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SecondNature

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,158
The show was hyped and thought to be something really smart and sophisticated but then in like season 2 those goofy ass lab geeks are so bad that fans say "relax, theyre acting to fool Mave!"

But everything was real and Mave does a bunch of nonsense that turned me off from the show.
 

Tbm24

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,315
The show was hyped and thought to be something really smart and sophisticated but then in like season 2 those goofy ass lab geeks are so bad that fans say "relax, theyre acting to fool Mave!"

But everything was real and Mave does a bunch of nonsense that turned me off from the show.
The show was carried by initially just by it's acting imo. It was top notch stuff and the intrigue was high. For me, this never changed from Season 1-3. I'm here until the end.
 

Erigu

Member
Nov 4, 2017
2,936
there absolutely is a segment of the audience (the Cinemasins-esque sect) who has completely lost/forgotten/never had the ability to consume media in a normal fashion, instead hell-bent on beating or solving a movie or TV show like internet sleuths, approaching a movie or TV show like a mathematical equation or cold case just begging to be solved. They did this on Westworld S1, sussing out a number of the big reveals weeks ahead. For the record, I find this to be an absolutely insane way to view media.
... Even works that rely heavily on mysteries? That's certainly a take.


They did this same shit with LOST.
Well, yeah. Funny how poorly written works get criticized.
 

infinitebento

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,834
chicago
S2 was really hard for me to finish.

I lost interest half way through but stayed the course for S3 which ended only ever so slightly above S2.
 
Nov 1, 2017
3,070
Other than one or two cartoon characters and minor point threads not leading to anything, season 1 was absolutely incredible. I still think it's worth checking it out alone.
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,322
Canada
Other than one or two cartoon characters and minor point threads not leading to anything, season 1 was absolutely incredible. I still think it's worth checking it out alone.

Definitely agreed on that.

I honestly think, besides some Electric Boogaloo-ing and slow progress, S2 does have some cool story beats (the stuff with James Delos was dark, and Akecheta works even as a great standalone episode).

S3 is definitely not as strong, but I liked the ride and the characters enough.
 
Nov 1, 2017
3,070
Definitely agreed on that.

I honestly think, besides some Electric Boogaloo-ing and slow progress, S2 does have some cool story beats (the stuff with James Delos was dark, and Akecheta works even as a great standalone episode).

S3 is definitely not as strong, but I liked the ride and the characters enough.
It's an odd recommendation from me too. Usually, I recommend shows on an all or nothing basis. For example, it's difficult for me to enjoy the first four seasons of Game of Thrones, regardless of their quality, as there's simply too many plot threads remaining by the end of season 4 (some of which are not even answered in the later seasons). I can't watch it knowing how the show concludes.

In contrast, I feel Westworld season 1 ends on a satisfying point. It feels self-contained and, while there are allusions to where the story is going, you don't really need to continue watching.
 
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ABIC

Banned
Nov 19, 2017
1,170
The show was hyped and thought to be something really smart and sophisticated but then in like season 2 those goofy ass lab geeks are so bad that fans say "relax, theyre acting to fool Mave!"

But everything was real and Mave does a bunch of nonsense that turned me off from the show.

Yeah, I think there was a sentiment during S1 that if you didn't like Maeve, you didn't appreciate the finer points and/or you just didn't like strong women. It was the single worst arc in season 1 and had the worst writing. I just lost all interest in Maeve. I was still invested in Dolores, but season 2 changed that and the whole thing is bad.
 

Uhtred

Alt Account
Banned
May 4, 2020
1,340
Is Season 3 really that bad? As in worse than Season 2? I liked Season 1 well enough, but Season 2 was a snooze fest for me. Still, I was thinking of re-subbing for Season 3.
 

Deleted member 34725

User-requested account closure
Banned
Nov 28, 2017
1,058
Season 1 did a decent job setting things up for what could've been an incredible Season 2. Season 2 turned into a meh B movie that took itself way too seriously. I was intrigued by the Season 3 trailers, but haven't bother watching given its' reception. It's such a cool concept for a show but the writing... ugh.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,970
Is Season 3 really that bad? As in worse than Season 2? I liked Season 1 well enough, but Season 2 was a snooze fest for me. Still, I was thinking of re-subbing for Season 3.
I personally don't think it's "that bad" but if you hated season 2, 3 probably won't bring you back. They did react to the season 2 backlash tho and made it easier to follow so there's that.
 

roflwaffles

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,138
Is S3 worth watching if I hated S2? I thought S1 was peak TV and they dropped the ball too hard with S2.
 

TTG

Banned
Apr 16, 2019
1,631
I put more blame on Nolan for this. Don't get me wrong - there absolutely is a segment of the audience (the Cinemasins-esque sect) who has completely lost/forgotten/never had the ability to consume media in a normal fashion, instead hell-bent on beating or solving a movie or TV show like internet sleuths, approaching a movie or TV show like a mathematical equation or cold case just begging to be solved. They did this on Westworld S1, sussing out a number of the big reveals weeks ahead. For the record, I find this to be an absolutely insane way to view media.

BUT, even if you think Cinemasins and Reddit are the pond scum of consuming media, which I do, I blame Jonathan Nolan even more for being so damn insecure/egotistical/arrogant that he not only read this stuff, but that he apparently decided to structure the entire second season around trying to outsmart internet sleuths. That is even crazier to me.

GoT and Watchmen did the same thing. You try to generate internet buzz/speculation/conversation first and foremost and build the rest of your show around that. You're coming off harsh, but it's not my favorite formula either and it was definitely to Westworld's detriment.

As far as season 3 goes, I don't know if that even cracks the top 3 list. I'm surprised it got renewed to be honest.
 

Nemesis121

Member
Nov 3, 2017
13,844
Person of Interest - maybe I need to watch more, but I watched 3/4 of season 1 a while back and I just seemed like a standard bad network show were they crowbar a twist into every episode.
The first season is very procedural, S1 job was to build the characters, S2 beginning has some of the procedural settings, but once you hit episode 7, you will never drop this show, it's video crack, one of the best TV shows ever made..
 

Marshall

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,982
I really liked Season 1. Season 2 and on is kind of dreadful, but I'm still watching. Just like I keep watching The Walking Dead.

The Wire is similar. Season 1 was great, the rest were ho-hum.
 

Dabanton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,912
I really liked Season 1. Season 2 and on is kind of dreadful, but I'm still watching. Just like I keep watching The Walking Dead.

The Wire is similar. Season 1 was great, the rest were ho-hum.

Not going to do a dismissive post but you didn't think the other seasons of the Wire built on some truly great characters?

I see it as true longform TV that pays off. I have my issues with the last season but the other season are stellar TV.
 

Emmz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
404
Westworld kinda feels like modern day Lost to me.. had some cool moments though.

It's nowhere near as nonsensical as Lost. Westworld's plot makes sense, it's just executed in a way designed to make it harder to follow in the first two seasons. You're also constantly saying "that's fucking stupid, but I guess it's possible" after every single event that occurs. Lost is more like "ok, I guess we're in 1977 now because Ben turned a magic donkey wheel". The characters are way more flat, boring and unlikable, so it doesn't even achieve the emotional payoffs that Lost does. They're superficially similar if all you know or care about is the idea that things are "mysterious", but it starts and ends there.

Westworld's problems are more akin to something like Prison Break. It has a great initial premise for a strong first season of the show (essentially both shows are about a prison break). After that occurs, the scope of the show changes wildly, and telling that kind of larger, long-form plot after the initial great idea is much more difficult to do. Season 3 might as well be a completely different show as the events of season 1 have almost no bearing on what's happening anymore. You end up with the problem of characters who have nothing to do, and the show refuses to kill them off (like say Game of Thrones in its first few seasons) because of toothless writing. You have to watch these scenes with characters off on complete tangents and it's just fucking boring.
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,116
As far as I'm concerned, the main problem is that Nolan responded to the idiots who watched the first season the wrong way (by trying to "solve" or "beat" the show ahead of time) by then trying to create the following seasons the wrong way (in response to that fan behavior).

You thought S2 was bad (it absolutely was)? Well, S3 makes it look like great television.

sweet baby jesus, say it ain't so. This and Legion are some of the few shows where I've decided to sit out S3 after a complete S2 letdown - and I still haven't watched Legion S3 yet.

Was going to binge WW S3 after it finished airing, but if the season is that much of a letdown than I think I might skip it all and just pretend the series ended after S1.
 

Deleted member 21709

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
23,310
Is Season 3 really that bad? As in worse than Season 2? I liked Season 1 well enough, but Season 2 was a snooze fest for me. Still, I was thinking of re-subbing for Season 3.

Season 3 should have been good - amazing production design, but uninspired photography and an awful script. The overarching story is cool (even though it all feels like a setup for S4), but the execution is very lacking. I wonder if they had issues on set or were in a time crunch?

It kind of plays out like something that was filmed entirely on green screens, even though it definitely wasn't. But that's how uninspired and flat it comes across.
 

Mr_DyZ

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jun 12, 2019
776
I didn't mind Season 3 of WW, but after having seen all of it, i'm not sure I find it better than 2.

I went back and started watching season 1 again. The dialogue in the FIRST episode alone is so much better than anything we got in ALL of season 3.

More than anything, as season 3 progressed, I missed the whole park vibe that the first two seasons of WW gave off.
 

kc44135

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,721
Ohio
What was wrong with Season 2? I enjoyed it almost as much as Season 1. Season 3 was... Wierd. Idk, it wasn't bad, but it doesn't even really feel like the same show anymore, and I kinda thought the overarching plot was super cliche and kinda boring. The ending felt lackluster as well.
 

Nif

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,716
I'm surprised people didn't like S3. It's my favorite of the series. I thought they could have done more with Maeve and William, and the lack of an episode 9 and 10 made the season feel too compressed, but I loved the cyberpunk.
 

criesofthepast

Crash Test Dummy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,056
Alan Ball went from Six Feet Under to True Blood.

True Blood was kind of fun for the first couple of seasons tho....
Yeah this has always bummed me out bigtime. As a huge Six Feet Under fan who has it in top 3 or least top 5 all time cant tell you how disappointed I was with Alan Balls efforts after Six Feet Under.
 

Sumio Mondo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,930
United Kingdom
Shawn Ryan going from creating the best US crime show of all time (The Shield) next to The Wire, to then creating incredibly formulaic and forgettable cop shows...
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
I actually loved the hell out of Westworld season 1, perhaps even more than I already loved Person of Interest (which is to say a lot). It starts out slow but when it gets going, holy crap.

Westworld season 2 is disappointment distilled into TV form, though. As others have said, it's obvious that S1 was very meticulously planned and constructed, and part of that is that it feels like a perfectly complete story, not serve as the foundation for an ongoing show. I haven't seen S3 yet so I can't comment.

I think that people are forgetting some of the weakest parts of Person of Interest though. PoI is very well regarded because its first and last seasons are incredibly strong and some episodes are among the best in TV of all times, but some of its episodes around the middle part of the show, while never as bad as WWS2, were pretty mediocre as well. Did we really need to revisit HR yet again and try to prop them back up as a credible threat, when the series had long since moved on to far more powerful organizations? Did we really need Carter and Reese declaring their love for each other and kissing out of absolutely nowhere and with zero foreshadowing or telegraphing at any point in the series, just to try to make her death in the very same episode more emotional?
 

DirtyLarry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,112
I can say this about Season 03 of Westworld...

I am old school. I look forward to a good weekly show. Especially on Sunday nights. Historically (no thanks to HBO and well before GoT), Sunday nights has been my night for my TV shows.

With the exception of the first 2 episodes, I have attempted to watch every WW Season 03 episode live at 9PM, and I either wound up surfing my laptop or just plain falling asleep, and having to rewatch the episode sometime during the week.
It was no exception for the finale last night. I lost interest about 25 minutes in.
In fact I am posting this as I am attempting to rewatch it and Jessie from Breaking Bad is trying to do something cool while look constipated. For real I loved Aaron Paul as Jessie, but dude is not a very good actor at all in anything else I have seen him in.

I feel like it is damn near a completely different show from the one I enjoyed in Season 01. I mean, I know that it actually is in premise, but damn, the quality has taken such a hit since the first Season.

So I absolutely concur OP. Truly one of the biggest slumps I can recall in quite some time.
 

ThatPersonGuy

Member
Dec 30, 2018
195
Imo Season 1 dug Season 2's grave long before Reddit could. I think I noticed it in, like, the final three or four episodes while the William stuff was finally tying itself together, that the entire cast were either freed robots with a very screwy moral compass, chained robots with good intentions but little to no meaningful agency, or humans who are either douchy, irrelevant, or both. The only characters with agency tended to be characters who did awful things, so you're in a position where either you're watching a show full of assholes getting in each others ways or you're watching characters you enjoy accomplish absolutely nothing. Westworld Season 1 is a closed loop because it effectively removes all its jumping on attachment points.

The other big thing Season 2 fucks up is, uh... it's Jurassic Park with robots but we see very little of Jurassic Park with robots. Most of the action in Season 2 happens in the far reaches of the park where characters are either already in over their heads and ready for that or in the background where it's more like, robot apocalypse than crumbling theme park, and as a result a lot of that like, wonder and exploration gets thrown to the shits. They try to fix this by throwing in these new parks to explore but then that circles back into the pointlessness issue.
 

Hamchan

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,966
Person of Interest feels like the TV show equivalent of a JPRG where you have to watch 15 hours of a whole season before it starts getting into the real interesting things.
 

FunnyBunny19

alt account
Banned
Jan 3, 2019
462
Westworld's biggest problem is that three seasons in and Maeve is still whinging about her daughter.
 

Uhtred

Alt Account
Banned
May 4, 2020
1,340
I personally don't think it's "that bad" but if you hated season 2, 3 probably won't bring you back. They did react to the season 2 backlash tho and made it easier to follow so there's that.
Season 3 should have been good - amazing production design, but uninspired photography and an awful script. The overarching story is cool (even though it all feels like a setup for S4), but the execution is very lacking. I wonder if they had issues on set or were in a time crunch?

It kind of plays out like something that was filmed entirely on green screens, even though it definitely wasn't. But that's how uninspired and flat it comes across.
Don't resub just for season 3.

Thanks guys. Won't be re-subbing for it. Next time I do I'll give it a shot.
 

BobbyRawlins

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,477
havent watche the westworld finale yet, but of the other 7 episodes i feel like absolutely nothing has happened. some things have already happened and we learn about them, but thats not enough.
season 3 has been boring af.
 

CaptainK

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,889
Canada
I think its do with the shorter episode formats popularised by Netflix et al.

I am currently re-watching the Fantastic show - FRINGE

Longer series allow for better arcs and clarified motivations that was allowed in Person of Interest.

Yeah, I know it can get really procedural monster of the week, but in both above-mentioned shows, no episodes felt truly wasted and you got more world-building and character arcs.
I agree that Westworld season 3 needed more world-building, better motivations, and character development, but I don't think they would've accomplished that with more episodes. There was a whole season of opportunity to create Caleb's character, for example, but it basically all came out through flashbacks. And he shows very little personality or agency in the present story arc, despite all the screen time. The writing just wasn't there.
 

Lonestar

Roll Tahd, Pawl
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
3,560
A thing that I've thought about, is that Nolan's use of licensed music was just done better in POI than Westworld. Now, they've had alot of nice remixes of those songs in westworld/piano styles, but more often than not, they just seem to be there, almost like easter eggs. POI's use of Radiohead, Pink Floyd and David Bowie just fit in better when they pop up.
 

Gallows Bat

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
343
I really liked season 1 but stopped after 2 or 3 episodes. I'm not sure how they managed to make something so interesting so dull.
 
Oct 26, 2017
12,548
UK
So I very much enjoyed season 1 and 2.

I'm now 2 episodes into season 3.. and well I'm not sure I can be bothered to continue. Really haven't enjoyed either episode so far.