They had a Flash on TV, and a different Flash in the movie?! Say what you will about the quality but I think that was the biggest mistake they made.
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It's insane how a Justice League movie came out and no one gives a crap.
- Thread starter DragonSJG
- Start date
Wait... what? Tons of good moves are ignored by audiences. There were fewer than 10 people in the theater when I saw The Art of Self Defense and Teen Spirit.
I would've hoped that the failures of Justice League, Solo, and Fantastic Beasts 2 shook Hollywood and showed them that NO franchise is flop-proof, and that making good consistently pays off in the long run, even if bad movies make money at first (see also: the Transformers series).
That fact that in popular culture, a movie with a goddamn talking raccoon is more recognizable and more well-received than MOTHERFUCKING BATMAN AND SUPERMAN almost gives me an aneurysm...
That fact that in popular culture, a movie with a goddamn talking raccoon is more recognizable and more well-received than MOTHERFUCKING BATMAN AND SUPERMAN almost gives me an aneurysm...
Sadly, that isn't even in the top 10 of biggest mistakes they made.
I saw Batman vs superman in theaters. While I have seen worse movies, I've never seen one that was so bad compared to my expectations, which were admittedly low based on what i had heard about it going in. After seeing that I had zero drive to see it's sequel. IF i had heard that it was good i might of seen Justice League in theaters, but the best response from the film was it's not bad.
It sucked ass. People aren't obligated to care about trash movies just because a company wants us to lol
Batman and Superman are huge names historically but kids do not read comic books these days and so there is not a lot of ways to actually get them invested in the characters. They're relying solely on nostalgia when it comes to these characters. The DC TV shows are universally laughable to most viewers outside their built-in older fanbases as well which certainly doesn't help.
They have a perception issue and have not built up support from a younger generation in the way Marvel has and there isn't an easy way to fix it either. It isn't easy to knock off an established number one. Hopefully for their sake James Gunn can kickstart things in a few years.
FWIW I saw BvS but I honestly can't even remember if we saw Justice League.. I think I did?
They have a perception issue and have not built up support from a younger generation in the way Marvel has and there isn't an easy way to fix it either. It isn't easy to knock off an established number one. Hopefully for their sake James Gunn can kickstart things in a few years.
FWIW I saw BvS but I honestly can't even remember if we saw Justice League.. I think I did?
I mean the ads reflected the movie fairly accurately. It was a pretty dark and serious Snyder flick, interjected with extremely out of place Joss Whedon shtick. The tone was all over the place, and it felt like two different movies mashed together.
Let's ignore the quality of the movies for a moment and look at the big picture. A lot of it had to do with the lack of buildup.
MCU had:
Incredible Hulk
Iron Man
Captain America
Thor
Iron Man 2
and THEN it made the teamup movie. We got to enjoy every character's story and actually cared about then.
DCEU had:
Man of Steel
Batman v Superman
Justice League
Batman had no solo flick.
Flash had no solo flick.
Aquaman had no solo flick.
Wonder Woman had no solo flick (yet).
They did shit for buildup.
MCU had:
Incredible Hulk
Iron Man
Captain America
Thor
Iron Man 2
and THEN it made the teamup movie. We got to enjoy every character's story and actually cared about then.
DCEU had:
Man of Steel
Batman v Superman
Justice League
Batman had no solo flick.
Flash had no solo flick.
Aquaman had no solo flick.
Wonder Woman had no solo flick (yet).
They did shit for buildup.
They completely wasted The Death of Superman storyline too
They didn't care.
Then he dies in the opening of a JL episode.
Out of the many strange choices in the Justice League film, making Steppenwolf the main villain was so baffling. It would be like making this guy from The Avengers the main villain.
The problem is not that the stuff was cut, was that Zack Snyder planned a trillion dollar franchise before knowing it could stand on it's feet.
And with his pessimistic idea of what a superhero is, it would never stand on Superman's feet
You need more than IPs, the Marvel movies in the 90's were mockable failures that nobody wanted to watch. People like to think success or failure is just about slapping an IP on something and no man, things need to be good or at least watchable, especially in the era where I may not see a movie if it doesnt chart at 80+ on RT
Out of the many strange choices in the Justice League film, making Steppenwolf the main villain was so baffling. It would be like making this guy from The Avengers the main villain.
1) We live in a world where i don't know if you are joking saying this IS the main villain from avengers
2) I still don't know who this guy is supposed to represent like in the comics
The fact that everyone major involved in the making of the DCEU up till Justice League has been fired/quit speaks volumes.
When I was cruising the channel guide yesterday and saw it was playing on HBO or Cinemax I had forgotten it happened which makes how hard they dropped that ball almost impressive.
I still maintain that DC could've jumped right into Justice League with no build-up just due to the number of characters that have been staples of pop culture for so long.
It likely would've required a fairly basic villain - there probably wouldn't be time to set up a villain as a character since you'd need to devote run time to establishing the characters of the heroes - but I think to start out with that wouldn't have been the worst thing as long as the introduced heroes were likable enough. Charismatic villains could come later.
It wouldn't have been easy, but they had a much more direct path to that than Marvel had, it just required...y'know...some actual effort. WB didn't seem interested in putting forth any to craft something larger like that. (For all his faults, Snyder actually DID put in effort, but it was mostly in service to the world in his head and not to the characters as they've always existed.)
If you can go from Batman and Robin to Batman Begins I'm hopeful they can recover from Justice league. Hard to do it with the same actors and so soon after the disaster though.
I really think DC could have done it either way. The first Avengers movie is what got me to pay more attention to the other solo movies more. I hadn't watched Iron Man 1 or 2 and I didn't really care for the first CA or Thor movie. It was seeing them all together and their chemistry as a group that made me more interested in the solo films. I never really liked the Guardians movies but Infinity War made me like them more in retrospect. I had no interest in Ant-Man but Civil War made me go back and watch his movie.
DC just made characters that were kind of icky and I don't want to know most of them better. Also, I prefer the CW Flash so the one in the movie was a turn-off. I also hated the scene where he lands on Wonder Woman's boobs and is utterly stupid and awkward about it. It seemed so out of place in the movie that it's one of the few scenes I actually remember.
Basically, I don't think they had to follow Marvel's path to success. They just needed to write better movies, hire better directors, and actually care about the material for itself and not rely on it being a superhero movie and assuming that's all we cared about in the first place.
To be fair, NOBODY knew about thor, iron man or captain america. Or they just knew the very basics.
EVERYONE knows about superman and batman and for better or worst, aquaman.
They could have made the build up they did if they ... had used the real characters, not alternate universe characters in a world where the money shot is superman crying he had to break someone's neck in the only scene of the second half of the movie where he cares about the people around him.
Flash was about one of the rare things that worked in JL...
It was the last stand of an awfully managed mess, it doesn't matter how well known the characters are since at that point the audience had their hands over their eyes and were just peeking between their fingers to the see final nail in the coffin, and they did.
The mustache gate was incredibly meta representative of that whole trainwreck.
The mustache gate was incredibly meta representative of that whole trainwreck.
Diniverse pulled this off pretty successfully with Justice League. They introduced Wonder Woman, John Stewart, Martian Manhunter, and Hawkgirl in the first two part episode. Granted that was a series, but still.
"Look at those losers at Marvel actually having to put an effort with those no names, we got Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman. People will be there no matter what"
And the rest is history.
And the rest is history.
Batman has had a ton of solo flicks and Wonder Woman is very well known. This has nothing to do with build up. Like the OP said, we're talking about a movie with Batman and Superman!
"We're doing a movie with Star-lord..."
(as a major comic Guardians fan, I'm still beside myself that characters like Rocket and Groot are now household names.)
It was a bad movie, thats all that needs to be said. The production company, writers and director failed the cast and fans.
I still disagree, because it's not just character buildup, but universe buildup. The MCU origin filmed established the universe. Not just the characters.
Even though there were multiple Batman films before it, none of them were in the same universe
Probably not, but I feel it would've been fairer to judge a complete product without studio interference. I.e. The BVS Ultimate Cut was still awful but it was less awful than the theatrical version.
I also felt when watching Justice League we hardly got to know Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg before it was off to the main plot.
People blame rightfully blame Snyder for the awful takes on the characters but WB approved it.
Did no one with knowledge of DC Comics read the scripts and say "WTF is this shit?"
I believe they had a longer lead up but after Avengers did over a billion WB ordered JL rushed so their execs could collect some bonuses.
Did no one with knowledge of DC Comics read the scripts and say "WTF is this shit?"
I believe they had a longer lead up but after Avengers did over a billion WB ordered JL rushed so their execs could collect some bonuses.