User banned (permanent): troll account
A lot of garbage takes from dumbass 12 year olds I see. Go back to GameFAQs please.
This is why NeoGAF is a better forum.
Revisionist nonsense.
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It's a tragedy, entire generations who've never played or owned a SEGA console.
- Thread starter Lightning Count
- Start date
A lot of garbage takes from dumbass 12 year olds I see. Go back to GameFAQs please.
This is why NeoGAF is a better forum.
Revisionist nonsense.
I'll take ride-or-die SNERDs over alt-right shitheads ;)
But it is incredibly disheartening to see retro game discussion on this forum. The SNES being accepted historically as the universal best for its respective generation baffles me as I think it could be easily argued that the only genre it excelled over its contemporaries over is probably RPGs.
You can't exactly blame people. The only console they made with huge mainstream success worldwide was the mega drive, which is a console that released in 1989. And ever since i was born, the only thing sega marketed for a big audience is sonic. Sonic cartoons, sonic games, mcdonalds toys, etc. All the other franchises sega let enter obscurity for decades at this point.
I love phantasy star IV, but i'm very sure i'm one of the few in their early 20's that played that, and i only did so because of emulators.
I love phantasy star IV, but i'm very sure i'm one of the few in their early 20's that played that, and i only did so because of emulators.
It's disheartening that people just prefer the games on one over the other? Geez, why is this thread so serious?
it's disheartening to see people have zero curiosity for other platforms.
You can't blame people that sega made mistakes and stopped making consoles two decades ago. The huge majority of people now aren't going to go back and play the genesis or saturn.
can you imagine if we applied this sort of logic to the discussion/criticism of other media?
It can't really be compared to movies or tv because with games, they are tied to consoles and companies. So yea, it's not a direct comparison.
i don't care if people don't play Genesis games on real hardware. I play them on a Mega SG, for example. There's the Genesis Mini, many fine compilations and digital downloads. There are other means to play their games. It is the outright dismissive nature of the people in the proverbial wall-of-shame that bothers me.
your comment was pretty mild. if i was exposed to modern sonic fans, i'd think they're weird.
I was a Sega kid. Loved the Mega Drive. The Saturn is still my favourite console -- it was insanely underrated then and with limitations on porting it's even more obscure now. But it was the games rather than the consoles where Sega excelled. Unlike Nintendo or even Playstation, I never remember their console innovations being much to write home about and even quite interesting ideas like lock-on cartridges and VGU were met with anywhere from indifference to derision. Even at the time, the 32X seemed mad.
It's not so much that they lost their console division but that all their game development talent seemed to drain away and they let some amazing series drift into obscurity.
Sonic Team seemed to crash and burn hard. S3&K and NiGHTS are two of the greatest games ever made but then as I recall the team split into about four groups. They just about held it together for a bit with flawed-but-fun games like Burning Rangers, Chu Chu Rocket and the original Sonic Adventure but things went downhill fast. I thought SA2 was a shambles and that's remembered as one of the better games; the shambolic new NiGHTS was the most hurtful given how magical and perfect the first one was. Mania is the only Sonic this century of any note and it's made by fans and 70% remixes of old stages.
Then there's the loss of Camelot. The Camelot Shining Force games are peerless but SFIII never even made it fully to the west. Time was, Camelot would come up with a new twist on the RPG every year - Zelda-like, dungeon crawler, tactics... not everything hit for everybody but they were truly ambitious and their output was diverse in a way it hasn't been since. Team Andromeda, Climax, let alone all the arcade divisions... it just seems like all the spark left Sega. Even regular collaborators like Treasure... gems like Dynamite Headdy and Guardian Heroes are almost completely unknown nowadays.
Sonic Mania, Shenmue 3, SoR, Wonder Boy and the Panzer Dragoon remakes are all a valiant start in the right direction but it seems like they've passed the point of even obscurity. Everything is small scale and retro not fresh and big and bold. I can't blame anyone born since about the early 90s for having no affinity for Sega.
My big wish is that Saturn emulation is cracked to the point that we can have a Saturn classics package on Switch; if not, polished-up remakes as many of these games are still terrific except for the lack of transparencies. NiGHTS, Guardian Heroes, Shining Force III, Shining the Holy Ark, Shining Wisdom, Daytona, Sega Rally, VF2, Fighters Megamix, Dark Savior, Burning Rangers, the Panzer Dragoon trilogy, Virtua Cop, Radiant Silvergun, Baku Baku, Dragon Force, Virtual On, Sim City, Myst...
It's not so much that they lost their console division but that all their game development talent seemed to drain away and they let some amazing series drift into obscurity.
Sonic Team seemed to crash and burn hard. S3&K and NiGHTS are two of the greatest games ever made but then as I recall the team split into about four groups. They just about held it together for a bit with flawed-but-fun games like Burning Rangers, Chu Chu Rocket and the original Sonic Adventure but things went downhill fast. I thought SA2 was a shambles and that's remembered as one of the better games; the shambolic new NiGHTS was the most hurtful given how magical and perfect the first one was. Mania is the only Sonic this century of any note and it's made by fans and 70% remixes of old stages.
Then there's the loss of Camelot. The Camelot Shining Force games are peerless but SFIII never even made it fully to the west. Time was, Camelot would come up with a new twist on the RPG every year - Zelda-like, dungeon crawler, tactics... not everything hit for everybody but they were truly ambitious and their output was diverse in a way it hasn't been since. Team Andromeda, Climax, let alone all the arcade divisions... it just seems like all the spark left Sega. Even regular collaborators like Treasure... gems like Dynamite Headdy and Guardian Heroes are almost completely unknown nowadays.
Sonic Mania, Shenmue 3, SoR, Wonder Boy and the Panzer Dragoon remakes are all a valiant start in the right direction but it seems like they've passed the point of even obscurity. Everything is small scale and retro not fresh and big and bold. I can't blame anyone born since about the early 90s for having no affinity for Sega.
My big wish is that Saturn emulation is cracked to the point that we can have a Saturn classics package on Switch; if not, polished-up remakes as many of these games are still terrific except for the lack of transparencies. NiGHTS, Guardian Heroes, Shining Force III, Shining the Holy Ark, Shining Wisdom, Daytona, Sega Rally, VF2, Fighters Megamix, Dark Savior, Burning Rangers, the Panzer Dragoon trilogy, Virtua Cop, Radiant Silvergun, Baku Baku, Dragon Force, Virtual On, Sim City, Myst...
OP
OP
As someone born in 83 and from the UK, Sega was massive over here and most people I knew, including myself, had Master Systems and then Mega Drives (both great systems).
However alot of my friends also had Nintendo consoles so we were always exposed to those games. This thread is quite eye opening to how many people of the same era only played Nintendo consoles with no exposure to Sega. You missed out on alot of good stuff.
However alot of my friends also had Nintendo consoles so we were always exposed to those games. This thread is quite eye opening to how many people of the same era only played Nintendo consoles with no exposure to Sega. You missed out on alot of good stuff.
Yeah, imagine having never played NES, SNES, N64, and GC. That would be missing out on a lot of gaming history. Missing out on Sega consoles is like that.
some people dont like older games
id rather play any one single gamecube title for years than a whole library of genesis/snes games
Man, I grew up basically as a Sega kid. While we did have an NES instead of a Master System, we eventually ended up with a Genesis, Saturn, and Dreamcast while friends had SNES', Playstations and PS2s
If Sega consoles and games are good enough, they will make their own space on future gaming / future history. Like movies, they can become classics and reference for future designers.
Sadly, Sega it's no good enough even in 2020, I don't see a bright future for them.
Sadly, Sega it's no good enough even in 2020, I don't see a bright future for them.
that's a bad take if I have ever seen one. Sega's influence can be felt everywhere.
Same here. I've tried time and time again but I just can't. Even the "greats" like Super Mario World and A Link to the Past, I just can't get into games from that era at all. I wish people here would stop romanticizing it and look at it from the point of view that we did not grow up with these games. I'm sure most of the people posting here about how great the SNES and Genesis are wouldn't want to go back and play Atari games. There's a difference between respecting the history and forcing your nostalgia on people who didn't experience it
On the other hand newer generations grow up with smartphones and advanced computers easily accessible to them.
Look I love SEGA. PSO is my fav game of all time. The Dreamcast is one of my fav consoles ever.
As great as they were, I'd much rather raise a kid with the games and technology available to them now rather than then.
Look I love SEGA. PSO is my fav game of all time. The Dreamcast is one of my fav consoles ever.
As great as they were, I'd much rather raise a kid with the games and technology available to them now rather than then.
It's strange, but VF 3 never really blew me away. I think it's because arcades were pretty rare where I lived and by the time I saw a VF 3 machine, I was already playing Soulcalibur and DoA 3 on our Dreamcast.
Daytona though is wizardry. I'm playing it now on an Xbox One via BC and it's still crazy how this was a game from 93
Just because you don't like an old game that doesn't mean fans of it are romanticizing or forcing nostalgia. Plenty of people enjoy stuff they didn't grow up with.
Said the guy claiming nostalgia is being forced on to you, while making broad assumptions about others yourself.
If you looked at my past post you'd see I'm a Sega loon, and I never touched Nintendo games till I was like 18.
I didn't grow up with any SNES or Nintendo games but I liked them for their own merits after I played them for myself. Its all about the state of mind you have when you approach these games.
And yes I have played the shit out of some old Atari games too, and I'm about 25. You don't have to have nostalgia to like these games for what they accomplished on their own merits.
Hmmm... No.
One thing it's your feelings.
Another different thing it's sales, influence in the market, brand positioning, brand perception and consistence. Nowadays Sega it's not even on the top 10 of gaming brands, and I think that's not gonna get better in the future.
Yeah that is today. But back then when Sega made consoles they had influenced the market, you can't deny that. Plenty of designers took what Sega did and made it more popular. Nowadays they won't get the credit that they deserve, but it's an underdog brand like that.
In fact, you're saying Capcom is dead, right ? :)
You had several new entries of House of the dead for the wii, PS3, PC, remakes are coming on switch and a new arcade game was released in 2018...
If you considere Sega dead because you don't have a specific IP on your specific console, that's a pity.
House of the dead Scarlet will arrive on console eventually but let Sega make profit in Arcade first and then release it on console like HOD4... (Arcade has no value if each game is available immediately on console)
Speaking of Sequels of sequels, i'm not sure this what will make of Sega a great publisher. For instance, many fans ask for a new Sega Rally to make Sega great again :/ Meanwhile Sega AM1 just finished Sega World Drivers by Kenji Sasaki (director of sega rally 95 and Sega Touring Car). So what ? This game doesn't exist because it's not called Sega Touring Car 2 ?
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It's a bigger tragedy that Sega's legacy is judged by many only by their consoles instead of their arcade games.
Of course Sega released popular consoles (well one popular console) and great games for them but it was in the arcades where Sega was the true king.
Of course Sega released popular consoles (well one popular console) and great games for them but it was in the arcades where Sega was the true king.
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I never owned a SEGA console and I don't particularly mourn this fact, like not even remotely. The Amiga(s) were the only thing I care about from that time. Great games + creative software in one all-time great package.
I played lots of great SEGA games at the arcades though.
I played lots of great SEGA games at the arcades though.
The people praising the Saturn here have no context for how shitty it was being an owner of it when you were a kid. They're judging the Saturn in hindsight when all the games are available. I actually owned a Saturn at launch, it was a shitty console to own at the time.
1) Because it took everyone by surprise, it did not have a lot of launch games. Most stores were still dominated by SNES and Genesis games.
2) The games that were released were not great.
3) You had to go very long in between good games. Multiplatform games were almost always better on the PSX
4) A lot of people who tout the Saturn's library forget that most of us in 1995-1998ish did not have access to the import market or stuff like that. It was expensive and video games were still for kids so it wasn't something a lot of us could afford.
I still contend to this very day that the Saturn was a shitty console. That view has changed in hindsight because now you have access to 100% of its library.
1) Because it took everyone by surprise, it did not have a lot of launch games. Most stores were still dominated by SNES and Genesis games.
2) The games that were released were not great.
3) You had to go very long in between good games. Multiplatform games were almost always better on the PSX
4) A lot of people who tout the Saturn's library forget that most of us in 1995-1998ish did not have access to the import market or stuff like that. It was expensive and video games were still for kids so it wasn't something a lot of us could afford.
I still contend to this very day that the Saturn was a shitty console. That view has changed in hindsight because now you have access to 100% of its library.
The Mega Drive is still probably my favourite console of all time. I'm sure there's a lot of nostalgia at work there but it's definitely where my fondest gaming memories come from.
I'm in the middle of rebuilding the Mega Drive collection I stupidly sold off as a teenager. Some of those games I had are worth over £100 now :(
I'm in the middle of rebuilding the Mega Drive collection I stupidly sold off as a teenager. Some of those games I had are worth over £100 now :(
I got the Saturn on the early launch. Your experience is not universal.
Making the most of the Saturn was definitely getting imports, which I did even back then. Sega of America dropped the ball wrt what the chose to localize.
I'd wager a lot of the criticisms you level against the Saturn are easily applicable to the Nintendo 64— which managed to get far less games globally, received inferior or no versions of third-party titles, is basically only recognized for a handful of first-party published marquee titles.
I feel like I'm playing more Sega games now than when then had their own consoles. Can't say I feel like I'm missing out now they don't produce hardware.
I really wasn't a Sega fan growing up, I was a bit of Nintendo fanboy.
My first Sega console was actually the Saturn. I fell in love with Sega's games then went back and started collecting for the Master System, Mega Drive, Mega CD and 32X. I even picked up a SC-3000. Of course I pre-ordered the Dreamcast and lined up for a midnight launch.
Sega isn't the same since the Dreamcast, but what I wish Sega would do was have one "main" platform where every game they make is released on it, and release some ports to others.
As it stands I could only play Yakuza on PS platforms (up until recently at least) and stuff like Sega Ages Virtua Racing is stuck on Switch.
My first Sega console was actually the Saturn. I fell in love with Sega's games then went back and started collecting for the Master System, Mega Drive, Mega CD and 32X. I even picked up a SC-3000. Of course I pre-ordered the Dreamcast and lined up for a midnight launch.
Sega isn't the same since the Dreamcast, but what I wish Sega would do was have one "main" platform where every game they make is released on it, and release some ports to others.
As it stands I could only play Yakuza on PS platforms (up until recently at least) and stuff like Sega Ages Virtua Racing is stuck on Switch.
Yeah, their experience is not universal. He or she may have been disappointed with the Saturn but there's no need to word their post like everyone else that had one at the time was, too. I loved mine back then as a young adult, and my cousins loved theirs as kids.
Launch not having a lot of games was very typical if you had lived through multiple console launches before. It was the timing and pissing off retailers that was the problem for Sega. Compared to what had come out on 3DO and Jaguar, I was really impressed with games like Panzer Dragoon, Virtua Fighter, and Daytona even though they weren't as polished as the games that came out later in the year.
It is a console that needed to be followed closely to make the most of it. A lot of games had limited print runs in the West. If you didn't nab games like Powerslave, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Burning Rangers, etc. right away, then good luck finding them. Someone too young to follow gaming media could easily miss out on stuff and assume the system's library is weaker than it was.
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I agree with you that the Dreamcast isn't that essential these days since most of the stuff has been ported. Their older systems have more high quality stuff that's stuck there though. The Saturn, in particular, is a goldmine for high quality games that can't be found elsewhere.
I didn't own it at launch but I bought a Saturn while it was still active and I disagree. It wasn't as good as a PS1 at the time, but it was a great second system. Nights, Shining the Holy Ark, Dragon Force, the Panzer Dragoon trilogy - there were lots of great titles to enjoy that were only on Saturn. I admit I did get into imports at this time, but getting into imports was much easier with the Saturn than previous systems - you just needed a cartridge that you could buy for cheap & the prices for import games weren't that expensive at the time (and there was a period after the game was dead where import titles were crazy cheap - like around $10/game). Bought Grandia, Sakura Wars, Soul Hackers, Policenauts, MKR, and more.
Master Systems were pretty much more popular than the NES over here. I think the spread was about 50/50 among my friends. The master system was generally cheaper. And in my opinion, could produce much better graphics than the NES did. The difference between the 2 is kind of staggering even.
The Megadrive had quite a headstart, and immediately resonated with gamers due to Moonwalker etc. The SNES was simply very late. Spring 1992. Thats 3 years and some months before the PS1 started to make waves.
The Megadrive had quite a headstart, and immediately resonated with gamers due to Moonwalker etc. The SNES was simply very late. Spring 1992. Thats 3 years and some months before the PS1 started to make waves.
This is a little hyperbolic, to be fair, but
... the truth is sometimes harsh.
First post I see today and already raging.
As much as I was definitely a Nintendo kid, I had a lot of friends with the Genesis and several in college with the DC and a lot of the library was legitimately just not for me. Until I was married, the only Sega console I ever owned, personally, was a Saturn and it was way, way after the fact. Wife had a Genesis rather than a SNES and we bought the Genesis mini more for her than me. I just don't have the fondest of memories of them other than some of their titles like VF. It's telling that a large number of the well-regarded games on their systems weren't their own.
Saturn was impressive at first. I wanted one as a Sega fan. I knew Daytona and VF and I didn't really know Tekken and RR as well. But after 1996 a lot of stores stopped taking the system seriously and the game selection on shelves wasn't anything to write home about while the Playstation took all the space with excellent software. By 1998 almost no store carried any new Saturn software. I've never seen the likes of BR, SF3 and PDS on store shelves.
Saturn was mainly great if you imported. But a lot of it was 2D and that wasn't something I was interested in at the time. A while after the system was discontinued I built a collection and owned about 80 import games at some point. Funny enough I never owned a 4 in 1, I just bought a JP unit and used the official RAM carts. Saturn was better than Dreamcast to be honest. There simply was more variety. That could also have been because in Japan the system actually lasted quite a few years. I simply found it to be a better system, it was silent, had relatively fast load times and didn't make noise. Control pad was better than DC pad too. Saturn also was my CD player for a while, GOAT UI and good features.
But in hindsight the systems are awfully similar. They both offer a lot of very bare bones Arcade games. Which wasn't that appealing anymore when the DC was on the market. DC had more experimental stuff though.
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if mascot platformers are the only genre that you liked from the respective generation, maybe i could see your point-- but i prefer Rocket Knight Adventure over all else and that's only on MD/Genesis.