-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
It Belongs in a Museum (LOL): New Labour Leader Keir Starmer Decries "Lawlessness" Over Forcefully Removed Racist Statue.
- Thread starter excelsiorlef
- Start date
Governments should take the initiative and remove public memorials of historical figures with ideals that no longer fit in society.
If you think it belongs in a museum, put it in a museum, because this shit no longer stands unqualified.
If you think it belongs in a museum, put it in a museum, because this shit no longer stands unqualified.
Starmer isn't government and that is exactly what he was arguing for.
I can't imagine any good reason for a slave trafficker to be a celebrated figure, let alone given a statue, no matter how generous he was with the blood money.
Ever been to the Holocaust memorial in Berlin? It's fucking harrowing and certainly nothing that we would ever say could represent anything good and kind in life. Statues like this should be put somewhere with the truth of what that person did laid bare and unfiltered - if it's a museum dedicated to showing people who were real shits that we can't ever let come to pass again I'd be fine with it. Just not on the streets, not celebrated and not given pride of place.David thinks the statue should be placed in a Museum, a place where history is taught.
David Olusoga defends pulling down of Colston statue
"Statues are not the mechanisms by which we understand history"www.bristolpost.co.uk
The fact that statues are used as a symbol of adoration is a historical/social/cultural discussion In its own right and is relevant to how we view history and how society viewed these people over time.
This might be the worst take I've ever seen on this forum.
You REALLY sure you want to talk about British Museums at a time we are calling out systematic racism?
I don't even know what this means or who it's directed at.
Bravo.
I actually think it would be pretty cool if they grabbed the statue from the sea and put it in a museum along with a description of what happened and how it was took down. Or leave it there and tell the story with pictures.
Either way, history was made and it's awesome
Either way, history was made and it's awesome
As some have mentioned, Bristol's MShed museum has a section on the city's role in the slave trade, seems like as good a place as any to put a symbol of modern Bristol's rejection of its glorification.
Human rights law professional in unprecedented "yes, quite fond of that whole adhering to the law stuff" shocker.
The tedium of the last few months desperately scrabbling for their "GOTCHA!" moment has been exhausting.
It is exhausting to actually get elected into government and enact policy change and it is why politics is best left to those with an ability and talent for it. Starmer clearly has it and is the first actual contender in a leadership election since 2007. Recognise opportunity.
What would Era prefer?
Identify, locate and punish everyone who pulled the statue down but leave it in the river?
Take no action against the protesters but ultimately stick the statue in a museum?
Identify, locate and punish everyone who pulled the statue down but leave it in the river?
Take no action against the protesters but ultimately stick the statue in a museum?
No I havn't. I have been to Sachsenhausen just outside Berlin though and that really put into perspective the horrors of concentration camps. I don't remember this, but my dad took me around a concentration camp in another part of Germany when I was young and apparently it really shook me up to the point of tears. I couldn't understand how people could treat people in such ways. Museums and memorial spaces can have real transformative effect on people. I shall put your recommendation down for my next trip to Berlin. Thanks.
I would say that there are museums around that are just homages to the past or even collections of the wealthy, I can see why some people would see a statue being housed in a museum a further extension of adoration but over the last 20 years there has been a real push to not wash over people cultures. More money is being put into museums curated by people of colour or grants given to people at a local level. Something that were once archaic spaces are now contemporary and have real thought and care put into them. They have pushed forward what museums should be about; education, a space to reflect a make you think. One you been to a good museum it really opens your eyes to the world.
It actually has historical value now. Dreg its crumpled remains up and stick it somewhere with a plaque telling how and why it ended up at the bottom of the river.
oh and twats; all the status quo'ers...
oh and twats; all the status quo'ers...
I think in the case of the Confederate stuff here in the states there's a good case for it being a part of an exhibit on slavery and or civil rights that adequately calls out the context it was removed from - recent false reframing of history - but then you're still giving up floor space to a bigot - and I'm not sure how many statues of Hitler you'd want in holocaust museums. I do think that we need to shine a spotlight on these continued revisionist attempts to hagify monsters. Even Reagan has been somewhat successfully remarketed (at great expense and effort) as either a handsome charismatic orator or a vague cold war victor.
It's real. From what I recall of my school trip to the HoP (we were forbidden from touching the seats in the House of Lords lmao) there are statues of Maggie, Churchill and... two others I can't remember, and the MPs rub the foot of their favourite one for luck before going into the Commons. The coating on Churchill's foot was completely gone. Gross.
Yeah, and I'm sure Starmer or anyone else in Labor were gonna take this slaver worshipping statue down "the right way" some time this century, if we'd just been patient. Progressives who care more about following proper procedures than affecting social change are useless. It will never be convenient to change the things that need to be changed.
Starmer has only been an MP since 2015, he hasn't had any power to do anything, i agree with the people who just got on with it, but i doubt Starmer would be an obstacle given the chance to do anything.
Yeah I was told that too when I was taken round for work.
I mentioned before but the fact the house of Lords section is covered in gold everywhere was also pretty damn disgusting.
Protesters released a statement saying that the statue tripped and fell. Also, he was no angel.
OP
OP
OP
OP
No you can't, they're junk statues made by junk people with zero value. Blow them up. Film that, put that in a museum.
The hundreds of crap statues and monuments The United Daughters of the Confederacy commissioned need to be reduced to rubble and never seen again.
I mentioned labor in addition to Starmer, specifically because he's a relatively new face. I did some more reading, and it turns out that at least one labor MP (who happens to be the current Brexit shadow minister), did write a letter in 2018 calling for the statue to be removed. The mayor of Bristol, also from labor, tried and failed to add a plaque to the statue describing Colston as a slave trader.
So I guess I take it back. Labor really was trying their hardest to address the situation, and the protestors should have waited.
For what it's worth, the slave trade and Britain's role in it was a compulsory part of my secondary school history curriculum when I was still in school. At the very least, it was taught to us during one of the years when history was mandatory: at year 10 (about age 15) you pick a selection of subjects to carry on with for GCSE.
Not a defence of the quality of our education on the matter mind you (personally ours was fairly uncompromising, taught to us by someone with no love for Britain's colonial history), but the framework is there.
What year was that as i don't ever remember getting taught it (07-09).
People were trying to get this particular statue taken down for nearly 25 years through legal means and the council didn't do shit. Let that statue stay in the water or get it out, melt it down, sell the bronze and give it to BLMUK. There are so many statues of slave traders in the U.K. they all need to be taken down asap as far as I'm concerned. ✊🏿
Great Video about this statue/others like it and some British history. Only 5 mins.
www.youtube.com
Great Video about this statue/others like it and some British history. Only 5 mins.
Pull Down Racist Statues
Statues like that of Edward Colston don’t teach us about Britain’s past.They stand in the way. Subscribe to Novara Media on YouTube ⇛ http://novara.media/you...
www.youtube.com
Last edited:
I seem to remember it being in year 8 or 9, so probably around 04? It might not have been compulsory across England, which would make it all the more surprising that my school in a very conservative area made it mandatory. Perhaps the influence of our head of history, who was about 80 years old but would have personally torn down that statue with his bare hands if he could lol. He was a great guy.
So I guess the answer is "Have more teachers like him".
The history of the statue itself, for those who didn't catch it on the other thread:
Myths within myths... - Bristol Radical History Group
In the light of recent moves to place a ‘corrective’ plaque on the statue of Edward Colston in the centre of Bristol and calls for it to be removed to a museum it seems the time is right to investigate the origins of this monument and the claim emblazoned on it that it was: Erected […]
www.brh.org.uk
Nah they didn't have to wait and I seriously doubt Starmer's really concerned they pulled it down. People just need to realise expecting him to answer in any other way than he did are either being delusional or wildly nieve. He's fresh leader, he's faced with a shitty goverment with a huge majority and he needs to at minimum gain momentum for his party and recover lost ground. Saying anything other than he did in an interview would have been a mistake. He's looking solid and credible next to the buffonery of Boris and it's far to early in what's going to be a long race to hand easy points to the opposition; who'd jump all over anything that made it look like he's for unlawful behaviour and of course it would get amplified given his background in law.
I really don't think it's hard to read between the lines of his response to note he's for the thing being gone. He just can't look like he's advocating for statues all over UK being pulled down.
Besides, right now guestures like this speak volumes. Going forward of course this should switch to planned removal and disposal of similar offending statues: the symbolism of throwing it in the water was great but it can't stay there, as a species we've fucked up the environment enough and littering it with statues of slavers is a bit much; melt them down or whatever allows the materials to be reused or chop them up and dispose of them safely.
Most of them have no real worth and are just commissioned works, they're not Picasso's and apart from maybe keeping a few for a musuem section on history of slave trading there's no need to keep them around at all.
Sorry to tell you - and others - this, but Gove got rid of it as a compulsory part of the curriculum in 2013. It can be studied but it is non-statutory.
The only statutory part anymore is the Holocaust - you have to teach certain periods but it is up to the school to decide what to teach in those periods.
Thankfully my school has kept it there and goes on to examine the Civil Rights movement in the US but no school has to.
History KS3 curriculum:
https://assets.publishing.service.g...5/SECONDARY_national_curriculum_-_History.pdf
Thanks for the insight. Whilst I took history up until my GCSEs in around 2004, literally all I can remember is having the Schlieffen Plan and the Night of Long Knives drilled into us
Still a lot like that in schools. Odd how our students come out knowing more about the Nazi political system and how decisions were made/not made by Hitler than they do about our own government's way of making decisions, isn't it?
placing it into a museum with context of who the dude was and what he did seems like a better avenue than destruction. History is full of statues of bad people, most who've done 1000 times worse, but where do we draw the line? Context matters and using it to educate vs as a symbol as something we should be proud of seems ok to me.
Even educating museum visitors as to why the status was created, not just who the person was is helping in understanding history. For a long time people worshipped and idolized these people (and still do), and that's important for future generations to know. it takes generations for ideas to really change
Even educating museum visitors as to why the status was created, not just who the person was is helping in understanding history. For a long time people worshipped and idolized these people (and still do), and that's important for future generations to know. it takes generations for ideas to really change
The amount of pictures available online right now of that statue, and the scenes that took place during and after it fell down are as effective at educating history than the slab of bronze itself. No, actually, they're more effective than the statue itself has ever been.
I actually think the statue is interesting historically: the fact that businessmen felt the need to lobby for a statue of Colston to be erected 170 years after his death says a lot about Bristol's relationship with its slave trading past. And now that it has been pulled down it becomes extra interesting as it shows how that relationship has (potentially) changed.
As for the celebratory nature of statues, I think that predominantly comes from their position in public space - put in an area of daily life it serves a propagandist function, because just seeing it around encourages you to not think too critically about it. I definitely don't think it's inherently celebratory to put a statue in a museum. Having the statue as part of an exhibit where you first see the reality of how Colston made his money, for example, primes you to go 'how could anyone possibly have celebrated this man's legacy?' rather than 'what a truly virtuous man of the city' - doing something like this encourages people to examine some of the cultural legacy that slavery left after abolition, which I think can be a pretty important educational tool.
As for the celebratory nature of statues, I think that predominantly comes from their position in public space - put in an area of daily life it serves a propagandist function, because just seeing it around encourages you to not think too critically about it. I definitely don't think it's inherently celebratory to put a statue in a museum. Having the statue as part of an exhibit where you first see the reality of how Colston made his money, for example, primes you to go 'how could anyone possibly have celebrated this man's legacy?' rather than 'what a truly virtuous man of the city' - doing something like this encourages people to examine some of the cultural legacy that slavery left after abolition, which I think can be a pretty important educational tool.