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Richter1887

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
39,146
Disclaimer: I am not telling you not to enjoy things, (Hell I do enjoy things that are still bad influence) but I do hate the term "It's just a game" as an excuse for everything.

This phrase has been coming a lot these couple of days mostly in the Modern Warfare topics but I feel it deserves a thread focused on it.

So I am making this thread to discuss how gaming does affect the player in various way, some does it in very smallway and some do it in a huge way. No matter what game it is, it will always have something to affect you.

Lets start with games like Call of Duty since it is the most recent thing. You have people who call it "The Michael Bay of gaming" as if it is somehow supposed to be dumb and not serious. But honestly? The game is affecting people and in a big way. I said this example in my other posts in the other threads but I will say it again, back in school when I was a teen and CoD4/MW2/BO etc was all the rage, I have personally seen people who started getting interested in going to the military to and I quote: "Kill terrorists in the middle east". Now here is the thing, CoD4 doesn't even provide an idea of how it is to be in a war, how horrible it is or even how the middle east is. You have people screaming american pig this, american pig that in arabic and this is basically the only thing the player hears you don't understand the language, and even if you do, the enemies in the game have no personality and only one voice actor which make them cartoonishly evil instead of real people.

It is so bad that I had people in class explain to me in detail how they would kill people and different methods. When I heard this I was wondering what the hell is even going on with these people. I come from a war torn country and imigrated to Norway and yet I hear people who never once seen war start wanting to join the military to kill people. Keep in mind these people are still young teenagers (around 15 years old). Now to be fair to the games, they do attempt to criticize war and all that (though it fails pretty horribly), you have the scene with the bomber plane which tasks you at killing people while your comrades are cracking jokes praising you for getting "good kills", You also have the No Russian level with you commiting a terrorist attack. However I am willing to bet that most people went through these levels and didn't even realize what they meant or why they are there, instead they were "fun and unique" (trust me I heard this phrase from many different people). It just flew past their heads.

Now we have the Modern Warfare reboot that is attempting to be serious and mature while still attempting to be badass and fun which to me sounds stupid. War isn't fun, especially wars that are still going on in the world and people are getting affected by it, wether by losing their loved ones or various different ways like living in fear or not being able to have food and water. It is really in poor taste and no matter how much they try I am willing to bet most people who play the game won't get the points they are trying to make, just like No Russian didn't, just like the plane bomber mission didn't. At the end of the day it will be a game about mindlessly killing people for most players, especially in the multiplayer mode.

You want a good anti war game that does show how war is? Check out Spec Ops The Line. The story of that game deconstructs the many war games we have.

With CoD out of the way, I would like to talk about how other games affect the player from my experience.

-Racing games like Gran Turismo are one example of games that make me start having even more interest in cars. The whole career mode make me feel like if I want to try pro racing because it sounds like it could be really fun (even though it is surely not as easy as the games make it out to be). Need for Speed made me have fantasies about outlaw street racing.

-Then you have games like God of War 4 which is about parenthood and raising kids at it's core. Sure the game is also about being a god and killing beasts and gods but underneath that you have a deep story that does start affect your thinking. It made me think of things I never thought about before when it comes to my father and how he might have felt before I was born.

-Skate made me want to try out skateboarding even though I am very sure I would suck at it and would only go back home to play more Skate.

-Sport games make me feel as if I should give the sport a try.

-Castlevania games made me interested in the Dracula story which only lead me to read something that was written based on the rich and the poor. It also made me a fan of many horror classic movies.

I could go on but the point is almost every game does make you feel something, how much it affects you depends on the game itself. How it presents something could influence you, Positively or negatively.

While I am at it I would recommend you people to read the thread: Why women criticise sexualised character designs (at the very least read the threadmarks).

It provides an example similiar to my point and should be a required read for anybody curious why there is complaints about sexualized character designs. (Hint: because it affects the way some people look at women and how women are treated).
 
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oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,002
UK
I've always found it odd that people can sign up to an enthusiast gaming forum and then dismiss games as "just games" the soon as anyone wants to actually discuss them
 

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,538
"It's just games" when talking about possible problematic aspects of videogames has always been the lamest of dismissals.

Also, most war games are pro-war propaganda.
 

RockGun90

Member
Jul 28, 2018
438
This thread is probably not going to go the way you hope, OP, but appreciate it nonetheless. Just wanted to add that the "it's just a game" sentiment is also super insulting to the people who made it. They're telling the devs that their work has no value solely because of the type of media they worked on and are actively ignoring what that media is saying.
 
OP
OP
Richter1887

Richter1887

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
39,146
I've always found it odd that people can sign up to an enthusiast gaming forum and then dismiss games as "just games" the soon as anyone wants to actually discuss them
Especially a forum such as this where it is difficult to join due to the security.

I expect those types of responses in forums like Gamefaqs but on here? Why would you waste your time joining if you are not interested in discussing something deeply?
This thread is probably not going to go the way you hope, OP, but appreciate it nonetheless. Just wanted to add that the "it's just a game" sentiment is also super insulting to the people who made it. They're telling the devs that their work has no value solely because of the type of media they worked on and are actively ignoring what that media is saying.
Hopefully it doesn't but if it does then well, I can just quote the OP whenever somebody pulls that phrase.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,050
While I can see where you're coming from, I'd put less importance in my life on video games if I were you. No disrespect to the medium, but they shouldn't be such a significant lens which you view the world through.
 
OP
OP
Richter1887

Richter1887

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
39,146
While I can see where you're coming from, I'd put less importance in my life on video games if I were you. No disrespect to the medium, but they shouldn't be such a significant lens which you view the world through.
I explain why it is such a big deal to me. When you start seeing people become interested in going to war due to a video game and have fantasies about how they will kill people, things start going serious.
 

Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,788
I explain why it is such a big deal to me. When you start seeing people become interested in going to war due to a video game and have fantasies about how they will kill people, things start going serious.

The problem with this is you start down the path that video games cause people to do bad things when the reality is there are likely already reasons beyond video games that put them in that position to begin with.
 

Pendas

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,641
Because it is "just a game." Instead of asking people why they don't take games as seriously as you do, you should ask yourself why you take these games so seriously and go from there.
 

Sankara

Alt Account
Banned
May 19, 2019
1,311
Paris
Usually "it's just a game" is used to dismiss criticisms that fall outside of the dominant consensus. Yet those same people who cry "it's just a game" (whenever someone brings up something they don't like to hear), will trow a hissy fit over the presence of rainbow flags, black people, or non-sexualized women in games. At least that's what I've gathered throughout my time on Twitter and elsewhere.
 

Huey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,177
This thread is probably not going to go the way you hope, OP, but appreciate it nonetheless. Just wanted to add that the "it's just a game" sentiment is also super insulting to the people who made it. They're telling the devs that their work has no value solely because of the type of media they worked on and are actively ignoring what that media is saying.
Totally agree with you - the problem is publishers like Ubisoft actively propagate this line of thinking by taking their clearly politically relevant storylines and doing a bunch of PR saying "don't read to much into this, folks!"

Games are a relevant medium and what they intentionally or unintentionally reflect about us is worth reflecting on. End of story. If you don't like it, stay out of the threads
 
OP
OP
Richter1887

Richter1887

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
39,146
The problem with this is you start down the path that video games cause people to do bad things when the reality is there are likely already reasons beyond video games that put them in that position to begin with.
There is a difference between the two.

Here is the thing, when you design a game about a sensetive conflict and someone ignorant to the conflict start thinking it is that way, then that's the game and the developer's fault. Most people don't end up going around killing people but it does affect their thinking when they start getting a false idea about something.

Like I said in the OP, many people don't know how war is or the middle east is so when an ignorant person does start playing the game, and the developers is saying they want to be mature and realistic (even though it is not) these things start twisting their thinking. It is similiar to how beauty magazines used to have photoshoped models or impossible bodies so the readers start ruining themselves to look like the models in the magazine. There is a reason there has been a lot of pushback against these practices and the impossible beauty standards.
 

cyrribrae

Chicken Chaser
Member
Jan 21, 2019
12,723
I think you have made a very relevant point and I think you have conveyed your personal stake and the larger argument very well. You've convinced me. I think we've spent so many years focused on proving that video games don't make people violent that we've started to ignore the fact that they clearly can have deep and affecting emotional and psychological impact on people. And that can be a really good thing!

I think you're right that we are very easily influenced when we lack the knowledge to know better. I think it's on devs to do their research, but it's also on players and parents and the people contributing to these narratives online (us) to recognize when games are used to push a harmful view or (more commonly) haven't done the work to mitigate the harm that they unintentional contribute to.

Should we take every game deathly seriously? No of course not. Games are fun. But the same way we don't intentionally expose children to violence and sex in other media before they are able to (ideally) contextualize and understand it, so we should also not dismiss the impact that games and their messages - intended or not - can have.
 

Nanashrew

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
"It's just a game" is always, always deflection and dismissal of criticism. No ands, ifs, or buts. It is always used the same way every single time. Even plenty of publishers get in on it which encourage this thought process of don't think, just consume.
 
Oct 28, 2017
8,071
2001
I remember playing silent hill 2, 3 and 4 back to back a few years ago. I felt genuinely mentally traumatized by that for a few days. Not a great idea in hindsight.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,621
Because it is "just a game." Instead of asking people why they don't take games as seriously as you do, you should ask yourself why you take these games so seriously and go from there.
By that logic, a book is "just a book", a movie is "just a movie", and so on. Why treat movies or books so seriously
 

Glass Arrows

Member
Jan 10, 2019
1,414
People use this argument about any kind of art or fiction all the time, unfortunately.

Everyone has a different relationship with art, to some it's not as important which is fine, but it can't be denied that it has always had the power to deeply affect people and change lives. The same is true of videogames.
 
OP
OP
Richter1887

Richter1887

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
39,146
I think you have made a very relevant point and I think you have conveyed your personal stake and the larger argument very well. You've convinced me. I think we've spent so many years focused on proving that video games don't make people violent that we've started to ignore the fact that they clearly can have deep and affecting emotional and psychological impact on people. And that can be a really good thing!

I think you're right that we are very easily influenced when we lack the knowledge to know better. I think it's on devs to do their research, but it's also on players and parents and the people contributing to these narratives online (us) to recognize when games are used to push a harmful view or (more commonly) haven't done the work to mitigate the harm that they unintentional contribute to.

Should we take every game deathly seriously? No of course not. Games are fun. But the same way we don't intentionally expose children to violence and sex in other media before they are able to (ideally) contextualize and understand it, so we should also not dismiss the impact that games and their messages - intended or not - can have.
I do agree with you the player need to do their share of research too.

Back when I was young and I found out about GTA, my parents let me play it even though it is obviously a mature game. Now this might sound crazy because I was a kid back when I played it but my parents taught me that these games are fiction and the player character is a hardcore criminal. He is not a good guy nor should you learn from them. It is a video game and only that. When I learned this they let me play it and I understood that anything that happens in the game stays in the game, and doesn't leak into real life. Especially because the game doesn't have any positive message you can learn from so you shouldn't let it influence your actions.

Sadly most people just buy the game for their kids anyway without research and that's on them. If the developer did their job and the parents did the same thing then there wouldn't be a problem. But we both know that's an impossible task.
 

Dusk Golem

Local Horror Enthusiast
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,804
I wrote something in a thread recently I'm doing to dig up and post here as I feel it's tangibly related, and felt I expressed my thoughts on the topic well at that time. This was in response to the thread about RAGE 2's depiction of people with transfigurations. I was responding to the first post I quote here:


I respect the guy's opinion here. But there's something I'm not quite clear on. If most people here would agree that playing violent games and shooting people, stabbing them, setting them on fire, etc does not in anyway condition or bias a person towards violence. Then, I have to ask why would a physical characteristic of characters in a video game condition or bias a person against real life people of the same condition?
I can answer this. Firstly, this is not exclusive to video games, but extends to all other forms of media. In the real world, being violent or not has real world weight everyone feels and is learn/taught about because it is an element that we all deal with in this world. No matter who you are or who you spend time with, you'll encounter, learn, and form values on violence outside of video games.

If you grow up in a neighborhood surrounded by a specific type of person and not many examples of other types of people, your views on these people will stem from something else. For most it's media. Media propaganda exists because people are creatures who seek knowledge, and if not first-hand experience they can consume media to construct their views. In South Korea, they close out and super limit who's inside South Korea to form their opinions on people outside of Korea. They're taught that Americans, North Koreans and the like are the bad guys, and they're the superior race, and close out or super limit their exposure to anything that may contest these views.

In a more common non-South Korean example, media helps construct our image of things we lack exposure to. If you have spent a lot of time with a broad range of people who have disfigurations or disabilities, then the media involving this won't really influence your views because you have a lot of real world experience and exposure. But most don't have common interactions with a larger group of people with disfigurations or publicly perceived disabilities, and if you don't, how society and media treat a group of people will influence your behavoir towards that group of people and how your mind registers them.

So if media is almost always constructing bad tropes around these people, and they are very often depicted as the bad guys, then that does set a subconscious mental thing. It also establishes and instills an idea that people who have disfigurations are naturally less trustworthy because in media have physical deformities usually is a sign that your evil, or stupid, or crazy, though it's literally just a physical thing in most cases. This creates a stigma, and as this is something that's seen physically as it's only skin deep, it makes people treat you in the way they've been subconsciously taught by media.

The thing is, this trope is so common and prevalent that it 100% has real world affects. A casual example is someone might not let their child walk close to someone with a disfiguration compared to a "normal" person because media has instilled in them that this person could be a potential threat. They're not any more of a threat than anyone else, but the stigma is there due to media's portrayal of them.

On a further element how violence and this differ, violence is a physical act that you make a conscious decision on. It's something you have to enact and isn't something you keep in your head for the act of doing (you may think about doing something violently to someone, but if you don't act on it, then whatever). Meanwhile, having a stigma on a group of people is internalized, and the way you act on it is much easier to do since it's mostly being avoidant or having biases, which don't take as much precise action to act upon.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,621
Fiction isn't reality, but fiction absolutely influences reality. Fiction can reinforce ideas, introduce new ones, or make you question old ones. Media is never "just media", because nothing exists in a vacuum and what you consume leaves an impression. It's the very reason that propaganda exists, why the military has a say in certain movie scripts. why inclusion and diversity in media is so important. Games are no different
 

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
That is a long and well written OP (and I am too sleepy to read all of it atm). I wanted to thank you and felt that is a good place to share this:

 

Sub Boss

Banned
Nov 14, 2017
13,441
CoD is a bloody war game but people seem to like it :^S

GoD4 is a funny example when Kratos was one of the most sociopathic main characters in all of gamming (and thats saying a lot) i guess the CoD developers weren't so lucky
 
OP
OP
Richter1887

Richter1887

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
39,146
That is a long and well written OP (and I am too sleepy to read all of it atm). I wanted to thank you and felt that is a good place to share this:


Thanks for your praise. I have seen that video and it is really well done. I recommend everyone to sub to the channel as it is really good.
CoD is a bloody war game but people seem to like it :^S

GoD4 is a funny example when Kratos was one of the most sociopathic main characters in all of gamming (and thats saying a lot) i guess the CoD developers weren't so lucky
It is indeed a funny example. Had you told me GOW4 would end up being about a (terrible) man struggling to be a good father and has trouble to connect with his boy I would have thought you would be joking. Yet we got that and it was a really well done story.
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
Always deflection. And dismissive of both the issue, and games in general.

Especially in cases when developers go so far out of their way to make it more than just a game.
 

Sub Boss

Banned
Nov 14, 2017
13,441
Thanks for your praise. I have seen that video and it is really well done. I recommend everyone to sub to the channel as it is really good.

It is indeed a funny example. Had you told me GOW4 would end up being about a (terrible) man struggling to be a good father and has trouble to connect with his boy I would have thought you would be joking. Yet we got that and it was a really well done story.
Yep it was told good, they somehow made one of the biggest monsters in gamming main example of father of the year 👨‍👦
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,260
So isn't it good that cod now tries to be more by actually addressing the horrors of war? By putting you in the shoes of an Arab soldier? I feel like people are getting mad at it for trying while the alternative is another mindless shooter
 
OP
OP
Richter1887

Richter1887

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
39,146
So isn't it good that cod now tries to be more by actually addressing the horrors of war? By putting you in the shoes of an Arab soldier? I feel like people are getting mad at it for trying while the alternative is another mindless shooter
Address it how? By making you play war by and having fun doing it?
I would rather a mindless shooter based on a fictional war and setting than a game trying to cash in on an ongoing conflict that won't be understood by most players.

COD have tried addressing "horrors of war", as I explain in the OP. Yet, most people who played the game didn't understand a thing about what the developers were trying to do and focused only on the fun gameplay.
 

Deleted member 4037

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,989
I think there is a give and take relationship. There is undoubtedly some form of influence a game can have a person's thoughts, but to the sane person there is also a limit to how much that thought becomes action. There is a certain amount of escapism and fantasy that comes from it, but there are more nuanced factors in play. In the CoD example you give you discuss young people playing the game and I would suggest at this point that a more "realistic" shooter that is rated M shouldnt be played by younger people if they are prone to influence in that way. Even then I think most smarten up when the logistics of it become apparent. Then there is the danger of overreacting or over correction which I think can be the case with some of the material shared in the op. There needs to be reasonable discussion about what is dangerous to normalize and what is acceptable escapism.

Ultimately though people need to be able to think critically about what they consume, games are the same as any form of media
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,260
Address it how? By making you play war by and having fun doing it?
I would rather a mindless shooter based on a fictional war and setting than a game trying to cash in on an ongoing conflict that won't be understood by most players.

COD have tried addressing "horrors of war", as I explain in the OP. Yet, most people who played the game didn't understand a thing about what the developers were trying to do and focused only on the fun gameplay.
Well the game isn't released yet so we can hardly know all aspects, but for example letting you play as a civilian obviously evokes empathy with the victims of war. That's not the kind of subtle message that can be accidentally missed
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,198
I explain why it is such a big deal to me. When you start seeing people become interested in going to war due to a video game and have fantasies about how they will kill people, things start going serious.

This says more about the individual than it does video games. We're now going back to the mid 90s mentality where video games are demonized and turning children into killers. While I don't doubt some individuals are going to be more susceptible to influence, this isn't really a video game specific problem. Let's not pretend good parenting has become irrelevant either, or that there hasn't been a huge spike in medicated children over the last decade.
 

justiceiro

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
6,664
I think the real message on "just a game" is to leave people do what they can't/ won't do it in real life... Or shouldn't.

I play games cause I wanna fly, and look cool while it. So when comes someone saying: this is not realistic!!! I give them the look. Of course it's not, it's about me living my dream without having to learn all this stuff, so the "just a game" argument is perfectly fine in this case.

About your experience on "kids", do you think they started playing cod in the first place why? Weren't they interested in gruesome deaths already? Games is not even by the smallest amount the first medium to use deaths to entice a public. If the kid is put of by this, like I was, I played something else. A lot of them did, look at the Minecraft success. Also, cod is a m rated game, why should developer care about someone who shouldn't be playing the game in the first place?

And finally, your God 4 is a bizarre example because you seem completely capable of absorbing subtle messages and ignore everything else, but doubt everyone else can do exactly the same?
 

Jacobson

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,444
The real issue here is that people discuss this topic as if video games are the only ones that have these kinds of effects. It applies to movies, television, books (stephen king's rage, anyone?), and all other forms of media.

Also, I personally think that this has more to do with the individual rather than the media.
 

Armadilo

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,877
It's entertainment more like it, if it was a legit documentary than yeah but people enjoy these things to distract and play pretend if you can say so
 

Dead Guy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,596
Saskatchewan, Canada
I've never bought into the idea that video games make people become killers. It's incredibly reductive to me. I think the much more plausible explanation is that psychos who have those underlying urges are drawn to the medium because it's an isolationist hobby that lets them live out their fantasies.

Can video games effect people's worldview? Sure, just like literally any other form of media, but you're gonna have a real hard time convincing me that video games are the primary driver in changing a persons personality
 

BeaconofTruth

Member
Dec 30, 2017
3,417
Dismissive behavior of any sort of criticism is always going to be wack. People want to believe the idea that gaming is an art form, but without the scrutiny that comes with criticizing the art itself. I mean for fuck sake, have you ever read a thread where someone takes shot at video game story telling, a medium directly at odds with telling stories to begin with? Like a laundry list of apologies for the medium's obvious n inherent short comings.

To the topics presented eh, I treat it the way we have violent media. We all know it has some impact on the youth n people, but we recognize processing that is more on the audience, and less the fault of the art. Similarly people wanting to join the military because of Call of Duty, is kind of a weird thing to blame Call of Duty. It's either been too bat shit to ever be taken seriously, or pretty condemning of war, the political leaders that manufactured these wars, and yeah Merica's fuck yeah attitude to liberating lands n shit. People forget but CoD4 is literally the americans getting fucking nuked for coming in half assed without all the details.

People are recognizing that you can separate the enjoyment of the mechanics and accept the story for what it is. Largely because you have to with video games, because ludonarrative disonance is a thing, we just also happen to accept, who gives a shit, it's a dumb thing to be worked up about. There is this myth on this forum, that every action game of any kind must convey something, when really it can absolutely be spineless narrative wise and really just be a vehicle for a set of missions, mechanics, and rules n challenges. You know the core pillars of a game.

Which is the thing people play CoD for, especially considering its a multiplayer dominated video game. That's not to say you don't criticize poor story telling for problematic shit, it just means people are willing to take the good with the bad and choosing when said bad is actually a deal breaker. There isn't anything inherently wrong with wanting a satisfying action game.

That doesn't necessarily mean bombastic fun. You can make a satisfying action game that is brutal, nasty, and unforgiving. Dark Souls happens to be an example of that.

So the new MW should be criticized if it fails to convey its message. Art can be looked at many lenses. We have auteur theory for a reason, death of the author for a reason, queer theory for a reason, etc, etc. If the story n systems present themselves one way, and it's off putting to people who value immersion n narrative, it's going to be criticized for it. Is there a degree truth to some people going "but it's just dumb ass Call of Duty, why in the fuck are you pretending you are surprised"...........eh sure, yeah, kind of. That part I agree with.

If those same people are taking shit at paid for critics (or well with gaming, "critics"), criticizing that, well then they are also missing the point.

But while we're on the "just a game" line, can we also add "more than just a game" to one of the douchiest things people will say about video games. It is nauseating like somehow being "more than just a game" is some achievement because it told a story or something, like it's better when the medium tries really hard to be like the other mediums, instead of excelling at the stuff that defines it. I love shit like Silent Hill 2, n Planescape, n Mother 3, and I happily paid(well I guess not happily) money for something Like That Dragon, Cancer. But I don't think the likes of Rocket League, Rainbow Six Siege and Devil May Cry have less artistic merit, when they are some of the best examples of what makes an exceptional video game. They happen to be far better representatives of the medium's strengths, then any video game story could ever hope to be.

I don't know why everyone decided the hollywood/movie critique of propping up movies that make us sad n shit is the only emotion of merit, but it's a pretty shitty take and needs a burial quick n fast.
 

nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
Really depends on the context. I'm happy to use that term when someone is overly enraged about a server going down for an hour or two, or being unreasonably entitled, or something.

Not for the examples you cite, though.
 

Tetrinski

Banned
May 17, 2018
2,915
When we raised concerns about animal cruelty in Far Cry, Era's most consensual response was "it's just a game, those aren't real animals that you're torturing for fun". It's dumb, lazy and problematic, and prevents games from being taken seriously.
 

Deleted member 56773

User requested account closure
Banned
May 16, 2019
159
agreed 100% thanks for the post!

It's stuff like that that shows how important educating people correctly is. It's not an opinion that media and arts affect people. It's a scientific fact. There is neuroscience and sociology that shows how visual stimuli affect your thought patterns, psychology, and emotions. This is really basic stuff. It's also the basis of the entire marketing world. They know exactly what they're doing and anyone who says otherwise is being taken for a sucker.

that being said, I've never played military games exactly for that reason. I played PUBG for a bit and that was just cuz my friends were playing and it was easy to pick up but I never felt great about it. Everyone has their line to draw so I'm not gonna judge people for playing military games at all, I just can not stomach it. It's too real, too propaganda, to nationalistic, I just can't do it. It's part of a much larger push in American culture (with the American-stylized military games, which I believe are most of them) that is just ultra-nationalistic and gross. I think people forget sometimes that it's not that it's just the game, it's the connection with everything else that matters just as much if not more. A stand alone game about how great the US army is, is one thing. A game during an actual war, a war that is illegal, with enemies that look like the ones in the actual war, is really fucked up. I can't stand it.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,106
Similarly people wanting to join the military because of Call of Duty, is kind of a weird thing to blame Call of Duty. It's either been too bat shit to ever be taken seriously, or pretty condemning of war, the political leaders that manufactured these wars, and yeah Merica's fuck yeah attitude to liberating lands n shit. People forget but CoD4 is literally the americans getting fucking nuked for coming in half assed without all the details.

The military is involved with the production of Call Of Duty games and there have been many reports of the military using it to recruit people, as well as veterans commenting on its authenticity.

www.theguardian.com

Call of Duty: gaming's role in the military-entertainment complex

How a writer on the world’s biggest shoot-’em-up has come to advise Washington on the future of warfare. By Simon Parkin


 

BeaconofTruth

Member
Dec 30, 2017
3,417
The military is involved with the production of Call Of Duty games and there have been many reports of the military using it to recruit people, as well as veterans commenting on its authenticity.

www.theguardian.com

Call of Duty: gaming's role in the military-entertainment complex

How a writer on the world’s biggest shoot-’em-up has come to advise Washington on the future of warfare. By Simon Parkin


Fair, I'd still roll with the argument that I'd sooner blame the person buying in, then the work necessarily. Because again those early CoD games aren't exactly merica fuck yeah the game, and one should be able to separate a game from the part where in the real thing you run a huge risk of actually getting downed.

But sure, your aspect was foolishly ignored in my post. My B.
 

Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,788
There is a difference between the two.

Here is the thing, when you design a game about a sensetive conflict and someone ignorant to the conflict start thinking it is that way, then that's the game and the developer's fault. Most people don't end up going around killing people but it does affect their thinking when they start getting a false idea about something.

Like I said in the OP, many people don't know how war is or the middle east is so when an ignorant person does start playing the game, and the developers is saying they want to be mature and realistic (even though it is not) these things start twisting their thinking. It is similiar to how beauty magazines used to have photoshoped models or impossible bodies so the readers start ruining themselves to look like the models in the magazine. There is a reason there has been a lot of pushback against these practices and the impossible beauty standards.

That's on the person for not being educated about a topic and taking a form of entertainment like a video game as to where they're learning about life. This isn't limited to video games either but all forms of entertainment. Just like how we shouldn't take the Daily Show as our sole knowledge of how politics work. Saying "it's just a game" is really one just putting things in perspective of things.

When we raised concerns about animal cruelty in Far Cry, Era's most consensual response was "it's just a game, those aren't real animals that you're torturing for fun". It's dumb, lazy and problematic, and prevents games from being taken seriously.

Why is it we can shrug off murdering hundreds or even thousands of people as "it's just a game" then?
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,192
While I can see where you're coming from, I'd put less importance in my life on video games if I were you. No disrespect to the medium, but they shouldn't be such a significant lens which you view the world through.
That's not how it works. Humanity molds their perception of reality through the lens of fiction and entertainment since the dawn of time. If you see games as just a way to kill time, that's fine, but there's something else that colors your view of the world, you noticing it or not.
 
Jan 16, 2018
425
Hope's Peak Academy
The military is involved with the production of Call Of Duty games and there have been many reports of the military using it to recruit people, as well as veterans commenting on its authenticity.

www.theguardian.com

Call of Duty: gaming's role in the military-entertainment complex

How a writer on the world’s biggest shoot-’em-up has come to advise Washington on the future of warfare. By Simon Parkin


You should also add on that America's Army exists, which is actually sponsored by the United States Army itself.