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Jaime losing his hand...

  • Transformed him (Losing it humbled him and forced him to become a kinder person)

    Votes: 353 73.4%
  • Revealed him (Kingslayer was just a persona, he was always a decent guy but hid that due to hate)

    Votes: 128 26.6%

  • Total voters
    481

Deleted member 52442

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After he lost his hand, we saw him become a very different person than he was previously. My question is - did losing his hand humble him and force him to change? Or was the cocky, i-dont-care-about-anyone Kingslayer a persona that was revealed once he could no longer hide behind it?
 

Robotnik

Member
Nov 3, 2017
249
I think if it was just a persona he wouldn't have pushed a child out of a tower window
 

Shoe

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,183
Whatever character development he had was thrown in the dumpster at the series' end, so it didn't really matter
 

Luxuria

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
703
Miami, FL
Jaime's development was my favorite in the series. I absolutely loved him by the end.

Then the end happened and that got thrown out the window.
 

Quinton

Specialist at TheGamer / Reviewer at RPG Site
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,256
Midgar, With Love
Jaime's Flamin' Hot Dogshit Journey eighth-season characterization aside, I'd say it transformed him.
 

Neece

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,199
Neither

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Also he raped Cersei. It's canon.
 
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pants

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,177
Little of both, but mostly humbled.

Dude was rich, privileged, handsome, and one of the best sword fighters in the whole land. Killing the Mad King was the only good deed he ever did, but he'd never be able to take proper credit for it due to his oath.

So he leans into it like a persona.

Losing his hand forced him to rely on his weakness (diplomacy/cooperation,) and the kindness of strangers. Needing to project his focus outward and away from himself onto the people around him was a net positive. He gets better.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,097
Sydney
It's all mangled by the ending of the series, any redemption he might have ascertained he throws away by going back to Cersei.

If the last books are ever written I'm very interested to see what Martin does with him because the last chapter we get from him throwing Cersei's letter into the fire suggests unlike other characters, things will unfold kind of differently.
 

Static

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,108
It was revelatory.

It changed the way he saw everyone and everything around him, as well as how he saw himself.
 

Vic_Viper

Thanked By SGM
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,035
Losing the hand was part of it, but I think the majority of it was his journey with Brieanne, coupled with being away from Sersei. He was changing during that trip with Brieanne even before he lost his hand.

But no, he wasnt always like that. At least not all of him. There were parts of him that were kind, like how he treated Tyrion compared to Sersei. But he changed after being taken captive and then losing his hand.
 

Moff

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,781
I wouldn't say it forced him to become a better person, it rather showed him a different perspective and empathy.

the "reveal" theory does not make sense to me, if he wanted to stay cruel he could have just become lord of casterly rock and follow in his fathers footsteps.
 

lorddarkflare

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,248
Jaime's development was my favorite in the series. I absolutely loved him by the end.

Then the end happened and that got thrown out the window.

Him slinking back to Cersei is not even all that out of character for him. The biggest issue is the context around how he backslides and that inane speech he gives about never really giving a fuck.

Ugh.
 

Kahoots

Member
Feb 15, 2018
985
The show has no logical character development.

With book Jaime it isn't primarily about his Hand or losing Cersei, it is about Tywin dying (the HAND is actually a symbolic nod to Tywin and Jaime's future, as Tywin was the Hand of the King and Jaime will eclipse him in that position). Tywin dying leaves a void that for the good of the realm someone must fill, and the only person willing and able will be Jaime. The role is that of doing the dishonourable for the greater good, such as threatening to load a baby into trebuchet to end a siege peacefully. Under the umbrella of Tywin's protection Jaime could afford to play the reckless uncaring child, without Tywin it's either Jaime does it or nobody does and the realm pays. Jaime's willingness to stand dishonour and the realm's hatred for the sake of a greater cause is meant to contrast with Tyrion who above all else craves love.

To the question of if it made him or was it always in him - it has always been in him. He cut down the king he was sworn to protect, then hunted the pyromancers down like dogs. He is ruthless, calculating and logical in his cause. The problem was after having been judged the kingslayer he went off the rails and rather than serve a greater good he began serving was his own selfishness and Cersei.

People think it's about good and bad, or from dishonourable to honourable, they're wrong, it isn't. It is from selfishness to servant. Jaime's future is to be the realm's greatest servant, that means doing even more vile heinous shit than he has already done in the realm's service. The king eats, the Hand takes the shit. He's also likely to be tortured and mutilated further than just his hand, he is to give over everything he holds personally, including his body, for the realm.
 

Deleted member 32005

User requested account closure
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Nov 8, 2017
1,853
Considering his actions at the end of the series, where he regressed all the way back to episode 1 Jaimie I'd say it didnt do squat shit but string along the audience.
 

alpha

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,001
Show? Nobody cares because they fucked it up in the last season.

Book (AKA the good version)? It changed him.
 

Wracu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,396
Jesus. I really should have dropped the show then.

They reaaaaaallly murdered his character. By far one of the worst hatchet jobs. I'm fairly certain nothing Jaime does after season 4 has any relevance at all to his character in the books going forward. It's all horrible fan fic.

They literally replaced his ADWD storyline almost completely and omitted entire characters/plotlines that have tons of relevance to him. It's actually impossible for things to play out the same way on myriad fronts. Even if he backpedals in some way in the books there will at least be real human motivations lol.
 

pants

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,177
It's all mangled by the ending of the series, any redemption he might have ascertained he throws away by going back to Cersei.

If the last books are ever written I'm very interested to see what Martin does with him because the last chapter we get from him throwing Cersei's letter into the fire suggests unlike other characters, things will unfold kind of differently.

Have you ever deleted an ex's number and sworn off all communication? It doesn't always stick if you know what you like and you only know one place to get it.
 

lorddarkflare

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,248
Have you ever deleted an ex's number and sworn off all communication? It doesn't always stick if you know what you like and you only know one place to get it.

Yeah, I came to the same conclusion myself. The issue really is in the how.

Had they really wanted him to go back to her, he would have done it after they all stormed King's Landing.

An entire season of political intrigue should then have preceded his backslide. But he would backslide as post-development Jamie, not effectively book 1 Jamie.
 

anamika

Member
May 18, 2018
2,622
Neither.

He was always a rich, privileged, self pitying fool. Unlike Cersei and Tyrion, he was Tywin's golden boy and favorite child.

And the way he kept complaining about how Ned did not acknowledge him saving KL by killing Aerys? Ned does not know what Jaime did unless Jaime tells him.

And after losing his hand, he hangs some hungry outlaws created by the war he caused with his incestuous adultery and boasts about being 'Goldenhand the Just'. And pawns off the task of helping Catelyn's daughters onto Brienne. The scene where the Blackfish mocks him is pretty good.
"Are there any terms you will accept?" he demanded of the Blackfish.

"From you?" Ser Brynden shrugged. "No."

"Why did you even come to treat with me?"

"A siege is deadly dull. I wanted to see this stump of yours and hear whatever excuses you cared to offer up for your latest enormities. They were feebler than I'd hoped. You always disappoint, Kingslayer." The Blackfish wheeled his mare and trotted back toward Riverrun.

I thought Jaime naming his horse 'Honor' was as hilarious as Joffrey naming his sword 'Lion's Tooth'.
 
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Version 3.0

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,161
I chose "revealed him", because if you were paying attention, Jaime wanted to be the good guy all along. He was dying to be the noble knight . He was thrilled to join the Kingsguard. He saved the city from the Mad King.

He was just pissed that killing King Aerys ruined his reputation instead of making it. No one cared that he saved everyone. Instead they named him Kingslayer (fair) and shit on him for betraying his oaths.

Losing his hand just removed his false bravado of not caring what people think of him.

If you pick "transformed him", then I have to argue what actually happened is it "transformed him BACK".

edit: and yeah, the show did a terrible job of handling Jaime's character after they ran out of book material. I think that should go without saying - they did a terrible job with everything after they ran out of book material.
 

Deleted member 83122

User requested account closure
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Whatever character development he had was thrown in the dumpster at the series' end, so it didn't really matter
And now I'm sad again, thanks a lot Shoe and Kegels!

I voted for transformed him, he was a mean person, but suffering through that humbled him. Just imagine that horse ride with that sour thing dangling from his neck, absolutely horrific.
 

Ramirez

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,228
I know most hate the ending he got, but really, it was perfect to me. I have a person in my life who I know isn't good for me, but honestly, I would cross anyone when the time came to be with them even though I know it's not a good situation. I don't particularly like that I feel this way, but it resonated with me on a deep level, that's all. Totally understand why most hated it though.

Curious to see if he does the same in the books. (lol)
 

Poppy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,269
richmond, va
it at least partially offset the absolutely maddening insecurity that is the core of his character, like jaime is defined entirely by who he looked up to when he was a teenager, he is a complete manchild who happened to be good with a sword

he is forced to become an adult and learn feelings because now he has no other option, at least while he was with brienne
 

Deleted member 83122

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 15, 2020
861
I know most hate the ending he got, but really, it was perfect to me. I have a person in my life who I know isn't good for me, but honestly, I would cross anyone when the time came to be with them even though I know it's not a good situation. I don't particularly like that I feel this way, but it resonated with me on a deep level, that's all. Totally understand why most hated it though.

Curious to see if he does the same in the books. (lol)
misfits.gif
 

CampFreddie

A King's Landing
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,954
The show has no logical character development.

With book Jaime it isn't primarily about his Hand or losing Cersei, it is about Tywin dying (the HAND is actually a symbolic nod to Tywin and Jaime's future, as Tywin was the Hand of the King and Jaime will eclipse him in that position). Tywin dying leaves a void that for the good of the realm someone must fill, and the only person willing and able will be Jaime. The role is that of doing the dishonourable for the greater good, such as threatening to load a baby into trebuchet to end a siege peacefully. Under the umbrella of Tywin's protection Jaime could afford to play the reckless uncaring child, without Tywin it's either Jaime does it or nobody does and the realm pays. Jaime's willingness to stand dishonour and the realm's hatred for the sake of a greater cause is meant to contrast with Tyrion who above all else craves love.

To the question of if it made him or was it always in him - it has always been in him. He cut down the king he was sworn to protect, then hunted the pyromancers down like dogs. He is ruthless, calculating and logical in his cause. The problem was after having been judged the kingslayer he went off the rails and rather than serve a greater good he began serving was his own selfishness and Cersei.

People think it's about good and bad, or from dishonourable to honourable, they're wrong, it isn't. It is from selfishness to servant. Jaime's future is to be the realm's greatest servant, that means doing even more vile heinous shit than he has already done in the realm's service. The king eats, the Hand takes the shit. He's also likely to be tortured and mutilated further than just his hand, he is to give over everything he holds personally, including his body, for the realm.
This is a very good post. The book's characters are never about simple goodies/baddies.
The last paragraph is a bit speculative, but seems a likely path. I think Jaime is still trying to figure out who he is, without Tywin protecting/dominating him and with his growing understanding that Cersei is going to fuck everything up unless he does something.