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Leviathan

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,065
Every time I've tried Star Citizen during the free to play weekends I've been left with "impressive tech, not a proper game yet". Maybe it's again one of those things that is fun with a group of friends but on your own, it's pretty boring and janky gameplay. Even the first person shooter mode is largely rubbish.

Their roadmap is littered with stuff that does not really make it a significantly more fun game to play and I feel that they don't have their core gameplay right yet. It seems like a massively funded but mismanaged project where they have started from the wrong end before figuring out what the game should be exactly and what makes it fun to play.
This sums up my trial experiences pretty well too. It feels sloppy and janky, and most of their progress has been in a direction that fails to take them towards rounding out the experience I think most people were expecting. It feels like a lot of cool but rough ideas that have little to no chance of being seen through to a satisfying degree of completion.

Plenty of cool flavor and great concepts, but I am very worried about everything in between.
 

Deleted member 22901

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
240
i think there are a lot of aspects of star citizen i find interesting, but the monetization really bothers me. i don't follow the development so i don't know if they've addressed this question, but if a ship costs several thousand dollars, but can also be bought for in game currency, how do they balance that? if it takes an extremely long time to grind for a really neat ship, i don't think i'd want to play that. it would suck if all the best ships were hoarded by a bunch of rich people.
 

SirBaron

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
853
I got the base package with lifetime insurance quite a while back, and while it has some pretty locations and impressive planet tech, I'd say this is still at least 3-5 years away from a "stable" beta release. There's much that's missing and much that needs a huge polish when the content is there.

However I already paid for it, so I can wait.
 

Staticneuron

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,187
Yeah I'm sure it's just Era.

Good call, There are also very strong efforts by those from the Somethingawful forums. Hence the videos, and entire goon efforts to promote Smart idea's and spread his words. Never kept up with them. I wonder if they are still at it. It has been years.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,831
I'll buy Squadron 42 when it releases.

I don't like the way the game is continually funded but I know good people are working on the games and are trying to deliver what the fans have paid for.
 

Sulik2

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,168
If it ever releases it could potentially be pretty incredible. IF it ever releases is the big question to me. Plus I still think its a scam because they refuse to refund my original crowd funding pledge.
 

daegan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,897
Why do we rehash this every couple of weeks? Is there no OT for the game or something?
 

Staticneuron

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,187
I've been following SC's progress on and off since the beginning (as I grew up with Wing Commander, etc.), and been reading about these ship control issues (joystick- related mostly?) almost for as long as I remember in the project's lifetime.

As stupid/naive as this might sound, I honestly don't understand how a space combat sim with Chris Roberts behind it can have bad ship controls. How is this even possible?

If ship controls are really that bad/feel off
Are they waiting for all other systems to be finalized (physics, etc.) and THEN work on ship controls?
Are ship control improvements in their "to-do" list?

I cannot speak for all joystick users. But I have heard of many people that don't have an issue with flying. There are differences between setups though and the most praise I hear are from dual joystick users. Some of the best flying vids are made by people eho play with joysticks such as Terada who uses joysticks and track ir.



• Joysticks : X56G HOTAS & Thrustmaster t16000 FCS
• Rudder : Thrustmaster T3Pa-Pro


i think there are a lot of aspects of star citizen i find interesting, but the monetization really bothers me. i don't follow the development so i don't know if they've addressed this question, but if a ship costs several thousand dollars, but can also be bought for in game currency, how do they balance that? if it takes an extremely long time to grind for a really neat ship, i don't think i'd want to play that. it would suck if all the best ships were hoarded by a bunch of rich people.

The most expensive ships have nothing to do with a single player having fun but differentiate between Solo, multiplayer and org play. One of the most expensive ships in the game take 80 people to man. Not including cost it takes to stock ship, or the fighters the ship can carry. So the larger ships aren't better if you are a solo player or only have a few friends to play with. There I will simply be certain ships that are perfect for your use and have no need to go beyond them. This isn't the type of game where you need to race to get a bigger ship. Being a solo pilot in a large multi crew ship just means you are a very expensive flying target with little to no functionality.

Why do we rehash this every couple of weeks? Is there no OT for the game or something?

There is. But it seems like people don't know about it because very first posts in OT are information dumps about the SC in its current state and provides alot of information about things that seemingly gets asked repeatedly or brought up as concerns.
 
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softtack

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,650
This game at some point in time is going to be compared to Bethesda's Starfield when both are completed and it's going to be crowcbat levels of brutal.

For Bethesda.
 

demondance

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,808
Their business model is in horrible taste, they keep promising unrealistic deadlines, and they've mismanaged the hell out of the game. But yeah, there's some actual... there, there, that a lot of the detractors never acknowledge. It's not like the game's one huge scam, it's just taking forever to become something resembling a 1.0 release.
 

adumb

Banned
Aug 17, 2019
548
User Banned (5 Days): Drive by trolling
I wouldn't call Star Citizen a scam. A cult, maybe.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,051
Whatever happens I at least hope this tech gets shared with other developers somehow. I know some of it ended up in KCD.
 

Disorientator

Member
Oct 27, 2017
388
Cyprus
The way it plays it seems they intend it to be controlled by keyboard and mouse.

Hmm..that's a bummer if true.

Even though I had no problem with Freelancer's keyb/mouse control scheme, with the detailed/immersive spaceship pilot experience it's going for, SC seems like the kind of game that good joystick controls, at least for flight, would be a given.

I cannot speak for all joystick users. But I have heard of many people that don't have an issue with flying. There are differences between setups though and the most praise I hear are from dual joystick users. Some of the best flying vids are made by people eho play with joysticks such as Terada who uses joysticks and track ir.

Interesting, but to be honest different joystick setups shouldn't be such a big deal.
I mean any joystick/rudder combo should play in a sufficiently similar way. (excluding ofcourse advanced axis/button assignments)

Anyways, I guess I'll need to test it at some point.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
45,029
Seattle
Star Citizen is a game i've really enjoyed following from a distance. I really hope they can pull it off, and what is there seems quite promising. I'd love nothing more than for the game to be excellent and a defining moment for the space sim genre.


That is where I'm at, been passively following it since I backed at the lowest tier level, back in 2014?
 

Trickster

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,533
User Banned (3 days): drive-by posting and modwhining
I wouldn't call Star Citizen a scam. A cult, maybe.

At this risk of also getting banned I guess. Why was this a bannable post? Doesn't really seem that far off the mark considering Star Citizen is a game that has a pretty cult like following?
 

tokkun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,400
That's literally most crowdfunded projects . . . Just on a larger scale for Star Citizen.

Star Citizen continued adding stretch goals for a couple years after its Kickstarter ended. I'm not aware of any other projects that have done that.

Crowdfunding should never be viewed as making a purchase.

True, that's what it says in the fine print. What these campaigns advertise in big letters is "Pay $X and receive a copy of the game. Estimated ship date: 20YY." So I imagine that most people think of it as a purchase, consciously or unconsciously.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,374
I have this weird feeling it's going to be this huge, ambitious game but still have that slightly off unpolished indie feel to a lot of parts.
 

tuxfool

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,858
At this risk of also getting banned I guess. Why was this a bannable post? Doesn't really seem that far off the mark considering Star Citizen is a game that has a pretty cult like following?
Why? Because I (and presumably others) reported it. I didn't expect anything to be done, considering how these threads go.

I guess this means this Bullshit can now stop.
 

Staticneuron

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,187
At this risk of also getting banned I guess. Why was this a bannable post? Doesn't really seem that far off the mark considering Star Citizen is a game that has a pretty cult like following?

Because that doesn't provide any conversation it is just a drive by that resorts to name calling. Considering "cult like following" is mainly used as an attack on a persons character instead of a way to refute what is being said. People should be vary wary of talk like that when in a conversation forum, especially when it doesn't open up any real point to discuss.

Star Citizen continued adding stretch goals for a couple years after its Kickstarter ended. I'm not aware of any other projects that have done that.

Would not really be true to state "couple" of years as kickstarter ended in 2013 and last stretch was in 2014. So that was only one year. And even as such, vast majority was superflous content, like a space plant, universe map, ship components, and other small items. If you followed CR' QA videos or read his live letter you would also see that some of the stretch goals were things they planned on for later but moved up because of funding. Either way SC/S42 has increasingly been an odd one out. Have you seen any other Kickstarted game top $250 million from crowdfunding. I don't even recall any game project that topped $20 million.

Now that the crowd-funding has dried up and they are starting to take VC/investor money, I feel like the project is edging closer to collapse and failure.

At the end of 2019, CIG brought in $47.7 million in pledges (and 274,310 new people sign up) which is $10 million more than their most successful year. And that is not even counting the investor money. I don't know where you are getting the insane idea of "dried up" from on the heels of their largest backer year ever.
 
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Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
Now that the crowd-funding has dried up and they are starting to take VC/investor money, I feel like the project is edging closer to collapse and failure.

It is reminding me more and more of the Copernicus/Kingdoms of Amalur MMO that 38 Studios spent tens of millions on before finally running out of money.

If Squadron 42 comes out and is a big hit maybe Star Citizen will see the light of day. If SQ42 has a mediocre performance though, I think they won't be able to finish the full game.
 

tuxfool

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,858
Now that the crowd-funding has dried up and they are starting to take VC/investor money, I feel like the project is edging closer to collapse and failure
Lol.

Why is it that people start with their opinion and then postulate a truth to suit it? Some genuine inability to actually look up easily available data, before opening their traps?

Somehow people think their worldview is powerful enough to reshape reality? It's kind of bizarre.

Which is not to say that it is impossible to argue your case, there is some data with which you might use. But what you proffered has nothing to do with your point.
 
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Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
Why is it that people start with their opinion and then postulate a truth to suit it? Some genuine inability to actually look up easily available data, before opening their traps?

Somehow people think their worldview is powerful enough to reshape reality? It's kind of bizarre.

They sold 10% of the company for $45M, and have been running a cash deficit for several years. What data should I be looking up? They are a privately held company, so their financials are actually kind of difficult to come by because they aren't required to file them with the SEC. They only share that sort of info when they feel like it.

0253570a96344fccbc94519888ff9f09.png
 

tuxfool

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,858
They sold 10% of the company for $45M, and have been running a cash deficit for several years. What data should I be looking up? They are a privately held company, so their financials are actually kind of difficult to come by because they aren't required to file them with the SEC. They only share that sort of info when they feel like it.

0253570a96344fccbc94519888ff9f09.png
None of that VC revenue can be used to develop the game, it's mostly for marketing. And their crowdfunding revenue can't be used for marketing (or any other costs that aren't directly related to development), as per their agreement with backers.

As to your other point. Does this look like crowdfunding revenue is drying up?

E5AJN1J.png
 
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Staticneuron

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,187
But they're nothing alike. Crowbcat makes funny and sometimes disingenous videos.

These are documentaries made about the game. Actually researched documentaries.

Wait, you are saying these FTR videos are not disingenuous? The entire channel has videos, titles and content that is slanted on attacking game, cig and even the backers. I find it hard to believe that anyone who is objective themselves can look at the video uploads of that poster and thing "Yes, this guy seems balanced and fair!"

None of that VC revenue can be used to develop the game, it's mostly for marketing. And their crowdfunding revenue can't be used for marketing (or any other costs that aren't directly related to development), as per their agreement with backers.

And that also doesn't explain claim of "crowd funding drying up" comment which is factually incorrect. The sheer fact it isn't addressed speaks volumes. To anyone who is interested on latest full report they can peruse on their own. You can see it here....

Cloud Imperium Financials for 2018

Following on from last year, we are publishing the Financial Year 2018 Accounting for the Cloud Imperium Group.

EDIT:

As to your other point. Does this look like crowdfunding revenue is drying up?

E5AJN1J.png

Well hold on now, the longer the bar gets, the heavier it must get so anyone carrying that bar will be edging closer to collapse and failure.
 

Filipus

Prophet of Regret
Avenger
Dec 7, 2017
5,128
come on era, show me the haters so i can go buy a new ship. last thread i spent 2k, lets do it
@

Honestly if you feel that strongly about Star Citizen why don't you buy a bunch of copies and do a giveaway?
You would be helping your cause way more than simply buying a ship, and your heart would feel warm and fuzzy instead of rage.

Basically, buy me the game please thank you
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,051
Honestly I just like that there's still at least one PC out there that's saying "fuck limits" and pushing consumer tech as far as possible. We need that when the biggest AAA games these days feel somewhat less ambitious in terms of gameplay.

In terms of gameplay, a lot of the paths forward have been charted by indie games.
 

Altair

Member
Jan 11, 2018
7,901
Only interest I have in it is Squadron 42 and who knows if that will ever even come out.
 

janusff

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,125
Austin, TX
I'll start paying more attention to the game when it gets closer to an actual release. Until then I'll side eye the fact they're selling in game ships for thousands for a game that isn't finished.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,312
I don't get why people cheer against Squadron 42. Don't you people want a half decent Mark Hamill sci-fi showing this millennium?!?!?
 

Effect

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,945
But yeah, it surprised me how impressive Star Citizen is even in its current state. If they get to finish the objectives planned, it's probably going to be the most impressive game ever made, no doubts.
This is the big unknown and negative. There is no doubt that the ambition is there. When it's working and not bugging the hell out it can be fun. It's a matter of can it be finished or gotten to a state where one can claim "finished" as a full product that isn't hiding behind the words "alpha". Then there is the question of time. Current Star Citizen is the result of 7 years of development with many steps forward and many steps backward. For as much as there is stuff in the game that is impressive there is some basic foundation stuff that is straight up unacceptable. Ignore any dates they give for things will be out because they've never meet them and things get delayed years or pieces of things that were promised get released while the rest is pushed back. So it wouldn't be a stretch at all to be here 7 years from now and this beast still hiding behind it's alpha label.

I will say this. Star Citizen looks more impressive then it really is. The cities and planets look really nice until you realize the actual area you can walk around in those cities is very small. What you can interact with is tiny. The planets that are generated (don't have a problem with this at all) are mainly empty save for some buildings placed at certain points. Imagine an open world game with nothing to do that looks nice and blow it up the size of a planet. Elite Dangerous is guilty of this a well with the planets/moons you can land on. So I'm not knocking SC for doing it just that it seems more impressive then it really is that loses its luster very quickly.

Oh and this thing is buggy as all hell and uses up way more resources then it deserves and should. That's why I say "when it's working". I'm going to go as far and say anyone that says it's not buggy as hell is lying. You can deal with the bugs, work around them, you can have good luck and not encounter them, you can have a high tolerance for them but they're there and there are a LOT of them. What it's doing should not demand the system resources it does. That has been one the biggest thing that has pissed me off about Star Citizen for years.

I don't think the game is a scam. Something is being done and you are getting things. Its quality will be highly questionable though. I don't have much faith in S42 turning out well at all. There is nothing I've seen that makes me think anything on that front will be worthwhile in the end outside of looking good. I think there is some chance for Star Citizen itself being a decent product at some point. Highly scaled down to something more manageable.

I think how they fund it is pretty scummy at times though as well as some of the people behind the whole thing.
 
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Megamind.

Member
Nov 18, 2019
1,006
The monetization of the game puts me off of checking it out. Next gen consoles will likely be able to handle this game and ports to it at some point (even if its finished) seem very likely.

Squadron42 is something I might check out once its finished and releases. If its good, releases on console and monetization in it isnt reaching a level that's unacceptable to me.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,165
None of that VC revenue can be used to develop the game, it's mostly for marketing. And their crowdfunding revenue can't be used for marketing (or any other costs that aren't directly related to development), as per their agreement with backers.

As to your other point. Does this look like crowdfunding revenue is drying up?

E5AJN1J.png
Why know anything when you can just shitpost your way to Glory
 
Oct 31, 2017
3,287
I cannot speak for all joystick users. But I have heard of many people that don't have an issue with flying. There are differences between setups though and the most praise I hear are from dual joystick users. Some of the best flying vids are made by people eho play with joysticks such as Terada who uses joysticks and track ir.



• Joysticks : X56G HOTAS & Thrustmaster t16000 FCS
• Rudder : Thrustmaster T3Pa-Pro
Damn, that is some fancy flying.

*Quickly runs to practice low flying on his Super Hornet and instantly crashes into a mountain* 😭
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
Assuming the devs deliver on their promises than it'll probably be on of the best games ever made.

The feature creep is concerning though.
 

MistaTwo

SNK Gaming Division Studio 1
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
2,456
Some of the tech is really incredible to experience, but there are still so many issues present that keep me skeptical about how the final product will shape up.

I love the transparent nature of the development, but it also shows a very unfocused direction at the same time.

I feel key systems like an actually useful interaction system for example should have been implemented years ago, buy the personal thought system they implemented was lackluster IMO.

I also don't really like how opaque they are about their actual end goals. The roadmap is great for explaining top priority goals and other things farther out on the horizon, but a roadmap is nothing without a defined goal at the end. And even after so many years of development I have almost no idea what they would even consider a full 1.0 release of Star Citizen. Is it still the core base of 100 systems that was originally promised?

Maybe I have missed something there though. I don't follow the news as closely as others and just login periodically to fly my ship and attempt to check out the new content (and usually fail to get far) or otherwise I just hear snippets of news from my brother who is fairly active in the community and eagerly awaiting the ability to fly his Carrack after buying it like 5 years ago. Lol
 

Staticneuron

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,187
Assuming the devs deliver on their promises than it'll probably be on of the best games ever made.

The feature creep is concerning though.

Why would you say that when they haven't announced any new features in years? Maybe you are thinking of scope creep. As most of the features and loops were discussed before and scheduled for later dates in time depending on funding.

Some of the tech is really incredible to experience, but there are still so many issues present that keep me skeptical about how the final product will shape up.

I love the transparent nature of the development, but it also shows a very unfocused direction at the same time.

I feel key systems like an actually useful interaction system for example should have been implemented years ago, buy the personal thought system they implemented was lackluster IMO.

I also don't really like how opaque they are about their actual end goals. The roadmap is great for explaining top priority goals and other things farther out on the horizon, but a roadmap is nothing without a defined goal at the end. And even after so many years of development I have almost no idea what they would even consider a full 1.0 release of Star Citizen. Is it still the core base of 100 systems that was originally promised?

Maybe I have missed something there though. I don't follow the news as closely as others
and just login periodically to fly my ship and attempt to check out the new content (and usually fail to get far) or otherwise I just hear snippets of news from my brother who is fairly active in the community and eagerly awaiting the ability to fly his Carrack after buying it like 5 years ago. Lol

Understandable because they put out tons of information and it is hard to keep up. The total system count is still around 100. They are designed by lore team along time ago and you can see them and the descriptions on the star map on RSI's site. The confusion comes in because people are thinking about the original kickstarter, in which game was totally different scope and scale back then.The current system of stanton most likely has a larger play area than the original 100 systems they were planning back during kickstarter, which was basically controlled landing spots and a few hero locations.

So upon enough loops implemented to go wide, Chris was stated between 5-10 playable star systems as a goal, and to be honest, given the scale the systems are at, this should be enough to tide people over as they are pushing out the systems. But here is something you might not know. While introducing the new Planet Tech V4, the team rebuilt all the planet and moons with this tech and it took them two months. And considering they are still working on a few biomes while doing this work only indicates this will be done faster as they complete the variations for the tools to handle.

To put the scale in perspective the smallest moon (yela) as a diameter of 626 km and a surface area of 1.2 million km2 in game while Red Dead Redemption 2 map size is estimated about 47 km2 (29 miles). Did you honestly expect anything of that scale in the original kickstarter?
 
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luffie

Member
Dec 20, 2017
798
Indonesia
Every time I've tried Star Citizen during the free to play weekends I've been left with "impressive tech, not a proper game yet". Maybe it's again one of those things that is fun with a group of friends but on your own, it's pretty boring and janky gameplay. Even the first person shooter mode is largely rubbish.

Their roadmap is littered with stuff that does not really make it a significantly more fun game to play and I feel that they don't have their core gameplay right yet. It seems like a massively funded but mismanaged project where they have started from the wrong end before figuring out what the game should be exactly and what makes it fun to play.
Because many people don't realise that, making all that tech/systems work together to make a cohesive game is a whole different ball game.
One can make a very comprehensive mechanic, but to make that work great as a whole game is a different matter.
 

SRTtoZ

Member
Dec 8, 2017
4,624
Every time I install it I end up uninstalling it after an hour. It just feels like a bunch of buggy ass tech demos taped together. It was too big a project. They should have chose either a SP game OR an MMO, not both. What will most likely happen is they will run out of money before the thing is finished and we will be left with some mashup of a game that's not even close to what they promised. I hope I'm wrong as I have a $140 Freelancer sitting in my Hangar.
 

Staticneuron

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,187
Every time I install it I end up uninstalling it after an hour. It just feels like a bunch of buggy ass tech demos taped together. It was too big a project. They should have chose either a SP game OR an MMO, not both. What will most likely happen is they will run out of money before the thing is finished and we will be left with some mashup of a game that's not even close to what they promised. I hope I'm wrong as I have a $140 Freelancer sitting in my Hangar.

And the chance that that minority investor will ever get their money back (or even make money for that matter).

These post simply sound disingenuous. Mainly because there is alot of content and space to travel and only an hour of play would net you very little experience in terms of gameplay loops. And you are quoting a post I made in jest because people talking about funding don't seem to realize that the minority investment hasn't even been spent yet, which again seems to just expose the level of ignorance people have about the topic despite public facing information that was provided in this thread alone.