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J. Schreier: "Don't let billion dollar marketing convince you it's a spoiler" [See Threadmarks for further clarification]
- Thread starter Musubi
- Start date
And how exactly would simply waiting for the press conference to end, and reading about or watching media for the announcements result in a difference experience?
For me E3 is watching the press conferences as it's car crash tv.
"Billion dollar corporate marketing" - um, which company is spending a billion dollars on a game announcement? It's usually the game development team and a couple executives that think of cool ways to reveal games.
For me, I just had one moment that I consider spoiled that I really wish hadn't been - Final Fantasy VII Remake. The leak wasn't definite, but still, it made me guess with every trailer if it was FFVII or not, and when it was, I wasn't excited about it, I was like "Oh, the leak was real. Neat."
For me, I just had one moment that I consider spoiled that I really wish hadn't been - Final Fantasy VII Remake. The leak wasn't definite, but still, it made me guess with every trailer if it was FFVII or not, and when it was, I wasn't excited about it, I was like "Oh, the leak was real. Neat."
... I don't get it. That's the point. It's fun... Who cares if it's marketing or not. We enjoy it.
Wow I had no idea that trailers were commercials. Thanks man, keep it up
I completely agree with this. IMO the leaks only affect those crappy announcements where they only show the logo.
Who the hell cares about the games?!?!?!
Everything in entertainment needs to leak so people stop being so goddamn whiny about the most minuscule 'spoiler'.
Please explain this. How does revealing the game on your own terms (usually at least a year before release) hurt game devs and consumers? Why is it a bad thing if it helps publishers, who are a very critical cog in gaming ?
You think the frenzy around the Ninja Theory Bleeding Edge leak helped the NT devs? Or even helped consumers ?
Well, you see, people spent money on making other people get excited. That means no one is allowed to get excited.
Guys Spoilers For E3
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The phrase CONSOLE EXCLUSIVE will pop up several times at the Microsoft Press Event
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The phrase CONSOLE EXCLUSIVE will pop up several times at the Microsoft Press Event
It's not the best example because I mainly use it for the KotH reference lol. My decision to get GoW had nothing to do with the reveal. All a reveal does is get me hyped and I put it on a wishlist then, after I've calmed down, I most likely remove it because I'm not that interested.
But I was waiting for MCC on PC for years and then Brad Sams leaked it a few days before the official announcement. I was still excited and still am. Just give me the info, I don't need a fancy, calculated reveal to make me interested in a game.
It's his job to report the news.
More interesting/noteworthy stories get more clicks.
Posting/confirming accurate news before other outlets means you are a good reporter and you are rewarded with page views.
I'm not sure what the argument is and you aren't the only one saying this.
Given that Kotaku has been blacklisted by major gaming corps like Ubi and Bethesda, its easy to see why Jason thinks of them as the enemy.
capitalism VERY bad
All media industries don't have to be the same, just because its done one way for movies doesn't mean it needs to be the same for games. And frankly, its just not done the same anyways so the comparisons don't work imo.
Sometimes, leaks spoil that fun and excitement jason mentioned in his first line. Sometimes, a good surprise garners the greatest hype. There's nothing wrong with the hype people feel from a surprise announcement at E3 or other shows. This is how megatons happen.
Sometimes, leaks spoil that fun and excitement jason mentioned in his first line. Sometimes, a good surprise garners the greatest hype. There's nothing wrong with the hype people feel from a surprise announcement at E3 or other shows. This is how megatons happen.
This is entirely on you though as films are announced years before those previews are even storyboarded. Like, surprise, Dismey has a live-action Mulan coming, another Guardians of the Galaxy, and Avatar 2 through 4 are already announced.
Game devs just need to accept that if the mere existence of their product needs to be shrouded in such secrecy to sell, they need better reveal demos.
People reacting to a surprise is human nature. That's why it's exploitative marketing. Changing the way games are developed and marketed so that surprise reveals don't exist or are relegated to the nature of a game rather than its existence is what I'm sure Jason is implicitly advocating for here and I agree. Get rid of the toxicity and abuse that ails the industry on all sides, and people will realize it's only opacity to hide the abusive way games are made and protect from toxic fans who are too obsessive and entitled.
Jason is 100% correct.
But he is aware of the hard work that goes on behind the scenes. He literally just wrote a whole book about it.
Simple and easy to understand. Instead we get people championing attention whores ruining a reveal for Internet brownie points and follows lmao.
NOOOOO MY E3 IS RUINNED
I bought all these Cheetos and Mountain Dew and a #gamer chair for NOTHING
Secrecy hurts game devs because it keeps their work in the dark. Think about Next Level making Metroid Prime: Federation Force. THe reveal of that game killed its chances because it was so against what people wanted when they saw Metroid Prime. The game never recovered.
Secrecy also hurts devs who have to crunch to make a deadline that is set and with no transparency people freak out if there's a delay (Schreier himself got death threats for saying a game would be delayed three weeks!). Secrecy hurts everybody except the publishers who maintain control over the devs and the consumer through their control of information.
Jason's right. It's hard for people to admit, because gaming makes everyone feel like a kid again. And E3 feels like some kind of gamer holiday. I buy into that some, but I'm also frustrated by the ridiculous amount of secrecy in the gaming industry.
I guess i'm lucky then because i didn't see any of those leaks before the reveal lol
I don't think this conversation is cut and dry, and I think acting like it is does a disservice to the individuals impacted by leaks and what their reasoning is.
On one hand, yes, events like E3 and the unusual secrecy around titles within this industry are absolutely, first and foremost, tailored around marketing. "Hype events" in this case exist predominantly to drive sales, hence why so many games go up for pre-order coincidentally around the time of big event reveals, announcements, magazine features, etc. Marketing arms want impulsive purchasing based on emotionally driven irrationality, which is also why many E3 trailers are vertical slices pushed out by the dev team at the publisher's behest despite not necessarily being a mechanical or visual indication of how the final game will look.
I'm also very much in the camp of this industry being way too secretive, E3 itself an outdated platform, and prefer "announcements" to be spread out throughout the year. I don't get any more hyped for a big E3 announcement than I do a Nintendo Direct several months prior, or some other countdown and reveal by a developer any other time of the year.
That being said, despite its capitalistic enterprise and the insidious nature of marketing arms, entertainment is entertainment and creative arts are generally fuelled by people who want to create a work of expression and enjoyment first, billion dollar money maker second. Build-up, reveal, and celebration of announcements, information, and displays of entertainment and/or intrigue is a cultural thing, not a marketing thing. It is a human thing, that almost if not every culture in the world exhibits in some form. Whether it be the reveal of a new work of art at a gallery or event, a band playing a new track at a gig, a talented director or performing announcing their involvement in a film or TV series, confirmation of a pregnancy or engagement, the giving of gifts either impromptu or for a traditional celebration, and so on and so forth. It is human nature for us to enjoy revelling in the build-up to, or surprise announcement of, something that we intend to draw enjoyment and entertainment from.
So I feel the real issue is the intent of big events like E3, but also the intent of leaks and more importantly their execution. It's one thing to argue that the industry needs to stop being secretive and that a leak doesn't take away the impact of a reveal, but it's dismissive to say that build-up to a reveal has only manipulative, marketing purposes and there's no way any developer and creative team would enjoy the celebratory nature of surprise. There has to be a middle ground, because I can guarantee there are developers out there who tease title reveals with countdowns and whatnot primarily not because of marketing, but because they're really proud of their creative work and know their audience will be excited to see it too.
Many games are revealed for the first time at big events, or through hyped countdowns and whatnot, that don't have pre-orders attached. I was wonderfully surprised and overjoyed when Square-Enix revealed that Yoko Taro and Platinum were working on a new Nier, and it was just a slideshow of art, pleasant music, and dev titles. That's it. No pre-order, no formal name, no game footage. And it was nice that it was so unexpected, and not just some dude on twitter leaking "lol platinum x taro here's the logo art seeya at e3 ;) ".
On one hand, yes, events like E3 and the unusual secrecy around titles within this industry are absolutely, first and foremost, tailored around marketing. "Hype events" in this case exist predominantly to drive sales, hence why so many games go up for pre-order coincidentally around the time of big event reveals, announcements, magazine features, etc. Marketing arms want impulsive purchasing based on emotionally driven irrationality, which is also why many E3 trailers are vertical slices pushed out by the dev team at the publisher's behest despite not necessarily being a mechanical or visual indication of how the final game will look.
I'm also very much in the camp of this industry being way too secretive, E3 itself an outdated platform, and prefer "announcements" to be spread out throughout the year. I don't get any more hyped for a big E3 announcement than I do a Nintendo Direct several months prior, or some other countdown and reveal by a developer any other time of the year.
That being said, despite its capitalistic enterprise and the insidious nature of marketing arms, entertainment is entertainment and creative arts are generally fuelled by people who want to create a work of expression and enjoyment first, billion dollar money maker second. Build-up, reveal, and celebration of announcements, information, and displays of entertainment and/or intrigue is a cultural thing, not a marketing thing. It is a human thing, that almost if not every culture in the world exhibits in some form. Whether it be the reveal of a new work of art at a gallery or event, a band playing a new track at a gig, a talented director or performing announcing their involvement in a film or TV series, confirmation of a pregnancy or engagement, the giving of gifts either impromptu or for a traditional celebration, and so on and so forth. It is human nature for us to enjoy revelling in the build-up to, or surprise announcement of, something that we intend to draw enjoyment and entertainment from.
So I feel the real issue is the intent of big events like E3, but also the intent of leaks and more importantly their execution. It's one thing to argue that the industry needs to stop being secretive and that a leak doesn't take away the impact of a reveal, but it's dismissive to say that build-up to a reveal has only manipulative, marketing purposes and there's no way any developer and creative team would enjoy the celebratory nature of surprise. There has to be a middle ground, because I can guarantee there are developers out there who tease title reveals with countdowns and whatnot primarily not because of marketing, but because they're really proud of their creative work and know their audience will be excited to see it too.
Many games are revealed for the first time at big events, or through hyped countdowns and whatnot, that don't have pre-orders attached. I was wonderfully surprised and overjoyed when Square-Enix revealed that Yoko Taro and Platinum were working on a new Nier, and it was just a slideshow of art, pleasant music, and dev titles. That's it. No pre-order, no formal name, no game footage. And it was nice that it was so unexpected, and not just some dude on twitter leaking "lol platinum x taro here's the logo art seeya at e3 ;) ".
Some more dev perspectives on here. This stuff isnt as harmless has some of you think
Dude, I couldn't tell you the name of anyone that leaked any of the stuff today. No one is doing what you're suggesting.
Leaks sucks for devs.
Consumers are free to empathize.
Consumers acting like their whole E3 is ruined because of leaks is what we're criticizing.
Max bad. Reveal marketing is clearly very different from the marketing that comes out post release; that stuff is all free. Therefore, it is ok to get excited about it, as it is untainted by sinful money.
Alright, I'll talk a little more about why I don't like leaks. I accept them, they happen, and they're going to keep happening, but I don't like them.
I do not believe they've ruined E3 for anyone ever, that's pretty out there. However, they change E3 and they can lessen it.
For me it's not about the specific games and companies there. I won't buy most of them or care about most of them afterwards. It's about the communal experience of all of us around the world seeing a live event together and watching new things for the first time. That's where the fun comes from. I just want us to all experience that shit together at the same time and watch a fun show and see some shit we've never seen. That's why I like it, 'cause we're all just having a big dumb party.
E3 itself could never sell me on a game alone. I'm old enough to know my tastes and what I like and I can tell almost immediately if I'll care or not regardless of when, where, and how you show it to me. The idea that we're all just buying into this for marketing hype bullshit is reductive to all of us just wanting to enjoy a fun show together and just share having fun with games.
Leaks won't and can't ruin that for the people who enjoy it that way, but they do change it, and some of us don't want to have to bury our head in the sand and cut off contact with everyone, because that's not worth doing just to avoid them and never will be. I'd never ask a journalist to not report on it, and I get stuff happens like Security Breaches and things go to shit, just know that it sucks *just a little bit*.
I do not believe they've ruined E3 for anyone ever, that's pretty out there. However, they change E3 and they can lessen it.
For me it's not about the specific games and companies there. I won't buy most of them or care about most of them afterwards. It's about the communal experience of all of us around the world seeing a live event together and watching new things for the first time. That's where the fun comes from. I just want us to all experience that shit together at the same time and watch a fun show and see some shit we've never seen. That's why I like it, 'cause we're all just having a big dumb party.
E3 itself could never sell me on a game alone. I'm old enough to know my tastes and what I like and I can tell almost immediately if I'll care or not regardless of when, where, and how you show it to me. The idea that we're all just buying into this for marketing hype bullshit is reductive to all of us just wanting to enjoy a fun show together and just share having fun with games.
Leaks won't and can't ruin that for the people who enjoy it that way, but they do change it, and some of us don't want to have to bury our head in the sand and cut off contact with everyone, because that's not worth doing just to avoid them and never will be. I'd never ask a journalist to not report on it, and I get stuff happens like Security Breaches and things go to shit, just know that it sucks *just a little bit*.
To be fair that game would've been railed against regardless of how it was presented to us. As good/fun as it might've been, it just wasn't something the public was clamoring for.
This, it is more like justification to what I do it not that Bad take.
Most people here can say what ever they want, people who work on that game want a special 1st reveal and want to see the reaction.
I see how SSM or Sony hype about God of war reveal reaction. It is special for them.
It might be advertising but it is more personal for dev.
While leaking and validate the leak, they also should keep the mouth shut from tweets like this. It is embarrassing when u try to justifying leaks before fucking 2 days of reveal.
I like surprises like game reveals. I don't get surprised much, so can I have that one thing?
Why ruin it for people that want the surprise? Entitled people who want everything their way and frak everyone else who doesn't agree with them. It's very selfish honestly.
Why ruin it for people that want the surprise? Entitled people who want everything their way and frak everyone else who doesn't agree with them. It's very selfish honestly.
For all I care E3 could be a boring Excel sheet with the name of the game and its release date. Everything else is marketing fluff.
I love how this is said without a hint of irony/self reflection
Some of you are assuming that everyone likes things the same way you do. You have to understand that for a lot of us, the first impression and surprise is not the reason we enjoy hearing or talking about games.
Stop telling us that the reveal is "THE BEST PART" of anything. No one shares your exact values.
Remember: the onus is on YOU to avoid spoilers not us.
Here are some real tips:
Set up filters on Twitter to avoid posts that contain words like "leak" "early" or "trailer" and make sure to also set filters for series you enjoy like "Mario" or "Splinter Cell"
Unfollow certain game websites or blogs or overly eager fans/Friends from Facebook, Twitter, Resetera.
Resetera itself has some features that help with this.
Ask a friend. Have a friend help you avoid spoilers by steering you away from websites, links, videos, posts that might spoil something for you.
Stay vigilante because if you aren't even trying to avoid spoilers then I don't want to see you complaining.
Stop telling us that the reveal is "THE BEST PART" of anything. No one shares your exact values.
Remember: the onus is on YOU to avoid spoilers not us.
Here are some real tips:
Set up filters on Twitter to avoid posts that contain words like "leak" "early" or "trailer" and make sure to also set filters for series you enjoy like "Mario" or "Splinter Cell"
Unfollow certain game websites or blogs or overly eager fans/Friends from Facebook, Twitter, Resetera.
Resetera itself has some features that help with this.
Ask a friend. Have a friend help you avoid spoilers by steering you away from websites, links, videos, posts that might spoil something for you.
Stay vigilante because if you aren't even trying to avoid spoilers then I don't want to see you complaining.
Jason's extended beliefs on reporting on leaks.
it's remarkable to see how many people seem to be okay with the idea of taking away the control about the moment of surprise, reveal and excitement from those who put years and millions into something and leave it to some dork who cannot hold the water.
Guess its just a fundamental difference of opinion. I know that me personally, seeing a headline and seeing a game revealed live are two very different things. Its just how I emotionally engage with the matter. Difference is, I'm not out here belittling people that don't mind leaks as soulless socialist robots or something.
Why do you think its ridiculous? For many, some of the excitement around the E3 conference is to get surprised with new games. If you know about every, or many of the announcements in advance, that element is gone. That doesnt mean that people dont want to see the trailers etc., but it does remove some element of surprise.