When has providing less options ever led to more praise? It's designed to be accessible and that's far better than literally any other way it could've been designed
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It would harm accessibility but TLOU 1/2 would get more acclaim for its gameplay if survivor was the only difficulty
- Thread starter leng jai
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100% agreed about the experience. I'm doing my 2nd run to nab all the cards I missed on Survivor and man, every encounter is heart-pounding because there's times when there's 6 enemies and I'll have something like 6 bullets spread out among 4 guns. Really forces you to use your wits and think about things knowing you can't just go guns blazing if it goes tits up. I've spent time leaving mines in places, sneaking past people to find the perfect vantage point, throwing a bottle to draw them towards the mines and then lying on my belly in the grass with the sniper. It's tense and very different to my first play through on moderate.
Of course it would never really work as the lone difficulty, as pointed out, your average buyer would hate this, but it's definitely a great experience that I've found is elevating things for sure.
Of course it would never really work as the lone difficulty, as pointed out, your average buyer would hate this, but it's definitely a great experience that I've found is elevating things for sure.
Sorry, I can't agree at all. My first taste of Naught Dogs games was with the Uncharted Collection in 2017, and let me tell you, It was hard for me to keep motivated in some parts of those games. Uncharted 1 especially, but my friend who played through all of the Naughty Dog games told me to push through. But man, these don't feel good to play, they just don't. Shooting never feels good, the movement of the characters never feel responsive and sometimes it straight up doesn't feel fair in certain situations. Playing on Normal on any of the Naughty Dog games (So far I've played Uncharted 1 -3 and currently playing TLOU 1 now) is a lesson in frustration and just feels like "I got to get through this" so I can enjoy the other parts of the game. I love the set designs, the scope of the worlds they create, I love exploring empty houses and seeing how the world was before the infection, but as soon as a combat sequence starts, I just roll my eyes and try to power through it. I have the same feelings towards the Uncharted games and it ends up being spectacle over gameplay for unfortunately.
Havent played TLOU2 enough but hard disagree on 1, I dont find the core gameplay near compelling enough at that difficulty, the mechanics are not good enough.
I tried playing the first game on harder difficulties and it just added frustration rather than excitement to the game.
Missing a shot when every bullet counts feels bad and you're better off dying. It becomes trial and error very quickly so I don't screw myself for future encounters.
I like the idea of having to be more careful with my resources and making quick decisions in combat - but it just never works out the way I think it will.
I played Last of Us 2 on the default difficulty and had a good time. There were only a couple of encounters where I died repeatedly, probably due to my own lack of patience.
Stealth for as long as possible then Rambo when discovered.
It's weird because I love stealth games. I'm playing through Splinter Cell 1 again on its hardest mode, so the idea of a slow paced methodical stealth doesn't bother me. But it does in Last of Us. I think it's due to shape of the combat environments which makes it difficult to account for the location of every enemy and you end up getting spotted. Even with listen mode and even with the audio cue that you're visible.
Missing a shot when every bullet counts feels bad and you're better off dying. It becomes trial and error very quickly so I don't screw myself for future encounters.
I like the idea of having to be more careful with my resources and making quick decisions in combat - but it just never works out the way I think it will.
I played Last of Us 2 on the default difficulty and had a good time. There were only a couple of encounters where I died repeatedly, probably due to my own lack of patience.
Stealth for as long as possible then Rambo when discovered.
It's weird because I love stealth games. I'm playing through Splinter Cell 1 again on its hardest mode, so the idea of a slow paced methodical stealth doesn't bother me. But it does in Last of Us. I think it's due to shape of the combat environments which makes it difficult to account for the location of every enemy and you end up getting spotted. Even with listen mode and even with the audio cue that you're visible.
Fuck that, I'll enjoy playing the games the way I want. I really appreciate the granularity that TLOU 2 has in it's difficulty settings.
Also the game almost certainly wouldn't sell as well if it only had survivor difficulty.
Also the game almost certainly wouldn't sell as well if it only had survivor difficulty.
One of my favorite things about TLOU2 is its accessibility options. I prefer custom difficulty options and TLOU2 has one of the most robust sets I've ever seen. They make playing the game as challenging as I like.
Yes. TLoU was already amazing gameplay wise but Part II is God-Tier. I'm playing on Survivor without using List Mode and I'm having some of the best experiences I've ever had with a game. Truly intense stuff.
PS: But I don't think it should be forced on everybody.
PS: But I don't think it should be forced on everybody.
I see. I don't put much value in counting so many instead of just the most the most relevant/bigger ones, but it's still a good point.
I agree with OP.
There's nothing like this game on Survivor on the market. Only issues is that such a mode can get in the way of the story and with how long game is Survivor really inflates the time for completion and the sections you think drag on Normal are basically an anchor on Survivor lol.
There's nothing like this game on Survivor on the market. Only issues is that such a mode can get in the way of the story and with how long game is Survivor really inflates the time for completion and the sections you think drag on Normal are basically an anchor on Survivor lol.
The accessibility options in TLOU2 are so much better than any other game I've played. I'm not using slow mo aiming, but it's great that it's there for anyone who wants it. Just as it's great that there are 5 standard difficulty levels. ND made the game they wanted to make.
The reload after deaths is so fast that I haven't felt that way at all. But I haven't got stuck anywhere yet.
Honestly we shouldn't worry about critics or other people just playing it once on a lower difficulty... they obviously don't care enough to want to explore everything the game has to offer. Me personally? I LOVE having the option of starting on a lower difficulty and graduating to higher difficulties on subsequent runs. There's just so much more value in the game that way.
I feel like reviewers in general have barely talked about the gameplay when it's probably the best TPS maybe ever?
I wish the option to disable Listen Mode was in the game day one, I winced at the forced usage of it in the tutorial, and was disappointed at how upgrades for it are sprinkled throughout the perk trees. These characters aren't superhuman, you shouldn't be able to see enemy outlines through walls.
I appreciate what the OP is saying and there is a certain drawback there, but I also respect that they recognize prioritizing accessibility was the right decision. And it is: accessibility and inclusivity above all. Games are for everyone.
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If anything, these debates increasingly highlight why more options to customise difficulty is better and that limitations only serve to arbitrarily exclude players from enjoying a game. That really isn't a good thing, no matter how people attempt to excuse it. Accessibility or not, there is no one-size-fits-all when it comes to any particular game's challenge - Souls fans would do well to take note of that.
You're arguing that there should be less ways to play because gameplay would be improved, but you're not taking in to account that not everyone would enjoy the way you think they should play.
Game is fine with the choices it has for the wide amount of players it has.
Game is fine with the choices it has for the wide amount of players it has.
This is honestly a bad suggestion, OP. Normal / Moderate for somebody else likely has the exact same tension that Survivor has for you. At the end of the day, the game is story first, gameplay second. Just because Survivor resonated with you doesn't mean we need to copy and paste your personal experience to every other person who picks the game up.
Great writeup, I completely agree.
I think that Hard does a fine job too without being just a bit too frustrating like I can imagine survivor becoming (too much trial and error for my liking) but there have been moments in this game where I've finally understood why Resident evil is so critically acclaimed and why I should probably actually play one these days.
Always boils down to options anyway, some people struggle with the easiest difficulty so in a sense, even with a ton of ammo they're having just as an intense experience as someone more skilled would on the hardest difficulty.
I think that Hard does a fine job too without being just a bit too frustrating like I can imagine survivor becoming (too much trial and error for my liking) but there have been moments in this game where I've finally understood why Resident evil is so critically acclaimed and why I should probably actually play one these days.
Always boils down to options anyway, some people struggle with the easiest difficulty so in a sense, even with a ton of ammo they're having just as an intense experience as someone more skilled would on the hardest difficulty.
Can confirm survivor mode is the most tonally congruent difficulty setting. It's so, so good. I can't imagine playing it on a lower difficulty. It incentivizes exploration, resource usage, and strategy. The brilliant level and encounter design and the AI really shine.
You will die plenty, but the near instant reload after death makes it a non-issue.
You will die plenty, but the near instant reload after death makes it a non-issue.
Other games can and do perfectly fine with less options. For example, most players know what Iron Man mode is in EU4. Everyone is still impressed whenever something awesome is done with that mode.
At the same time, there are several others including an easy mode. As a result , the ungodly complex game became a bit more accesible but still having the acclaim. People are also very aware that playing at different difficulties pretty much give you a different game entirely, so the consumer gets alot of value form thier gaming bucks.
What you are suggesting would kill or handicap any franchise/ip, and sometimes, for good.
At the same time, there are several others including an easy mode. As a result , the ungodly complex game became a bit more accesible but still having the acclaim. People are also very aware that playing at different difficulties pretty much give you a different game entirely, so the consumer gets alot of value form thier gaming bucks.
What you are suggesting would kill or handicap any franchise/ip, and sometimes, for good.
I love hard RPGs, but I stick easy difficulty options in our games because I want more people to enjoy them. And sometimes it comes back to bite me like when someone complains that the gameplay has no depth because they were playing on a difficulty that was too easy for them, but it's still worth it to accommodate more people.
I plan on replaying on survivor on PS5 so I'm glad to hear it's good, but harming accessibility is never acceptable
OP
OP
I didn't even suggest that the game should have released with just survivor, I'm just saying it might be praised and focused on more in that hypothetical instead of being just seen as a amazing cinematic story driven experience.
Because that was when the game stopped being fun and was just hard for the sake of it.
I never said the game was bad or not fun on lower difficulties, I just said that it doesn't Really take advantage of some gameplay mechanics and improvements.
We'll have to agree to disagree here, I think the gameplay in TLOU 2 is shockingly good and underrated because people mostly talk about the story and graphics.
If you're not dying much and always have heaps of resources then yes.
I even said the OP Naught Dog did it right with all the options. I'm just saying their gameplay might be more praised if more people played it on the higher difficulties instead of just going with normal which is probably what most do because it's the default. Maybe having default be hard or survivor instead would work better.
I never said the game wasn't highly rated, I'm saying the gameplay is amazing but doesn't shine as much on lower difficulties and reviews seem to give the score mainly for graphics and story in these games.
I never suggested they should have actually released the game with survivor only, just merely that they might get more praise for how good the gameplay and mechanics are if players were forced to engage with it more.
Did I say that? TW3 would be awful with death march only because the mechanics in that game aren't that great.
Because that was when the game stopped being fun and was just hard for the sake of it.
I never said the game was bad or not fun on lower difficulties, I just said that it doesn't Really take advantage of some gameplay mechanics and improvements.
We'll have to agree to disagree here, I think the gameplay in TLOU 2 is shockingly good and underrated because people mostly talk about the story and graphics.
If you're not dying much and always have heaps of resources then yes.
I even said the OP Naught Dog did it right with all the options. I'm just saying their gameplay might be more praised if more people played it on the higher difficulties instead of just going with normal which is probably what most do because it's the default. Maybe having default be hard or survivor instead would work better.
I never said the game wasn't highly rated, I'm saying the gameplay is amazing but doesn't shine as much on lower difficulties and reviews seem to give the score mainly for graphics and story in these games.
I never suggested they should have actually released the game with survivor only, just merely that they might get more praise for how good the gameplay and mechanics are if players were forced to engage with it more.
Did I say that? TW3 would be awful with death march only because the mechanics in that game aren't that great.
I started the Game on Survivor but turned it down to Hard after 8 Hours or so. Personally i find the Amount of Resources you get on Survivor to rare while you get to many on Hard, so sadly there is no perfect Setting but personally i prefer to play the Game on Hard as opposed to Survivor because to me the Gameplay Loop of Last of Us is comparable to an high Tense Hide and Seek Play. You kill like 2 Dudes and then get detected because the Enemy AI is actually looking around Corners and then it gets hectic and you have to try to reposition yourself. While your on the Run you shortly hide between Cover and have a very short Firefight until your Path is clear and you can run again. Sometimes even when your hidden again many Enemies will swarm the exact Area you are and it gets even more Intense because you have to come up with a high Risk high Reward Maneuver to get out of this Situation. On Survivor you can never do that, because you have too little Resources and you die too fast. Hard was perfect for me because while i died really fast, i could still attempt those risky Moves and because of the much more frequent Resources i was able to actually craft some of my Tools and use them in Combat. I think Survivor takes too many interesting Gameplay Options from you. Hard achieves the same tense Feeling with you still having more Options.
And that applies to Last of Us II. Naughty Dog just makes everything an instakill or sponge. This isn't Dark Souls where there is only one setting and everything is finely tuned. Playing on a high difficulty just feels...artificially harder. I need more resources, I die too fast, AI can have perfect aim. I went with normal because it just doesn't feel like the higher difficulty settings are fair.
I agree with you. Most people here won't though.
I think both games would be perceived even more critically favorably, especially in terms of the gameplay/game design, if there was a fixed challenging difficulty like Survivor.
When both games are set to that difficulty, the gameplay itself reinforces and elevates the narrative to where a player gets more invested in the characters and world.
I understand wanting to make games that can be played and enjoyed by as many people as possible, both in terms of its a good thing for the most people and it's better business, but I also believe that games really are art forms and that by making things as accessible as possible, that is inherently sacrificing vision/integrity, whether people want to think this or not.
These games are wildly different depending on the difficulty/options selected, to the point where it alters how the content is perceived.
For most people it comes down to what's more important, the creator or the consumer? Should more power be placed into creator's hands or into the consumer's? I'm the kind of person who comes down much more with the creator side of the equation having the most power/control over the content and its consumption, but the majority of people today, it seems, feel much more strongly in the other direction. That the consumer should have the ultimate control in how the art is consumed.
Yeah you get back in really quick which is great, but it's a moment of frustration that I'm not sure I enjoy in games like this. I will fully admit that I don't really like horror games and I've increasingly grown frustrated with stealth gameplay in the last few years so that's where I'm coming from.
I will say after having played it a couple hours now on light difficulty with some combat tweaks (slow mo when aiming for instance), I'm enjoying the combat a lot more. Having a little more breathing room to go Rambo is working for me personally.
yeah like what are we doing here
limiting options so you get the specific praise you want is so weird
