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It's PRIDE MONTH - How has this gen done for LGBTQ+ representation?
- Thread starter BAD
- Start date
J.J. Macfield from The MISSING is fantastic. That's a great story that badly needs more attention. Had a profound impact on my life.
There is a lesbian android couple in a chapter who outright say they are in love. You can let them escape or shoot them when they fight you Blade Runner style or throw the fight. Sparing them is seen as the good option. If they live they appear throughout in other chapters holding hands and looking at you from the background.
Also the black protagonist Markus can built a close friendship with a dude who is the only one that sacrifices himself for the protagonist if you mess up the same way the hetero romance option does. The sacrifice involves the literal exchange of each other's hearts. Not fully confirmed gay, but Cage said in an AMA when asked he is fine with that interpretation of their friendship and they wanted to film more explicit romance options but there wasn't enough time to follow through
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I have this gut feeling that Ellie's girlfriend is gonna die in TLOU2 and that's why she's out for revenge. Because nothing says representation like dead lesbians. I'd love to be wrong but I'm not getting my hopes up.
Mae as well seems to be bi, though the game doesn't highlight it too often as the game is mostly focused on her condition and depression.
But there's a lot of really cool interactions she has with some of the people around town, especially if you talk to them every day.
I literally just finished Syndicate last night and I was extremely disappointed there wasn't a hint at bi whatsoever. It's one of those things that they just tacked on later in like interviews since he didn't have a love interest. He gets kissed by a villain but it's in non-consensual get away from me kind of way, so how does that even count.
Even better: according to the writers, said non-consensual kiss was his bi awakening which you know... grody
I think we're at a point where representation needs to be genuine deep representation of relationships. Writing of romantic relationships in major games has always been pretty awful, it's completely simplistic stereotypical nonsense. People need to see real LGBTQ relationships (as well as real heterosexual relationships) to have true diversity. Especially kids, kids are growing up playing these games that are as bad or worse than the worst romcom or michael bay "romance" plot lines in movies. Considering right wing lunatics constantly push against relationship and sexual education in school these kids are literally learning everything from games and porn. It is not acceptable on any level and it's extremely detrimental to people's growth.
Not to pick nits, but The Last of Us was last gen, and the sequel doesn't yet exist.
What was the game from a couple of years ago where someone in the press looked through the code and reported that 'all women are bisexual, and no men are bi'.
Breath of the Wild was a disappointment with its negative portrayal of gay men and transgender folk.
What was the game from a couple of years ago where someone in the press looked through the code and reported that 'all women are bisexual, and no men are bi'.
Breath of the Wild was a disappointment with its negative portrayal of gay men and transgender folk.
She confirms it when Gregg and Angus bemoan the fact they're the only queer people in town.
I can't take Mortal Kombat's LGBT+ representation seriously while they pay Ronda Rousey to be in the game.
This is really going to depend on the environment you grew up in. Speaking personally, I grew up in a male-dominated environment during the 90s, so I am not an enormous fan. Queer was invariably always used in a derogatory fashion rather than as a term of empowerment in my vicinity.
RimWorld
How RimWorld's Code Defines Strict Gender Roles
Reed’s having a bad day: her spaceship crashed, she’s one of three survivors, and the other two won’t stop hitting on h…
www.rockpapershotgun.com
With regards to game related content, saw this recently on my TL:
Lots of people rightfully upset at big companies co-opting Pride month.
Which reminds me of the recent discussion about transexual dwarves in Dwarf Fortress: https://www.resetera.com/threads/fa...-going-to-include-transgender-dwarves.115735/
Lots of people rightfully upset at big companies co-opting Pride month.
RimWorld
How RimWorld's Code Defines Strict Gender Roles
Reed’s having a bad day: her spaceship crashed, she’s one of three survivors, and the other two won’t stop hitting on h…
Which reminds me of the recent discussion about transexual dwarves in Dwarf Fortress: https://www.resetera.com/threads/fa...-going-to-include-transgender-dwarves.115735/
Might have been mentioned in the 5 pages already but a shout out to Watch_Dogs 2 which had a transsexual woman in a position of power and treated respectfully.
Really disappointing he didn't make it in, especially with Rhonda Rousey voicing Sonya. Makes Jacqui flying pride colors for him feel hollow.
You also had Mileena and Tanya, who again didn't make the transition from MKX.
1 couple and that's it from what i remember. he was too busy making race allegories
We actually had LGBTQ+ characters in Agents of Mayhem, but so few people played it that it isn't even on the wiki linked earlier.
Representation is really something games both need to be better about including, but even ones that do need to do a better job of how they include it. As both a dev and father to someone who identifies as gender fluid, I want to see more games have characters that members of the community can identify with. When attempting to be inclusive, dev teams shouldn't just make assumptions, and should instead talk to members of their team that identify as LGBTQ+ that are willing to make sure that said inclusivity isn't exploitative. We (devs) need to be better.
Representation is really something games both need to be better about including, but even ones that do need to do a better job of how they include it. As both a dev and father to someone who identifies as gender fluid, I want to see more games have characters that members of the community can identify with. When attempting to be inclusive, dev teams shouldn't just make assumptions, and should instead talk to members of their team that identify as LGBTQ+ that are willing to make sure that said inclusivity isn't exploitative. We (devs) need to be better.
yeah it's improved but not by much. In some ways it feels like it's gone down in recent years, with fewer games allowing for even optional same-sex romance paths, and the ones that do messing it up (AC: Odyssey). Bioware and other studios going down the essentially blank protagonist GaaS model has really restricted things.
The indie space is basically the only place it's really growing.
I just wish more Japanese developers would lean into it and not just lean on vague suggestion. Tales of Zestiria would have been great if it actually committed to Sorey and Mikleo's relationship instead of doing a JK Rowling and confirming it after the fact.
Also I figure we're years away from seeing two men kiss during an E3 Press Conference trailer.
The indie space is basically the only place it's really growing.
I just wish more Japanese developers would lean into it and not just lean on vague suggestion. Tales of Zestiria would have been great if it actually committed to Sorey and Mikleo's relationship instead of doing a JK Rowling and confirming it after the fact.
Also I figure we're years away from seeing two men kiss during an E3 Press Conference trailer.
The problem is you are praying to the wrong God, game writters aren't suddendly gonna put better romance on screen in a game when not even schools (or hell, movies) are leading the way, they are the ones that should be pushed to change society, writting in games is too incompetent/simple for this stuff (but they can improve)
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Yeah It's intresting that glancing through this thread there are more women represented than men. Probably because of this
We need some trans folk, gender quer/fluid, non-binary, etc... MCs in (AAA prominent games specifically) quite badly.
It's usually the "bi-sexual" route to keep the usual suspects happy while holding up the representation flag to those of us looking for it.
It's something, but it isn't enough.
It's usually the "bi-sexual" route to keep the usual suspects happy while holding up the representation flag to those of us looking for it.
It's something, but it isn't enough.
Depends on where you are. Also, "gay" is pretty specifically "someone who likes the same gender", not anybody under the rainbow.
(I also think LGBTQ+ is clunky as shit)
Agree that devs need to showcase gay relationships and normalize openly queer and trans people. The whole subtext game is outdated.
Btw, no such thing as "well they're trying," because they're literally creating these worlds from scratch, guys. You either represent people well or you don't.
Btw, no such thing as "well they're trying," because they're literally creating these worlds from scratch, guys. You either represent people well or you don't.
As a few people have pointed out it's definitely been reclaimed, but I also think the severity depends on where you live. Personally speaking, as someone from the north of England, the only time I ever heard "queer" was that one episode of the Simpsons. "Gay" was thrown around as a derogatory word way more often. It still kinda is, but only by really clueless people.
Reclamation is a great thing since it takes away ammunition.
Reminds how great the player customization in Saints Row 4 was. One of the few that allows androgynous and gender fluid player creations.
Can't really say I've noted much change or specific characters this gen. Granted, I've barely played games from this 'gen', but I've still had my eyes peeled.
Like.. there's Jespar, I guess? From Enderal. I liked the character, and the 'implementation', I guess. Other than that, I can't really recall any standouts.
Like.. there's Jespar, I guess? From Enderal. I liked the character, and the 'implementation', I guess. Other than that, I can't really recall any standouts.
Games need to be more queer. Honestly nothing has really changed since last gen, other than a couple more devs are doing it. Indies are were they are really at.
At least Ladiva is carrying the flag for fighting games. Because what's a gacha game? That's not a game. Look at this real game. WITH LADIVA
trans righthook
At least Ladiva is carrying the flag for fighting games. Because what's a gacha game? That's not a game. Look at this real game. WITH LADIVA
trans righthook
You don't even need to stretch it this far for Undertale. I mean, outside of silly marketing material goofs, Undertale and Deltarune already features a WLW couple, a MLM couple, multiple non-binary characters and one major trans character and a minor trans NPC.
No, this is just from what I've heard from people who played Death of the Outsider(I haven't).
I'm sorry but every single character out there that doesn't have any actual representation of their sexuality in-game gets crossed off the already tiny list. Yeah i'm talking to you Overwatch/Apex Legends. Those kind of games don't lend themselves to plot anyway so having the odd character "confirmed" to be whatever in some wiki or random twitter post is just such lazy pandering. You made a game in which all you do is shoot people, don't try and give it more "substance" by dropping in a gay.
The popularity of open world games with a focus on tailoring the characters to the players own choices is also a bit of a cop out i reckon. There is nothing risky about giving your generic protagonist flexible gender or sexuality options because it can be completely ignored by someone who doesn't choose those options. I will be impressed when there is a strong narrative driven game with an LGBTQ+ person with no ambiguity, no coy fade to black during a sex scene, i want that shit front and centre with nowhere to hide. And if it makes straight people uncomfortable that's tough shit.
Thinking about this i was reminded about the brilliant (and sadly cut down in its prime) Netflix show Sense8. That show is pretty much a poster child for wonderful, charismatic and diverse characters. One of the first scenes in the show depicts the aftermath of two female characters having just had sex. There is this great shot of a used dildo/strap-on dropping on the floor which didn't shock me (i'm gay and grew up in Holland so little does) but it did take me back purely because of how unusual it is to see such a frank and honest depiction of sex between two woman (one of whom is trans).
I want that kind of honest and frank depiction of LGBTQ+ characters in videogames. But i'm jumping the boom boom gun (Copyright: Gia Gunn) on this one because god knows i can't think of any decent and well written straight relationships in videogames let alone those with a queer slant.
The popularity of open world games with a focus on tailoring the characters to the players own choices is also a bit of a cop out i reckon. There is nothing risky about giving your generic protagonist flexible gender or sexuality options because it can be completely ignored by someone who doesn't choose those options. I will be impressed when there is a strong narrative driven game with an LGBTQ+ person with no ambiguity, no coy fade to black during a sex scene, i want that shit front and centre with nowhere to hide. And if it makes straight people uncomfortable that's tough shit.
Thinking about this i was reminded about the brilliant (and sadly cut down in its prime) Netflix show Sense8. That show is pretty much a poster child for wonderful, charismatic and diverse characters. One of the first scenes in the show depicts the aftermath of two female characters having just had sex. There is this great shot of a used dildo/strap-on dropping on the floor which didn't shock me (i'm gay and grew up in Holland so little does) but it did take me back purely because of how unusual it is to see such a frank and honest depiction of sex between two woman (one of whom is trans).
I want that kind of honest and frank depiction of LGBTQ+ characters in videogames. But i'm jumping the boom boom gun (Copyright: Gia Gunn) on this one because god knows i can't think of any decent and well written straight relationships in videogames let alone those with a queer slant.
I have definitely seen more this gen than any other, though there is still a long way to go. Tracer and Solider 76 are great, but they literally never mention that in-game (or pretty much anything else regarding backstory). Iron Bull was tastefully done, Dorian was good (didn't use him much, was usually a mage), and Sylvano was one of the best reps of queers in JP gaming (I would actually say he was the best if they had bothered to use the word queer even once in the game) and while it is choose your own no one was shy about same sex romance in DoS 2. And that's just what I have personally played among big budget releases, there have been so many indies I have had fun with as well. Many are simply choose your own or have them as plot points, but that alone is a lot for me. Some ones I have played (that are at least good, usually great or better) include House of Fata Morgana, Stardew Valley, My Time at Portia, Pillars of Eternity, Pathfinder: Kingmaker, Firewatch, Monster Prom, Tokyo Afterschool Summoners, and Bastard Bonds. Enjoyed my time with all of them and I am sure quite a few would be considered "recommended" by a lot of folks here.
Next big budget releases I am interested in that would likely have reps are Vampire the Masquerade 2, Cyberpunk 2077, and (cautiously hopeful after Leon in SoV and the unconfirmed spoilers I have read) Fire Emblem Three Houses. Again, there's a lot more that could be done and I can totally understand being unhappy with a lot of the representation, but I personally like to give companies props when they bother to do a good job.
Next big budget releases I am interested in that would likely have reps are Vampire the Masquerade 2, Cyberpunk 2077, and (cautiously hopeful after Leon in SoV and the unconfirmed spoilers I have read) Fire Emblem Three Houses. Again, there's a lot more that could be done and I can totally understand being unhappy with a lot of the representation, but I personally like to give companies props when they bother to do a good job.
agreed :\ on the plus side there is a lot of good indie game creators out there with good writing. But yea, AAA game writing is beyond atrocious, though it is getting better. I mean who knows, maybe gaming will lead the way in media diversity in another few decades as it continues to grow? I try to remain hopeful :)
It's a reclaimed word. Plus there's a lot of people under the umbrella who aren't strictly gay.
Also it's so much less work to type than than the full lbgt+++++++
I just remembered, though a pretty minor NPC, there is a trans woman in Lion's Arch, who went through the transition with the help of mesmer magic after the battle of Lion's Arch. Was added by Jessica Croft (who is a trans woman).
I look at it as one of those things where they had a really solid, well developed theme about growing up, accepting responsibility, facing the past, and learning the hard truth that some consequences need to be lived with rather than dealt with AND they also wanted to push representation in a positive way, it just so happened that their theme and that goal of positive representation unfortunately crossed in an unintended "kill your gays" sort of way.
I wouldn't want the game without either of those things, and in the end although it is unfortunate I believe the game is still stronger for having both.
To be fair, they're kind of close beforehand and you can tell throughout their story arc that Jacob feels some sort of connection with him so it's not like it comes completely out of nowhere. There's a build-up to it. The main problem IMO is just that the game never really hints at their connection possibly being of a romantic and/or sexual nature. It can all be read as purely platonic on Jacob's side.
I can appreciate that they wanted to tell a story with those themes, and for the most part I think they did a good job. My major problem is I think they handled their ending very poorly, and their decision to not make Max a cannon LGBTQ character lead to some uncomfortable implications. The way the story plays out it kind of feels like the two cannon queer women, both of whom had troubled home lives and in one's case major depression, had to die to teach the less developed more middle class girl to be decisive and have confidence.
I am vastly oversimplifying the themes and story I know, but the developers not having Max be cannon LGBTQ really hurts the story in my opinion, and opens it up to being considered a Bury Your Gays story. I understand that the game sort of presented itself as being a vehicle for player choice, but the lack of player agency heading towards a binary ending kind of weaken that position. The fact that you can only really kiss Chloe in one of the endings, and the Bae ending is so much weaker than the other also sort of irritates the issue for me.
I do consider LiS a positive step forward, and I admire the game for a bunch of reasons, I just have some lingering issues with some of the story choices they made. Maybe they addressed some of my problems in that comic book they were going to make. I also acknowledge that part of the reason I judge this game so harshly is that there are very few games that are willing to use these kinds of characters. If there was more representation, I would probably feel less upset. I am really sorry if I seem rude or combative on this subject. You make a really valid case, and my frustration isn't exactly fair and unbiased. I hope my points make a little sense at least.
Absolutely, yeah it's a difficult subject because there is this dearth of LGBTQ representation of gaming it makes the implications of this ending stand out all the more
I just made a thread on Ladvia a trasnwomen from Granblue talking about how twitter is going crazy for her .
I embedded some tweets that give her backstory and i think shes great
I embedded some tweets that give her backstory and i think shes great
How will TLOU2 deal with Ellie's homosexuality? Will it factor heavily into the story in a significant way, or will it mainly focus on her relationship and her girlfriend with little else factoring into the plot?