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BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,033
First off, this thread is not here to shit all over Horizon: Forbidden West. But it is another latest example of shitty black hair. So, hush your mouth and listen before you try and say something.

Black hair in video games has been notoriously trash. See:


As such I feel we need a whole new thread not just based on a funny video, but pointing out why even today shit is trash and why this seems more of a choice than technical limitation.

To start off with Horizon, the game isn't actually totally horrendous when it comes to black hair. But it does display a noticeable lack of attention to detail that boggles my mind. For instance, you will see certain characters with black hair texture that shouldn't have it, yet full on black people with white hair texture. I'll explain.

Let's start with my boi here near the start of the game. This man has amazing facial textures and animation, and his actual haircut approximates a black fade. But take a second look, dude is clearly rocking white dude hair. That is NOT black hair texture. You can see this better in the second pic.

FMU_abrXsAEFdGw


FMU_ctuXwAAtL92


Now while the devs at least tried to get close to a black hairstyle above, you've also got old hats with full on perms in the middle of the primitive jungle in this game. Who the fuck is perming my dude's hair all the way out here?

FMU1cv7XsAA1Vek



But Boss, maybe black hair texture is hard and they can't do it properly. First off, this is a game that puts peach fuzz on Aloy's face because that's how detail heavy they are. Sooooo, I don't believe it. Butttttttttt guess what? They do have black hair texture. Observe:

FMU_fMpWQAU72vz


Alright then, this nigga out here in the desert actually has black hair with black hair texture. No sir, this is not some white hair sculpted into some monstrosity to resemble black a hairstyle. Which means the developers already did the work to create black hair texture for this horrendous mohawk (no offense, guy) yet my boi up top has to suffer a white hair fade? What's more hilarious is you can find white women with this same type of black hair texture hairstyle in the game. Guerilla, were you even paying attention?

But what about Varl?! I'm getting to him, hush. Now Varl has some really nice dreads going on. Check it out:

Varl_screenshot.png

3bddcc2c384f363850993c38b54fe6ce6fc7bfec.gifv



Because I like the attempt, I won't hate on Varl too much. But a game that wants to be praised for excessive detail has to understand where they are fucking up. Varl looks good...on the top. But check out his sides, guess what? White hair texture sides and not even properly faded (see gif). Also his beard is clearly white hair texture, not black hair texture. I guess that's why Aloy demanded he shave it off, it was against GOD himself. Now compare Varl's cut with this from Demon's Souls below, notice how attention is paid to convincing you this is black hair texture. Also notice how his sides are faded, hell this man even had his sides lined up. Praise this barber:

50566766908_52b82061f2_o.0.jpg



Again, I'm not trying to single out Horizon since they are merely following a long line of developers who just do not seem to pay any attention to this stuff. But I do. Now apologists will claim, as previously alluded to, that black hair texture is just hard to get right. They talk about just now having the technology and skilled artists to do this stuff. These people are liars, how do I know? Play any NBA 2K game and you'll see a plethora of perfectly crafted black hairstyles. Take note:

maxresdefault.jpg


maxresdefault.jpg


maxresdefault.jpg


NBA-2K22-LaMelo-Ball-Cyberface.png


maxresdefault.jpg


maxresdefault.jpg


Go ahead though, sound off how black hair is so hard to do while 2K cranks out a game every year with perfect black hair. Devs, hire some black people or go to a black barber shop and learn something because you ain't fooling me trying to pass off white hair as black. End rant.
 

Unicorn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
9,567
Yes, the white texture for black styles is especially glaring.
 

Ovvv

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jan 11, 2019
10,030
Not praising that barber for that weak ass lineup.

Strong agree with the thread though
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,554
For reference.

www.vice.com

Black Hair in Video Games Is Terrible. These 3D Artists Are Changing That.

The Open Source Afro Hair Library, slated to launch on Juneteenth 2023, will be the gaming world’s first free database of 3D-modeled Black hairstyles.

Support these people. Because with the way things are going, the only way we're gonna get good black hair in games is if developers don't have to put any effort into it.

Edit: IMO - I don't think that 2k hair looks very good at all, but out here rocking two twist dreads so, you don't have to listen to me.
 

barley

Banned
Aug 16, 2018
312
Complete agree. However, seems like 2K games have less game systems going on than Horizon, so they can focus more on the hairstyles + get them accurate. Plus ofc most players are black, so it's makes sense it's the main focus. Having said that, the Demon's Souls shot is amazing and clearly better than Horizon. Reality is I guarantee most of the Horizon staff is white. AND they're in the Netherlands, white as can be. There's like no black people there, which is sad, so the team probably has little experience around them. We're lucky in the US we have such diversity, especially in places like NYC + people are overall more aware of race in the US for better or worse. One would hope/imagine the 2K developers are more sensitive to and aware of black culture.

Overall though, yes it should be much better.
 

Classybro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
577
First off, this thread is not here to shit all over Horizon: Forbidden West. But it is another latest example of shitty black hair. So, hush your mouth and listen before you try and say something.

Black hair in video games has been notoriously trash. See:


As such I feel we need a whole new thread not just based on a funny video, but pointing out why even today shit is trash and why this seems more of a choice than technical limitation.

To start off with Horizon, the game isn't actually totally horrendous when it comes to black hair. But it does display a noticeable lack of attention to detail that boggles my mind. For instance, you will see certain characters with black hair texture that shouldn't have it, yet full on black people with white hair texture. I'll explain.

Let's start with my boi here near the start of the game. This man has amazing facial textures and animation, and his actual haircut approximates a black fade. But take a second look, dude is clearly rocking white dude hair. That is NOT black hair texture. You can see this better in the second pic.

FMU_abrXsAEFdGw


FMU_ctuXwAAtL92


Now while the devs at least tried to get close to a black hairstyle above, you've also got old hats with full on perms in the middle of the primitive jungle in this game. Who the fuck is perming my dude's hair all the way out here?

FMU1cv7XsAA1Vek



But Boss, maybe black hair texture is hard and they can't do it properly. First off, this is a game that puts peach fuzz on Aloy's face because that's how detail heavy they are. Sooooo, I don't believe it. Butttttttttt guess what? They do have black hair texture. Observe:

FMU_fMpWQAU72vz


Alright then, this nigga out here in the desert actually has black hair with black hair texture. No sir, this is not some white hair sculpted into some monstrosity to resemble black a hairstyle. Which means the developers already did the work to create black hair texture for this horrendous mohawk (no offense, guy) yet my boi up top has to suffer a white hair fade? What's more hilarious is you can find white women with this same type of black hair texture hairstyle in the game. Guerilla, were you even paying attention?

But what about Varl?! I'm getting to him, hush. Now Varl has some really nice dreads going on. Check it out:

Varl_screenshot.png

3bddcc2c384f363850993c38b54fe6ce6fc7bfec.gifv



Because I like the attempt, I won't hate on Varl too much. But a game that wants to be praised for excessive detail has to understand where they are fucking up. Varl looks good...on the top. But check out his sides, guess what? White hair texture sides and not even properly faded (see gif). Also his beard is clearly white hair texture, not black hair texture. I guess that's why Aloy demanded he shave it off, it was against GOD himself. Now compare Varl's cut with this from Demon's Souls below, notice how attention is paid to convincing you this is black hair texture. Also notice how his sides are faded, hell this man even had his sides lined up. Praise this barber:

50566766908_52b82061f2_o.0.jpg



Again, I'm not trying to single out Horizon since they are merely following a long line of developers who just do not seem to pay any attention to this stuff. But I do. Now apologists will claim, as previously alluded to, that black hair texture is just hard to get right. They talk about just now having the technology and skilled artists to do this stuff. These people are liars, how do I know? Play any NBA 2K game and you'll see a plethora of perfectly crafted black hairstyles. Take note:

maxresdefault.jpg


maxresdefault.jpg


maxresdefault.jpg


NBA-2K22-LaMelo-Ball-Cyberface.png


maxresdefault.jpg


maxresdefault.jpg


Go ahead though, sound off how black hair is so hard to do while 2K cranks out a game every year with perfect black hair. Devs, hire some black people or go to a black barber shop and learn something because you ain't fooling me trying to pass off white hair as black. End rant.

Title is confusing I was thinking black hair is fine but black people hair is wack lol
 

G-X

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,346
in addition to NBA2K, i will throw Metahumans into the mix as well

in fact what epic is doing here with not just hair but also skin features for darker complexions is really great stuff. I actually think white people look like trash in metahumans in comparison, at least based on what I have been able to do with it so far.

some default character screens
2.jpg

3.jpg


and then a real quick and messy edit i did of that base character
4.jpg
 

Lucini

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,529
It's hell trying to create any reasonable Black avatar for so many reasons.

I can't get my hair right ever, I keep a short cut with a fade and almost all of them don't have a line up, or if I want to make myself from high school with long hair — they don't have my long curls at all. It's Afro with no shape up or nothing.

Skin color too, I'm light skinned — I can either be light brown, but two shades darker than me in real life or I'm slightly pale yellow or I'm a white guy with Black features.
 
OP
OP
BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,033
It's hell trying to create any reasonable Black avatar for so many reasons.

I can't get my hair right ever, I keep a short cut with a fade and almost all of them don't have a line up, or if I want to make myself from high school with long hair — they don't have my long curls at all. It's Afro with no shape up or nothing.

Skin color too, I'm light skinned — I can either be light brown, but two shades darker than me in real life or I'm slightly pale yellow or I'm a white guy with Black features.

From what I've repeatedly seen, white developers have no idea what a shape up is.
 

Aurc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,890
Hair aside, those Horizon models are insane. I can't believe how detailed those faces are.
 

Feep

Lead Designer, Iridium Studios
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,603
What do POC think of Miles in Spider Man? I remember the trailer getting some buzz for the hair tech, not sure how it ended up shaking out.

Edit: In Miles Morales I mean
 
Last edited:

Vee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,554
What do POC think of Miles in Spider Man? I remember the trailer getting some buzz for the hair tech, not sure how it ended up shaking out.
I liked it in the Miles Morales game, a HUGE glow up from whatever the fuck was on his head in Spider-Man PS4
 

Black Mantis

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,123
AND they're in the Netherlands, white as can be. There's like no black people there, which is sad, so the team probably has little experience around them.

This isn't quite true. I went to Amsterdam a couple of times and I saw plenty of black people there. This is also a country where they've had the likes of Seedorf, Edgar Davids, and Patrick Kluivert amongst the most widely recognised people in sports. Not as many as France or England, but definitely more than Spain or Eastern European countries to draw reference from.
 

Trunchisholm

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,403
This isn't quite true. I went to Amsterdam a couple of times and I saw plenty of black people there. This is also a country where they've had the likes of Seedorf, Edgar Davids, and Patrick Kluivert amongst the most widely recognised people in sports. Not as many as France or England, but definitely more than Spain or Eastern European countries to draw reference from.
Yeah, lots of black people from Suriname. Saying that there are no black people in the Netherlands is just wrong. Plus that wouldn't excuse them in the slightest.
 

EraLurker24

Member
Feb 9, 2022
985
Begs the question: where are we in these rooms? Why are we not included in these conversations? Why aren't our perspectives, appearances, experiences considered?

Feel confident in saying that most game studios are not diverse at all. I also have trouble finding a brown skin color that approximates my own in games, always comes out looking wrong
 

Aswitch

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,125
Los Angeles, CA
One day I hope I can actually fully represent my hairstyle in real life in a video game consistently...one day....

What do POC think of Miles in Spider Man? I remember the trailer getting some buzz for the hair tech, not sure how it ended up shaking out.
Did him DIRTY in the first game. Thankfully redeemed him in Miles Morales.
 

Neonep

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,755
Yeah… It's been rough out here. Gotta find a way to make this better. It's more likely because the actual people making the games have zero attachment to black culture due to the majority of game development teams are white people.

We gotta encourage the youths that the games industry is a viable career path. I myself didn't really think so all that much until some events in 2019 changed that.
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,399
Canada
There are so many fantastic hairstyles too, it's honestly a drag that a lot of developers have failed to either incorporate often or replicate it well.
 

Ra

Rap Genius
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
12,217
Dark Space
NO GAME, did me more dirty than Dragon Age: Inquisition, I have saved this screenshot of my character to make sure Bioware never loses this shame. Put this one in the Hall of Fame for fuck my shit up character creator hairlines.

UI7uDBa.png


op1KYJU.gif
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,973
Developers just don't care about Black people enough to correct this. It's a harsh truth. We've seen Western developers do the work for games centered in Japan or other countries. We've seen Japanese developers do the work for games set in Europe and the west. There is really no excuse. Hell, even a quick google search on Black hairstyles could go a long way. They just don't care.
 

Merc_

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,540
Yep, it continues to be say something that only sports games seem to give enough of a fuck to get it right.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,819
I don't know about your first example. Maybe I have to go back or it's hard to tell for me while I'm looking at my phone, but his hair reminds me of how my hair looked back when I had some.

I agree on Varl's beard though. That shit is disappointing.
 

Magicgamer

Member
Oct 28, 2017
455
At this point I just expect it. Here in London I can grow my hair out for like 8 weeks and then get a hair cut and my white male colleagues would not notice any difference. They're ignorant to black people's hair and not really interested in educating themselves on it so you actually need black people around to stress the importance of it.

That Aloy comment on Varl's beard was disgusting.
 

wollywinka

Member
Feb 15, 2018
3,099
NO GAME, did me more dirty than Dragon Age: Inquisition, I have saved this screenshot of my character to make sure Bioware never loses this shame. Put this one in the Hall of Fame for fuck my shit up character creator hairlines.

UI7uDBa.png

Lol. Hold my beer. Here's my character from Andromeda. BioWare even decided to give him blue eyes when I gave him brown. Also, the darker skin tone doesn't even meet his hairline. Looks like a White person in blackface. Don't even get me started on the Caucasian features. Nightmare fuel. Bioware has a lot to answer for.

xiqO52L.jpg
 
OP
OP
BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,033
NO GAME, did me more dirty than Dragon Age: Inquisition, I have saved this screenshot of my character to make sure Bioware never loses this shame. Put this one in the Hall of Fame for fuck my shit up character creator hairlines.

UI7uDBa.png


op1KYJU.gif

I was actually going to use this one as an example too, basically the only decent fade option in the game and the hairline is super fucked. Also DAI has a few black hair texture styles, but they're god awful though with shitty line ups.
 

Ruisu

Banned
Aug 1, 2019
5,535
Brasil
So genuine question since this is something I've never heard of irl, is the difference between black hair texture and white hair texture the aspect of it being (or not being) straight strands?
 
OP
OP
BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,033
So genuine question since this is something I've never heard of irl, is the difference between black hair texture and white hair texture the aspect of it being (or not being) straight strands?

No idea the science behind, but afro-textured hair is simply comprised of individual coiled strands as opposed to individually straight or wavy strands found in white hair.
 

Ra

Rap Genius
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
12,217
Dark Space

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,200
Lol. Hold my beer. Here's my character from Andromeda. BioWare even decided to give him blue eyes when I gave him brown. Also, the darker skin tone doesn't even meet his hairline. Looks like a White person in blackface. Don't even get me started on the Caucasian features. Nightmare fuel. Bioware has a lot to answer for.

xiqO52L.jpg
Is the white band at the top a lighting effect? Please tell me it is a lighting effect.
 

swimming

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,486
yup. NBA 2K is the only one that gets it right in my opinion. and god damn are they good at it. not even talking create a player tho bc even that is just whatever but specifically the actual player models are insane