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J. Schreier: "Don't let billion dollar marketing convince you it's a spoiler" [See Threadmarks for further clarification]
- Thread starter Musubi
- Start date
lmao what
I never got trailers/magazines ads/commercials for things I might buy as Christmas gifts? What a weird comparison.
I never got trailers/magazines ads/commercials for things I might buy as Christmas gifts? What a weird comparison.
I think there is value in presenting information about a piece of media in a deliberate and considered way. The marketing teams I've worked alongside sweat the most minute details over how best to show our collective work to the public, and those of us on the development side are invested in seeing those plans come to fruition.
I think I understand Jason's point - he wants a world that is less precious about things like "reveals" that in his view aren't meaningful - but I think he discounts the value of a well crafted surprise and the hard work that goes into it. You needn't shed any tears for "billion-dollar corporate marketing" but do consider that the people that craft those campaigns, and the developers on those games, are dedicated to their work and want to delight the potential audience as much as possible on their own terms.
I think I understand Jason's point - he wants a world that is less precious about things like "reveals" that in his view aren't meaningful - but I think he discounts the value of a well crafted surprise and the hard work that goes into it. You needn't shed any tears for "billion-dollar corporate marketing" but do consider that the people that craft those campaigns, and the developers on those games, are dedicated to their work and want to delight the potential audience as much as possible on their own terms.
The thing is, when somebody on 4chan leaks it, who knows if this is true. Tons of fake stuff is posted there.
When Jason or Eurogamer writes about, you know it's basically a confirmation without an official press release.
I think a lot of people are looking too far into this. Some of us just want to take a couple hours a year to see some cool shit and have "HOLY FUCK, LOOK AT THAT" moments.
It's not brand worship, it's just having a good time and enjoying surprises.
Leaks aren't the end of the damn world, but it does ruin that surprise element.
It's not brand worship, it's just having a good time and enjoying surprises.
Leaks aren't the end of the damn world, but it does ruin that surprise element.
Blame the team, then. They're the ones who usually leak stuff themselves.
This is exactly where I went to after seeing Corey's sad little tweet.
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Now that's something I can get behind. Where is Cory on this stuff?
Yep and of all the leaks the game had etc it still got cheered like no other when the game and kratos got revealed
I don't know if it really is difficult to understand or some people use this thread as an opportunity to call others sheep and feel better about themselves.
At this point many of them (or at least those in the movie business) do spend over $1B a year on marketing.
There are just too many sources that can leak a AAA production ahead of time, the secrecy around titles in development is simply unsustainable.
I think i understand your overall point, but how would you see it being handled differently? Should the consumers be entitled to the opposite, like deciding how a game should be revealed and such? If so, what would the reasoning behind that be, and how should this be handled? Or shouldnt the developers and publishers say anything if they're disappointed that their game announcement got leaked? If yes, why shouldnt they do that if they want it?
How is utilitarian being defined by the way? Its true that trailers are made to make a product look interesting in the best way possible, so you can call that being utilitarian in that sense, indeed, but why would that be a bad thing? As long as they dont lie about something in the trailer, i cant see why that would be bad. People might not be a fan of CGI-trailers or something, but its not claimed to be gameplay or anything like that, so its not propaganda at all. Same thing with when smaller developers show of their game in the ways you mention, that is also to make the game better, and also so that it can sell better. I see nothing wrong with that. And this doesnt take away from anything being art. An artist who paint can still paint and make art, but still want to sell the art as well for example. That doesnt mean that the person isnt an artist as well. And what would the opposite be in this case if it shouldnt be utilitarian? How would you personally go about to change this? Its not like the developers want to make a trailer that makes the game look less appealing :)
When it comes to these leaks a few days before the official announcement, i dont think it has much to do with be off-brand or anything like that, but maybe you're thinking more in general? But these leaks basically just confirms the title of the games and that they exist, not much else is mentioned. The main thing these leaks hurt (as far as i can see) is that the people working on the announcement dont get the same excitement of announcing something completely fresh since other beat them to the punch by leaking it. I dont think that this is really damaging to the game overall when it comes to its commercial success in the long run. Or have anyone who works in the gaming industry said that there other reasons why they dont want these leaks to happen?
You mention businessman in specific, but can you understand the same feeling/point of view from a developer as well?
Personally, i dont think that this has much to do with the bombarment of PR and such. Thats not the reason why i'm sometimes looking forward to the press conferences at least. I think its simply a case where people are being somewhat disappointed that an event that they were looking forward to might not turn out to be as exciting as they've initially hoped for. The press conferences is a form of entertainment in themself, afterall. There isnt anything unhealthy about that, and i dont think people should be criticized for feeling this way (maybe that isnt the intention, but it could be interpreted a bit like that, in my opinion). Its not like game announcements in general is a rare thing outside of E3, so i dont think people "must" have the announcement through events like E3 to be happy with a game being announced. It can come down to personal preferences, simply what people like a prefer.
Another thing is regarding how the press conferences are being done. I remember when Nintendo announced that they werent going to do live shows anymore (at least for the time being), but rather do a pre-recorded session instead (Nintendo Direct). Some people prefer the live show instead of this and were (intially at least) disappointed by Nintendo doing this. Its just a matter of preference, and i think the way how games are announced also falls into that category. That said, there hundreds, if not thousands of people giving their opinion on this however, so naturally i cant say for sure how everyone feels about it, but in general, i dont think people put that much into it. Maybe it looks more like that because things are in written form.
EDIT: And just to add my view. I sometimes prefer announcements at events like E3 because i then know that i have something specific to look forward to. If i know "everything" in advance of the event, then its not as exciting to watch it. I'd still watch it most likely, but it wont be exactly the same. Its just how i feel, its not because some gaming companies have taught me to feel this way. At the end of the day though, this wont affect my enjoyment of the game itself :) So its not that big of a deal to me. It doesnt really matter that much to me how it was announced.
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Thank you, I wanted to reply with this instead of what I did but I couldn't find it.
I agree with Schreier in that knowing a game exists isn't a spoiler.
I would argue against the 'movie' analogy in that, unlike with the movie going public, we tend to get real antsy about games that have been announced but that we've not seen or heard about.
I would argue against the 'movie' analogy in that, unlike with the movie going public, we tend to get real antsy about games that have been announced but that we've not seen or heard about.
I feel like all the people concerned and all the ferver and argument over this sort of thing really only matters for like 3 days before E3.
After the dust settles, it is literally of no real consequence, one way or the other. Leaks aren't ruining game's reception (and if they did that would prove a bunch of smoke and mirrors). And 3 days after E3, people will remember the games, not their feelings towards leaked information.
This is all just really a bunch of sound and fury. It only gets a lot of attention and concern right now because it's E4-eve. Any other time and the emotional and real consequences are zero and will be zero after the show.
But it *IS* a corporate presentation. It's a corporation spending stupid amounts of money so they can try and hype people up to give them money when their product launches, or even better, right now without a single benefit to you other than knowing "I have this game when it comes out".
It's primary focus is absolutely still to be a press conference.
I can know beforehand about something leaked and still have a damn good time when it's revealed. I get the surprise factor, but we live in an Internet age now. People should know by this point on how to proceed regarding information. Not logging to social media for a couple days ain't the end of the world either. Leaks are just unavoidable, secrecy is unsustainable in the current age.
There is one other factor to games being known about early, however. It makes it harder for publishers to just kill projects. This can be both good and bad. Obviously devs need to be able to experiment and cut their losses when something isn't working out, but I feel more often than not, it's passion projects that gets the axe. So the gaming community knowing about their project gives them more protection to try to carry out their vision.
Yes, the whole team collectively leaked it. Come on. I understand the other side of the argument for sure, don't misunderstand. I just think that when people work years on something, the reveal is a big deal to them. Look at the video of Cory looking at the meta critic scores. Even I choked up, lol.
That still doesn't change the fact that we can advocate for both though.
No rational here, just a couple of well picked examples... And yes, we already live in that world, you are 100% right, and you are about to make it even worse :)
This is not choosing ending world hunger or curing caner. You can do both.
The Great Spoiler Wars have begun.
Exactly this. And this comparison to knowing about movies years in advance is bullocks. Sometimes we know about games in years in advance too, sometimes we don't know about movies until their reveal trailer either, so it's a mixed bag. Not to mention, why do we even keep comparing games to movies when at the same time people want to get away from that? It's silly.
Anyway, there are only a few really hype events like E3 throughout the year, so leaking reveals in those periods feels lame as hell. However, leaking reveals on a random day of the week untied to specific events? I have less of a problem with that. E3 in particular is a fun event for a lot of people, so ruining the surprises and shaming others for disagreeing with those leaks is crazy.
Exactly this. And this comparison to knowing about movies years in advance is bullocks. Sometimes we know about games in years in advance too, sometimes we don't know about movies until their reveal trailer either, so it's a mixed bag. Not to mention, why do we even keep comparing games to movies when at the same time people want to get away from that? It's silly.
Anyway, there are only a few really hype events like E3 throughout the year, so leaking reveals in those periods feels lame as hell. However, leaking reveals on a random day of the week untied to specific events? I have less of a problem with that. E3 in particular is a fun event for a lot of people, so ruining the surprises and shaming others for disagreeing with those leaks is crazy.
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Its possible but every time Cory has been asked about crunch he spins it as "oh but were all just so passionate and everyone wants to keep working!"
So I'm waiting for the industry to be as concerned for the welfare of their workers as they are their fucking stupid marketing campaigns being leaked early.
I meant more in the sense that leakers are usually part of the team, so if leaks do happen, it's due to a team oversight. Risks always exist, and some are understandably inevitable. Like I said, not every leak happens the same way.
Journalists rarely leak things themselves. Most of the time, they just report on info they found somewhere outside the company, usually from someone within.
I think the way this board handled the leak of Apex Legends shows exactly why having the game revealed properly with all information in proper context is the way to go.
A name or the genre of the game leaking is not bad as that doesn't actually reveal anything but when we get little bits of information with no context then people tend to go nuts and make false assumptions that just get spread around.
A name or the genre of the game leaking is not bad as that doesn't actually reveal anything but when we get little bits of information with no context then people tend to go nuts and make false assumptions that just get spread around.
True but also remember a user on this site that said they dont want anything of final fantasy 7 posted....i mean the game has been out for how long....?
Yes, because preventing leaks should be treated AS EQUAL as basic respectful treatment of your employees.
I don't care much about spoilers, but there is something about the leaker 'culture' that bothers me. Leaks rarely add any value to a reveal and can rob developers from showing their game off first in the context they want to show it in. It feels a bit like rushing to write first on a youtube video before watching it or something.
I think rumors will never not be popular.
I think rumors will never not be popular.
Yeah imagine if every publisher announced every project early. How many cases of Rockstar's Agent would we have?!
Many devs tend to glorify crunch.
I dunno where exactly Cory stands on this issue, but he would come off as massively hypocritical if he were pro-crunch, anti-union something like that (not saying he is).
"Devs deserve respect, except when they don't."
What the fuck is this argument?
As if movies don't get cancelled after being announced. Hell, fucking games get cancelled after receiving a trailer + announcement.
I just don't understand the disconnect between gaming consumers and understanding it's ok that gaming is a business. You know what...thank god it's a business. If billions were spent on us gamers and our entertainment out of goodwill, that would be an embarrassment. There are a lot of needy people in the world who'd love for their worry of the day to be game announcements. Some perspective folks.
So once we accept it's a business and it's ok that it's a business because if multibillion dollar corporations weren't getting results to sell to investors, most of your favorite big games wouldn't be made...then what's wrong with a win, win, win situation where the corporations do big advertising yet gamers and devs treat it like their Super Bowl?
Part of the gaming experience for many people is community and the build up of the dream. It's something that all 3 parties accept as part of the experience. Gaming is just an illusion. You're experiencing stories, characters and worlds that are illusions starting with code. Suddenly we're concerned with the practicality of it?
So once we accept it's a business and it's ok that it's a business because if multibillion dollar corporations weren't getting results to sell to investors, most of your favorite big games wouldn't be made...then what's wrong with a win, win, win situation where the corporations do big advertising yet gamers and devs treat it like their Super Bowl?
Part of the gaming experience for many people is community and the build up of the dream. It's something that all 3 parties accept as part of the experience. Gaming is just an illusion. You're experiencing stories, characters and worlds that are illusions starting with code. Suddenly we're concerned with the practicality of it?
"Don't let a billion dollar!!! corporation convince you. Listen to me, employee of billion dollar corporation who benefits from said leaks convince you. It's much healthier."
Someone probably already mentioned it, but the hate against Mario and Rabbids from the press info leak killed the dev team's morale. There has to be a balance between Omniscience in the game industry by journalists and companies having the ability to reveal things when the company feels they are ready. If a game was cancelled then we should be able to take a look at it and see what could've been.
The thing is I don't care about the marketing spend or any other corporate wish for a reveal to be shown on a certain day due to devs spending time on something. I care about genuinely being surprised during the MS conference, it's something I've been looking forward to months and has nothing to do with anything else. Having it spoiled is a pain but it's as easy as keeping away from gaming news outlets.
I do also care that the likes of eurogamer stick leaks in there headlines which effectively makes the site a no go during e3, I suppose the same can be said for era post titles, I'd rarher leaks were stuck in a single thread that I didn't need to visit.
I do also care that the likes of eurogamer stick leaks in there headlines which effectively makes the site a no go during e3, I suppose the same can be said for era post titles, I'd rarher leaks were stuck in a single thread that I didn't need to visit.
please make a better point than this lame attempt at a hypocrisy takedown
Peak entertainment culture.
Entertainment culture seems to work wonderfully to keep us in our cages.
Entertainment culture seems to work wonderfully to keep us in our cages.
This is kind of a weird argument to make given that some of the things being heralded as megaton hype moments were things announced very early on with almost nothing to show like Sony's E3 2015 show.
