Continuing to be toxic and calling people who think differently than you do "unhealthy" is my bet.
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J. Schreier: "Don't let billion dollar marketing convince you it's a spoiler" [See Threadmarks for further clarification]
- Thread starter Musubi
- Start date
That's your choice to take the statement of unhealthy so seriously and as toxic. Get over it. As is the idea that commenting on said behavior at all indicates it has a material affect on me.
Lots of stuff is unhealthy and to extremely varying degrees. I'm not making a judgement of how unhealthy it is. Maybe my position is unhealthy in some degree too as you are want to try and spin into some gacha. In the grand scheme it's probably not a huge deal if people get wrapped up in this. Maybe it's pointless to even point out, similarly to getting so defensive and upset when someone does point it out.
Sorry I have to ask but are we talking about the same same E3 that produced this?
www.youtube.com
I understand not wanting to be spoilt over a good story or a great plot twist but this really?
Ubisoft E3 2011 - Mr. Caffeine
Apparently this man is someone companies bring in to make entire audiences commit suicide.
www.youtube.com
I understand not wanting to be spoilt over a good story or a great plot twist but this really?
Not every corporation is the same. That's the flaw of the argument.
After all, aren't news media corporations? Should they never report on what other corporations do because they're corporations as well? I do think it's a problem that gaming journalism is more or less just disguised advertising for companies, so it's always good to have more critical journalism about the industry.
Especially such a fucked up industry like this one. There are more than enough articles detailing how the current model the industry follows does developers dirty, and stuff like E3 megaton announcements are related to it, but in the end, it's somehow the fault of journalists that leaks are a problem.
Nah. Your "my way is the right way and everyone else is unhealthy" is definitely toxic. And also unhealthy. You aren't wrong for preferring game reveals the way you do, but other people aren't wrong for preferring the intended way.
Someday maybe you'll understand that. Someday.
The whole thing is Jason Schrier claims people are wrong to not like E3 game leaks. Which is a joke when it's a fact he personally benefits from it. I'm not mad that he writes about a leak everyone else is writing about, because why shouldn't he? His claim is what's bullshit.
Reading that tweet from Corey Barlog again and I stopped and thought about this:
Does that count as devs "revealing [a game] on their terms"?
And it reminded me of all the trailers for Anthem that were just straight up lies.
Does that count as devs "revealing [a game] on their terms"?
Of course they are trying to sell you a product and profit. They are businesses. That doesn't mean there aren't genuinely creative and passionate people behind the products working hard on delivering awesome experiences that can't be had elsewhere. There is a value to that and dismissing it all as faceless corporations trying to trick you out of your hard-earned dollar is some nonsense.
I don't see anything wrong with them trying to drum up excitement amongst people who are interested in what they have to offer. I almost never pre-order games, but I still love being surprised by big announcements and carefully crafted reveals that are well done. What is unhealthy about wanting to experience the excitement of learning about something new that interests you? Nothing at all.
Yes. "Yikes" for trying to stand up for the developers. Of course leaks affect them, but that's not the fault of journalists (usually). Devs can even contact journalists to keep shut so it doesn't hurt them.
But hey, let's not forget how many devs are anti-union and glorify crunch under the guise of passion, which makes things harder for other developers.
Someone posted back then that Cory has avoided questions about crunch and tried to downplay it back during the pre-GoW days. If true, that's worrying, but I'm willing to believe he's a good guy overall.
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All we're asking is that they don't spoil game announcements, especially a couple of days before E3. That's literally all we're asking, just one specific thing that doesn't hurt them. These sites are going to get a ton of traffic during E3, they don't have to do it.
They can preview/review/podcast/stream the games however they want, all i ask is that they don't ruin the fun of E3 for the people that care about that sort of thing. I don't think i'm asking for much.
Isn't it the case that game sites releasing these leaks or even reporting on them, they are making money from this stuff, click ads etc... so I don't think the justification is a balanced one.
Fucking exactly this. Kotaku and Jason aren't doing anyone a public service. They're trying to get paid by delivering information they know will get them clicks.
Jason is a genuine dude who believes in his work and it shows, but he wouldn't be doing what he does without money being involved.
And all we're saying is that something as banal as a logo and title leak isn't going to ruin the official reveal.
Wow I know Elden Ring exists, guess I can't enjoy that shit when it's gonna be demoed tomorrow or something huh
Jason Responds
Hello from a flight to LA! I haven't read most of this thread and don't have time to respond much, but I want to make sure you all have the proper context here: this tweet is about reporters (like me) reporting on leaks that pop up elsewhere (like Bandai Namco) and the asinine reactions of "omg how dare you spoil E3 by sharing this massive high-interest leak with your readers." Someone actually suggested that I should put a spoiler warning on my article!!! Which is absurd. That's what my tweet is addressing.
Situations in which I break news based on what's leaked to me (like, say, the Starcraft FPS getting canceled) make for a far more complicated conversation, one that I can't get into now but that I've addressed a few times before, including in one of my follow-up tweets last night. I often sit on information that's leaked to me during situations where I believe that sharing it could do more harm than good. Information that leaks elsewhere, however, is another story. (Again, Namco.)
Just wanted to make sure that's clear, since it's so hard to capture context on Twitter. Hope you all have a good E3. I can't wait!
Situations in which I break news based on what's leaked to me (like, say, the Starcraft FPS getting canceled) make for a far more complicated conversation, one that I can't get into now but that I've addressed a few times before, including in one of my follow-up tweets last night. I often sit on information that's leaked to me during situations where I believe that sharing it could do more harm than good. Information that leaks elsewhere, however, is another story. (Again, Namco.)
Just wanted to make sure that's clear, since it's so hard to capture context on Twitter. Hope you all have a good E3. I can't wait!
I know plenty of devs who hated going to work at E3. It's a miserable slog to give 3 days of closed door demos for most people. You barely get any time to check out the floor yourself as an exhibitor. Also many teams considered the time in the schedule to put together E3 demos as wasted time taken away from creating the actual game.
It's usually only the leads or marketing faves who get all the glory and good feelings out of it, when the other devs are scrambling to put out tech fires behind the scenes. Depends on the project of course.
Thanks for dropping by Jason. Although i strongly disagree with you on this particular issue, i really appreciate all the great reporting you do for the industry.
I still don't understand what was the point in leaking new Ubisoft games a couple days ago. One of them wasn't even leaked anywhere before.
As someone who is against being spoiled for E3 events personally, I think journalists absolutely should report on leaks. It is their job. However, I think the reasoning in Jason's tweets ring hollow. Journalists are simply doing their job. Nothing more, nothing less.
Your a journalist, your just doing your job and your one of the best in this industry at it. Thanks for all of the great stories and scoops over the years. The concept of spoiling game announcements is immensely silly to me.
Maybe don't treat the industry as some monolithic entity and instead look at Barlog's past experience? The God of War reveal certainly wasn't full of lies and misleading nonsense.
I mean, with that context, what you said is perfectly reasonable. Reporting on leaks that are already out in the open is very different from being the one to do the leaking.
What makes you think he even has access to Death Stranding insider information? lol
Fair enough. I can imagine making a demo, trailer or gameplay reveal presentation could piss many off, just like pointless meetings that could have been summarised in a short email piss me off.
Press should report on whatever they feel like. And people should be able to get disappointed about leaks a few days before a big event. There's nothing unhealthy about it.
And I have no idea what "billion dollar marketing convincing you that these are spoilers" is supposed to mean beside sensationalizing and trying to frame it as evil big corp brainwashing nonsense.
I've seen tons of people use Sony's 2015 E3 like some high benchmark of gaming, and not an embarrassment that either still hasn't delivered the products promised, or they came and went with barely a whimper.
They were CG trailers made years too early for games that are only now starting to be publicly shown again, it sucked anyways.
I don't need the pageantry. If a game exists, I just want to know about it.
Crying about stuff being leaked is something I'll never understand.
Crying about stuff being leaked is something I'll never understand.
What does the release window have to do with the announcements? Are you saying its ok to leak games that are far away but not ok to leak games that are close?
What point are you making? Why are you telling people what to like? Why does it upset you that people get enjoyment out of game announcements?
You know if developers didn't have to go into extreme crunch to produce an ultra secret E3 premiere demo, it may just be a good thing for people working in the industry. I'm just saying...
Me? Considering the E3 conferences are big PR events and you have to pay to get Fanfest tickets, lots of other people, too.
This is definitely a valid point that I admit I hadn't even considered at all. Indeed, I definitely can't imagine that makes things very easy compared to say film or television, where that stuff tends to be either leaked or flat-out announced much earlier, making that not as big of a deal.
That aside, since I covered pretty much everything else in my prior post in here, focusing purely on the spoiler aspect to me, that's kind of a weird thing because as far as most leaks go, they're typically of the nature of "Developer X, is working on Game Y, for Platform Z" and maybe a screenshot or two, and it's just weird for me personally to think how that could personally ruin my excitement or enjoyment in any way. Like, the typical leak is more along the lines of something like the Project Beast, aka what went on to be Bloodborne, leak, where is was just that, the codename for the game that From Software was working on at the time, with just like one or two screenshots, and people having a blast in the leak thread, with all kinds of rampant speculation, and that obviously didn't hurt Bloodborne's sales or anyone's enjoyment at all.
And that's how most leaks go, stuff like that. It would be different if every single thing about the game leaked, like trailer and all, but when it's typically just name/developer/platforms and maybe a few screenshots and stuff, I don't see how that could possibly ruin anything or do anything other than build the hype of what the game actually looks and plays like and all that, since in most leaks you don't know any of that until the reveal itself. I don't get what the name itself can ruin, if you care about the game itself, since that by itself reveals so little and it's all ultimately about the gameplay itself, which is hard enough to discern at times just from watching a trailer and not actually playing it for yourself, nevermind a text leak. That being the case, with how barebones most leaks are, I personally don't get how a leak of the game's mere existence would possibly do anything other than build excitement, if anything.
Like yeah, even if something like say Shemue 3 were leaked, or a big title like that, just knowing that it existed wouldn't really ruin anything for me personally, because then my head would be immediately full of questions like "okay, that's cool, so what are they going to do with the gameplay? How are they going to improve it while still keeping the core of what makes Shenmue, Shenmue? What will it look like? Will it have any new features or modes or anything compared to the other games? What will the size of the game world be? How many NPCs can you interact with, and what will their schedules be, and how detailed and intricate is that stuff compared to past Shenmue games" and stuff like that. I can't imagine not being excited and just like, tossing up the plate of chicken nuggets to quote a certain meme, just because I knew it existed and that itself was spoiled me because what I care about is the game itself, not simply knowing that it exists or not, and just knowing it exists doesn't answer any of those other questions for me at all but rather just raises them in the first place and makes me that more interested in tuning in and finding out what it is or isn't about.
But that's my take, and I understand how people might feel differently. But as for myself, just the mere existence of a game doesn't really spoil me one or the other and just raises more questions which I'm excited to learn the answers for if it's a game I actually care about in any way and in the event it's a game I don't care about, well, the leak is rather beside the point in that case as I wouldn't care either way.
It seems to be a problem for you. You can let me enjoy what I want, tho.
Some people get enjoyment of the announcements and are waiting for them. Even if you think it's ridiculous it's something that isn't harming anyone and there's no need to be dismissive about it.
I'm not someone who cares that much for E3 conferences but I think they create a sort of narrative that some people might enjoy losing themselves into for that hour or so. Of course they are selling stuff but talking about billion dollar corporations or fake trailers isn't really illuminating. The tone of it wasn't that far from calling people sheep. In the grand scheme of things liking the surprises of a marketing event is very low on the list of harmful things.
Of course you should report on whatever you like and nobody should be rude to you. And if they were they should be called out. Personally I think the dismissive tone wasn't really needed.
If it wasn't the E3 demo they would be crunching for some other deadline. The crunch would always be there unfortunetly.
It's alright if someone derives enjoyment from it. I used to. In the end, though, it's news and news cannot be spoiled.
I think it's more tricky than that. Because the conference and the announcements are structured as a narrative so if you say what they are announcing you are spoiling that flow and pacing.
People like that web and flow so they feel spoiled because it kinda is given this context.
Video game conferences are a weird thing these days but for people that enjoy them I can see why they feel it's a spoiler and I don't think there's s need to be dismissive of that.
It's not tricky at all. These events are ultimately marketing events. They are announcements. People can enjoy them if they want, but they should not get mad if someone talks about the leaks before it's officially announced because at that moment, it's news.
You ever hear of Comic Con or Star Wars Celebration?
People act they've cracked the code realizing e3 is a marketing event. Everyone knows that. That doesn't mean it can't be fun or interesting having an event where new games are announced, video shown, creators talking about their projects etc.
I'm on Team Jason. Knowing something is coming is going to make me look out for it. You can not allude to shit and I'm not going to watch your coverage, and I'm probably not going to learn about your title until much, much later unless I'm specifically looking for a dev team product like Kojima.