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What should be done with Infatuation base moves like Attract and G-Max Cuddle?

  • Keep them as they currently are.

    Votes: 67 26.7%
  • Change them to allow them to affect all Pokemon.

    Votes: 39 15.5%
  • Remove them from the games.

    Votes: 21 8.4%
  • I don't mind what they do, this is an over-reaction.

    Votes: 177 70.5%

  • Total voters
    251

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,071
Yesterday, we got the reveal of the Gigantimax Eevee. Something you can get in your Pokemon Sword and Shield game if you have save data from Pokemon Let's Go: Eevee Edition. It looks like this:

pokemon_geevee_2x.png


One of the key defining features is the rather large Fur it get's. The website describes at such.


Its luscious fur will enamor its opponents
The fur around its neck has become extra fluffy and luxurious thanks to Gigantamax power. Any opponent caught in this fur becomes enamored with Eevee and loses the will to fight.

Please note the "Any Opponent" part of the comment here.

One of the reasons you want to use Eevee is it's Signature Gigantamax Move, the G-Max Cuddle. A high damaging move that will also make your opponent fall in love with you (They get affected the Infatuation status that Attract has had since Gen 2.)

10_16_geevee_5.jpg


10_16_geevee_6.jpg


Here's the rub though. Again to take from the Website.

Normal-type attacks used by Gigantamax Eevee will change to G-Max Cuddle. G-Max Cuddle doesn't only deal damage when it hits—any opponent that is the opposite gender of Eevee will become infatuated!

Why are we still in the situation where Pokemon can only fall in love with the opposite gender? The description earlier on says that any pokemon that get's caught in it's Fur is Enamored, but the move for some reason only allows it so pokemon of the opposite gender get's enamored instead. And why exactly is that the case? Why can't a same gendered pokemon also fall in love with Eevee and it's giant fur, why can't a genderless pokemon fall in love?

It's been a problem since Attract got introduced way back in Gen 2, but the argument could have been made they just overlooked the move and didn't update it in the past. But now here's a brand new signature move on a popular Pokemon and it's still using the outdated Only Opposite Genders can love each other mindset.

Now before you say it doing such a change would break the meta if they changed the Infatuation Status, firstly you should start thinking about priorities, then after that...

1. Attract and Infatuation hasn't ever really been that strong in the mainline games. It's generally seen as a weaker version of the Paralysis status effect in that locks you out of doing something for a turn, whilst Infatuation is twice as likely to lock you out of a move over Paralysis, it loses out on the lowered speed effect of paralysis, and can be removed by switching out the infatuated Pokemon or the Pokemon that used attract either Switches out or being KO'd, mainly to balance out that Attract is given to more Pokemon (Paralysis is primarily for Electric Types, those that can learn Thunderwave, and the odd Grass Type using Stun Spore). Allowing it to hit more Pokemon isn't going to make any of the counters for dealing with the Status Effect any harder to do.

2. The Infatuation status effect is even less effective in Competitive Preferred format of Doubles due to the higher pace of Double Battles and the ability for your 2nd Pokemon to focus down the Pokemon using Attract.

3. Even if it does somehow turn out to break the game, you can then build counters for it. There is already the Oblivious Ability that prevents Infatuation, that can be spread to some more Pokemon. Aroma Viel does the same. You can also weaken the moves as well, like how Thunder Wave got an accuracy reduction between Gen 6 and 7 due to it being fairly dominant in the Gen 6 VGC thanks to Prankster Thunderus and similar users.

4. Lastly... this is a Gigantimax Move, these are supposed to be the strongest of all strong moves in the game. It's alright if it's overpowered because Gigantimax is balanced by only lasting for 3 turns in the entire match.

Compare it to Gigantimax Pikachu, also revealed yesterday and the bonus if you have Pokemon Let's Go: Pikachu Edition save data. It's Signature Gigantimax is an Electric Type move that deals a large amount of damage and paralysis all opponent Pokemon, even Ground Type Pokemon that are normally immune to Electric Type move.

10_16_gpikachu_5.jpg

10_16_gpikachu_6.jpg


I will end this by saying that Pokemon hasn't been completely oblivious to the LGBT scene, ever since Sun and Moon the games have removed the initial "Are you a boy or are you a Girl?" question that kicked off the older games in the series and have instead replaced it with asking with what you look like instead.

Pokemon-Lets-Go.jpg


It would just be nice if it could go the final extra distance and remove all backwards and outdated ideas as possible. So to see a big new Pokemon reveal with a new move that reverts back to the outdated mindset is disappointing. And it is best if attention is drawn to it so hopefully they can update this one small status effect to allow all Pokemon to love each other and not have it locked to arbitrary Different Gender that really shouldn't be a thing anymore.

After all, it's Pokemon. If a Skitty and a Wailord can fall in love and can have a kid together, why can't two Pokemon of the Same Gender love each-other if they wish to do so?
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,299
Houston, TX
Hopefully this gets changed going forward. That plus the ability for anyone to wear any piece of clothing (unless I'm mistaken, certain pieces of clothing are gender-locked).
 

Crayolan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,756
Infatuation would be redundant as a game mechanic if it affected all pokemon, there are already multiple other statuses which have a chance of making a pokemon lose their turn. Plus it makes the gender of your pokemon matter a teensy bit more, encouraging the player to not go all males/females incase they run into a boss with attract.

Don't think it about it too hard.
 

Yukiko

Member
Feb 21, 2019
904
Spain
Attract being able to affect any 'mon regardless of gender hmm... Swagger and confusion status were nerfed for a reason so no, thanks!

Remember that the infatuated status makes it so that you have a 50% chance of not moving and it only goes away if either the user or the target switches out.

I know there ways to counter it but still it would be a bit too hot... As I said, Swagger was similar to that and it was nerfed because it was abused to death in VGC

Edit: Oh my god I just realized this would be even more broken than Swagger since Attract is 100% accurate whereas Swagger was 90% (and then it went down to 85% when Confusion got nerfed too)
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,127
They can make every character openly gay but please for the love of god don't make a move that immobilizes the enemy half the time work on every Pokemon.
 

Madao

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,684
Panama
i'm in the camp that thinks they should just throw out this status overall. if it worked on all genders, it'd be just a more broken paralysis since you couldn't block it by getting a burn/poison or rest it away and it'd be pretty redundant.
 
Jan 3, 2019
3,219
Infatuation would be redundant as a game mechanic if it affected all pokemon, there are already multiple other statuses which have a chance of making a pokemon lose their turn. Plus it makes the gender of your pokemon matter a teensy bit more, encouraging the player to not go all males/females incase they run into a boss with attract.

Don't think it about it too hard.
Would be kinda fun if they used the hidden personality values to make a smaller number of Pokémon enfatuated by the same gender, but it would make the move less reliable overall cause you wouldn't know wether or not the target is affected. Plus it would make those rarer Pokémon more desirable to have in a competitive team I suppose.

I can't think of a solution that would maintain balance, so I dunno.
 
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Xavi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,772
Lightning for Smash
Infatuation would be redundant as a game mechanic if it affected all pokemon, there are already multiple other statuses which have a chance of making a pokemon lose their turn. Plus it makes the gender of your pokemon matter a teensy bit more, encouraging the player to not go all males/females incase they run into a boss with attract.

Don't think it about it too hard.
This is where I'm at.
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,127
If they added a "gay" icon next to the Pokemon's gender symbol, then Attract could still function as a non-redundant gameplay mechanic. Then every male Pokemon with Attract would have Attract work on both straight female Pokemon and gay male Pokemon, etc.

But I think it's fine as is. I would rather see a gay human NPC first.
 

Trace

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,689
Canada
From a game balance standpoint that'd be broken as hell.

Personally I'd rather they just throw out the whole status condition altogether.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,652
Its a gameplay mechanic that intentionally makes use of the fact that it wont work on half the Pokemon. Treating it as some kind of slight is uh... really now?
Its a disappointingly shitty move for an exclusive Pokemon though.
 

Maxina

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,308
Infatuation would be redundant as a game mechanic if it affected all pokemon, there are already multiple other statuses which have a chance of making a pokemon lose their turn. Plus it makes the gender of your pokemon matter a teensy bit more, encouraging the player to not go all males/females incase they run into a boss with attract.

Don't think it about it too hard.
This should have been the first post. It takes away from strategy if all pokemon can get infatuated.
 

Renteka-Bond

Chicken Chaser
Member
Dec 28, 2017
4,260
Clearwater, Florida
It would make infatuation an overpowered mechanic and would defeat the purpose of having gender in Pokemon in the first place. Removing it would make the only purpose for gender I can think of:

Gating off Eggs
Gating off Evos

Infatuation being a conditional, risky, part of a moveset is one of the only strategic reasons to have gender, imo.
 

Hero Prinny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,189
User Banned (1 Day): Thread Whining, Antagonizing another member.
I understand, op. sometimes you're just in the mood to find something to get offended about. I can't say I relate to the feeling but I get it.
 

tsampikos

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,613
It's silly that there aren't abilities like this that don't have a 100% success rates. The game already has tons of stuff that isn't balanced which is why categories and metas exist in the first place.

Just do it cowards.
 

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,801
I think freedom of clothing, hairstyle and makeup when customizing your own character is way more important than changing infatuation.
 

--R

Being sued right now, please help me find a lawyer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,759
It would make the mechanic useless.
 

Illusion

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,407
Maybe there should be a random chance a Pokemon may he gay? Like add an hidden value.

Or would that nerf the move that already doesn't see much use competitive-wise?
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
The idea of making Infatuation work on literally any enemy Pokemon is daft.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,915
They should just get rid of infatuation in general since can only plan on using it half the time, you just have to hope that the pokemon you're fighting is the opposite gender. I know that's the point, but I've never liked it
 

RochHoch

One Winged Slayer
Member
May 22, 2018
18,884
I've always seen Attract being like how wild animals use pheromones to drawn in the opposite sex. I don't see the problem with that.

It's a pretty worthless status though, nobody would care if they got rid of it.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,652
They should just get rid of infatuation in general since can only plan on using it half the time, you just have to hope that the pokemon you're fighting is the opposite gender. I know that's the point, but I've never liked it

The gender is clearly displayed next to their names in battle which is more intuitive than many moves in Pokemon.
 

Sheev

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,814
Actual gay characters is a far more important topic than a silly infatuation mechanic.
 

Busaiku

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,416
Infatuation would not be redundant if it affected all sexes.
Flinch is guaranteed, but only lasts a turn. Confusion potentially damages you.

It's like saying Sleep, Freeze, or Paralysis are redundant.
They all have different effects.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,652
Infatuation would not be redundant if it affected all sexes.
Flinch is guaranteed, but only lasts a turn. Confusion potentially damages you.

It's like saying Sleep, Freeze, or Paralysis are redundant.
They all have different effects.

Switching to capitalize on the little icons next to the nametag isn't that deep, but its still strategic.
 

Tagg

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,717
We do not need gay Pokemon. Better representation for Pokemon trainers? Sure. But requests like this are just ridiculous.
 

milkyway

One Winged Slayer
Member
May 17, 2018
3,004
Ok so first of all to everyone arguing the mechanics, Attract sucks. If it affected all Pokemon, it'd still mostly, because you can switch out of it and not retain the status. It'd maybe not suck in doubles format but not be all that great either.

Although second of all, we're talking about cartoon animals and as a queer person I could care less from an LGBT standpoint. If they were going to do anything, make characters queer not Pokemon.
 

Apollo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,090
I want gay trainers ofc, but I'd like it if Pokémon could be gay too. No reason we shouldn't be able to have both.
 

Leo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,554
Yeah, that bugged me too when I saw the trailer.

People are whining it would break the game, but I'm sure GF could think of a way around it if they cared about the issue, it's not like they haven't heavily changed moves in the past to make them more balanced.
 

meataem

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Jun 29, 2019
1,266
I don't think I'm gonna be losing any sleep over the severe lack of bisexual cartoon animals any time soon.
 

Deleted member 38050

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 10, 2018
706
It's a game mechanic with a use and a purpose. Come on.
Infatuation would be redundant as a game mechanic if it affected all pokemon, there are already multiple other statuses which have a chance of making a pokemon lose their turn. Plus it makes the gender of your pokemon matter a teensy bit more, encouraging the player to not go all males/females incase they run into a boss with attract.

Don't think it about it too hard.
Pretty much this.
 
OP
OP
KillstealWolf

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,071
We technically have had a trans character in Kalos, but it's a trainer most people probably missed because it was only in the Battle Maison.

I would also like the gender lock on clothes taken out as well.
 

Sandfox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,743
Imo I wouldn't considering breeding falling in love, much like how breeding two dogs isn't them falling in love.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
Infatuation would be redundant as a game mechanic if it affected all pokemon, there are already multiple other statuses which have a chance of making a pokemon lose their turn. Plus it makes the gender of your pokemon matter a teensy bit more, encouraging the player to not go all males/females incase they run into a boss with attract.

Don't think it about it too hard.
It's not like games don't cut some status ailments. Persona hasn't had charm since 3.

There already cutting pokemon whats a few moves if they don't want to fix this?
 

Hero_Select

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,008
I feel like I have to preface this by saying I'm bi lest I'm labeled as something but.. this is really silly.
 

kirbyfan407

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,103
I'll have to admit that as someone in the LGBT community, I did notice the opposite gender note when the Pokémon news came out, and it did make me pause for a brief moment. At the same time, I don't care that much. My preference would be that they figure out how to incorporate the move's strategy and balance in a way that wasn't heteronormative (but also didn't require that every Pokémon get a sexuality).

I also know that I don't know how homosexuality works in non-human animals, which Pokémon seem to generally be based on; are there examples of exclusively homosexual animals who disregard the mating rituals/triggers (e.g. pheromones) of opposite-sex members of their species? Obviously, Pokémon also includes things like keys and ice cream and doesn't have to follow what the animal kingdom does; this is perhaps more just me being curious.
 
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borat

Banned
Jan 2, 2018
534
i think gay pokemon is pretty low down on the list of societal values we need to challenge