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AnimaRize

Banned
Nov 7, 2020
3,483
Because their whole system is about a group of friends coming together, working together and beating a much stronger foe, If it is a jrpg with a part it inherently uses the power of friendship, even games like yakuza 7 uses the power of friendship, in order for a Jrpg to not use the power of friendship, you have to have there only be one person playable with no party at all or do like octopath did, the party is there only to be a mechanic, no one is involve with anyone else in their stories
 

Menchi

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,140
UK
Uhh... Lots of JRPGs don't use the "Power of Friendship" trope... Co-operation and shared goals =//= Power of Friendship trope.
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
JRPGs are mostly made for adolescents in Japan.

I don't like it either but that's why I don't play Doki Doki Festival: I Can't Believe My Little Sister Turns Into a Dragon
 

Menchi

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,140
UK
they are working together they are fighting together, they get super attacks by working together, they use the power of friendship

Who are "they" - There are a bunch of JRPGs where there are no "Super attacks" through the power of friendship, that people aren't brought together through friendship, but crossed paths and shared goals... That isn't "Power of Friendship" trope at all.

I'm not denying it is used, but your entire thread is flawed as there are literally games that don't follow the trope at all.
 

pbayne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,340
In Yakuza 7 it somehow works though and comes across as really sweet.
But id say 99% it feels really disingenuous
Tbf i dont think a lot of final fantasys ever played up the trope too much?
 

Doc Kelso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,157
NYC
they are working together they are fighting together, they get super attacks by working together, they use the power of friendship
The entire thrust of any group-driven story is that the group is able to overcome difficulties because they are stronger together than they are as individuals. That's the entire point of having a party--unless you go the Octopath route. In which case, I hope you didn't do the true ending because lol.
 

EntelechyFuff

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Nov 19, 2019
10,142
I'm curious what OP means here:

Is it just "party members work together to do anything"? Cuz yeah, all party-based RPGs have that. I'm not sure how you would even make a party-based RPG without it.

Actually, I take that back: I think I read Octopath Traveler (never played) sort of pulled this off? Like the party members basically never/rarely interact with each other...
 
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AnimaRize

AnimaRize

Banned
Nov 7, 2020
3,483
The entire thrust of any group-driven story is that the group is able to overcome difficulties because they are stronger together than they are as individuals. That's the entire point of having a party--unless you go the Octopath route. In which case, I hope you didn't do the true ending because lol.
which is the power of friendship, call it comrades teammates or whatever that is exactky what the power of friendship is
 

KingM

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,476
People will generally bond when they're working together. It's a natural thing that should happen, it would be odd to go on a years long journey with someone and not have some sense of companionship. A great deal of drama in stories is how people get along and why their dynamic works or doesn't.

It's not some trope, it how humans have existed for millennia.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,497
Spain
If I wanted to see in my spare time a group of people who hate each other but are forced to collaborate, I would work overtime.
 

Doc Kelso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,157
NYC
which is the power of friendship
If you consider that the power of friendship, I'm going to go ahead and say that any form of story that is about a group of individuals working together is a story you should stay away from.

When people talk about the power of friendship trope, they're often referring to something like Naruto where "My friends are my power!!!!" is the literal problem solver.

If I wanted to see in my spare time a group of people who hate each other but are forced to collaborate, I would work overtime.
I said god damn.
 

Menchi

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,140
UK
which is the power of friendship

It literally isn't... That is... co-operation... Unless you think any shared task that is overcome by a team is... Power of Friendship, in which case, literally any game that focuses on more than one character working together is also tied to your (Very incorrect) interpretation of the trope... But you do you!
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,852
They don't in Tactics Ogre, FF Tactics, FFXII and Vagrant Story. Matsuno's games has always been about people banding each other by necessity and respect in the face of a struggle rather than the power of friendship.
 

NeonZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,372
I think multiple people working together for a shared goal is just fine. The issue is that many times it doesn't stop there, and power of friendship becomes an ethereal force that gives the protagonist a power up. He doesn't actually beat the villain due to working with his friends, but because valuing his friends somehow becomes extra power for the hero's party (and in some cases just the main hero, which is rather contradictory).

It doesn't happen in every JRPG though, but it's still oddly common.
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,433
I'm going to be honest, I think power of friendship can be dope, especially when it fits the core themes of the game well (Persona immediately comes to mind in this regard). Like overusing it is bad, but I don't mind it being part of the final push in a final battle when well integrated. Stuff like seeing everyone you've met over your journey cheer you on and give you the strength to beat the big bad can be emotionally powerful if things are executed well

I do agree when it's just an ethereal magic force (as opposed to a motivator, willpower boost) it can suck if there's no good narrative in universe reason for that to matter (so stuff like DB spirit ball or Persona where gaining power from bonds and the human mind is a core part of the world itself are exemptions)
 
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AnimaRize

AnimaRize

Banned
Nov 7, 2020
3,483
It literally isn't... That is... co-operation... Unless you think any shared task that is overcome by a team is... Power of Friendship, in which case, literally any game that focuses on more than one character working together is also tied to your (Very incorrect) interpretation of the trope... But you do you!
accept it is quite literally every game that has a moment of "come on we can beat them if we work together" is using the power of friendship
 

Cess007

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,091
B.C., Mexico
I am saying if they do they are using the power of friendship. they will at one point in every game say i fight with my friends

Cases that come to mind:

- FF12: Outside of Penello and Van, nobody is actually close friends to each other. You can make also a case with Balthier and Fran (even when they say their relationship is purely professional lol) but I doubt the whole group would call themself friends.

- Tales of Berseria. Almost everyone in the party is there for their own interest and outside of Velvet and Laphicet (which have kinda a more sister-brother relation), I doubt any of them would call themself close friends.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,497
Spain
They don't in Tactics Ogre, FF Tactics, FFXII and Vagrant Story. Matsuno's games has always been about people banding each other by necessity and respect in the face of a struggle rather than the power of friendship.
Well, in Final Fantasy Tactics most of the characters hardly add anything to the plot once they join the party. They don't even interact with each other.
 
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AnimaRize

AnimaRize

Banned
Nov 7, 2020
3,483
I think multiple people working together for a shared goal is just fine. The issue is that many times it doesn't stop there, and power of friendship becomes an ethereal force that gives the protagonist a power up. He doesn't actually beat the villain due to working with his friends, but because valuing his friends somehow becomes extra power for the hero's party (and in some cases just the main hero, which is rather contradictory).

It doesn't happen in every JRPG though, but it's still oddly common.
I think people are confusing that I hate the trope i don't, it's just I have come to accept that it's a core part of party based jrpgs,
 

Vyse

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,388
Everyone loves bullying but it's not looked upon favorably by society so JRPGs are the answer where you can bully hardworking Bosses with numbers and label it as the power of friendship, truly one of the most toxic of genres.
 

ash32121

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,563
accept it is quite literally every game that has a moment of "come on we can beat them if we work together" is using the power of friendship
So play game that doesn't have party members if you hate team that much. Or do you prefer your MC big dick energy solo the boss and left the whole party clapping because how strong he is? lol
 

CarlSagan94

Member
Nov 3, 2018
946
Camaraderie isn't the same thing as 'the power of friendship' trope. Going by what you are describing, group based rpgs but also any story where more than one individual cooperates to succeed enters your definition. The trope is when the friendship between characters is the narrative tool itself that solves the story conflict.
 

Melpomene

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jun 9, 2019
18,282
I think people are confusing that I hate the trope i don't, it's just I have come to accept that it's a core part of party based jrpgs,
I think the problem is that you insist that every JRPG has the trope. No one would argue with you if you just said it was a "common element" of many JRPGs. Whereas no one is going to agree with you when you make a blanket generalization and allow zero exceptions.
 

Doc Kelso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,157
NYC
accept it is quite literally every game that has a moment of "come on we can beat them if we work together" is using the power of friendship
I guess I'm confused now because yeah, something like this line is inevitably going to come up in any party-based story; Be it western RPG or JRPG. It's the core mechanic--both from a storytelling perspective and gameplay perspective--of any of these games.

Ultimately you have to justify why a group of people are working together--and are suited to taking on the cause. This ain't a JRPG thing. It's a storytelling thing across all mediums.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,497
Spain
Technically TLOR or Guardians of the Galaxy have "power of friendship". People often call "anime/JRPG tropes" tropes that are universal.
 
Nov 17, 2017
12,864
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RochHoch

One Winged Slayer
Member
May 22, 2018
18,884
There's a bunch that don't, tho

Octopath Traveler, for example. The party don't even interact like at all outside of the occasional party conversation skit, and when the final boss shows up they just beat the shit out of it and leave it at that, no power of friendship required IIRC
 
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AnimaRize

AnimaRize

Banned
Nov 7, 2020
3,483
There's a bunch that don't, tho

Octopath Traveler, for example. The party don't even interact like at all outside of the occasional party conversation skit, and when the final boss shows up they just beat the shit out of it and leave it at that, no power of friendship required IIRC
I wouldn't say a bunch don't i'd say out of 100%, probably 0.1% don't
 
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AnimaRize

AnimaRize

Banned
Nov 7, 2020
3,483
I guess I'm confused now because yeah, something like this line is inevitably going to come up in any party-based story; Be it western RPG or JRPG. It's the core mechanic--both from a storytelling perspective and gameplay perspective--of any of these games.

Ultimately you have to justify why a group of people are working together--and are suited to taking on the cause. This ain't a JRPG thing. It's a storytelling thing across all mediums.
Imean i guess your right, i went to tv tropes to look up other video game examples I has assassin's creed , 2 and brotherhood, stating they use the power of friendship
 

KingM

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,476
accept it is quite literally every game that has a moment of "come on we can beat them if we work together" is using the power of friendship
That's how team based actors activities go though. Like Jordan can't win an NBA championship on his own, Brady has no Super Bowls without a team, and Squall can't stop the sorceress without help. It's not really a trope, just a part of human life.
 

Hentailover

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,416
Moscow
It's mostly just a language issue. They chose to call it something "power for friendship"-ey and stuff, but like, how is it different in practice from regular team work and co-operation? That's all you are ultimately doing. Using synergy and strategy, to combine your party members strengths to overcome the enemy.
 

knightmawk

Member
Dec 12, 2018
7,482
I... I don't understand. Are you saying that any game where the main characters work together they're using "The power of friendship"? Or are you saying it only applies if the characters both work together and are friends? So Gears of War, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, several Halo games... The list goes on.

Unless what makes it "The power of friendship" is just dialogue overtly pointing out that they are working together. Even then, I feel like there's a difference between "We can win this with the power of friendship!" and "If we all hit this guy we can probably take him". Might be a fine line, but it's a line.
 

TaleSpun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,449
Uhh... Lots of JRPGs don't use the "Power of Friendship" trope... Co-operation and shared goals =//= Power of Friendship trope.

People - Americans in particular - don't even notice or process collectivist or altruist themes.

Even if it is "power of friendship" though, what gets me is how much this gets under people's skin, even at a time when the world is practically eating itself alive in large part because of people's emphatic selfishness. Maybe these games spend so much time telling us to care about other people because too many of us still very much need to start doing that.
 

Stencil

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,373
USA
yep, it did

I am saying if they do they are using the power of friendship. they will at one point in every game say i fight with my friends
I mean. It's kind of hard not to feel camaraderie while working together toward a shared goal. Would you rather the party treats each other like coworkers at a middling job? Just kind of, being next to each other but not really talking about anything?
 

brenobnfm

Member
Sep 28, 2019
1,673
Well it's a genre that targets teenagers with some outliers here and there, not much you can do.