J. Schreier: "Don't let billion dollar marketing convince you it's a spoiler" [See Threadmarks for further clarification]

[giapel]

Totally agree. It's stupid that game companies keep their projects secret .
I can understand it for specific game mechanics, setting, story elements and obviously hardware, but the project shouldn't be secret.
Rockstar: we're producing GTA VI. See you in 3 years. There, done.
Nintendo: we're making Zelda Botw2 then we're going to do a remake of minish cap. There. No confusion, no speculation.
If something is cancelled, say so. So we don't have to endlessly guess.
Such a silly thing this industry does.
The excitement should be about the content, not the announcement of the content.

 

[TheUnseenTheUnheard]

It's his job to report the news.

More interesting/noteworthy stories get more clicks.

Posting/confirming accurate news before other outlets means you are a good reporter and you are rewarded with page views.

I'm not sure what the argument is and you aren't the only one saying this.

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I'm done explaining myself just know you missed the point.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Since he essentially claimed during the Fallout 76 debacle that youtubers such as Jim Sterling who talk about predatory gaming practices and companies shipping incomplete or broken products were just unjustified outrage mobs and that pubs were justified in many of their practices because consumers dont really understand the industry they participate in.

While on the face of it, that's quite true for a lot of people. But on the other hand, its also very hypocritical to now suddenly try and tack a position as an anti industry consumer advocate. I agree with the sentiment he's talking about, just not from his mouth. He definitely knows the industry, but he's way too close to it to be unbiased.

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Hm, I don't remember that statement from him, but I believe you. Do you have a link to it specifically?

 

[IIFloodyII]

You'd be right, but I'm also fairly involved on social media (I have a couple pages). Hell, some major announcements and leaks occasionally get picked up by non-gaming news websites as well. And this isn't just about the last days, necessarily: I seek out leaks for most of the year, it's not something that bothers me too much looking into what devs are doing. But it's a whole different thing knowing time and date of a show, then a couple hours before that somebody leaks a low quality version of a trailer or the entire conference. I can obviously not watch it (and at this point I'll avoid most videos and screenshots probably), but I don't want to not have a single surprise come the conferences, that's all.

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I can understand it can be harder for some to just cut off and be able to avoid leaks, but again I think that's still on you, not others to avoid accidentally spoiling you and there's really not a solution to that if you can't stay out of those circles/off those sites .
Also I feel like if everything gets leaked, it's the corps fault for not doing a better job at keeping it all a secret, not the leakers or people talking about it's fault that people got spoiled. I know it's probably very hard to keep it all or even most under wrap, especially so in the days and hours leading up, but if they wanna hold back everything for E3 or wherever that's the risk they take.

 

[Zem]

Rather wait a few days or weeks for the surprise trailer than have some random steal the glory on twitter for some likes. Fuck leakers tbh.

 

[Remo Williams]

I'm liking this guy less and less. There's nothing like a good conference filled with new info about upcoming games. Yes, it's marketing, but it's also fun in a way that just publishing info on a website, in a video or wherever will never come close to.

Maybe we should cancel all the award ceremonies as well, just dump the info somewhere.

 

[vsabelle]

Hard disagree. We all love these announcements.

 

[Deleted member 2254]

I can understand it can be harder for some to just cut off and be able to avoid leaks, but again I think that's still on you, not others to avoid accidentally spoiling you and there's really not a solution to that.
Also I feel like if everything gets leaked, it's the corps fault for not doing a better job at keeping it all a secret, not the leakers or people talking about it's fault that people got spoiled. I know it's probably very hard to keep it all under wrap, especially so in the days and hours leading up, but if they wanna hold back everything for E3 or wherever that's the risk they take.

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But ultimately, if I don't want to see a spoiler and I see it, it doesn't make me happier that it's a corporate's fault and not mine. I actively seek out info and leaks so I know most of the things MS will show, for example, but I'm still ready to be surprised. I do think that leaking the full conference like in 2016 a few hours before the show is just being annoying for the sake of having 5 minutes of fame - that sort of leak does no good besides ruining it for everybody. Can't quote but a user said in another thread not long ago that he want to see a Sony presser live some years ago and he literally got a notification on his phone from a news app spoilering one thing he was gonna see in a couple minutes. Leaks in the final hours are just attention-seeking, they don't even have the time to bring the conversation forward.

 

[Deleted member 16657]

Era's Guide to E3

1. If you watch a single trailer that comes out you're complicit in contributing to exploitation of labor given that there is no ethical consumption under capitalism.
2. You stupid mark. How dare you. Don't you know games are a multibillion dollar business? You consumerist piece of shit.
3. Fuck them devs.
4. Spending hours daily to play, read and write about games is ok, but spending 2-3 days a year watching them means you're a fucking idiot.
5. There's no such thing as "surprise." The bourgeoisie made it up. For money.
6. WAKE UP SHEEPLE THEY'RE COMMERCIALS. YOU'RE BEING MINDHAAAAAACKED

 

[P A Z]

Imagine reading Jason's tweet as "you shouldn't be excited for new games".

Imagine being that disingenuous.

 

[Saint-14]

Leaks are great, bring everything you know Jason.

 

[Exist 2 Inspire]

Disagree, i always come together with friends to watch E3 and have a good time. How boring it would be if we would know everything that happens beforehand.

 

[Striferser]

I'm with Cory Balrog here
this is from someone who used to be in the development side though

 

[gschmidl]

It's almost as if this could be avoided if everyone ditched E3 and revealed ACTUALLY on their own terms.

 

[Pryme]

It's not the best example because I mainly use it for the KotH reference lol. My decision to get GoW had nothing to do with the reveal. All a reveal does is get me hyped and I put it on a wishlist then, after I've calmed down, I most likely remove it because I'm not that interested.

But I was waiting for MCC on PC for years and then Brad Sams leaked it a few days before the official announcement. I was still excited and still am. Just give me the info, I don't need a fancy, calculated reveal to make me interested in a game.

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There are two sides to the equation. The creators and the consumers. You're speaking only about your side as a consumer, without considering what devs feel about taking away the hype of their reveal event and getting a chance to shape the initial reveal.

You think any of the Ninja Theory devs would have been thrilled with the Bleeding Edge leak yesterday, as a low res, off screen video?

 

[Deleted member 45414]

I dream of a world with no leaks and only a month between announcement and release at most.

Alternatively, give us as close to full transparency on all projects in progress.

 

[IIFloodyII]

But ultimately, if I don't want to see a spoiler and I see it, it doesn't make me happier that it's a corporate's fault and not mine. I actively seek out info and leaks so I know most of the things MS will show, for example, but I'm still ready to be surprised. I do think that leaking the full conference like in 2016 a few hours before the show is just being annoying for the sake of having 5 minutes of fame - that sort of leak does no good besides ruining it for everybody. Can't quote but a user said in another thread not long ago that he want to see a Sony presser live some years ago and he literally got a notification on his phone from a news app spoilering one thing he was gonna see in a couple minutes. Leaks in the final hours are just attention-seeking, they don't even have the time to bring the conversation forward.

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I actually don't disagree, it's way I usually bounce off gaming sites or social media a few hours before a event if I plan to watch it, as at that point might as well just wait for actual reveal, but again 9/10 times I don't think it's hard to avoid those leaks. Though there can be exceptions and shit like what happened to that user or what usually fucks me (though with actual spoilers for the finished product, not marketing) YouTube's recommended videos. I also got a major God of War spoiler from ESRB once, which was annoying. I also absolutely feel for the people behind the E3 show/whatever when something like the Wallmart leak happens, that's just unfortunate.

 

[BlackJace]

Era's Guide to E3

1. If you watch a single trailer that comes out you're complicit in contributing to exploitation of labor given that there is no ethical consumption under capitalism.
2. You stupid mark. How dare you. Don't you know games are a multibillion dollar business? You consumerist piece of shit.
3. Fuck them devs.
4. Spending hours daily to play, read and write about games is ok, but spending 2-3 days a year watching them means you're a fucking idiot.
5. There's no such thing as "surprise." The bourgeoisie made it up. For money.
6. WAKE UP SHEEPLE THEY'RE COMMERCIALS. YOU'RE BEING MINDHAAAAAACKED

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I might just be speaking for myself here, but people actually don't give a shit if you're hyped about E3 surprises. It's fine. However, the article is saying that you are indeed eating out of the publisher's hand if you think that excitement/anticipation for a game relies solely on whether or not you were surprised by its initial, official announcement. Would you prefer to be surprised? Great, whatever. Just don't act like the game announcement is forever sullied because it got leaked.

 

[Deleted member 2652]

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These are two different subjects.

 

[JershJopstin]

Marketing has such a weird stigma in the gaming community, as if it's somehow inherently evil or dishonest. Yes, they're trying to sell you a product; but if you enjoy the product and find it worth the money, is that a bad thing?

Now, obviously, marketing can be intentionally misleading, I'm not saying it can't. But to claim that we shouldn't be upset about something because it's just hindering a marketing effort seems silly.

E3 in particular has become something of a social event for me. I'll never forget the way my friend lost his mind last year at "Everyone is here!", or my own series of emotions as I pieced together what was happening in the Metroid Prime 4 announcement right before the number actually came up. Those were in themselves fun moments, even if they were the result of marketing campaigns. To act like I'm somehow being duped if I feel I'm being robbed of those moments comes off as ignorant and insulting to my intelligence.

 

[Jhn]

This take is bad.

Trust me, I'm as much of an opponent of capitalism, corporate apologia and manipulative marketing as anyone else on this forum, but making this out to be some sort of consumer rights issue is absurd.
I avoid leaks because I get more enjoyment from E3 if I don't know what will be there beforehand.
I avoid leaks for *me*, not to protect the monetary interests of some fucking publisher.

"These evil megacorps don't want you to fuck up their marketing! Stick it to the man by reading leaks at our website! Also please click the ads!"
Ok Jason.

 

[Deleted member 2254]

I actually don't disagree, it's way I usually bounce of gaming sites or social media a few hours before a event if I plan to watch it, as at that point might as well just wait for actual reveal, but again 9/10 times I don't think it's hard to avoid those leaks. Though their can be exceptions and shit like what happened to that user or what usually fucks me (though with actual spoilers for the finished product, not marketing) YouTube's recommended videos. I also got a major God of War spoiler from ESRB once, which was annoying.

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I usually do that too. It's muscle memory at this point because I follow a lot of sports events, and it's entirely possible I'm not at home when it happens, so I'm used to avoiding platforms that could reveal anything. But it's never easy, and notifications and such can ruin it anyways.

One memorable anecdote was when I was out for the afternoon during a match I wanted to watch, so I put it on DVR as I got home more or less with 10 minutes to go. I avoided all spoilers around town from radios, TVs or general chats: nice. Then I park the car, and as I walk towards the house, I hear two guys watching the match on streaming on their phone, with one of them saying "wow, Ronaldo really won this match for 'em, he already scored twice". Thankyouverymuch.jpg

 

[DeadlyVenom]

How dare these people try to extract joy from suspense and surprise. Don't they know it's all marketing? I'm glad I'm so smugly above it all.

 

[Justsomeguy]

Wow, I've got a lot of time for Jason normally, but gatekeeping what a spoiler is?...

Nah mate. If I want to sit back and enjoy a couple of hours of PR and marketing and get excited about it, that's my decision. Anything that spoils my anticipation & enjoyment is, well, a spoiler.

 

[Deleted member 16657]

I might just be speaking for myself here, but people actually don't give a shit if you're hyped about E3 surprises. It's fine. However, the article is saying that you are indeed eating out of the publisher's hand if you think that excitement/anticipation for a game relies solely on whether or not you were surprised by its initial, official announcement.

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And therefore, a poor dumb mark, unable to comprehend the eternal class struggle, simply releasing dopamine in response to visual and audio stimulation

 

[TheAvatar]

People like to be surprised, and no it's not just a gaming thing, surprise drops from the music industry is also becoming increasingly popular due to people listening without expectations, tyler the creator, Beyoncé, eminem, have all done it recently with great success. It works, and it allows the artist not to drive expectations to high by a constant ad campaign/hype started by fans before they even listen to song on a album.

You could argue it's marketing, but I think it allows for better responses to the art

 

[Deleted member 16657]

This take is bad.

Trust me, I'm as much of an opponent of capitalism, corporate apologia and manipulative marketing as anyone else on this forum, but making this out to be some sort of consumer rights issue is absurd.
I avoid leaks because I get more enjoyment from E3 if I don't know what will be there beforehand.
I avoid leaks for *me*, not to protect the monetary interests of some fucking publisher.

"These evil megacorps don't want you to fuck up their marketing! Stick it to the man by reading leaks at our website! Also please click the ads!"
Ok Jason.

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That's what the corporations want you to believe. You think you watch E3 out of your own free will? Just try not to. Resistance is futile.

 

[aevanhoe]

This.
What the hell is Barlog talking about?

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He's talking how a reveal can be a creative effort that people put work and time into and how it can be ruined by spoilers. Sure, it's marketing, but it can also be a great fan moment. I was glad the TLOU Part II reveal wasn't leaked, for example, the reveal itself was really cool. I understand Schreirer wants you to think reveals are just some corporate tactic, but he's ignoring the fandom part, the surprise & delight part and the part where actual creatives are working hard on these things to make them epic. Just think about it (in regards to the Twitter exchange between these two): one is a journalist who leaks things as a part of his job, the other one is a creative who makes products for people to enjoy - of course they will have different views on the matter. But as a fan, I'm totally with Cory on this one.

That's what the corporations want you to believe. You think you watch E3 out of your own free will? Just try not to. Resistance is futile.

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Erm, yes, I watch E3 out of my free will because I'm interested in it. My wife isn't, so she doesn't watch it - for example.

 

[BlackJace]

And therefore, a poor dumb mark, unable to comprehend the eternal class struggle, simply releasing dopamine in response to visual and audio stimulation

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Sarcasm aside, do you believe any games that were recently leaked have had their potential sales/excitement negatively impacted?
Do you really think that people who now know that Elden Ring exists (woah sorry people, spoilers!) are now less likely to be interested in it?

Y'all wonder why this medium never gets taken seriously it's cuz y'all still want to be treated like you're adolescents when it comes to this stuff. Literally every other medium (TV, movie, music) doesn't care about leaks "ruining" the experience. The mere existence of something doesn't make it lesser just because the publisher didn't want you to see it at that specific time.

 

[Deleted member 40133]

Besides the obvious Hollywood point that movies are known YEARS in advance and it actually just serves to self perpetuate its own social media marketing. Speculation videos, predictions, think pieces etc. Let's keep it in the realm of games, we know that pokemon is coming every year like clock work. Still one of, it not the most hyped franchises year in year out

 

[Deleted member 364]

People should just be honest with themselves. Schreier and his peers make money/get attention/build up their names by reporting behind the scenes shit and leaks.

And the people who say they prefer leaks to reveals basically lack patience. And I'm no different. I SAY i'd rather be surprised but I end up reading leaks just like everyone else. But truth is, a reveal surprise at E3 is the best. Shenmue 3 reveal for example would have been so much shittier if we knew about it a week in advance.

 

[SapientWolf]

There's something magical about huddling into a live announcement thread as the bombs are dropping. It's a much more enjoyable experience than the slow drip of leaks in the lead up to E3.

But leaks equate to clicks so I can't blame the media for capitalizing.

 

[SuperRaddy]

Yeah, this is bullshit Jason.... I for one like the surprise at the conferences... I don't mind hearing about a game title or whatever. But when leaks come with screenshot and/or gameplay footage it just spoils the reveal of the game. It should be upto the devs/publishers when they do that reveal. Rather than insiders/journalists trying to one up each other and leak the information first for hits on their relevant web site.

There is nothing wrong with things being clouded in secrecy until the devs/publishers want it too. This is NOT the movie industry and things don't HAVE to be the same.

To use an analogy...

When you were a kid it was much nicer to open presents on Xmas day and be surprised than go around your house hunting for where your parents hid them so you could have an early look

With Cory on this one

 

[tarantullama]

Should people not care about spoilers for blockbuster movies/tv shows/books/games either? Caring about them just feeds right into the marketing plans of multi-billion dollar companies as well.
I don't think people should be upset with Jason for doing his job but I also don't think you should shame people for wanting to be surprised by their medium of choice.

 

[Stop It]

I'm with Jason.

Most film studios announce projects when they start. Knowing the project exists doesn't stop people from bring excited to see the first trailers.

Games are in development for sometimes years before they're officially announced. People won't mind the film model, honestly. Being told a project exists isn't a bad thing and takes nothing away from an initial trailer.

The game industry obsession with announcements requiring a trailer and thus making knowledge of a project a "spoiler" is not good.

 

[Tarot Deck]

Eh, the announcement surprise is fun. Who cares if that's part of the marketing?

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This. I love the hype.

Unless it's something like Metroid Prime 4, that ended up being remade from scratch.

Hide until have something to show.

 

[IIFloodyII]

I usually do that too. It's muscle memory at this point because I follow a lot of sports events, and it's entirely possible I'm not at home when it happens, so I'm used to avoiding platforms that could reveal anything. But it's never easy, and notifications and such can ruin it anyways.

One memorable anecdote was when I was out for the afternoon during a match I wanted to watch, so I put it on DVR as I got home more or less with 10 minutes to go. I avoided all spoilers around town from radios, TVs or general chats: nice. Then I park the car, and as I walk towards the house, I hear two guys watching the match on streaming on their phone, with one of them saying "wow, Ronaldo really won this match for 'em, he already scored twice". Thankyouverymuch.jpg

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Oh, I can relate to that, happened to me a few weeks ago with the Liverpool vs Barca game, thought someone was getting killed at first, ran over and saw a bunch of drunk people singing and dancing, singing about how Liverpool are going to another CL final. Definitely a "well... fuck, that's ruined my plans" moment.

 

[AgeEighty]

I get enjoying that sculpted, manicured surprise E3 reveal, but come on... at this point this is just the industry and fans striving to cling to a format that is in its death throes. These choreographed stage shows are going away and it's about time.

I get Barlog's point that the leaks compromise the hard work of a bunch of people, but the question he doesn't ask or answer is why all that hard work is necessary to market a game. Surprise is kind of fun but it shouldn't be as integral to marketing as it is in this industry. As someone else said, movies are revealed years before the first trailers appear and it doesn't ruin anything for them.

 

[Mitth'raw'nuruodo]

Disagree, i always come together with friends to watch E3 and have a good time. How boring it would be if we would know everything that happens beforehand.

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Same for me. Would ruin a lot of the E3 fun.

 

[Deleted member 8593]

As much as I despise the weaponization of fan hype and think that every person in PR and marketing has spawned from a three headed hellspider, sometimes it's just fun to watch an E3 and be surprised. Even though I haven't felt that way in ages.

 

[Ryuichi Naruhodo]

I am not sure If I agree with this , It isnt about Hype , but Companies have people hired and spend money so that the announcements are presented in a certain way they believe will benefit them the most , there is a not small chance that a leak would lower that benefit and be damaging for them depending on how it is presented and due to the fact that the full picture isnt present at all and it isnt the first initial reveal for the way that the company intended

 

[TheAvatar]

I get enjoying that sculpted, manicured surprise E3 reveal, but come on... at this point this is just the industry and fans striving to cling to a format that is in its death throes. These choreographed stage shows are going away and it's about time.

I get Barlog's point that the leaks compromise the hard work of a bunch of people, but the question he doesn't ask or answer is why all that hard work is necessary to market a game. Surprise is kind of fun but it shouldn't be as integral to marketing as it is in this industry. As someone else said, movies are revealed years before the first trailers appear and it doesn't ruin anything for them.

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In what ways are they going away? E3 broke records last year, Nintendo directs are pretty much e3 to Nintendo fans and are way more popular now

 

[TheKeyPit]

If I know about everything before E3 happens, why bother with the concept of E3?

I want to get surprised.

 

[-shadow-]

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*glances in the direction of Final Fantasy VII*

 

[StrangerSphinx]

I agree with Cory on this one, I for one don't mind getting spoiled by leaks but to be honest I rather be surprised and be shown at the way the developers wanted to. To those that don't agree, I suggest watching Raising Kratos. It really shows the hard work and stress that the team poured into revealing the new God Of War.

IMO, just have patience.

 

[Raccoon]

This is always the most "nofunallowed.jpg" take

 

[Ethifury]

Yes. THANK YOU.

I never understood the whole "Gamer Christmas" thing that some peeps liked to prop E3 as, or even with Directs. We're talking about commercials and PR events that may have cheering sections, and all of which are geared to get people ready to plop down money on preorders.

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Directs are an entirely different thing compared to E3. E3 isn't what it used to be, with how evolved the Internet is. Nintendo Directs/State of Play are better in anticipation because Sony and Nintendo always release top notch exclusives versus the vast majority of titles in the industry that deals with launch bugs, visual downgrades among many other issues. The only things I really look forward to with anticipation is Gamer Awards and Sony/Nintendo Directs imo.

 

[Trike]

I can get why developers are upset. They are having their big reveal moment stolen from them. But if it's leaked it's leaked, you can't put it back. Fans are just mad because it ruins their fun surprise. Which is dumb, because everyone knows the best way to watch those conferences is with unreasonable expectations so you can get irrationally angry when it doesn't come close to reaching them. I call this the "Direct Effect".

 

[Serebii]

The thing is that, over the past 15 or so years, E3 conferences, Nintendo Directs and their ilk have all been positioned not just as a form of marketing but entertainment, even by the games media with them doing things like Bingo sheets and so forth.

Complaining that people then complain when the industry and media positioned them to be entertainment as well seems a bit illogical to me.

Plus leaks are disrespectful to the developers. Imagine you were creating a sculpture and had set a date to unveil it, only for some asshat looking for Twitter clout posted it and usurped your unveil. Leaks often don't show the whole picture and create a first impression that can often be hard to move on from.

 

[Tarot Deck]

This is always the most "nofunallowed.jpg" take

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I used to take Jason seriously in the past, but I have yet to see something worthwhile from him in the last couple of years.