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Oct 25, 2017
26,560
One hand, I think that's a bit harsh.

On the other hand, going from the Switch version of Rocket League to the PS4 version of Rocket League made me feel like I was playing it's sequel in terms of visuals. "Switch is closer to Xbox One" MAY be a BIT of a stretch.
 

DongBeetle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,017
i read it, and responded to it, no one is going to pay $100 more for a feature you claim they don't usejust because it is 'iconic''. it's a nonesensical argument to the point where i have to wonder if you even know what drives your own purchasing habits because most people don't behave in that way. it's extremely strange to make this assertion then pair it with the conclusion you have. it reads like (as i've said) working backwards from a conclusion and papering over facts that are inconvenient to your argument. it's extrremely obvious.

tl'dlr
you have nothing.
You responded to a very small sliver of the post. The bulk (90%) of the post hadn't been responded to. I never said people bought it because the feature was iconic lmfao. The feature BECAME iconic because it was so appealing to people. The Switch's primary gimmick of Switching is not secondary to its success. What would you say is primary to the Switch's success if its primary form factor/main advertising appeal is not actually a system seller?

Try not to make this a personal thing or get emotional. It's a game console
 

Nerokis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,562
OK yes it was a lot indulgent. It's clear that a few are getting a little agitated and I might have been mis-interpreted as being aggressive so I'm sorry, I notice I got quoted in a rather lengthy post.

Well, hopefully my ramblings have provided an adequate counter example to that quote. I like the Switch, am glad it is such a massive success, and have been on the "it was conceived primarily within Nintendo's home console tradition" train from the beginning. Some of us home console folks are coming from a place of love!
 

Orioto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,716
Paris
Late on this but as it's been probably said, WiiU was more than PS3/X360 cause tools, rendering techs and gpus evolve. MK8 or BotW would look pretty terrible on those consoles.

But especially, tools and artists are getting better. It's probable an NGC metroid prime would look way better now lol.
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,026
You responded to a very small sliver of the post. The bulk (90%) of the post hadn't been responded to. I never said people bought it because the feature was iconic lmfao. The feature BECAME iconic because it was so appealing to people. The Switch's primary gimmick of Switching is not secondary to its success. What would you say is primary to the Switch's success if its primary form factor/main advertising appeal is not actually a system seller?

Try not to make this a personal thing or get emotional. It's a game console
the primary sales driver is people use it for both. that's kind of the point. that is clear. And when given the choice, they generally chose the $100 dollar more expensive hybrid option. This would all be the end of the discussion if you weren't so steadfast and insistent in your analysis that Switch is a handheld, it clearly isn't based on the sales performance of the handheld only Switch, Nintendo's own marketing, and consumer preference for its use cases.

as for making things personal, i pointed out a logical fallacy in your post, and you have so far not really dispelled that, i think you're the one making it personal tbh.
 

DongBeetle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,017
the primacy sales driver is people use it for both. that's kind of the point. that is clear. And when given the choice, they generally chose the $100 dollar more expensive option. This would all be fine if you weren't so steadfast and insistent in your analysis that Switch is a handheld, it clearly isn't based on the performance of the handheld only Switch and its use cases.

as for making things personal, i pointed out a logical fallacy in your post, you have so far not really dispelled that. i think you're the one making it personal tbh.
It's not a fallacy. You have no idea what my personal buying habits are so don't be weird lol. Yes I agree most people use the docking/Switching gimmick (my whole point). This necessitates the Switch being a handheld
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,647
I knew this thread would be nothing but bickering lol

But I agree. Regardless if you wanna throw in tools, libraries, whatever you wanna call it. What I see on my damn tv is wii u 1.5 at best.
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,026
It's not a fallacy. You have no idea what my personal buying habits are so don't be weird lol. Yes I agree most people use the docking/Switching gimmick (my whole point). This necessitates the Switch being a handheld
yes because you can't bring a gaint brick with you on a train. That's just circular logic. Maybe english isn't your first language but saying Switch uses mobile SoC/tech is non controversial, because it does.

Saying it is a handheld is completely missing the point, either on purpose or just a lack of understanding. So which is it?

As for my comments on your buying habits, it was a genuine comment as to how you could call consumers paying more for the non handheld only option as justification for it being a handheld. it's like wtf kind of logic.
 

DongBeetle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,017
yes because you can't bring a gaint brick with you on a train. That's just circular logic. Maybe english isn't your first language but saying Switch uses mobile SoC/tech is non controversial, because it does.

Saying it is a handheld is completely missing the point, either on purpose or just a lack of understanding. So which is it?

As for my comments on your buying habits, it was a genuine comment as to how you could call consumers paying more for the non handheld only option as justification for it being a handheld. it's like wtf kind of logic.
I never said it wasn't genuine thought of yours haha. I just said it was weird lol Wow another comment lol you don't think that maybe you're taking this a bit too seriously? The Switch's primary gimmick revolves around it being a handheld. Like that's the entire point. People bought it for the docking experience, as such people bought it because it's a handheld. Just because it slots into a piece of plastic (literally all it is lmfao) does not make it any less of a handheld
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,026
I never said it wasn't genuine thought of yours haha. I just said it was weird lol Wow another comment lol you don't think that maybe you're taking this a bit too seriously? The Switch's primary gimmick revolves around it being a handheld. Like that's the entire point. People bought it for the docking experience, as such people bought it because it's a handheld. Just because it slots into a piece of plastic (literally all it is lmfao) does not make it any less of a handheld

This is the post I responded to. So i don;t even know what you're on about now. Seems like the end of the road for this discussion.
To anyone with a brain the Switch is VERY clearly a handheld.
 

night814

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,036
Pennsylvania
Luigis-Mansion-GameCube-480x360.jpg

WCCFluigismansion37-1030x579.jpg


Its practically the same image!!
See now this is a really good comparison. If MP remake is even anything close to this level of glow up it's gonna be incredible
 

DongBeetle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,017
This is the post I responded to
I honestly did not realize you were unaware of the Switch being a handheld. That's my mistake, I wasn't referring specifically to you but I'm sorry if I ended up indirectly doing so. It was rude and I could've used different language. All I was trying to say that it's clear as day to most people that the Switch is a small tablet device with a screen which is also handheld
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,026
See now this is a really good comparison. If MP remake is even anything close to this it's gonna be incredible
in terms of computaitonal power the Switch GPU is at least 10x the GameCube's in portable mode, even if we don't account for architectural differences etc, so it's not really only a step up from GameCube either.
 

Vector

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,641
Their sales numbers say otherwise. That's really what it all comes down to.

Remember when the NSO Expansion pricing was announced and we all said "OH HELL NO!" But then practically everyone on family plans--and many that weren't--subscribed anyway, and now it feels like most of us have it. As long as we continue to eat what they serve, they will continue marching to the beat of their own drum...

...you know? They're probably going to do that anyway.
As a Nintendo customer for the past 15 years, I can safely say I'm never buying hardware from them again after all the troubles I've had with my switch (and previously my 3DS but those were far lesser) - Nintendo has damaged the trust I had in them so much that I'm no longer interested in buying their products unless they go back to Wii/DS grade hardware quality.

My Wii has been through hell since I bought it and it's currently in better shape than my Switch, which had 3 pairs of Joycon die on me, screen scratches from the dock, the vents melted off and the kickstand fell off, the Joycon rails are loose etc.

I'm sure I'm not the only one.
 

Simba1

Member
Dec 5, 2017
5,383
It's not impressive at all in 2021. We have multiple year old iPhones that have more graphical horsepower than the Switch at this point. And then look at the Steam Deck, which runs circles around the Switch. Not to mention technologies like xCloud & Stadia that are increasingly making the need for packing all of that horsepower into a mobile device for gaming obsolete.

Switch is not released in 2021. it was released almost 5 years ago and Steam Deck still isnt released,
saying that, we should have new generation of Switch in around 1.5-2 years with DLSS.
 

Bob Beat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,916
Not really an excuse with the Steam deck coming this winter, if Switch 2 doesn't come out in 2022 expect a lot more of this type of discussion.....it's painfully dated technology at this point and will continue to hold back some of gamings most beloved IPs for as long as it is developed for

I know Nintendo doesnt want to give up that user base but make the Switch 2 backwards compatible and everything will inevitably pan out imo
Isn't steam deck $600 us dollars? Coming out in 2022? 5 years after the switch launch?
 

Simba1

Member
Dec 5, 2017
5,383
Are...

Are you me?

I actually hope Metroid Prime does NOT come out on the current Switch, but on the successor. Because...just look at Dread: Amazing art style and design, with jaggies and low res assets everywhere.

Metroid Prime deserves more.


Of Course that Metroid Prime (both remaster and MP4) will be launch on current Switch units, there no reason to think other way.

Unlike Dread, MP4 will run at 60 frames AND have fantastic art direction. That's all I really care about tbh.

Dread also runs at 60 FPS.


Metroid Prime was an incredible looking game in 2002 that also ran at a rock solid 60fps. There's no way a Metroid Prime remake on Switch would hit both criteria by 2022 standards.

Metroid Prime will be more remaster than full remake, but you could expect rock solid 60 FPS in any case.
 

Simba1

Member
Dec 5, 2017
5,383
Late on this but as it's been probably said, WiiU was more than PS3/X360 cause tools, rendering techs and gpus evolve. MK8 or BotW would look pretty terrible on those consoles.

But especially, tools and artists are getting better. It's probable an NGC metroid prime would look way better now lol.

Wii U also have something like 3x more RAM available for games than PS3/X360 had.


I understand the logic that Wii was basically a gamecube, and switch is basically a Wii U.

But are we arguing that the switch's capability could have affordably come out in some form back in 2005? Is that what we're saying?

Wii is basically clocked GameCube, but Switch is much more than Wii U, Switch is around 2.5x stronger than Wii U, while Wii is around 0.5x stronger than GC.
 

Simba1

Member
Dec 5, 2017
5,383
The thing is, there's no reason to believe that Nintendo's next system is going to be up to modern standards either. They have not chased that since the Gamecube. I was hopeful for a Switch Pro but at this point I'm just done expecting that from them. The Wii and Switch have been their biggest successes while their actual steps towards modern quality (Gamecube and arguably the Wii U) did nowhere near as well. I don't know what Nintendo's next gimmick will be, but it will have one. Even if they just make a Switch 2 and do the handheld thing again, that will continue to hold back the console aspect of their hardware.

The solutions are to either deal with it or wait for fans to do it themselves with emulators and mods, like they tend to do.

Depends, what you mean when you say modern standards?

For instance, Switch actually had more modern/tech architecture when it was launched than XB1/PS4 had when they were launched, Switch used one of best mobile solutions for gaming console when was built.
For Switch "Pro" or Switch 2 is heavily rumored it will use DLSS, but again we talking about portable form factor where you have limitation of heat in form factor and batter life,
so you couldnt really be compare with full home consoles (like PS5) that have power consumption of 100W+.

If I'm counting correctly there are…11 Nvidia GPU architecture generations between the PS3's GPU and the Switch's GPU.

The Switch isn't a powerhouse but from any rational standpoint it's also really, really dissimilar in capabilities to ~2006 era hardware.

This, and yet you have some people saying that they are same gen.


Yeah it's a real bummer, it's not even (completely) about the graphics, but the performance. Some people like to flip to the "Well it's really a handheld" argument, but I think by those standards it's an even worse console. Was really pulling for that Switch Pro...

To be fair, performance is of 90% of all Nintendo releases is good, mostly are problem PS4/XB1 ports.
 

Bait02

Member
Jan 5, 2019
645
Well while this is quite a take, I agree the Switch is starting to show its age in late 2021.
That said I'm quite optimist about it's successor, considering the advancements of mobile SoCs and nivida's gpus.
 

Necromanti

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,546
The biggest issue I'd foresee is as the performance gap widens, multi-platform games will have worse and worse performance on Nintendo hardware. I feel like we're past the days where distinct or tailored versions of games for weaker systems are made. Though I feel like even exclusive and first-party developed games have had more noticeably suboptimal performance lately.
 

Simba1

Member
Dec 5, 2017
5,383
People comparing switch to PS4 seem to be blinded by bias or wishful thinking. i want to see a game on switch where it comes remotely close to red dead redemption, tlou2, horizon, or even the order 1886. There isn't, nothing is even close.

Compare the best looking switch games to TLoU and uncharted 3 and the difference isn't that big. Switch is definitely stronger than a PS3, but let's not kid ourselves and think its on the PS4 or xbox one level.

The witcher 3 argument is rather invalid. It looks like trash on switch, and its not even in the top 20 best looking games on PS4.

Dont take the best looking switch games and compare them to mediocre PS4 games, and say they are on almost on the same level while ignoring the huge difference in resolution and sometimes even framerate. Its like saying PS4 and PS3 are on the same level because PS3 can run battlefield 4 but on a lower res, lower textures and shittier framerate, but hey, it can still run it.

No one saying that Switch is on pair with XB1/PS4, just are people saying that Switch isnt on PS3 level also.

Look for instance at Luigis Mansion 3 or Mario Kart 8 Deluxe with locked frame rate, both run at 1080p and both could easily pass like PS4 games, while on PS3 most impresive games are 720p with not good frame rate.
But if you really want to see comparison between PS3 and Switch, than simple compare same games that are on PS3 and Switch, games like Alien Isolation, Crysis 1-3, Skyrim, Darksiders 1, Red Faction Guerrilla, Dragons's Dogma, Burnout Paradise, Resident Evil, Diablo, Minecraft and others, where you have situation that all those games runs at higher resolution on Switch, improved graphic and more stable/better frame rate, and you also ahve stuff like Dying Light, which was cancelled for PS3 and 360 for technical limitations and just came out fine on the Switch.
 

fourfourfun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,680
England
PS1 > PSP > PS2

PS2 > Vita > PS3


NES > GBC > SNES

SNES > GBA > PS1

PS1 > NDS > N64

Wii > 3DS > PS3

PS3 > Switch > PS4

PS4 > Switch2??? > PS5

That's what I reckon. Switch 2 will bring resolution and framerate stability (at 30fps, but locked). It will have the benefits of a better architecture than a PS4, so could stretch to adapting new gen titles that would be out of its reach due to things like data access speeds and stuff, but it won't be doing what they do by any stretch. What we have now is fidelity, lighting and the push for 4k as the main hallmarks.

If we're still doing things like we do now in the world of hardware, that'll be Switch 3. PS5 and whatever Microsoft are doing will be locked 4k60 with RT and pushing for things like 8K and/or 120fps.

Patcher mode off.
 

Zombegoast

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,224
The Wii U also had MK8 which at 720p and 59fps with deferred rendering which needed to be done on the PS3's Cell Processor and the 360's eDram and both can't deliver native HD resolution at 30fps

I doubt XCX would run on the 7th gen system with how densely populated the game world is and New LA expands
 

catashtrophe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,111
UK
As someone who only started really getting into PC gaming back end of last year and seen the magic that is DLSS.

If Nintendo and Nvidia play their cards right and make sure the Switch successor has DLSS its gonna be pretty amazing
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,010
I think people forget is that the switch is portable hardware. Stop comparing it to tethered consoles.
 

D.Lo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,348
Sydney
Gamecube RAM: 27MB (for games) at 324 MHz

Switch RAM: 3073MB (for games) at 1600 MHz

Yeah you got it. Looks like a one generation leap to me.
 

Tinman

Member
Nov 1, 2017
70
Yeah I suppose, but I've always felt that a better comparison for the Switch is the jump between handheld generations. We've gone from 3DS and Vita to something that is more like a portable Xbox 360.
 
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