• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Paquete_PT

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
5,333
This is an absolutely insane hypothesis.
Op, you should get Dreams for PS4 and start there, it's your best bet at having a community project that's playable and could be what you're looking for
 

makonero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,666
op, just go look in the freeware threads here

www.resetera.com

Freeware Gaming: Preserved For Your Enjoyment

In the wake of the various threads about copyright and piracy, I was reminded of the many commercial games that have become free in the last decade & change, as well as eternally freeware games that I think everyone should experience. Here are some games that I think people should play, for the...
www.resetera.com

let's post freeware games

I'll start. You want an open source, actively developed, freeware version of multiplayer C&C 1, C&C Red Alert 1, and Dune 2000? Say no more: OpenRA: http://www.openra.net/

i will recommend save the date and digital: a love story as my favorite freeware games

Save the Date

 

Sarcastico

Member
Oct 27, 2017
774
You want AAA calibre games for free? That means thousands of hours of coding, art and animation design, voice acting and writing, and have it done in some people's free time.

How can you even think that's within the realm of possibility?
 

arcadepc

Banned
Dec 28, 2019
1,925
There are already plenty of great freeware games. Do you mean something of a bigger scale, excluding mmo and online games?

Not all open source software are done by people on their free time.
Eg Canonical, the company behind Ubuntu is worth hundreds of millions of usd
Even Libreoffice Board of directors consist(ed) of AMD, Google, Redhat SUSE etc plus it had government backing.

A similar open source game of the scale and quality you mention would require similar backinh for support but I doubt the revenue would be as great to justify such a risky venture and with so many people into the mix I doubt it would be as creative
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
I think the problem is so much game development relies on proprietary game engines and middleware that at this time open source development isn't likely to take off. The only major open source game engine I'm aware of is Renpy and that's mainly for visual novels.

Edit: I definitely think it'd be great if someone made a big open source game with the bazaar model of development, but someone's gotta make the tools to do it.

A lot of modern FOSS was made using tools from the GNU project, and that's been going since the early 80s. I can't imagine how long it'd take to make a game engine. I'm sure it's possible. If a college student and some random people on the internet can turn the Linux kernel into the most installed software in the world then I'm sure someone could start a game engine or middleware and get it to be the go to for a lot of developers once it picks up steam.

For now though I think we'll be stuck with community projects like mods and fan remakes unfortunately. Devs have certainly been more embracing of feedback recently thanks to digital distribution and early access coupled with cheaper and easier to learn game engines like Unity.
 
Last edited:

machinaea

Game Producer
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
221
I think the problem is so much game development relies on proprietary game engines and middleware that at this time open source development isn't likely to take off. The only major open source game engine I'm aware of is Renpy and that's mainly for visual novels.
There's plenty of decent beginning of tools and a fairly promising dev suite of https://godotengine.org/ but no that's not really the problem in my opinion and experience. Despite a million attempts at homebrew game engines from enthusiasts, it's at least telling that the only impactful results come from an entire decades of work from immensely well resourced companies filled with great talent to even produce decent engines (which we all hate regardless). There's also nothing really stopping anyone from making an open source project based on Unity or Unreal, just make a project and a public repository.

As for the OP, it's filled with bad takes (but I don't blame you and I think at lot of it comes from a good place even if naive), but lemme tackle a few:

There are very active communities in the development of free and open source software in the most diverse areas. From office suites to scientific applications. Now, in terms of big game projects, I don't see organization and dedication on the same level. At the level of producing games we call AAA.
The creative part of making games puts a big, big challenge on it, and then when you combine it with the fact that game productions at the level we call AAA range from 20-200 millions of dollars worth of working hours, it's not really a wonder. Most people who are in for that kind of dedication and time required (and the necessary skills), would rather make a company and set out on their own while actually trying to make a living. In fact, having been part of startups I don't see a lot of people who would have that kind of time available and be able to put it in without the compensation, but instead they go and ahead and make their own companies. However, requires often raising money so you will always be dealing with some factors out of your immediate control.

When we observe large communities of discussion about games, such as ResetERA, Reddit and others, the number of people who express their understanding of design, music, art and technology is huge. Any technical problem, be it in terms of frames, resolution and physics is quickly pointed out. Any level design or game pacing problem is also underlined at maximum speed. And developers are often accused of negligence or incompetence for these mistakes. How often do modders not solve problems that are left by developers?
I must be very clear on this, there's a huge difference between observing the end result and the journey there. Games don't ship when they are ready, games ship when you run out of time and money. Everyone in the development team is always painfully aware of what could be better, but the constraints put on the vast majority of projects are immense.

Secondly, while there are absolutely great people at analyzing results (shoutout to Mark Brown of Game Maker's Toolkit), that has a very little to do with what it takes to get there. Just because you can say something doesn't work out well after 5 years of work to get things running, that doesn't mean you know how to make a great game from nothing.

And I'm not saying the teams always get the talent they need either, because they rarely do or mistakes aren't made all the time. There's a shortage of experience people in the industry, so many games have open positions until the day the ship, because the companies just can't fill the roles, so someone with not necessarily the most skills for the job has to still do things to ship the game.
 

FoolsMilky

Member
Sep 16, 2018
485
It's much harder to make a PC game than it is to make most software. Needing to account for so many different systems and variables alone since games are much more intimate with the hardware inside the PC alone makes it rough.

It's much harder to make a PC game than it is to mod something already created.

Consumers tend to vastly underestimate how difficult it is to create games and just like to complain that people are lazy or incompetent all the time. When it comes to a group effort you have to make sure everyone is on the same page, people are staying motivated, people work together well, people can agree to work on something even if they don't agree with it without just leaving, etc.

While not necessarily "open source" I did use to be big in the RPG Maker community back in the day (like back in the early 2000s when Don Miguel pirated and brought the engines over to the west and Gaming World was a thing and all that) and basically here's what happens:

* Most projects are completely devoid of creativity, many are just fan games. (I can safely say I would legit only ever recommend 2: Legion Saga is a solid trilogy that is a spiritual successor take on Suikoden (even supports transferring saves and having your choices matter), and Final Fantasy Endless Nova is legit the only vaguely decent FF game that ever happened).

* Most games are never finished, they either die due to lack of impetus to be finished or the team working on them falls apart due to communication/attitude issues. I wanna say the former isn't even the fault of lack of pay most of the time, but rather that people like to get excited and show people their stuff way too early and that actually ruins most people's desire to work on stuff.

* Most of the games that do come out aren't good.

And that's with an engine already made for people and the need to code severely reduced if that's the genre of game you want to make and 2D sprite based.

What you're asking is like, infinitely harder than that.
As someone who is making a game (almost) by themselves, it was admittedly comforting to read your post. I struggle a lot with motivation and nailing down creative decisions, and my game isn't even that complicated.

I hope that I'm able to even finish my game and that it turns out well, and just as you said, I don't think people understand just how many decisions have to be made and just how much works needs to be done, and how much time is just spent fixing bugs, yada yada...

And I'm just one person. Things get even more difficult when you have more people and you need to collaborate, get things done on time so that other people can start working on their stuff, and how that can fall apart due to motivation, bad communication, unclear goals, etc.

---

To address OP's actual comments, it's really the old line about criticism. Usually goes "Always listen, sometimes follow". It basically means that ANYONE can criticize something. They can tell you food tastes bad, or that your game isn't fun, but they will rarely have the right answer (or any answer at all) on how to fix it. Design requires encountering problems and not really even getting the right answer, but HOW to get better and more interesting answers. It is creative work, and it is not clear, which is sometimes why people fall on tried-and-true answers for their games. That often results in "sameiness" and copycat kind of stuff with some creative flair injected in at parts. And even those projects take lots of time, lots of effort, and new territory.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
There's plenty of decent beginning of tools and a fairly promising dev suite of https://godotengine.org/ but no that's not really the problem in my opinion and experience. Despite a million attempts at homebrew game engines from enthusiasts, it's at least telling that the only impactful results come from an entire decades of work from immensely well resourced companies filled with great talent to even produce decent engines (which we all hate regardless). There's also nothing really stopping anyone from making an open source project based on Unity or Unreal, just make a project and a public repository.

It's good to know people are making tools, but like all game engines if no one makes anything worth paying attention to then no one is going to care. Cry Engine has Crysis, ID Tech had Quake, Unreal has a ton of games, etc. Linux didn't really take off until Apache came around, so I doubt an open source engine would take off unless someone used it to make something amazing.

To your latter point about how people can make a repository with an Unreal or Unity game I don't see the point for the user if they need to download a proprietary program in order to compile it into a binary.
 

Silver-Streak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,008
I think the problem is so much game development relies on proprietary game engines and middleware that at this time open source development isn't likely to take off. The only major open source game engine I'm aware of is Renpy and that's mainly for visual novels.

Nowadays, there are actually more open source game engines and middleware viable systems then there are closed source/for cash engines. Some examples:

 

Carn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,921
The Netherlands
And developers are often accused of negligence or incompetence for these mistakes. How often do modders not solve problems that are left by developers?

Well, I think I can say with quite a high degree of confidence that the developers are very aware of the issues that are present when the game ships. Games would probably never release if there wasn't a deadline.
 

KDR_11k

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
5,235
As someone who has been a bit involved with SpringRTS (opensource Total Annihilation like engine) in the past I think it's just that the opensource model is not really suited for game development.
Opensource usually starts with "there's no free software available to do X" which is a very clear goal for a project. You need to be able to attract more and more developers just on the merits of your goal and you'll probably have a very slow and iterative development cycle which means the project has to be pretty much timeless. Games have a short lifetime, unlike productivity software which exists to help you reach other goals a game can only help you reach the goals it includes. Even without the constant threat of quickly outdated tech you still have people losing interest because they've played enough of the game.

Obviously a FOSS game has to be developed in the open and continuously, no holding it back until certain parts are finished or releasing it and being done, the point of FOSS is that anybody can improve it and that means that you want something that is continuously available and gets continuous improvements. Not many game styles can cope with that, anything story-driven would fall apart from that approach.

Clones at least have the advantage of coming with a complete vision and project goal, everybody knows what the result is supposed to be like and can thus determine what needs doing. With an original game nobody knows what the result should be like and whether they'd like that result or what they'd need to do to get it there.

SpringRTS had some advantage because it's mainly an engine that should run something TA-like. That's a decently clear goal and a decently flexible purpose. It's not a game by itself but relies on people making game packages for it. The actual games were mostly made by much smaller teams or even individuals. But really, game engines are probably the closest to a game you can reliably get with FOSS because engines are more versatile. That's not saying there are no original FOSS games but they're few compared to the sheer number of indie games.

A productivity tool like, say, Blender also has the advantage that it gets used by bigger companies who can invest resources into helping its development.
 

Deleted member 61326

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 12, 2019
614
Is Tux Racer still used as proof that open source can produce games just as well as evil proprietary companies?