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Deleted member 11039

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,109
Again, my career is in marketing. I get it. Doesn't change the fact that marketing exists fundamentally to drive engagement. It's not art. It's not a sacred experience that needs to be protected. It's a thing that is trying to get you to engage with a product or service. Your enjoyment of a game is wholly separate from you knowing of it's existence before release.

No one is saying it's a sacred experience. It is a narrative experience though. This shouldn't be something that needs to be debated with someone who works in marketing.

We're talking about enjoyment of the E3 event. And initially hearing about stuff from a leak can be less fun than being introduced to it by the people who care the most about it. I don't know what's controversial about it.

For whenever you need validation for why the state of gaming and anti consumer practices is the way it is.

Please elaborate on this nonsense.
 

carlsojo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
33,765
San Francisco
Brave take incoming: I really enjoy E3 shows and the surprises/megatons. Knowing the surprises ahead of time does detract from the experience for me. I think it's pretty shitty of people to roll up in here rolling their eyes with "Ugh spoilerphobia in 2019 is sooo ridiculous".
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Brave take incoming: I really enjoy E3 shows and the surprises/megatons. Knowing the surprises ahead of time does detract from the experience for me. I think it's pretty shitty of people to roll up in here rolling their eyes with "Ugh spoilerphobia in 2019 is sooo ridiculous".
People are rolling their eyes at you because its entirely your own fault for going places where you know spoilers may be floating around.
 

deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,494
Brave take incoming: I really enjoy E3 shows and the surprises/megatons. Knowing the surprises ahead of time does detract from the experience for me. I think it's pretty shitty of people to roll up in here rolling their eyes with "Ugh spoilerphobia in 2019 is sooo ridiculous".

It's really not the same thing as "spoilerphobia" or "spoiler culture", though. Like if we're talking about spoilers for the games themselves, for story stuff and all that? I will absolutely be there saying people should be respectful and tag carefully, etc.. Spoilers for that kind of thing can be incredibly detrimental to my enjoyment, as I will sometimes hyperfocus on them and not be able to enjoy the storytelling for what it is.

But spoilers for advertising... no. There is spectacle and surprise to be enjoyed, yes, but at the end of the day it's advertising and not worth being so protective of.
 

PrimeBeef

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,840
Brave take incoming: I really enjoy E3 shows and the surprises/megatons. Knowing the surprises ahead of time does detract from the experience for me. I think it's pretty shitty of people to roll up in here rolling their eyes with "Ugh spoilerphobia in 2019 is sooo ridiculous".
I can appreciate that. Studies have shown that knowing spoilers ahead of viewing material doesn't really ruin the experience even in those who do not wish to be spoiled. Sure it may diminish it some, but very few are ever truly spoiled and have the experience ruined for them like many in this thread would have you believe. I am not saying that some people don't have the experience ruined, just that the extent isn't that big. But your last statement is true regardless of your feels on the subject.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Yeah like a gaming enthusiast forum during E3. How stupid of me.
It is. This place is a huge forum where leaks and rumors originate and get posted. If thats something that you want to avoid why are you here? Thats an integral part of what this forum is about, and you know that. So coming here and then getting upset about this message board is doing the very thing this message board does is eye roll worthy.
 

jschreier

Press Sneak Fuck
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,083
Brave take incoming: I really enjoy E3 shows and the surprises/megatons. Knowing the surprises ahead of time does detract from the experience for me. I think it's pretty shitty of people to roll up in here rolling their eyes with "Ugh spoilerphobia in 2019 is sooo ridiculous".
But I'm not saying you shouldn't enjoy E3 shows or be disappointed when there are no surprises. I mean, hell, I'm hoping to be surprised too.

What I'm saying is that if you go to my Twitter feed or Kotaku and you think we're posting "spoilers" by reporting on leaks that popped up two days before E3, you are being absurd.

Clearly I didn't make myself clear enough in the first place, but of course, Twitter is very good at obliterating context.
 

Altera

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
1,963
Amazing how toxic people are being just because they personally, don't care about things being spoiled.

People aren't wrong for caring just like you aren't wrong for not caring.
 

Deleted member 873

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,463
Yes it's marketing. Why do people keep calling this out like it's an invalidation?

But, I don't know any other way to say it, but you're wrong. Storytelling in marketing is like a fundamental thing.
As someone who studies narratives at a university level, sure. However, you're pulling a feat over a narrative extremely attached to selling a product. And when we talk about art, we should be talking about the object in itself.

The way some of you are in this thread reads as if the marketing behind games is an art worth fighting for. Like. I disagree with this entirely (and this attitude is embedded in what I feel gets games to be seen as a lesser form of art - an aggressive capitalist agenda by a few multibillionaire companies that alienates the work of artists).
 

Laconik

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
217
I actually agree with Schreier on this. It is just an announcement. Devs should worry about the game being great then about it being announced.
 

DerpHause

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,379
Cant a genuine first reaction come from a leak? Can't people have a genuine first reaction after a leak occurs?

A genuine first reaction can come from a leak, but those reactions will be ones they will even more likely never see.

I've never seen a parent on Christmas morning that didn't want to see their kids face light up over seeing a gift even if they knew it would happen whether they were looking or not. Does no one think people who make games could feel the same way?
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184

Evildeadhead

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,667
A genuine first reaction can come from a leak, but those reactions will be ones they will even more likely never see.

I've never seen a parent on Christmas morning that didn't want to see their kids face light up over seeing a gift even if they knew it would happen whether they were looking or not. Does no one think people who make games could feel the same way?
Shouldn't they have that reaction when the game is actually in people's hands?
 

Rogue Kiwi

Chicken Chaser
Banned
May 5, 2019
725
There are plenty of forums and dedicated sub reddits that do not discuss leaks you can visit. Era is a forum that does discuss this type of information. If you care that much about it you'd remain in pockets of the internet where you know you dont have to worry about it. Or take the chance and roll the dice by coming here and thenn getting angry when something gets leaked. Era leaks and discusses rumors all the time. Thats an integral part of what this forum does. If you dont like it there are other areas of the internet you can go to avoid that talk.

People absolutely should avoid their favorite sites if said sites are places that discuss leaks and rumors and said posters wish to avoid having anything revealed to them. Suggesting otherwise is pure entitlement.

Suggesting people should go elsewhere so you can find out about news less than 3 days before you would've found out anyway is pure entitlement.

Why not just have an E3 leaks thread?
 

svacina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,439
Suggesting people should go elsewhere so you can find out about news less than 3 days before you would've found out anyway is pure entitlement.

Why not just have an E3 leaks thread?
It's not entitlement if it is the status quo. It's the other side that feels entitled to have it changed.

Nobody is entitled, it's a forum.
 

TrueSloth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,065
A genuine first reaction can come from a leak, but those reactions will be ones they will even more likely never see.

I've never seen a parent on Christmas morning that didn't want to see their kids face light up over seeing a gift even if they knew it would happen whether they were looking or not. Does no one think people who make games could feel the same way?
Then they should go watch reaction videos if they are so invested in emotional reactions. Developers should be way more concerned about peoples reactions to playing a game than whether first impressions are deflated after a leak.
 

Evildeadhead

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,667
Sure, but why only then? Is no one allowed to be excited about their work until after it's done? Does no one want to see that what they're working on is desired?
Sure and leaks don't stop that. As seen below
Screen_Shot_2017_06_20_at_3.43.36_PM.0.png
 

DerpHause

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,379
Sure and leaks don't stop that. As seen below
Screen_Shot_2017_06_20_at_3.43.36_PM.0.png

So you think a first reveal has no difference to a known reveal? Like the surprise of a productions' existance makes no possible difference?

No, I don't. People always knew Kingdom hearts 3 was coming, it didnt change their explosive reactions.

You must not have watched a lot of reactions then as peopke built excitement over unknown titles. Seeing people freak out over a mid ir end trailer title reveal. It's incredibly easy to find reactions like this.
 

Deleted member 11039

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,109
As someone who studies narratives at a university level, sure. However, you're pulling a feat over a narrative extremely attached to selling a product. And when we talk about art, we should be talking about the object in itself.

The way some of you are in this thread reads as if the marketing behind games is an art worth fighting for. Like. I disagree with this entirely (and this attitude is embedded in what I feel gets games to be seen as a lesser form of art - an aggressive capitalist agenda by a few multibillionaire companies that alienates the work of artists).

This is silly.

We're not talking about art. We're talking about E3 the event and how fun it is with all the surprises and whatnot. People get hyped for WWDC to see what Apple has in store. Comic Con is full of reveals and such. The cornerstone of Star Wars Celebration was the new trailer. None of this is unique to gaming.

And both games and advertisements are made by creatives funded by large corporations. You can value one more but don't be so dismissal of the work of others.
 
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Y2Kev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,838
I think I enjoy the surprises too, but I also like knowing as soon as I can. Sometimes I think taking the shock out of things helps you evaluate and an analyze things better later. Spoiler culture is kind of insaneo.
 

Burrman

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,633
He's right you know.

I think Corey's argument isn't really a faithful engagement. People are not getting upset because a dev team loses out on having a surprise reveal , rather people are getting upset because the surprise was ruined for them which is ABSOLUTELY FUCKING RIDICULOUS.
A surprised ruined for fans is the exact reason why devs want a surprise reveal though. Isn't it?
 

Deleted member 283

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,288
I'd say threads like this prove Jason's point more than anything, with some of the pure venom that he's been getting in this thread. As if he were wrong, nobody should be getting banned in this thread. But that's not the case: multiple people have been banned because they feel so strongly that they can't refrain from personal attacks over this stuff. And no matter how you feel about this stuff, no matter which side you come down on, getting so personal that you get warned/banned over this topic is better proof of Jason's point than anything. As no matter how you feel about this, nobody should be saying anything that comes anywhere close to getting warned, nevermind banned. That they are regardless, that this thread is as long as it is and that people are so passionate that they're getting themselves banned over this shows things definitely aren't normal and certain people definitely need to take a step back from these things, if just discussing this makes them react like that.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
I'd say threads like this prove Jason's point more than anything, with some of the pure venom that he's been getting in this thread. As if he were wrong, nobody should be getting banned in this thread. But that's not the case: multiple people have been banned because they feel so strongly that they can't refrain from personal attacks over this stuff. And no matter how you feel about this stuff, no matter which side you come down on, getting so personal that you get warned/banned over this topic is better proof of Jason's point than anything. As no matter how you feel about this, nobody should be saying anything that comes anywhere close to getting warned, nevermind banned. That they are regardless, that this thread is as long as it is and that people are so passionate that they're getting themselves banned over this shows things definitely aren't normal and certain people definitely need to take a step back from these things, if just discussing this makes them react like that.

I'm surprised you can see people getting banned at all, from all the way up there on your horse. I mean, one would think the clouds would block the view.
 

Deleted member 896

User Requested Account Deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,353
Suggesting people should go elsewhere so you can find out about news less than 3 days before you would've found out anyway is pure entitlement.

Why not just have an E3 leaks thread?

I mean, I'm not calling the shots or anything. But I think this is a terrible idea. Everyone is different, but one of the main ways I read this forum and its predecessor before it is as a news aggregator. Leaks are news. Having major news relegated to a leaks megathread is completely counterintuitive to what I'm looking for when I click the Gaming Discussion link.
 

Evildeadhead

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,667
Who are you to get to decide who gets to celebrate their work and when or how they can do so? Why are you the arbiter of what that's worth?
What the fuck are you chatting about? If a game is well received the devs will receive credit for the rest of their lives, just look at Grant Kirkhope's Twitter. Do you think the interaction he has with fans 20 years after one game he worked on released would be different if a trailer leaked a month before Nintendo wanted to show it?
 

DerpHause

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,379
I'm me. Seems to work out fine.

Yeah, but no one has to give a shit last I checked, so if an entire industry wants to celebrate what it's working on and the fans want to participate it seems nothing short if arrogantly dismissive to say that has no value.

What the fuck are you chatting about? If a game is well received the devs will receive credit for the rest of their lives, just look at Grant Kirkhope's Twitter. Do you think the interaction he has with fans 20 years after one game he worked on released would be different if a trailer leaked a month before Nintendo wanted to show it?

Depends, were they the person who worked on the reveal? If so yeah, they probably will, especially if it was a project they were particularly attached to.
 

deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,494
Y'know, as this thread keeps going: the thing that really gets me about this is that absolutely nothing from the Bandai Namco leaks is like... actually significant new information? Not only is "conference spoilers" inherently silly, but this specific instance seems entirely just very basic information.

A Ni no Kuni remaster's happening. That's neat, was fond of it when I played a year ago. Not exactly a megaton. Importantly, it's not even likely to be at a conference - it's not on XBox and the Switch version lacks the remaster label. This leak is probably doing more for it attention-wise than announcement via press release would!

Elden Ring exists. The leak is literally just a logo and a title? Oh, and the information about Martin... that's all been rumored for weeks if not months? That was all out there and said to be at Microsoft's conference already? There's not even any other details about the game.

A new Tales game is coming out. Visual style's a bit different. Some vague setting details. That's maybe the only big, unexpected thing and you're still not seeing the bulk of it.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Suggesting people should go elsewhere so you can find out about news less than 3 days before you would've found out anyway is pure entitlement.

Why not just have an E3 leaks thread?
You have that backwards. Coming onto a forum where leaks and rumors are always being posted and being upset that something os spoiled for you, and then expecting the way that forum operates to better accomadate YOUR preferences, is entitlement.