people here who's families were personally affected by what Japan did in WWII.
Someone flying a Confederate flag at, say, an NFL game would be told to put it away or leave. So I'm not sure what your point is.
It absolutely isn't. (Well I guess it is, but it's not wrong)
The union jack represents millions of people in my country dead, our culture and language (almost) destroyed. And that's just us not the impact on the wider world.
I personally dont think any of em should be banned. The rising sun has a history far longer than just world war II or the Japanese imperial age, just as I wouldn't ban the union jack even though I despise it personally.
Korea and Japan are currently undergoing strained diplomatic relations this is just ammunition.
And I didn't complain about anything, I gave my point of view on the union jack, and the general situation.
0 percent of what I wrote was a complaint I literally don't understand how you can interpret that way.
Ammunition, yes. But not unfounded. You're Union Jack reference comes off as Keep Calm, Walk On.
I don't know what that means but it sounds close to you dismissing the crimes committed under the union jack because it's an inconvenient comparison for you.
The US uses their flag all the time. Hell our military PAYS to have it displayed in sporting events
The only difference is that the US uses the same flag for both.
This is like the ok hand defense. "It was used in the circle game long ago, so it can't be a white supremacist symbol!"
It's kind of like flying a confederate flag in the states. Kind of.
Represents outdated values that make people mad.
How would that be. Korea is leveraging historical representation, and I'm pointing out the fact it should not relieve the Union Jack.
Yeah as ammunition against Japan in a trade dispute.
Korea moved on on this stuff years ago, there's been consious efforts at play here to bring it back up. On both sides, the Japanese do stuff to irritate the Koreans too.
I'm from a country that is the analogue of Korea and we spent most of the 20th doing this kind of thing. Trade disputes, hating their symbols flags, royalty etc, but eventually we moved on.
I still don't like it, and in case you don't realize they still control part of our island (a claim we also gave up) but I don't begrudge them their symbols in their Homeland.
Not quite done between Japan and Korea, there's a few last cohorts.
Sure. This is from 2015 but the same displays continue in sporting events today.
For what it's worth, the NFL paid back the money it received after this report got out.
OP
OP
Then the easy question. Would you be ok with people wawing Nazi flag at sport games? Rising sun flag is Nazi flag for many asian countries.
Most people don't even know about Japan's wrongdoings in the South east.
I can't win an argument against that, but it's not a correct analogy.
What do you think the union jack is to the nationalists in Northern Ireland? It's the flag of the oppressor.
The Nazi Flag doesn't have a history beyond world war II, the rising sun flag, the union jack or the iron cross as was mentioned earlier do.
Well China successfully banned Taiwan's flag and name from the Olympics.
The German military still uses the Iron Cross on select equipment but it's pretty sus to wear/fly that shit.
Although quite similar, the flag that's usually targeted at is not the JSDF flag pictured in your post but rather the JMSDF flag (navy) which is basically the WWII Imperial flag but with the sun shifted slightly to the left.
Now of course, there is a debate to be had about countries which did or did not change their flags after they were found guilty of war crimes - I would say they should all have and a lot haven't - but in this case, Japan did. And yet, there is a specific obsession from the Japanese far-right to carry high and proud that specific navy flag which is nothing but a successful attempt by the most influent and fierce members of the military back right after WWII to keep the old Imperial flag up. It's just natural that some people would be uncomfortable with that. It's not the country's official flag, it's the closest legally accepted representation of Japan's worst hours in the XXth century. A racist, supremacist backdoor.
You can put it however way you want, it does send a hostile message.
How comfortable would Europeans be if the German Navy decided to fly a Nazi flag with the cross turned clockwise 30 degrees?
How would people react if that very flag, again, was hand-picked by sports fans among a variety of existing other flags to represent the country in an event where nationalism tends to be exacerbated?
Goddamn! It seems in the US that Japan has one of the GOAT rehabilitation campaigns ever huh? 20M Chinese people killed?For people who aren't familiar, Unit 731, described as being the "Asian Holocaust":
The Ohio State University
The Asian Holocaust - OSU: https://u.osu.edu/ncta/files/2017/02/Painter-EastAsia2-1-1symr4v.pdf
https://medium.com/dose/the-asian-holocaust-killed-twice-as-many-people-as-the-nazis-did-877f0a7c664
Unit 731 - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
The swastika has a long history as well.
The rising sun flag was adopted as Japan war flag by their fascist government, this is what made it famous and this why any of us knows about it. In post WW2 years it it is a right wing reactionary symbol more than anything, and their racist right wingers and holocaust deniers love to fly it. Japanese right wingers make the same "heritage not hate" argument that you see everywhere, but I think they're equally bullshit.
The only real different that I see between it and the nazi flag is that in the 50s their right wing shitty government adopted something kinda like it as their navy flag and the west were like "ehhh, at least they're not communists".
I mean tell that to the Roman Salute(which was the salute used world wide for centuries prior to WW2 that was coopted by the Nazi's), or the complete banning of the original Manji symbol in the west(pre WW2 it was even used on Boy Scout memorabilia coins).
plenty of stuff that's been coopted hasn't been reclaimed
The U.S COVERED UP Unit 731!!!! The U.S covered up Unit 731 so good that other Western countries either ignored or dismissed the victim accounts as being "communist propaganda."
The cold war was a hell of a drug, the US was really worried about a communist Japan and their racist right wingers were also the strongest anti-communist warriors, they were also holocaust deniers but what you gonna do?
Same reason people fly confederate flags.
Ah, so they are not using it officially? Then they certainly should ban it.
People use the confederate flag officially.
It's true it's not the official state flag of Japan (mostly because the US didn't let them use it), but their racist right wingers are trying to shove it everywhere they can, just like they do in the US.
Their navy flag kinda looks like it, and yeah, they only adopted it after the US ended the occupation of Japan.
3? (Germany, Italy and Portugal) Not that they necessarily changed their flags for that reason. There could be more countries as well since a lot of nations have changed flags.
It's not whataboutism, it's comparison. Unlike the Nazi flag or even the Confederate flag, the Union Jack and Rising Sun flags were not created with the ideology that back their colonialist attrocities in mind. There is more history behind the Rising Sun than World War II, and it shouldn't be defined by that one moment in Japan's history when it's cultural relevance in art and other mediums go far beyond it. Should we find 19th century art featuring the Rising Sun offensive because of unrelated actions in the 20th century? I'm not trying to trivialize the horrific actions done by the Japanese under that flag, I'm just saying that there are no direct connections between those actions and that flag other than it flying at that time, which is the case for many other flags as well
What's a single day or a millenium of torment. It's a fresh one too.
It is a war flag created by imperial Japan and since the day it was adopted it flew over Japanese armies invading other countries and committing horrific crimes there.
Japanese fascists like to say that no, it has a rich history and it's heritage not hate, but I think this is just bullshit.
There is a reason why right wing racists in Japan keep waving it, and it's not because some warlord in the Asuka period had similar iconography.
For people who aren't familiar, Unit 731, described as being the "Asian Holocaust":
The Ohio State University
The Asian Holocaust - OSU: https://u.osu.edu/ncta/files/2017/02/Painter-EastAsia2-1-1symr4v.pdf
https://medium.com/dose/the-asian-holocaust-killed-twice-as-many-people-as-the-nazis-did-877f0a7c664
Unit 731 - Wikipedia
I remember watching a film about unit 732, it was harrowing
IOC only cares if the people giving them money care. They're not as bad as FIFA but that's not a high bar.
This. Unit 731 is one of the most fucked up things I have ever read. Reading it when I was 15 made me afraid to sleep at night honestly
Most countries aren't cool with the flag of treasonists in their midst.