All the people who loved RPGs above all from the SNES/Genesis days jumped to the PlayStation and to a lesser degree the Saturn.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
It is disappointing that the N64 had so little RPG's.
- Thread starter Inglorious Man
- Start date
All the people who loved RPGs above all from the SNES/Genesis days jumped to the PlayStation and to a lesser degree the Saturn.
uhh... also held textures, pre-rendered backgrounds, frames of sprite animation, etc. back in the mid 90s, FMV and live audio were absolutely transformative experiences for games at the time too.
more like... people in the West started discovering JRPGs as a genre around the time of the Playstation.
What I just said and what you just said are not mutually exclusive.
At least there's this which I hear is amazing:
Ogre Battle 64
I still plan to play it someday.
I adore this game.
I was so hyped for the possibilities for the 64DD back in the day.
But in the end, we wouldn't have gotten a more modern Nintendo if they would have succeeded with their SNES/N64 scare tactics.
The west was already playing jrpgs before PS1. Quite a bit infact. For me, and for what the developers were asking for, it was the lack of CD as a media. It was a huge compromise to use a cartridge, and it was very expensive to manufacture them - costs that also went back to the developer. This meant less small RPGs could be made for n64, less risk in small bets, and the the momentum had already shifted from Nintendo so decisions to make RPGs on on Sega/PS was a no brainer.
I did buy an n64 first at the time and it was mostly due to this that I went back to PC gaming and eventually getting the PS. Too essential of a gaming experience for me to miss out on. (Though props to Ogre Battle 64, that was great)
My friends and I were very pro-Nintendo growing up. One of them got a N64 at launch and was very proud of this for a long while, and over the course of that first year, two of our other friends got the console as well. My brothers and I had asked our parents for one for Christmas 1997, but wasn't sure what games to get. My friends all had the same selection, more or less: Mario, Star Fox, Shadows of the Empire, etc. and said that I should only get different games, because we could just borrow each other's games.
But there weren't any other games I wanted to get. I liked those games I listed, but not many more than that. My favorite genre was JRPG followed closely by 2D platformers, which the N64 was lacking... especially in terms of quality. I played a PS1 demo station and surprised by the selection of games. I had never even considered getting a non-Nintendo system, especially from a company new to gaming, but being able to have a demo disc alone was a boon to a kid who was lucky to get two new games a year. Shortly after this, I played FFVII at a neighbor's house and was sold. The PS1 had my 2D games like Megaman and Castlevania, as well as Squaresoft's JRPGs. We told our parents we wanted a PS1 instead of a N64.
My launch-N64 friend was upset at this! He told me that I was buying a PS1 "for one game" and that I would regret it while everyone else was playing their N64s. (Ignoring the fact that I had already played all of their games to death at their houses.)
So anyway, long story short, the following year involved me playing a ton of great games while he bought Quest 64 and tried to find nice things to say about it, and by Christmas '98 he bought himself a PS1.
But there weren't any other games I wanted to get. I liked those games I listed, but not many more than that. My favorite genre was JRPG followed closely by 2D platformers, which the N64 was lacking... especially in terms of quality. I played a PS1 demo station and surprised by the selection of games. I had never even considered getting a non-Nintendo system, especially from a company new to gaming, but being able to have a demo disc alone was a boon to a kid who was lucky to get two new games a year. Shortly after this, I played FFVII at a neighbor's house and was sold. The PS1 had my 2D games like Megaman and Castlevania, as well as Squaresoft's JRPGs. We told our parents we wanted a PS1 instead of a N64.
My launch-N64 friend was upset at this! He told me that I was buying a PS1 "for one game" and that I would regret it while everyone else was playing their N64s. (Ignoring the fact that I had already played all of their games to death at their houses.)
So anyway, long story short, the following year involved me playing a ton of great games while he bought Quest 64 and tried to find nice things to say about it, and by Christmas '98 he bought himself a PS1.
In the West, JRPGs were a niche prior to the Playstation-- that is the point I'm making. I played my fair share of 8 and 16 bit RPGs upon western release too (I grew up with Phantasy Star) but Final Fantasy VII and Pokemon really made the genre mainstream.
This might be the worst add on ever made but Nintendo was smart enough to leave it in Japan so it didn't do any real damage to the company's image.
It was expensive as hell but that was the generation I had access to PC games, a PS1 and a N64. Before that I usually only had one console and played most other games at friends or cousins houses.
Overall that was one of the most exciting times in videogames. A lot of the games from that time were experimental and now seem janky but it seemed like every 3 months something entirely new was being made. Not just new franchises (or which there were tons) but new everything, even genres.
Overall that was one of the most exciting times in videogames. A lot of the games from that time were experimental and now seem janky but it seemed like every 3 months something entirely new was being made. Not just new franchises (or which there were tons) but new everything, even genres.
I have always felt the technology in the N64 was at cross purposes with the direction of the RPG genre, both before the N64 (lack of a dedicated 2D pipeline, etc.) and after (limited memory for "large" pre-rendered raster images, no red book audio or FMV). If Nintendo had set out to create a device that repelled RPG developers of the time they couldn't have done better than the N64.
When I was with a group of friends, we bought a 64DD working developer unit off the shelf of a junk shop in Akihabara back in 2002 for the small price of about $50 USD.
Screenshots like this are why I still kinda like Quest 64. People saw it partially as a warmup for Ocarina of Time. It was probably one of the only RPGs at that time with a full 3D world and full 3D camera. The landscapes and environments still look kinda nice today.Aside from obvious economic reasons (the bigger the games is, the more it cost to produce on cart whereas CD fixed cost to manufacture was cheap and contained enough space for any genre to be equal), I think that the transition phase you described for the RPG genre (even if it used polygons it was conceptually building over the 2D structures refined in previous generations) wouldn't mesh well with the N64 idea of full 3D which the console was pushing at the time.
When a small japanese publisher like Imagineer tackled the genre they were obviously inspired by Mario 64 idea to roam freely in a 3D space and so you have full 3D town and relatively big (for the time) open fields.
But I bet that for a lot of japanese developers that level of complexity was considered not worthy for that specific genre.
It made much more sense to develop 2D or mixed 2D/3D RPG for PS1 or Saturn which build over the templates already honed during previous generation (adding FMV or polygonal characters to give a more next gen feel).
Can you think of any PS1 RPGs that had a fully 3D presentation like this (I never owned one so I'm asking seriously)? The King's Field games? The Saturn version of Baroque? Even those are pure dungeon crawlers I think. It might actually be worth investigating when JRPG developers actually started doing fully 3D open worlds, probably somewhere in the early PS2 era (like Dark Cloud maybe?).
This just makes the GameCube's racing game selection look even sadder. I think R Racing Evolution was the only GCN game that technically counted as a racing sim.
Some of the best real-time cut scenes that whole console generation.
This is pretty much it. The system had less than 300 games total. That tells you all you need to know.
It's 2021 and the 1990s argument over the utility of optical media is still going on.
Anyway, let's not forget that CDs were a hell of a lot cheaper and more versatile to manufacture. Third parties no longer had to tie their launches to cartridge production runs months in advance, which involved predicting needed inventory levels and inflexibly locking them into place. If you had a dud you had a lot of useless and expensive inventory. If you had a hit you had to wait months for another production run. The reason the PS was famous for all its quirky games is because the versatility of CDs allowed companies to take more risks.
Your Japan adventures from that period always sound like fun, the perfect point in time for video game shopping.
You hear correctly. Ogre Battle 64 is amazing, and it's the N64 game I go back to most often for replays. Really takes everything that was great about the first game and refines it into a wonderful experience. It's a shame it isn't more widely available these days.At least there's this which I hear is amazing:
Ogre Battle 64
I still plan to play it someday.
dude, it was incredible. i've been several times since then but i would never suggest going to any of the metro areas of Japan to game shop at this point since they're all priced close to western eBay prices. the amount of weird shit i got for a fraction of current value...
I feel like this is a common story because Sony was new and Nintendo diehards bought a N64 immediately and were in denial about the PlayStation until the evidence was just COMPLETELY overwhelming. I even had a friend who defended Quest 64 whenever the topic of RPGs came up. He didn't get a PS until like 98/99 because it would have hurt his pride to give in any earlier. I didn't give a fuck, all I needed to hear was "The next Final Fantasy (VII) was going to be on this new PlayStation system and not Nintendo's new system" and I was done.
The closest I got was local flea market shopping in 2007. I managed to find consoles like XEGS, Vectrex, Korean Mark III, PC Engine games, and a bunch of other stuff for really cheap.
The Playstation felt like it was going to be huge even before it came out West but I guess not everyone followed the industry closely. But yeah, brand loyalty is stupid. It seemed like a lot of people went NES to SNES to N64 without considering other consoles because Nintendo was what they always had.
Yeah, I had some great flea market finds too. Me and a buddy found a complete copy of both Bubble Bobble 2 and Bonk on NES at a flea market in rural West Virginia around 2001/2002.
I actually really loved Quest 64 growing up. Looking back, it probably hasn't aged well? All that said, yeah, carts were restrictive, and the pull of RPGs can be a chunky game length. PS1 and Saturn just lent theirselves better to the genre. I do wish the DD had done well. It would've done a lot for the 64, and I think a bigger RPG library could've come out of it.
The N64 might have more quality racing games than any other genre, it's just very few of them are of the modern day racing sim variety.
i can't believe they released the damn thing in 1999 in Japan. The Playstation 2 would be out 5 months later... It is miraculous it got released at all.
Disc space. Ff7 pretty much killed any chance for the n64 getting a big hitter. Real music and fmv cutscenes really cut the legs from under the n64.
I bought the N64 at launch just because of Mario 64. I really didn't even consider the future titles.
I poured over every Spaceworld/NoJ press event with pre-release info but I think the Gamefan review of the import N64 really cemented how badly I wanted the game for me.
RPGs are all about variety, scale, and unique assets.
The N64 just wasn't really up for the task. You could barely get away with the Tony Hawk soundtracks on that console.
Calling FMVs a 90s fad as a way to hand-wave away the limitations of cartridge storage circa 1996 doesn't rewrite history. CD-Roms offered some crazy perks.
The N64 just wasn't really up for the task. You could barely get away with the Tony Hawk soundtracks on that console.
Calling FMVs a 90s fad as a way to hand-wave away the limitations of cartridge storage circa 1996 doesn't rewrite history. CD-Roms offered some crazy perks.
I still have that issue. I had wanted a 3d Mario since the 8-bit era (I was picturing sprite-based 3d back then, though) so this looked like a dream come true. The game didn't disappoint.I bought the N64 at launch just because of Mario 64. I really didn't even consider the future titles.
I poured over every Spaceworld/NoJ press event with pre-release info but I think the Gamefan review of the import N64 really cemented how badly I wanted the game for me.
Its the reason I bought a playstation and picked up an N64 way down the line. Back then no RPG's was a no buy for me.
There was a HUGE bias against 2D games in the US during that generation, especially bad on the 64. All the games you mentioned use a prerendered sprites to attempt to look more "3D," truly pixel art sprite based games on the 64 are incredibly rare.
Had the N64 been more popular in Japan we probably would have seen a few and they may have came over, but I don't think it would have helped the system very much without a CD drive. The PS1 and Saturn were just a way better fit for where that genre was going, and it was obvious even before the N64 came out this was the case.
I remember at some point (before it came out) just assuming we'd get some great N64 RPG's because the SNES just had so many.
I was all "they'll be like that, only bigger and better!"
boy was I wrong.
It's extra weird because as such a huge fan of the genre back then I never did get a playstation or Saturn. I guess that was mainly due to being a kid and having to sort of "pick" one. The good part is these days there's still a huge list of games for me to visit!
I was all "they'll be like that, only bigger and better!"
boy was I wrong.
It's extra weird because as such a huge fan of the genre back then I never did get a playstation or Saturn. I guess that was mainly due to being a kid and having to sort of "pick" one. The good part is these days there's still a huge list of games for me to visit!
I was super excited for this one on the n64.
Aidyn Chronicles: The First Mage - Wikipedia
Read all about it in magazines and the early internet. Luckily I got to rent it before I bought. It was complete garbage.
Aidyn Chronicles: The First Mage - Wikipedia
Read all about it in magazines and the early internet. Luckily I got to rent it before I bought. It was complete garbage.
Sony actually blocked the release of several sprite based 2D titles for US release (including things like Gradius Gaiden and all of the Konami shmup compilations) because they wanted to focus on 3D titles. Arika tried to even port CAVE shmups early in the PS3 life IIRC and Sony blocked them because they didn't see value in 2D stuff on the platform.
Not really, Yamauchi accountants are still counting the money Pokemon generated.
I think it's easy to say that JRPGs instantly transitioned to FMV and CD filling audio etc but, equally, the PlayStation and Saturn were still knocking out JRPGs that looked essentially like this and there's no reason the N64 couldn't have squeezed something the scope of previous cartridge based JRPGs (like FF6 or DQV) onto a cartridge... We didn't need FF8 FMV cutscenes or CGI backgrounds with CD audio...
i think the issue might have been that those kinds of RPGs (ie stuff without the budget of a FF7)might have been seen as still fairly niche and the cost and production risks of putting them on cartridge might have been seen as too risky and prohibitive. Especially when Sony is sitting there with a more popular console, a cheaper format and much more favorable licensing costs. Why bother? I think it's probably the same reason we didn't see a lot of fighting games on the n64. The genre was going through sort of a transition at the time and a company like Capcom probably didn't want to have to deal with the potential risk of sitting on a few hundred thousand unsold MvC or SF3 carts.
I applied to become a video game tester for that game as the developer was in my city. I didn't get the job so I was spared an awful fate.
i think the issue is that this removes one of the other major reasons third parties dipped out on Nintendo as soon as a viable alternative in Sony arrived: Sony was offering much better licensing agreements while Nintendo still treated third party partners with a fairly draconian "our way or the high way" philosophy. I think that exodus of major publishers to Sony would have happened regardless.
Panzer Dragoon Saga on the Saturn was full 3D. That was in 1998. The tech wasn't really there to do it well - there are many RPGs with a mix of 2D and 3D that look better from that era.
Yeah it and Mega Man Legends were weirdly 3D Zelda games before a 3D Zelda came out.
I didn't know Panzer Dragoon was an RPG. I've never played it beyond Saturn kiosks of what I believe was the first PD, and that was a rail shooter right?
i think a remaster of it with some QoL tweaks would be pretty huge in today's gaming climate.
I think it's easy to say that JRPGs instantly transitioned to FMV and CD filling audio etc but, equally, the PlayStation and Saturn were still knocking out JRPGs that looked essentially like this and there's no reason the N64 couldn't have squeezed something the scope of previous cartridge based JRPGs (like FF6 or DQV) onto a cartridge... We didn't need FF8 FMV cutscenes or CGI backgrounds with CD audio...
They did this with Wonder Project J 2 at least.
All this time and no mention of:
Harvest Moon 64
Still one of my all time favorite Harvest Moons and one of my favorite games on the 64.
Sure, it's incredibly limited compared to the infinite, sprawling HMs today, but it still is a perfect sequel to the SNES game.
It's perfectly contained, and you can actually finish it, instead of playing into oblivion.
In middle school, almost everyone had a 64. I think I knew 3 kids with a PS, and the graphics always looked a little warped or something.
Smash Bros., wrestling games, Mario Kart, GoldenEye plus pizza, Mountain Dew, and Doritos were all we needed back then.
We will never see local multiplayer like that again, sadly.
Harvest Moon 64
Still one of my all time favorite Harvest Moons and one of my favorite games on the 64.
Sure, it's incredibly limited compared to the infinite, sprawling HMs today, but it still is a perfect sequel to the SNES game.
It's perfectly contained, and you can actually finish it, instead of playing into oblivion.
In middle school, almost everyone had a 64. I think I knew 3 kids with a PS, and the graphics always looked a little warped or something.
Smash Bros., wrestling games, Mario Kart, GoldenEye plus pizza, Mountain Dew, and Doritos were all we needed back then.
We will never see local multiplayer like that again, sadly.
I mean, NEC also did this a gen earlier. The issue was cart costs but if Nintendo had offered even a somewhat affordable option (even if more expensive and with less storage) I think they'd have retained a ton of support and maybe even primary support. It's not like Sony was the first real alternative and everyone just jumped as soon as they could.
I think Twinsen's Odyssey on PC was a better "pre-Ocarina" than Mystical Ninja in many ways even though the camera was kind of a mix of rotatable and static.
Yes, Saga is an RPG and every other game in the series is a rail shooter. Saga is a pretty good game but it's crazy expensive for used copies now and there are no ports. Really could use a remake.