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Mr. Wonderful

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,295
So I'm replaying Yoshi's Island for the first time since the 90's, and I have been consistently amazed how well made this game is.

Maybe it's the fact that this is one of the only Yoshi games that was made by the main Mario team, but it's incredible to me how it's in a tier of its own compared to every game that has been released subsequently.

Each level is incredibly creative, packed with secrets, and often has more than one gimmick (I dislike the Mario Maker "rule" that people put out there that each Mario level only has one mechanic, when Nintendo's classic games didn't even follow that model).

I think where it's even more successful, however, is in the balance of its collect-a-thon mechanics, which I'm not sure any game has been able to match since. Post-blue ocean Nintendo's Mario games have felt more like wonderfully creative interactive experiences. There's often little challenge until the post-game, or through collecting "Star Coins", etc. - a mechanic that personally feels lazy compared to the perfectly balanced challenge of the NES and SNES games.

Yoshi's Island, on the other hand, is challenging in its own rights, with the creative, clever collectables pushing the difficulty over the edge for something only experienced platformers or those dedicated to exploration are able to achieve.

It's truly a wonderful game, and something that modern game developers can still learn from.
 

Nabbit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,422
IMO Woolly and Crafted World are just as good. I love the original too though. And I think the DS game is under-appreciated. And I think New Island is pretty solid.

Long post I wrote a whole back praising the DS game:

LTTP Yoshi's Island DS: A masterclass in level design
October 2014

Several years ago, I played part of this game and found it frustrating and confusing to play through. It was a period of time where I wasn't as into video games (hard to believe if you see my posts these days!). It's that odd period I think a lot of us went through in our late teens or early twenties where you were really into gaming previously but other things have garnered your interest for the time being, and you'd end up coming back to gaming with a renewed interest. I think I'm not alone in that experience.

Anyway, I think I gave up on that playthrough partway through World 3. I remember being really befuddled and perturbed with some levels that took place on various small islands and I kept getting lost; the game just was not working for me. I kind of trudged through that one and played part of the next level, and then just gave up on the game for several years.

I'd never played the original Yoshi's Island until early this year. It's agreed-upon as an incredible masterpiece of a game, from its music to its level design and general charm. I also played Yoshi's New Island when it came out at the end of March, and while it did feel often like a remake of the original game, I still enjoyed it quite a bit and thought it had a lot to offer.

Yoshi's Island DS, on the other hand, I was really impressed with. If you find the sound of Baby Mario crying in the original Yoshi's Island to be grating and stressful, this is not a game I would recommend because it offers five additional variations on infant cries for your terror. With that said, if you can get past that--and I have to say I find the crying stressful but not grating, personally--you've got an amazing array of playable characters, each with their own drastically different approaches to playing the levels.

Playing as each of these characters offers up a delightful variation on the standard YI gameplay. In the original game, playing as Baby Mario meant you could run (which was standard, and understandably taken for granted), and use an invincibility star. In this game, Baby Mario is the only playable character who can run, forcing you to get creative when using other characters. Baby Peach can use her trademark pink umbrella in conjunction with the wind to reach new heights. Baby DK can climb on vines and do a charge attack. Awesomely, Baby Wario has a magnet to attract gold (which makes for some neat levels with magnetized platforms) and Baby Bowser's fire attack supersedes Yoshi's normal egg attack, forcing you to think about how to play differently. Effectively, the game is a Yoshi, Peach, Wario, Bowser, and DK game all in one, and you can choose from at least three of these characters in most levels, affording many different ways to tackle a level.

All of this would be for naught if the game didn't have terrific and well-conceived level design to support it. The game has fewer transformations than the others in the series (think mole tank, copter, et al.) but has some very clever level types to make up for it, including transportation modes such as stilts, to become a veritable Stilt Guy and infiltrate a Shy Guy fortress where they hang their Shy Guy suits on clotheslines in the background. You can also take to the skies in an inflatable Kangaroo.

Blast off into space in some brief top-down shooter-style segments.

And in my all-time favorite Yoshi's Island game device, hit the slopes.

All of these vehicles help to change up the gameplay and keep things interesting. The locales themselves are unusual, too. You've got the above-mentioned Shy Guy fortress, a desert area riddled with caverns, a Battleship, and more. It's just a neat game world and feels sufficiently different than the other games in the series. The game wisely throws new ideas at you at a fairly rapid pace, so you never feel like anything's overstaying its welcome, nor do you feel introduced to too many playable characters at once. It's a great balance.

One of the main complaints I've heard about the game is the soundtrack. I thought it was charming and worked well. Then again, I purposefully listen to the Yoshi's New Island OST in my free time, so I understand I have some minority opinions on this subject. I've also heard the empty space between the top and bottom screens was an issue for some people. It didn't bother me at all, and I was actually concerned about it going in. I found you get used to it pretty quickly and are almost always playing on the bottom screen only, for the most part at least. As for the concern that levels are overly designed around switching Babies and using one specific Baby, I'd say I didn't generally find that to be the case. When the game wants you to use a specific Baby for a level or part of a level, it usually telegraphs this pretty well or at least lets you backtrack. As for the conceit that you have to use different Babies in certain levels, well, it's just part of the concept of the game, and for me, it was a lot of fun and prepared me...decently...for the extremely tough individual Baby-centric rooms in the final level. (I only say decently because they did try to prepare me, but these were, for me, extraordinarily hard portions of that level.)

(FWIW, these are extremely hard games to 100% and I plan to take on this task eventually but haven't yet made the time to do so. I haven't played any bonus levels in any of these games yet, either. With that said, I can still appreciate how masterfully designed the levels are in these games to be able to support a playstyle of going through a level to beat it or going through a level to 100% it.)

Anyway, I heartily recommend the game. I think it's a superb entry in the series. Everything Yoshi's Island does, this game does just as well in its own way, and better in some ways.
 
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Dark Cloud

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
61,087
It's one of the greatest games Nintendo ever made. That's already hard to match from an outside studio. Yoshi's Woolly World is very good though.
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
Woolly World is pretty darn good and actually has some surprising meat to it, but you're never going to get another platformer that matches the lightning in a bottle perfection of Yoshi's Island.
 

stinkyguy666

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,147
Made by the main Mario Team

sorry I know this is off-topic but this is what I imagine in my mind when I see the phrase "Mario team":
270px-SuperMario128.png
 

Nano-Nandy

Member
Mar 26, 2019
2,302
Woolly World was quite close. Really great game and my favorite Yoshi game after Yoshi's Island.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Not Yoshi and completely different gimmick, but I'd put Kirby Canvas Curse up there with YI. Both are games that did very, very different things compared to the series they spun off from, and both did their unique gimmicks so well that they became among the greatest games ever. And, like Yoshi's Island, the follow up to Canvas Curse was a huge disappointment to me.
 
Nov 23, 2017
4,302
While your topic title is pretty much correct, Yoshi's Island isn't quite as good as some people say nor are things like Yoshi's Story or YI DS as bad as some people say. I'd say Yoshi's Story is almost as good as Yoshi's Island, and though I never played it some people say Woolly World is really good too.
 

themadswagger

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
167
Woolly and Crafted were extremely boring, though I think Yoshi's Island DS is a worthy successor, even if it doesn't top the original.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,164
probably because it was nintendo's last real labor of love. i think they realized they were jumping into the dark with 3D and went balls out. i remember an interview quote from miyamoto (or was it tezuka?) where there was executive wringing of the hands over the game not being pre rendered CG and it was met with a resounding hell no, we're doing this shit, deal with it
 
Nov 23, 2017
4,302
probably because it was nintendo's last real labor of love. i think they realized they were jumping into the dark with 3D and just went balls out. i remember an interview quote from miyamoto (or was it tezuka?) where there was executive wringing of the hands over the game not being pre rendered CG and it was met with a resounding hell no, we're doing this shit
Hopefully you meant, "for 2d" gaming or for the SNES, cause I don't feel the implication here tbh
 

unholyFarmer

Member
Jan 22, 2019
1,374
I'm with you on this OP. None of them reached the heigths of the original Yoshi's Island.

Wolly and Crafted World were the best games since the original (although the latter suffers from a miserable soundtrack), but still Yoshi's Island is by far the most exciting and innovative (for its time) adveture.
 

Dark Cloud

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
61,087
probably because it was nintendo's last real labor of love. i think they realized they were jumping into the dark with 3D and went balls out. i remember an interview quote from miyamoto (or was it tezuka?) where there was executive wringing of the hands over the game not being pre rendered CG and it was met with a resounding hell no, we're doing this shit, deal with it
Nintendo's last labor of love for SNES?
 

Technika

Alt Account
Banned
Aug 23, 2018
256
It did set a high benchmark, and I absolutely agree!

Some of the factors that have negatively impacted all successors in my opinion are:

- overly cute and childish art
- mediocre to appalling music
- Yoshi's sounds, i prefer the originals muted yoshi sounds/effects
- the 2.5d level design, reversed level gimmick
 

dock

Game Designer
Verified
Nov 5, 2017
1,370
Wooly World is my favourite Yoshi game by a huge margin. I completed it in co-op with my partner

Yoshi's Island's Level Designs always felt like a mess, with annoying loops and too many repetitions. The baby crying is super annoying, and when possible I play a romhack which removes the noise.

The sections where Yoshi transforms are just awful. They're bad in every Yoshi game, but they're bizarre here in the worst way.

Yoshi's Island is an incredible game but I often question the pedestal that SNES games are put on.
 

RpgN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,552
The Netherlands
I've completed YI as an ambassador game on the 3DS which is the GBA port. I wasn't fond of the game. The graphics look great but I was frustrated with the levels being too long and the way collectibles were handled.

Currently I'm playing Poochy Yoshi's Woolly World and made it to world 5. I'm enjoying this immensely and think it's better than YI. The 3D effect is also great.

Looking back, I didn't understand the flow/structure of YI. Woolly World might have done a better job of teaching that. I might return to YI again in the future.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
It did set a high benchmark, and I absolutely agree!

Some of the factors that have negatively impacted all successors in my opinion are:

- overly cute and childish art
- mediocre to appalling music
- Yoshi's sounds, i prefer the originals muted yoshi sounds/effects
- the 2.5d level design, reversed level gimmick

These aren't actually my problems with most post-YI yoshi games. For me, it's much simpler: I like my platformers to be A to B to C affairs. The goal of the level, should be to get to the end. This is the problem I have with many Amiga/Atari/Euro platformers of the 90's, I don't like when getting to the end of the level is secondary to some other goal. Like, a game like Zool, where before you reach the goal, you have to get X number of items. Now, some games like this are better than others, like Cool Spot or Zool 2, where they give you way more items than you need in a natural way before you get to the end of the level to mitigate the problem. But for me, in Yoshi's Story, they actually made it front and center. The level outright ends when I get enough fruit, that's just not fun to me.

Same deal with Topsy Turvy and like, they just weren't what I was looking for in a yoshi game. Many dislike it for being too derivative, but Yoshi's Island DS is by far my favorite of the follow ups, just because it goes back to the winning formula IMO.
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,438
Yoshi's Island is the best, it felt like an adorable bed time story, but the new world games are enjoyable 7/10s.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,164
Hopefully you meant, "for 2d" gaming or for the SNES, cause I don't feel the implication here tbh

i think it was the last "big" game they made with not much care about commercial reception, if that makes sense. take yourself back to 1995, something like DKC and Killer Instict was about the standard

today they could drop a cartoony yoshi title during the holidays without second thought but back then it was a big deal. imo it was something they really believed in and just didn't care otherwise
 

HK-47

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,595
i think it was the last "big" game they made with not much care about commercial reception, if that makes sense. take yourself back to 1995, something like DKC and Killer Instict was about the standard

today they could drop a cartoony yoshi title during the holidays without second thought but back then it was a big deal. imo it was something they really believed in and just didn't care otherwise
What about Wind Waker?
 

Het_Nkik

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,405
I wasn't big on the original. Too collectathony and strict with its collectathon requirements.

Woolly World is better.
 

Deleted member 17210

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,569
Yoshi's Island is the only game in its series to really get the star treatment from Nintendo. It wasn't just some outsourced B-side. It was a proper Mario sequel (or technically a prequel). I know Yoshi's Story was done in-house; it seemed like when they missed the mark with it, they stopped caring about the franchise being in the top tier.
 

VariantX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,889
Columbia, SC
Game had amazing art direction with smart implementations of the super fx chip that made for really nice set pieces that most games of that era never could match. It was one of those games in that era that tried to make the world look more organic and less like the world and its characters were made up of a collection pixels that had to fit in a certain space. None of the games following even came close to it until nintendo finally made wooly world all those many years later.
 

Calamari41

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,098
Woolly World is at least as good. I personally prefer it, and I consider Yoshi's Island to be a top platformer of all time.
 

Josh5890

I'm Your Favorite Poster's Favorite Poster
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
23,227
I have yet to play Crafted World, but I put Wolley World on the same level as Yoshi's Island.
 

Man God

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,306
Yoshi's Island was quite nearly a perfect game but I'd argue the last two came damn close to matching it.
 

ZSJ

Alt-Account
Banned
Jul 21, 2019
607
I feel like the game is overrated due to the admittedly amazing art style.

Not disputing your claim, but its almost entirely because the Yoshi games after it have been terrible to mediocre at best. The one on Switch might be the most boring game I've played in years.
 

Aadiboy

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,651
It's the same with 2d Mario games after SMW and 2d Zelda games after LTTP. Those games were the flagship entries of their series, but since the move to 3D they're seen more as side efforts.
 

Sub Boss

Banned
Nov 14, 2017
13,441
I think they could, but it would need less rehash in bosses lots of content and higher difficulties i want the next evolution of YI not YI 1.5.

That said Whooly and Crafted are pretty cool
 

FreddeGredde

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,904
I feel like the game is overrated due to the admittedly amazing art style.
Nah, it's highly rated because it bombards you with new creative enemies and challenges throughout every single level, and the challenge is there to test the snappy controls. The only problem in my opinion is that many levels just feel too long, especially early on.

The portable sequels are also fun, but extremely derivative, offering barely anything new, and the wooly/crafted ones are way too slow and mind-numbingly easy.

For my tastes anyway.
 

Camjo-Z

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,511
I don't expect many people to agree with me but I liked Yoshi's New Island about as much as the original, it had some unnecessary gimmicks here and there but overall still a pretty fun game. The soundtrack is also actually pretty good aside from the 2 or 3 infamous songs everyone always brings up to suggest the entire thing sucks.
 

ghibli99

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,797
I actually like Woolly World better. Yoshi's Island just aggravated me going for the 100%, whereas WW was *just* challenging enough to be thoroughly rewarding. It was one of the nicest surprises of that year!
 

Cup O' Tea?

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,603
The crayon aesthetic from the original game looks a hundred times better than whatever Crafted World was trying to do.
 

night814

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,040
Pennsylvania
It's the DS and 3DS games that are basically insults. Wooly World is good although a little slow for my tastes which is also why I haven't got Crafted World because I feel it's not different enough.
 
Apr 21, 2018
6,969
Yoshi Island >>> wooly world > YI:DS >> Crafted World >>>> Story >>>>>>>>> Yoshis New Island

Sure they never topped the original, it's an absolute all time classic. But the series is solid as a whole. It seems like it's a series now aimed at beginners, and Good-Feel, while good, aren't exactly the creme of the crop of game design.
 

brambles13

Member
Oct 27, 2017
546
I actually think Woolly World (I played on 3ds where the game is a graphical miracle) is the best Yoshi game.

Yoshi's Island is still great though, the levels just get a bit too long and boring in the latter 3rd of the game imo. I'd also say Yoshi Island DS and Touch and Go are both fun games for very different reasons. I haven't gotten the Switch game yet.