J. Schreier: "Don't let billion dollar marketing convince you it's a spoiler" [See Threadmarks for further clarification]

[Gush]

Surprises are fun, and experiencing them simultaneously with tons of other people as intended is even better. I don't really care if I see a leak, and I don't really think that leaks are spoilers, but it's easy to see why people enjoy getting excited in unison over a big surprise.

Some of you are making weirdly antagonistic and deeply cynical readings out of peoples enjoyment and anticipation. It's cool to celebrate the medium and see cool stuff, and that's really it. Leaks aren't the end of the world, that's for sure, but you don't gotta act like people who enjoy the build up are wrong for doing so.

 

[Mr. Genuine]

The idea that announcements of products are a "spoiler" that people want to be surprised about is a brand new thing for society, and not everyone has jumped on the train or is even aware of the train's existence. I understand where Jason is coming from. I don't think it reflects positively on modern society either.

 

[Akira86]

Agree with this take much more.

Granted, a journalist's job is to break stories - something sorely missing from games writing - so I'm not gonna fault them. But at least be honest with the repercussions of that work.

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it just looks like two sides, and really who the fuck sides with a corporate marketing team?

 

[carlosrox]

it just looks like two sides, and really who the fuck sides with a corporate marketing team?

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I side with developers before entitled gamers, journalists, and leakers.

This isn't Watergate, it's fucking videogames. I'm fine with waiting til the people responsible for making these things are ready to show it, not when someone with a lack of basic decency wants some e-fame.

 

[Akira86]

I side with developers before entitled gamers, journalists, and leakers.

This isn't Watergate, it's fucking videogames. I'm fine with waiting til the people responsible for making these things are ready to show it, not when someone with a lack of basic decency wants some e-fame.

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lack of basic decency, and so on, but again, we're talking journalists, and corporate marketing teams. No one wants to see devs hurt, I don't think. But no one wants to play some dumb corporate gambit either. I don't think sitting on a story for a couple days so someone's marketing plan can go through makes *that* much sense.

t-boning someone months in advance to pour cold water all over their project before its done is one thing. Telling very excited people something is coming, a couple days in advance is not comparable.

 

[SageShinigami]

47 pages for ya'll to argue about Jason's (completely correct) response. Aight then.

I side with developers before entitled gamers, journalists, and leakers.

This isn't Watergate, it's fucking videogames. I'm fine with waiting til the people responsible for making these things are ready to show it, not when someone with a lack of basic decency wants some e-fame.

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This is not a proper use of entitled.

 

[Militaratus]

If the announcement is ready, just do it asap, and not wait for an arbitrary date and time. Not the leakers fault you have marketing people that still operate in the then and not the now.

 

[Browser]

So would you guys think that it would be newsworthy if someone leaked the exact content of jason's book when he clearly wants to get people excited for his new project but is not ready yet to divulge specifics yet?

 

[carlosrox]

So would you guys think that it would be newsworthy if someone leaked the exact content of jason's book when he clearly wants to get people excited for his new project but is not ready yet to divulge specifics yet?

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Boo look at that marketing. Some 4channer should have shared that announcement, not him!

 

[Necromanti]

So would you guys think that it would be newsworthy if someone leaked the exact content of jason's book when he clearly wants to get people excited for his new project but is not ready yet to divulge specifics yet?

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Do you mean a situation like pirates getting their hands on and releasing the final build of a game right before release? Or do you mean someone just "leaking" what the book will be about?

 

[carlosrox]

Do you mean a situation like pirates getting their hands on and releasing the final build of a game right before release? Or do you mean someone just "leaking" what the book will be about?

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Leaks come in many shapes and sizes.

Pretending people are just talking about the existence or name of a game are the only leaks we have a problem with is just one of the few disingenuous arguments I keep seeing in this thread.

Details, plot details, names, screens, trailers, and entire chunks of games have leaked before.

 

[PopsMaellard]

So would you guys think that it would be newsworthy if someone leaked the exact content of jason's book when he clearly wants to get people excited for his new project but is not ready yet to divulge specifics yet?

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Sorry, remind what E3 leak contained a detailed description of the contents of the final product? What E3 leak in any way spoiled the actual game/it's contents and not simply the mere existence of it?

 

[carlosrox]

Sorry, remind what E3 leak contained a detailed description of the contents of the final product? What E3 leak in any way spoiled the actual game/it's contents and not simply the mere existence of it?

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Why just E3?

Mario + Rabbids and HL2 were two major leaks that really messed with the team's morale. And in HL2's case it straight up fucked the game up and Valve had to rework it and delay it IIRC.

 

[PopsMaellard]

Why just E3?

Mario + Rabbids and HL2 were two major leaks that really messed with the team's morale. And in HL2's case it straight up fucked the game up and Valve had to rework it and delay it IIRC.

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Sure, but this topic has never been about the concept of leaks being shitty overall. Leaking playable code is just piracy, obviously. Leaking huge amounts of the actual game in any capacity is super shitty. Jason, however, was specifically discussing covering leaked marketing. There is nothing wrong with covering leaked marketing, and the existence of announcements being leaked isn't shitty to publish. It's just marketing.

 

[cmdiego]

Lets just say it is towards the lower end of the morality scale.

 

[Professor Beef]

Boo look at that marketing. Some 4channer should have shared that announcement, not him!

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what in the world are you even arguing about at this point

when did *anyone* ever say that leaks are preferable to actual announcements? the argument has primarily been that leaks are fine and aren't spoilers

 

[carlosrox]

what in the world are you even arguing about at this point

when did *anyone* ever say that leaks are preferable to actual announcements? the argument has primarily been that leaks are fine and aren't spoilers

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I don't agree one bit that leaks are fine. They're not fine. They're betraying someone's trust first of all..

 

[.exe]

Oh no, I'm being robbed of getting caught up on the hype machine. So sad.

Leak away. We could all stand to take a more sober look at announcements.

 

[PopsMaellard]

I don't agree one bit that leaks are fine. They're not fine. They're betraying someone's trust first of all..

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Publishing leaks is fine. Leaking info you stole from your company is not fine. It definitely is betraying someone's trust. I fully agree with that sentiment. It's shitty that people leak things. It's not shitty that people report on those leaks, within reason. Reporting on the existence of a game a day before the existence is announced is within reason.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Movies aren't the same as games.

Are they supposed to announce TLOU3 a week after TLOU2 is out?

So many disingenuous arguments in here.

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Yes, if the choice to make TLOU3 has been made!

They basically all but announced Black Panther 2 the moment after the first weekend box office numbers came in. That's a good thing!

 

[jviggy43]

I don't agree one bit that leaks are fine. They're not fine. They're betraying someone's trust first of all..

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If you want to talk about betraying trust youre going to have to reconcile that 90% of first time footage of games shown at this conference are bullshit made to hype consumers up as much as possible while knowing damn well the final product isnt coming close to what they showed off. And frankly its tiring watch people try to pull the moral high ground about trust and dev feelings while completely ignoring how predatory and dishonest so much of these conference can be. Trust goes both ways and if were going to have that conversation then we best be evaluating how it works for all parties involved.

 

[Exist 2 Inspire]

Is it really a problem? Like what's the actual damage there? How is knowing the existence of a game before an official announcement hurting devs?

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Telltale Games Allegedly Fined $1 Million For Stranger Things Leaks

...the gaming company was sued for $1 million because of the leaks and was a major contributor in it having to lay off almost all of its staff. Not just because that is a lot of money to have to pay out, but it may have also put off other partners from working with Telltale.

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[TreeMePls]

I don't agree one bit that leaks are fine. They're not fine. They're betraying someone's trust first of all..

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That only applies to the person who signed the NDA and the developer/publisher. If a journalist wants to verify it then there isnt a breaking of any trust on their end

 

[Mr. Genuine]

Holding marketing in any way as sacred and wanting to protect it as such is a very depressing development of gamer culture. I give a shit about any business's marketing and promotional material's integrity and secrecy as much as any normal person should: zero.

 

[Necromanti]

Leaks come in many shapes and sizes.

Pretending people are just talking about the existence or name of a game are the only leaks we have a problem with is just one of the few disingenuous arguments I keep seeing in this thread.

Details, plot details, names, screens, trailers, and entire chunks of games have leaked before.

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Jason's tweets seemed specific about leaking announcements rather anything quite that severe. But maybe I misread.

 

[Francesco]

Yet you'll frequent this site which doesthe same thing. Ridiculous.

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It's different.

 

[Alic]

The correct analogy is leaking the existence of a book, or some general details about the book, before the author was ready to tell people about it. Or leaking the existence of a movie.

If you try to say it's like leaking the actual content of a book, or bootleg scenes from a movie, all you're doing is demonstrating how much the game audience and game developers have gotten the actual art they like muddled with marketing campaigns.

Of course, you could point out that the actual art you like in this case is the press conferences themselves, and not actually video games. Which is fine, no judgement here. But it seems like a stretch to say that can spoil a game.

 

[Deleted member 2652]

So would you guys think that it would be newsworthy if someone leaked the exact content of jason's book when he clearly wants to get people excited for his new project but is not ready yet to divulge specifics yet?

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Boo look at that marketing. Some 4channer should have shared that announcement, not him!

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galaxy brain takes

 

[Atom Heart Mother]

Why just E3?

Mario + Rabbids and HL2 were two major leaks that really messed with the team's morale. And in HL2's case it straight up fucked the game up and Valve had to rework it and delay it IIRC.

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There's a fine line between leaking a poster of a game ~3 days before its reveal and leaking the entire source code for a video game. E3 leaks that simply tell you "hey, there's a new From Soft game by George RR Martin and Miyazaki" isn't a big deal in hindsight. That's on the marketing department for fucking up and if Jason isn't gonna report it someone will.

 

[Deleted member 2652]

keep it up jason. would hate to see something bad happen to your new book's... synopsis

 

[Tzarscream]

So would you guys think that it would be newsworthy if someone leaked the exact content of jason's book when he clearly wants to get people excited for his new project but is not ready yet to divulge specifics yet?

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You're being disingenuous.

However, if Jason was to write that he's had cocaine fueled nights on the town with Gabe Newell who then spilled the beans on what happened in Half Life 3 and that leaked out before the book was published, that would be news worth running.

 

[svacina]

Apathy isn't cool.

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Oh, I'm not apathetic. I have strong feelings about spoiler culture, it's just that voicing them would get me banned.

 

[HBK]

1 / It's not a spoiler.
2 / Let's not pretend those leaks are done out of goodwill and not for them clicks.

 

[svacina]

1 / It's not a spoiler.
2 / Let's not pretend those leaks are done out of goodwill and not for them clicks.

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Reporting on leaks is not leaking.

 

[Browser]

keep it up jason. would hate to see something bad happen to your new book's... synopsis

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That was actually my point. Is it newsworthy to leak what the book is about if people clearly want to know but he is not ready to say yet? On one hand there is no damage if we know early (that we can see) on the other what knowing would satisfy for us? Nothing extremwly important.

Every reporter have to have this internal dialogue when they come across information they can leak. Jason seem to do that based on his reddit post.

 

[Old Gimlet Eyes]

Holding marketing in any way as sacred and wanting to protect it as such is a very depressing development of gamer culture. I give a shit about any business's marketing and promotional material's integrity and secrecy as much as any normal person should: zero.

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Exactly how everyone should feel about it. All these water boys carrying the company water and they ain't even gettin paid, sad.

 

[Evildeadhead]

Threads still mental, I see. Mitt Romney would be rock hard reading some of these posts.

 

[Raysoul]

After reading the other thread with the devs explaining their side, It's sad to see reading this thread. Such lack of emphaty for people working hard on your videogames.

 

[Deleted member 23893]

At the end of the day, the devs/publishers have a right to be upset that their plans were thrown into disarray. At the same time, news people have a right to publish breaking news, not beholden to said publisher. No one is "wrong" here, it's just the reality of living with conflicting goals. I feel for them both.

However (and I know this is gonna ruffle a lot of your feathers), I will say that I think not a single consumer is in the right to get upset about having a series of commercials/announcements "spoiled" for them. The fact that our society sees huge entertainment value in being told "this is what we want you to spend money on next year" is so fucking toxic it's unreal.

 

[ISOM]

After reading the other thread with the devs explaining their side, It's sad to see reading this thread. Such lack of emphaty for people working hard on your videogames.

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Games don't bomb because of leaks. It's not that serious.

 

[Raysoul]

Games don't bomb because of leaks. It's not that serious.

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Never did the devs said their game bombed because of the leaks. Go read the other thread and come back here invalidating their points.

 

[ISOM]

Never did the devs said their game bombed because of the leaks. Go read the other thread and come back here invalidating their points.

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Then nothing the devs say can make me care that much. I know the hard work they put into games but leaks are apart of every industry.

 

[Opposable]

Leaks also have the opposite effect. For example last year when people were bummed out that Star Fox/F Zero did not show.

 

[EVIL]

Games don't bomb because of leaks. It's not that serious.

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Dude, it can cause mistrust between studios and publishers and other third party titles leading up to cancellation of titles and future of studios being put to risk.

https://www.destructoid.com/the-sto...endo-was-doomed-by-leaks-is-wild-517077.phtml

High Voltage Software was working on a game, but was cancelled by Nintendo (who cut ties with the studio as a whole) after a disgruntled employee threw their whole studio under the bus by leaking details of the game. After High Voltage Software where unable to identify the leaker Nintendo cut ties with them.

edit: this is just one example we now know of. I can assure you there are more but you have no clue about for obvious reasons. Studios lose millions because of leaks putting the lively hoods of legit hardworking devs on the line.

Telltale Got fined one million dollars for leaks that happened of stranger things, eventually being part of the reason why the studio had to close down.

https://www.thegamer.com/telltale-games-fined-1-million-stranger-things-leaks/

 

[Deleted member 2652]

After reading the other thread with the devs explaining their side, It's sad to see reading this thread. Such lack of emphaty for people working hard on your videogames.

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They are two separate things.

 

[ConradCervantes]

All for leaks, if a media outlet wants my views, they'll have to publish more than puff pieces and thinly veiled ads for publishers.

Publishers and developers don't like leaks, then the industry should set new standards for revealing new projects, because industry folk needing to jerk each other off over E3 reveals frankly isn't my concern.

 

[Roy]

Leaks are often a symptom of disgruntled personnel.

Apex was able to basically stealth release and Respawn has spoken at length how they avoid exploitative labour practices like crunch. This is not a coincidence.

 

[Deleted member 6730]

Dude, it can cause mistrust between studios and publishers and other third party titles leading up to cancellation of titles and future of studios being put to risk.

https://www.destructoid.com/the-sto...endo-was-doomed-by-leaks-is-wild-517077.phtml

High Voltage Software was working on a game, but was cancelled by Nintendo (who cut ties with the studio as a whole) after a disgruntled employee threw their whole studio under the bus by leaking details of the game. After High Voltage Software where unable to identify the leaker Nintendo cut ties with them.

edit: this is just one example we now know of. I can assure you there are more but you have no clue about for obvious reasons. Studios lose millions because of leaks putting the lively hoods of legit hardworking devs on the line.

Telltale Got fined one million dollars for leaks that happened of stranger things, eventually being part of the reason why the studio had to close down.

https://www.thegamer.com/telltale-games-fined-1-million-stranger-things-leaks/

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This is more of a problem with gaming's culture of secrets than anything else.

 

[Musubi]

This is more of a problem with gaming's culture of secrets than anything else.

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Pretty much this. If the industry wasn't as secretive to begin with those kind of things wouldn't be an issue.

 

[Kcannon]

After reading the other thread with the devs explaining their side, It's sad to see reading this thread. Such lack of emphaty for people working hard on your videogames.

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Guess what. Leaks tend to be the fault of dev people themselves.

Maybe the problem lies right there in how the industry works. Treat your devs like crap, yet expect them to uphold your secrets for the sake of marketing purposes.

Don't blame journalists for doing their job on reporting news and announcements, leaked or not.