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Hugare

Banned
Aug 31, 2018
1,853
It's literally his job to publish information he knows is accurate.

You think he gets a bonus in his end of year pay package for telling us about a game early?
And you really think he doesn't by telling us about it before everyone else?

Havent you noticed that Jason is famous because of his leaks? That's why he posts "hm" in a game speculation thread and everyone jumps to conclusions.

You are being naive if you think that he has nothing to gain with leaks
 

Sean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,591
Longview
Because some news comes out that isn't leaks. I'd just prefer if a "Leak General" was released that I can ignore.

Would be nice if we could just have a E3 Leaks Thread so we could talk with other people about all the video games in the world without a bunch of Thread Titles spoiling everything. If I wanted to be spoiled on everything I would indeed go to Kotaku, but I don't and I still want to talk to people about video games on video game forum.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,206
Because some news comes out that isn't leaks. I'd just prefer if a "Leak General" was released that I can ignore.
I disagree, I feel those big catch all threads are usually shit for discussion and the site shouldn't have to work around people not wanting a marketing show spoiled.
 

TheUnseenTheUnheard

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 25, 2018
9,647
It's literally his job to publish information he knows is accurate.

You think he gets a bonus in his end of year pay package for telling us about a game early?
I think he's just pointing out that someone who benefits from the leaks in terms of income is telling others they should be okay with leaks. And getting more traffic for articles most definitely affects pay.
 
Nov 2, 2017
6,836
Shibuya
Even if they are glorified ads, I can't deny that I have a lot of fun seeing new games presented in surprising or exciting ways at these events. I definitely think people need to check themselves before putting money down but I do like the show aspect.
 

ry-dog

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,180
I really don't like this argument, seems super reductive to reduce E3 press conferences to just "marketing". Games are just toys designed to get you to buy more toys....

It's exciting to see a bucket load of games being announced at once. It gives developers a platform to reveal what they've been working so hard on. It's a lot more human than dropping text and trailer out of no where - people coming together to get surprised, makes for stronger more passionate discourse.

But to be honest, I don't think leaks matter too much. Gameplay reveals are the most exciting, and those are still rarely leaked
 

JABEE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,901
Reporters report the news.

Multi-billion dollar companies announcing/working on new titles is news.

No respectable independent NFL beat reporter would shy away from "spoiling" a draft pick even though it ruins some of the "fun."

Calling them "spoilers" gives publishers a direct un-critical line to fans to jam on the pre-order button knowing the inertia of doing so has huge financial ramifications.

Not reporting is the opposite of what any reporter outside of this particular industry would do.
 

Demacabre

Member
Nov 20, 2017
2,058
I think he's just pointing out that someone who benefits from the leaks in terms of income is telling others they should be okay with leaks. And getting more traffic for articles most definitely affects pay.

Technically all reporters for any publication/news sations benefits from the traffic or viewership they get for reporting on accurate news... soooo... where are we going with this?
 

Tzarscream

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,945
And you really think he doesn't by telling us about it before everyone else?

Havent you noticed that Jason is famous because of his leaks? That's why he posts "hm" in a game speculation thread and everyone jumps to conclusions.
I think Jason is more celebrated for his indepth exposés on industry practices than leaks. He also gets these leaks due to his sources that have been cultivated over years of good journalism.
 

Dymaxion

Member
Sep 19, 2018
1,138
I would be very receptive to publishers letting us know which games are being made and who is making them years before the first reveal trailer. It's less stressful
 

Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,124
All I can say is this reveal and reaction would never have been the same had it been leaked/revealed beforehand:

Well for one Nintendo doesn't do live presentations anymore so that type of reaction is never happening again, but for two isn't Twilight Princess, and really Zelda in general, the poster child for why this process is so dumb. As a series everyone knows Nintendo is working on the next one, it's never really a surprise. Specifically looking at Twilight Princess though, it's a game that has this huge surprise reveal, then proceeded to have a very protracted development cycle where minimal information was released and eventually upon release a large chunk of people weren't happy because it didn't live up to the absurd hype Nintendo created around that original trailer. Oh and let's not forget that this was all precipitated by Nintendo "surprising" fans with Wind Waker in the first place.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,728
I think he's just pointing out that someone who benefits from the leaks in terms of income is telling others they should be okay with leaks. And getting more traffic for articles most definitely affects pay.
Didn't Schreier leak Overwatch 2 and Diablo 4 on Resetera first? And other leaks happen on twitter, which isn't directly monetizable.

You really think him posting leaks isn't feeding into the hype machine? Haha ok
Well, it is, but not in a way that publishers want, which is the important part.
 
OP
OP
Musubi

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,744
Might be just me but it sounds like everything that Jason Schreier says nowadays is taken as the absolute truth and as a lesson to be learned by this forum.

The man has an actual journalism degree and has been working in the field for years when it comes to reporting on things I'd say he probably knows better than most on here for sure.
 

Tzarscream

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,945
I think he's just pointing out that someone who benefits from the leaks in terms of income is telling others they should be okay with leaks. And getting more traffic for articles most definitely affects pay.
I suppose then CNN should start running stories 3 days later so that people can get their stories straight for interviews.

Honestly these accusations of money hungry clickbait journalists are absolutely ridiculous and symptomous of how much influence marketing has in this industry.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
Well for one Nintendo doesn't do live presentations anymore so that type of reaction is never happening again, but for two isn't Twilight Princess, and really Zelda in general, the poster child for why this process is so dumb. As a series everyone knows Nintendo is working on the next one, it's never really a surprise. Specifically looking at Twilight Princess though, it's a game that has this huge surprise reveal, then proceeded to have a very protracted development cycle where minimal information was released and eventually upon release a large chunk of people weren't happy because it didn't live up to the absurd hype Nintendo created around that original trailer. Oh and let's not forget that this was all precipitated by Nintendo "surprising" fans with Wind Waker in the first place.
Damn ... My dude went in.
 

Quintus

Enlightened
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,743
J. Schreier: "Don't let million dollar journalism convince you its a leak" - oops
 

TheUnseenTheUnheard

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 25, 2018
9,647
I suppose then CNN should start running stories 3 days later so that people can get their stories straight for interviews.

Honestly these accusations of money hungry clickbait journalists are absolutely ridiculous and symptomous of how much influence marketing has in this industry.
Point missed.
 

Callibretto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,534
Indonesia
I never said people can't be excited for a game; placing value in the marketing announcement of a product is ludicrous though.
Eh, people watch trailers for games they like multiple times. Disney charge money for fan event and not make the trailers/clip there public for months. It's all part of the marketing cycle and people do pay money just to see those.

I don't think saying marketing announcement have no value is that accurate. Just my opinion
 

Gobias-Ind

Member
Nov 22, 2017
4,032
"Jason is biased because journalists nefariously profit off the publishing of news"

Motherfuckers need therapy I swear
 

Complicated

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,370
Nobody is saying you can't like exploitative marketing like surprise reveals or bait and switches. They're just saying it's fucked up and a symptom of a lot that is still fucked up with the games industry. Posting examples of how fucked up it is as if the hype and cringe is not the fucked up part is exactly the mentality that is being pointed out here. It's accepted as normal in the industry when it is not normal or well-adjusted at all.
 

Deleted member 23046

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,876
While I can understand the point of view of workers, companies also abuse of controlled leaks, promoted rumors and endorsed influencers and their "analysis" weeks or even month before announcements. It's a double-edged strategy, because for a kilogram of chimerical buzz, you legitimate such way to communicate with your audience.
 

Danzflor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,710
Since Jason Schreier seems like a main point of this thread I'll just say this: I have never seen him as "the leaky guy". His whole leaking news
it's mostly a side effect from the actual job he does, that is reporting and deep investigate stuff, as a good journalist should do. There have been very few of his stories when the revelation of a new game is actually the focus, most of the time is: "Shitty game dev practice happens (again), this game has been cancelled/in development while at it".

"Jason is biased because journalists nefariously profit off the publishing of news"

Motherfuckers need therapy I swear
It's 2019 and people still think game journalists are rich people, lmao.
 

Cuburger

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,975
I agree with the sentiment but it has nothing to do with "billion dollar marketing".

Gamers treat E3 like Christmas and want the announcements to be totally new and surprising and to live in the moment with trailers and hype and marketing is all apart of the hype culture. GameStop made their whole business model around preorder bonuses and people buying day one to turn around and sell it when they are done to then sell it used to the person who wasn't caught in the front loaded hype.

Seems like Jason is defending leaks and scoops rather than really saying anything meaningful about this whole hype culture that gamers love to be a part of. I like trailers as much as the next person, but considering most trailers for games prefer to be prerendered cutscenes and in-engine animations over showing off gameplay, the whole idea of hyping a game by not showing the game has aways been at least a little dumb.
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,537
Since Jason Schreier seems like a main point of this thread I'll just say this: I have never seen him as "the leaky guy". His whole leaking news
it's mostly a side effect from the actual job he does, that is reporting and deep investigate stuff, as a good journalist should do. There have been very few of his stories when the revelation of a new game is actually the focus, most of the time is: "Shitty game dev practice happens (again), this game has been cancelled/in development while at it".


It's 2019 and people still think game journalists are rich people, lmao.
Its 2019 and people also think movie and game critics are wealthy.

Ya'll are embarassing
 

Landford

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,678
Fully agree with Cory there.

Me too. Sure, you can go full cynic "Corporations arent your friends" but they are intermingled with hundreds of guys and girls that want their game they bled for unveiled in a cool maner.

Releasing a 3 bullet point tweet for the thing you worked four years or more on sucks.
 

TheUnseenTheUnheard

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 25, 2018
9,647
Uhhhhhhh other news sectors outside of gaming "leak" things all the time before the formal announcements...

Again, breaking accurate news. It is their job.
Point missed.

A journalist who makes money from article traffic is defending leaks.

Other websites and leakers are irrelevant in my point.
 

OutofMana

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,112
California
I've always taken leaks to be part of the whole E3 experience. Ubisoft out of everyone has the worst track record with this, lol. It's all in good fun and it's just trailers/marketing in the end anyway. I do see how the people who worked hard on the game would be bummed the surprise they had in store was spoiled, but at the end of the day it isn't a really big deal.
 

poptire

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,111
Nobody is saying you can't like exploitative marketing like surprise reveals or bait and switches. They're just saying it's fucked up and a symptom of a lot that is still fucked up with the games industry. Posting examples of how fucked up it is as if the hype and cringe is not the fucked up part is exactly the mentality that is being pointed out here. It's accepted as normal in the industry when it is not normal or well-adjusted at all.
I agree that ones excitement/happiness can be TOO wrapped up in the marketing. But are you also opposed to, say, reaction videos from people seeing [game] for the first time? I very much enjoy watching Giant Bomb/Easy Allies reactions to stuff they didn't know about. And I get that it's ALL part of the marketing but I don't find it particularly fucked up, as you say.
 

DmckPower

Member
Feb 1, 2018
2,266
What I don't understand is why would someone risk their job by leaking confidential info like that?

They hate their job? They're planning to quit soon anyway ?

Genuinely asking what's the rationale behind this?
 

Nathan.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,319
France
But is that a direct result of the game leaking, or the media culture that surrounds them? Would we had the same reaction if we had known the passion behind the minds of the project from the day they started development?

I'm not saying they weren't impacted by that big marketing leak (they obviously were), but it did end up working ever so slightly in their favor and if they had been able to open up about it from the start, there probably wouldn't have been such vitriol from the leak?
The had everything to prove with that game, it's understandable why they wanted to make a proper announcement rather than a first look/teaser 4 years before the release like Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem... it worked in the end but at a cost of an unnecessary additional stress. Like you said, is this the result of the actual leak or the culture first ? I'm not the one who will have an answer to that. I do think we should leave the devs alone and let them annouce their projects when they feel it's ready
 

Dymaxion

Member
Sep 19, 2018
1,138
In an industry where gamers literally complain about games being announced years in advance?
The point of my post is that I wouldn't complain about games being announced years in advance. I don't speak on behalf of anyone else. It's really frustrating when developers like Square Enix take too long to deliver their promises, but they are more of an outlier in my eyes.
 

Deleted member 16657

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,198
Jason's job is to break the stories and if you think about the position he's in, its probably quite rare that a game is announced that he didn't already know about.

So I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't know just how fun seeing the glut of announcements can be. I don't want to know about game until they're shown to me as the creators intended. Why the fuck would anyone prefer to just read all about Death Stranding leaks instead of just sitting back and enjoying Kojima's wild ride?
 

Landford

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,678
I've always taken leaks to be part of the whole E3 experience. Ubisoft out of everyone has the worst track record with this, lol. It's all in good fun and it's just trailers/marketing in the end anyway. I do see how the people who worked hard on the game would be bummed the surprise they had in store was spoiled, but at the end of the day it isn't a really big deal.

You shouldnt really tell the people that worked years on a game its not a big deal if they think it is.
 

ShiftyHermit

Member
Oct 27, 2017
421
On one hand I really enjoy the reveals that are done at conferences like E3.

However I personally think that if there was more fluid marketing of games in the different stages of production we would end up with less bait and switch games like Anthem
 

chrominance

Sky Van Gogh
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,784


This is absolutely correct. That's why many games aren't revealed until the developers are satisfied with the game's direction and can reliably deliver on the promised experience.

Sorry, what's that? There are plenty of examples in Schreier's book, not to mention various post-mortem articles, suggesting that this often doesn't happen, and that developers are forced to come up with vertical slices for conferences like E3 in order to meet a publisher's often-arbitrary marketing schedule? That can't be true. Cory Barlog told me that reveals always happen on the developers' own terms!