J. Schreier: "Don't let billion dollar marketing convince you it's a spoiler" [See Threadmarks for further clarification]

[JershJopstin]

I'm with Jason.

Most film studios announce projects when they start. Knowing the project exists doesn't stop people from bring excited to see the first trailers.

Games are in development for sometimes years before they're officially announced. People won't mind the film model, honestly. Being told a project exists isn't a bad thing and takes nothing away from an initial trailer.

The game industry obsession with announcements requiring a trailer and thus making knowledge of a project a "spoiler" is not good.

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Leaks two days in advance are the worst of both worlds, though. You don't get the open communication or the surprise. Announcements of projects once they leave pre-production (I don't think you can go earlier than that with the rate of cancellation in this industry) would be nice, and dropping a trailer out of the blue sometime after that like most movies do would still be fun and would still be surprising. Mentioning a bunch of trailers we're going to see two days later doesn't really accomplish anything. The secrecy has problems, yes, but short term leaks don't solve any of them.

 

[AgeEighty]

In what ways are they going away? E3 broke records last year, Nintendo directs are pretty much e3 to Nintendo fans and are way more popular now

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Exactly. But even at E3, Directs aren't just about blowing out new game announcements. Last year was mostly about stuff we already knew about. And there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[MoogleKupoCake]

^ the secrecy has always been a weird obsession of the games industry

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I feel like people don't take it well when a game is revealed too early and then changes (or downgrades) over time so I kind of understand the secrecy of some devs that only want to show things when they're 100 certain it will work.

 

[Crayon]

It's almost as if this could be avoided if everyone ditched E3 and revealed ACTUALLY on their own terms.

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It's slidin that way. Makes so much more sense. E3 is a clusterfuck convention and you are hinging your marketing on it... Just do a controlled show like Nintendo and dont leave all that shit to chance.

 

[IIFloodyII]

If I know about everything before E3 happens, why bother with the concept of E3?

I want to get surprised.

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As said many times it's on you to avoid leaks if you want to be surprised, not us who don't mind leaks for E3/whatever game reveal show to act like stuff hasn't leaked.
The easiest way to avoid leaks, is to just avoid gaming sites, twitter, facebook and gaming subreddits for a few days beforehand. What I used to do when I liked to stay up for E3.

 

[Johnny Cage itS]

Am I the only one who thinks Schrier is only saying this to make his job more relevant?

It's like an unnecessary middle man, crying about how much impact he can have in a transaction between two parties, that don't even require his participation.

Whoop dee fuckin doo gum shoe, you did some 'diggin' and got us some heads up on a project being developed by hundreds of hard working people for the past 3-4 years, about 24 hours ahead of it's official announcement schedule. Here's a cookie Jason for all your hard detective work that most of us self respecting adults never asked for!

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Having a run down of announcements a couple days before they are officially made isn't much of a public service.

 

[John Harker]

Am I the only one who thinks Schrier is only saying this to make his job more relevant?

It's like a unnecessary middle man, crying about how much impact he can have in a transaction between two parties, that don't even require his participation.

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Nope, you're not the only one...

Reposting myself:

person whose business makes money spoiling other businesses plans says his Robin Hood- then insults almost everyone (his audience, and the companies business and the hardworking people who work to surprise and delight said audiences)

 

[Hecht]

I'm a little on the fence here.

One one had, developers taking great care to make an announcement big, worthwhile, and exciting, only for it to be leaked, can seriously deflate those working on it. That's kinda shitty, and I can totally understand where Cory's coming from. People don't like their hard work, especially something like this which is time-gated to a specific event, to be unearthed before it's supposed to.

On the other hand, from a consumer point of view, I don't see how anyone perceives announcement leaks as "spoilers." It's an announcement, not a description of things like major narrative happenings in the game. You simply know that something exists before you were expected to know it exists. If Mother 3 ever gets announced and I suddenly find out about it a week before the announcement, it doesn't really change much for me - I know the announcement is coming, and there's a potential to learn more about the game through the official announcement. At the end of that week, I know just as much as anyone else does. It's not like being spoiled on, say, Citizen Kane rosebud was his 401(k), where I would be annoyed that possibly everything before that revelation in the film is completely devoid of mystery, but with announcements, you're basically being "spoiled" on something that you don't even know could exist.

Surprises are nice, and the excitement of hearing about something new at E3 or a Direct or what-have-you is pretty cool, at least being able to experience it in the moment and even discuss it with others. But for me I don't feel like I've "lost" anything by hearing about it early. If anything it makes me excited to see the official announcement, cause if it's something I've wanted I can get hyped for it a little early.

But regardless, in my view ideally leaks don't happen. It's nice information to gain, but it's nothing earth-shattering. God forbid I have to wonder for that extra week hate-posting "Man I really hope they make a sequel to Fisherman's Bait: A Bass Challenge or else I'll...I'll...I'll continue to keep wanting it."

 

[TreeMePls]

I feel like people don't take it well when a game is revealed too early and then changes (or downgrades) over time so I kind of understand the secrecy of some devs that only want to show things when they're 100 certain it will work.

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That's them failing to meet the expectations of people waiting for the next trailer due to them not keeping people in the loop. Thats almost entirely caused by them being secretive

 

[Spyware]

For me the comparison to movies doesn't work. The announcement is the important part for me so I really don't get the "hype" for a trailer drop. I almost don't even watch movie trailers because I can't stop thinking "ah, and here is that scene from the trailer and it will play out like that" when I watch the movie. Some skipping through can happen if I am unsure about the movie after reading a little about it but that's it.

I don't watch E3 for the trailers either, I watch it for the theatrics and announcements. Opening Twitter or Era and seeing "Game X by Y will show up at E3!" among things like what my buddy did in a game yesterday or thread titles about most hated or loved games is just not the same. It's much more fun to get bombarded with different fun and bombastic announcements together with my friends.

And I don't pre-order games months before release. I don't hype based on trailers (I don't hype games at all in the way people think of hype, actually). It's not about that at all. I just enjoy the show of it. In this thread some are telling me that I should not feel this enjoyment because... it's bad to have fun if the fun is made by marketing teams? Or big corporations? I don't get it at all.

And yes I know it's on me, blah blah, don't go to the internet if you don't want to see it. But we're talking about the phenomenon, not my situation. :)

 

[SuperRaddy]

Am I the only one who thinks Schrier is only saying this to make his job more relevant?

It's like a unnecessary middle man, crying about how much impact he can have in a transaction between two parties, that don't even require his participation.

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Nope not just you... sounds like him trying to justify he is doing s public service in leaks taking place literally a couple of days before they will officially happen. Gotta get those hits and ad revenue afteralll

 

[upandaway]

I'm not sure about the movie comparison. Sure movies get publicly confirmed before shooting but the difference between movies and games is that games routinely get canceled and massively changed during development. A game can start as a sequel for X and then changed to a new IP or canceled, or whatever.

It makes sense that companies want to control the reveal/announcement of a game so that they can reinforce the narrative that if a game is publicly revealed, then it will almost definitely come out, and be very similar to everything that is publicly known about it. Essentially it means that the "announcement" can serve as "this game, with THIS specific vision of it, is 99.9% going to happen" rather than "this game (with no guarantee to the final product) is being made" when in movies these are usually much more closely correlated

Sure the marketing also uses the surprise to generate excitement which is not great but I don't think the movie method is a plug in alternative

 

[Polyh3dron]

I am kind of shocked to see this many people siding with Barlog and not Jason on this. It's like people getting mad when someone in the Chinese supply chain leaks the next iPhone or something, journalists will and should report on it. If you don't want spoilers for your "Gamer Christmas" which is actually just a trade event for industry professionals, stay tf off the internet except for the actual pressers.

 

[TheAvatar]

That's them failing to meet the expectations of people waiting for the next trailer due to them not keeping people in the loop. Thats almost entirely caused by them being secretive

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So you are saying it's on the dev because the dev cycle is hard? I'm quite confused by your statement

 

[Lyng]

Of course leaks aren't spoilers. But obviously it can be frustrating for a developer to see the thing they had planned to unveil a specific way get leaked on a website. Leaks are great for websites but can of course somewhat lessen the "pop" a developer controlled reveal would get.

 

[Opium]

Thumbs up Barlog for speaking up. It's not up to some 3rd hand journos to decide if and when other people's work should be revealed to the public.

 

[Hecht]

I am kind of shocked to see this many people siding with Barlog and not Jason on this. It's like people getting mad when someone in the Chinese supply chain leaks the next iPhone or something, journalists will and should report on it. If you don't want spoilers for your "Gamer Christmas" which is actually just a trade event for industry professionals, stay tf off the internet except for the actual pressers.

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Oh yeah, adding to my original post, I don't think Jason is in "the wrong" for reporting on the leak. That's sorta his job. But that doesn't make me not empathetic to the heartache it may cause the developers.

 

[The Spoony Hou]

Jason saying the truth.

 

[StrangerSphinx]

I am kind of shocked to see this many people siding with Barlog and not Jason on this. It's like people getting mad when someone in the Chinese supply chain leaks the next iPhone or something, journalists will and should report on it. If you don't want spoilers for your "Gamer Christmas" which is actually just a trade event for industry professionals, stay tf off the internet except for the actual pressers.

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You might want to put yourself in those game developers shoes for a moment and think how would you feel when the stuffs that you're developing get leaked just days before the actual announcement.

 

[IIFloodyII]

Thumbs up for Barlog for speaking up. It's not up to some 3rd hand journos to decide if and when other people's work should be revealed.

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It's also not their job to just be a corporate mouthpiece or turn a blind eye to leaks, because the marketing team had a plan.

 

[Lyng]

Thumbs up for Barlog for speaking up. It's not up to some 3rd hand journos to decide if and when other people's work should be revealed.

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It's pretty much exactly their job

 

[wafflebrain]

I am kind of shocked to see this many people siding with Barlog and not Jason on this. It's like people getting mad when someone in the Chinese supply chain leaks the next iPhone or something, journalists will and should report on it. If you don't want spoilers for your "Gamer Christmas" which is actually just a trade event for industry professionals, stay tf off the internet except for the actual pressers.

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Er E3 is open to the public now, this take is quite nonsensical. I assume these big stage reveals streamed to thousands of people are made only for industry professionals as well, especially what with all the pre-orders for reveals going up right after trailers get shown at them. Yup, definitely just for professionals. I think you might be confusing E3 with GDC :)

 

[Armaros]

Oh yeah, adding to my original post, I don't think Jason is in "the wrong" for reporting on the leak. That's sorta his job. But that doesn't make me not empathetic to the heartache it may cause the developers.

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If there is that much heartache over people finding out about the existence of a video game being made not even specifics. Maybe the industry is the thing that needs to change?

 

[Sean]

On the other hand, from a consumer point of view, I don't see how anyone perceives announcement leaks as "spoilers." It's an announcement, not a description of things like major narrative happenings in the game. You simply know that something exists before you were expected to know it exists. If Mother 3 ever gets announced and I suddenly find out about it a week before the announcement, it doesn't really change much for me - I know the announcement is coming, and there's a potential to learn more about the game through the official announcement. At the end of that week, I know just as much as anyone else does. It's not like being spoiled on, say, Citizen Kane rosebud was his 401(k), where I would be annoyed that possibly everything before that revelation in the film is completely devoid of mystery, but with announcements, you're basically being "spoiled" on something that you don't even know could exist.

Surprises are nice, and the excitement of hearing about something new at E3 or a Direct or what-have-you is pretty cool, at least being able to experience it in the moment and even discuss it with others. But for me I don't feel like I've "lost" anything by hearing about it early. If anything it makes me excited to see the official announcement, cause if it's something I've wanted I can get hyped for it a little early.

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Okay, it's not about it being a personal "spoiler". It's about how it changes how we experience it. It's a lot more fun when we're all at the big party and we see it together live for the very first time. That's a much cooler and a much different experience than just clicking on a website on the internet and seeing a thread title.

It doesn't ruin it. It doesn't spoil E3. But it does change it and make it different and a little less fun, at least for me, and a bunch of others here in this thread. I don't think it's unfair to feel a little disappointed that something leaked.

 

[Opium]

It's pretty much exactly their job

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Without the developers consent? Then they're mere parasites.

Some journalism feeding off rumours, speculations and leaks.

 

[Hecht]

If there is that much heartache over people finding out about the existence of a video game being made not even specifics. Maybe the industry is the thing that needs to change?

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I mean there's not really much I think would need to be "changed," per se. People make events all the time and want them to be exciting and engaging. And when things like that, that have specific dates/times, are planned for, the people working on it want it to go smoothly and without a hitch. I don't think there's anything WRONG with companies making these bombastic announcements.

 

[Tzarscream]

Without the developers consent? Then they're mere parasites.

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Oh my lord....

 

[Lyng]

If there is that much heartache over people finding out about the existence of a video game being made not even specifics. Maybe the industry is the thing that needs to change?

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That is every industry though. How a consumer product is revealed has massive implications. If you think the game industry is secretive try looking into the automotive industry.

 

[Jakisthe]

I am kind of shocked to see this many people siding with Barlog and not Jason on this. It's like people getting mad when someone in the Chinese supply chain leaks the next iPhone or something, journalists will and should report on it. If you don't want spoilers for your "Gamer Christmas" which is actually just a trade event for industry professionals, stay tf off the internet except for the actual pressers.

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Journalists can report on whatever, but acting as if people who do like getting surprised are some capitalist stooges is a really dumb argument of his.

 

[TreeMePls]

So you are saying it's on the dev because the dev cycle is hard? I'm quite confused by your statement

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Im not saying its on the dev because dev is hard. Im saying its on whoever is in control of the marketing by showing off a very well polished vertical slice for a specific event(thus setting high expectations going forward), going radio silent on what's going on regarding it, and then revealing what the game actually is(thus people feeling like their expectations weren't met and then feeling disappointed in the end.)

 

[Deleted member 426]

Nah, it's overly cynical to dismiss game reveals as purely marketing fluff. Not only is marketing a valuable part of game development, which a lot of people pour their hearts and souls into, game reveals are also a part of our culture. I personally think this industry would be way less exciting if it was handled like the movie industry.

Just a reminder that just because Jason's investigative pieces and general journalism is incredible, does not mean everything he says his gospel. His opinion pieces have always been hot takes.

 

[Hecht]

Okay, it's not about it being a personal "spoiler". It's about how it changes how we experience it. It's a lot more fun when we're all at the big party and we see it together live for the very first time. That's a much cooler and a much different experience than just clicking on a website on the internet and seeing a thread title.

It doesn't ruin it. It doesn't spoil E3. But it does change it and make it different and a little less fun, at least for me, and a bunch of others here in this thread. I don't think it's unfair to feel a little disappointed that something leaked.

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Right, people are going to experience it in different ways. Personally, it doesn't change much for me. If it affects you that way, then that's fine and I'm not going to argue the point. I just think that equivocating it to something akin to "spoilers" is a bit of a stretch.

 

[Plum]

A capitalist journalist with a vested interest in perpetuating leaks tells people that leaks are good and that those who don't like them are "unhealthy"?

I'm extremely shocked at this development!

Also it's funny how Era suddenly goes full Marxist as soon as spoiler-discussion comes up. Why is it that this example of being "capitalist stooges" is where you draw the line but not, say, the GOTY threads where we all vote on what game to advertise? What about the Live threads where we all gather around to watch capitalist media and then rate said capitalist media afterwards? All of Gaming Side is capitalism; if you're here and taking the time to post then you're as much of a capitalist stooge as any "spoiler-phobe," and that goes for J Schreier's leaks as well. Just say you don't care lol, trying to make it into some moralistic thing is inherently hypocritical.

Oh and btw I made a Spoiler/Leak-Free E3 Thread for us unhealthy people here :)

 

[Johnny Cage itS]

Nope not just you... sounds like him trying to justify he is doing s public service in leaks taking place literally a couple of days before they will officially happen. Gotta get those hits and ad revenue afteralll

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Nope, you're not the only one...

Reposting myself:

person whose business makes money spoiling other businesses plans says his Robin Hood- then insults almost everyone (his audience, and the companies business and the hardworking people who work to surprise and delight said audiences)

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Thank you guys, good to see some here who see things from a view other than a "tabloid game journalism" angle.

I also added this to my original post...

Whoop dee fuckin doo gum shoe, you did some 'diggin' and got us some heads up on a project being developed by hundreds of hard working people for the past 3-4 years, about 24 hours ahead of it's official announcement schedule. Here's a cookie Jason for all your hard detective work that most of us self respecting adults never asked for!

 

[Armaros]

I mean there's not really much I think would need to be "changed," per se. People make events all the time and want them to be exciting and engaging. And when things like that, that have specific dates/times, are planned for, the people working on it want it to go smoothly and without a hitch. I don't think there's anything WRONG with companies making these bombastic announcements.

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That is every industry though. How a consumer product is revealed has massive implications. If you think the game industry is secretive try looking into the automotive industry.

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I dont think Apple Engineers go on twitter saying how sad they are that their lastest product got leaked by the press. Or people that buy smartphones saying "THINK ABOUT THE ENGINEERS NEXT TIME YOU LEAK".

Im sure they exist out in the ether of the internet, but they do not have any real voice like you see in the games community and the backlash about announcement leaks.

 

[Sean]

Right, people are going to experience it in different ways. Personally, it doesn't change much for me. If it affects you that way, then that's fine and I'm not going to argue the point. I just think that equivocating it to something akin to "spoilers" is a bit of a stretch.

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Sure, they're just leaks. I agree with that. I just want people to get why some are disappointed in them a little better.

 

[IIFloodyII]

Without the developers consent? Then they're mere parasites.

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Is Jason a parasite for reporting on the terrible conditions some dev teams go through with crunch because the publisher or every single dev didn't give consent? It's not a journalist job to only report on what the publishers want them to report about, ignoring leaks, because it doesn't have the seal of approval.

 

[Praetorpwj]

there's a Death on the Nile movie coming out in 2020?

fucking leaks

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Having watched the Peter Ustinov / David Niven version many times the very fact this movie exists is a huge spoiler to me...

 

[GTVision]

No it isn't. You can't berate journalists for doing their job.

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It's their job? Leaking information that would go public in let's say a few days just to take the spotlight and make a name for yourself? Nobody gaines anything with this except the leaker himself. Well, gaining, feeling good about themselves or whatever it is that drives them to do so.

 

[Frankie Williamson]

Without the developers consent? Then they're mere parasites.

Some journalism feeding off rumours, speculations and leaks.

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I think you need to take a step back and think a bit on this.

 

[LuckyLinus]

Spoil me all you want with game announcements. Getting mad over a title leak is dumb, you should really avoid all social media if you dont want to hear any news.

 

[gabdeg]

I can't remember a single instance of me being aware of any dev/publisher/platform person telling me leaks are bad. I just like surprises.

 

[Demacabre]

I think you need to take a step back and think a bit on this.

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Nope all news should be ran past the company in question before it hits the presses who can veto it. It's disrespectful of journalists to do otherwise. They are parasites.. ....
....
.....
what I am reading here? oh my god... This place may be very progressive in many many good ways but goddam.... what the fuck.

 

[Deleted member 51789]

I would love to see more games follow the RE2 route and announce development early and then make their content reveals a bit later on (although then you can get situations like Metroid Prime 4 where 'fans' scream that the game was announced way too early).

The leaking of actual marketing materials and trailers is disappointing though.

Also this.

If you love E3 surprises so much why the fuck are you on ResetEra the week before?

I watch Formula E and they put the full race on their YouTube channel a week after. You think I'm on the formula E reddit in that week?

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I get the point you're making but this isn't a great example considering the event has already happened during your media blackout.

 

[jbug617]

Just looking at the Bleeding Edge thread. A trailer leaked without any context about the game and people just shit on it.

Most of the leaks are not from journalists. It's mostly from places like 4ch and Reddit. It's not like they get paid for leaking info. They do it for internet notoriety.

 

[Plasma]

He's right, there were people freaking out on here over knowing the name of an unannounced game the other day, spoiler culture has gone way too far.

If there is a leak on the scale of MW3 where plot details, characters, locations, art and early assets all get published I can understand people getting upset but just publishing a story to say a game exists shouldn't be a big deal.

 

[Morrigan]

Like many, I can see where both sides are coming from, but ultimately I think I side with Jason.

Sure, it sucks for devs if their reveal isn't done how they wanted. I can totally get this argument.

But, for one, does it really harm them? And for two, if leaks are inevitable nowadays, perhaps it's time to adjust your marketing strategy?

I'm trying to remember instances where something truly major came out of nowhere at E3, some big "HOLY SHIT WHAT" moment that no one saw coming whatsoever, and I'm drawing a blank. Maybe And personally, all my most hyped E3 moments have been stuff that was leaked or at the very least, teased in advance, or something that I knew was in the work in some way. Bloodborne, Monster Hunter World, Horizon Zero Dawn.. when the trailers hit, I already knew about those games existing in some way, and it in no way took anything out of the excitement.

On the one hand, yes Jason is right

On the other, you cant really deny the impact of stuff like Sony's E3 2015. Also I'm sure any dev dreams of a moment like the Shenmue 3 reveal

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God of War reveal was one of the best i've ever seen, it would not be the same if it was spoiled before the event

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Both of those were leaked, though!

So was FF7Remake and The Last Guardian, and still people went apeshit at E3.

So.... 🤷‍♀️

There are people who get mad if you post a Souls boss name without tags

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To be fair that can totally be a spoiler.

Spoiler: Bloodborne, Sekiro

Something like Gehrman or Owl or Isshin being bosses are absolutely spoilers. "Gaping Dragon", not so much.

 

[Spyware]

It's pretty much exactly their job

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I'd care way more about game journalism as a whole of they completely dropped this part of their job. I wanna see game journalists report stuff like the THQ AMA and especially see them keeping the pressure on THQ to sort out the situation. I wanna see big stories on work environment and stuff like that, both good and bad. I want to see collected news about officially released info. I want to read personal anecdotes and opinion pieces.

The fact that they focus so much on leaks, especially close to the announcement, make me think less of the work and makes me not visit their sites much. It feels more like reading tabloid journalism. And it makes me sad.

 

[MrKlaw]

anyone who gets upset at being "spoiled" by just a leaked ANNOUNCEMENT is being absolutely fucking ridiculous

that's not a fucking spoiler lol

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I don't consider it a spo8ler for the thing that was leaked, but it has slightly spoiled the overall package of stuff in a conference if you know several of the things going in.

Yes it's cold corporate marketing - but there is something to be said for watching a stream live along with lots of others and experiencing the reveals as a collection of things.