Is Unlimited PTO a Good Thing or Nah?

[EMBee99]

Today, my employer announced we are moving to a FTO model, basically meaning unlimited days for time off.

Studies have been done to show that this often benefits companies more than the workers since folks tend to forget to use PTO despite it seeming like a good thing from the jump.

What do y'all think? As a manager, I'm going to encourage my team uses it just as much as they have in the past, but I'm expecting some other folks to not be so mindful.

 

[Pankratous]

Unlimited annual leave is a thing?

Is there a minimum you need to attend work?

 

[m_shortpants]

I think it completely depends on your relationship with your management. If you are on good terms, have a good reputation, you can feel comfortable taking time off reasonably. But for most people I think it tends to cause them to take fewer days than normal.

Unlimited annual leave is a thing?

Is there a minimum you need to attend work?

Click to shrink...

Most companies want you to be reasonable, meaning not taking more than you would otherwise.

 

[Lumination]

I've had unlimited PTO for 7yrs now. It has to work with the culture. The studies people have linked here show that on average, people take less time off due to peer pressure. Our office truly encourages time off, and so it's fairly normal for me and my coworkers to take 15-30 days, depending on the year.

Addendum: even if the number of days doesn't change, I still consider it a plus because I no longer have to think about budgeting time. The equation becomes, "do I want to take time off? y/n"

 

[RedNalgene]

I have this because my boss doesn't care about/enforce days off. I take a regular amount of leave and don't abuse it because if I did I'd never get my job done. Plus I'm trusted to not abuse it, and that trust can't be won back if it's broken

 

[theme park joe]

I think it completely depends on your relationship with your management.

Click to shrink...

And corporate culture.

Unlimited PTO usually means "we'll give you shit if you take off". Most companies that have a set PTO they force you to take the days. So, yeah.

 

[Tathanen]

We have it, I've been with the company for eight years, I'm a VP now, I take like... three days a year. It definitely passively results in less PTO being taken, but it's also kinda reassuring mentally? WFH from Covid makes PTO feel weird too though. It's all weird.

 

[kyle mechlachlan]

It's a good thing in a vacuum. If your employer is a dick and creates a toxic environment that prevents people from feeling they can use it, then it's not as good.

 

[CaptainNuevo]

Unlimited annual leave is a thing?

Is there a minimum you need to attend work?

Click to shrink...

"Don't abuse it" is what my employers in that situation have always said.

IMO it's typically more beneficial for employers, since they get:

1) To advertise that to candidates.
2) Avoid having to pay out unused PTO when someone's employment ends (either via termination or them resigning).


It's also personally very difficult to get around the mental gate that I as an employee might be overusing it, and I constantly compare my use to my teammates'.

That said, just keep track of how much PTO you are/aren't using, and force yourself to use the same you would previously.

 

[Rewind]

I think it depends on your company culture. There are some places where it is frowned upon to actually use it, or people feel pressured to never take time off. That doesn't exist in a normal pto environment because it's much more explicit that you have time off. Just make sure to actually use the benefit and it can work well, if you sit on it and never take time off then yes it is bad.

 

[prophetvx]

Unlimited PTO is a good thing if the business mandates a minimum amount of time off. Without clear guidelines around what is a minimum and what is considered somewhat unacceptable (duration in blocks, dereliction of duties, performance) it can lead to either people burning out by not having confidence to ask for time off or people exploiting the system.

 

[sabertoothzombie]

we have it, but you still need to get permission for every day off, like officially submitted, so I don't see the point. We still get questioned if we get over 2 weeks a year, and we need VP approval if we try to go over three weeks a year. It's basically a way for them to not pay for unused PTO days

 

[subrock]

It works well at my company, but I think we have a pretty robust positive work culture. I would absolutely not want it if I had a meddling supervisor with poor management skills

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Wow, lots of people in this thread with barely any time off. My job has 39 days of annual leave, plus three days when they close just to give everyone a few long weekends.

 

[Septimus Prime]

It completely depends on company culture, but I personally prefer limited, since there's no stigma about using it.

We currently temporarily have "unlimited" sick leave (basically the Chief People Officer told us to not even put in sick time in the system if we get sick) during the pandemic, which is reassuring, and I don't think anyone has abused it.

 

[CaptainNuevo]

we have it, but you still need to get permission for every day off, like officially submitted, so I don't see the point. We still get questioned if we get over 2 weeks a year, and we need VP approval if we try to go over three weeks a year. It's basically a way for them to not pay for unused PTO days

Click to shrink...

Wait you get yelled at for using more than 10 days? And need explicit permission beyong 15? Damn. That makes all my previous employers seem like saints.

 

[davepoobond]

In general it's a scam.

they don't have to pay you out any accrual when you leave

If you take a lot of time off it would be like "why do they need someone in your job" if you are barely there. So you are basically not taking any

 

[tobascodagama]

I think it completely depends on your relationship with your management.

Click to shrink...

Correct. "Unlimited" actually means "as much as your manager will approve". My company has had unlimited PTO, and it's worked out fine for me because my manager is a reasonable guy I'm on good terms with. I don't take a lot of PTO, but I do tend to take big chunks of it at a time and sometimes take PTO on relatively short notice. He's always approved it for me.

But I could easily imagine having an asshole boss who pushes back on my PTO requests, and in that circumstance I would much prefer to have contractual PTO (which is usually subject to manager approval as well, but letting it accrue creates a liability to employers because they have to pay it out when they terminate you).

 

[RussTC3]

I wish I had PTO. As it stands now, I get 3 weeks paid vacation, but they can't be taken together (i.e., can only take 1 week at a time). Occasionally I'm able to find coverage to grab an extra day or two within my week, but I would love it if we actually had the ability to take PTO. A couple extra days a month would do wonders.

 

[Charcoal]

I think it completely depends on your relationship with your management. If you are on good terms, have a good reputation, you can feel comfortable taking time off reasonably. But for most people I think it tends to cause them to take fewer days than normal.

Click to shrink...

This x 1000000

It can be a great thing...if you're able to utilize it.

 

[RoadDogg]

If I didn't have a set number of days that I had to use or lose I would probably take less time off. Everyone always puts it off for later in the year to get their work done and then ends up taking most of December off. Unlimited sick days is another thing. I never understood places that only gave you x sick days off.

 

[admiraltaftbar]

When a previous company I worked for transitioned to it I treated it as basically being however much I had previously. However, say I have a big vacation planned and I get sick and it eats a day or two or three that I needed for my vacation well that's fine because that is where not having a set number of days come in and I really shouldn't have to change my plans because of unforseen occurrences. When I moved to another job that had unlimited I basically set a "I feel like I will take around this many days" expectation up front. In both cases I found my managers respect that as long as it is communicated to them ahead of time when I'll be taking off but obviously not every company/manager is like that.

Also a lot of jobs I've worked had a cap on rollover and payout or even no roll over for PTO days so it's never been a huge negative to not have any of that with unlimited.

 

[Septimus Prime]

Correct. "Unlimited" actually means "as much as your manager will approve". My company has had unlimited PTO, and it's worked out fine for me because my manager is a reasonable guy I'm on good terms with. I don't take a lot of PTO, but I do tend to take big chunks of it at a time and sometimes take PTO on relatively short notice. He's always approved it for me.

But I could easily imagine having an asshole boss who pushes back on my PTO requests, and in that circumstance I would much prefer to have contractual PTO (which is usually subject to manager approval as well, but letting it accrue creates a liability to employers because they have to pay it out when they terminate you).

Click to shrink...

I think probably due to some incident(s) that may have happened before I joined, our PTO specifically does not require manager approval. We are, of course, encouraged to inform and work with our managers, but it gets auto-approved as soon as we put it in.

 

[Mengy]

Wow, I've never heard of anyplace offering unlimited PTO. Is this a common thing outside the US? I don't know anyone nor have ever heard of any place in the US which has this??!?!?

 

[LudicrousSpeed]

In the vast majority of cases, it's a bad thing, because now your vacation time usage is entirely at the whims of your manager.

There's a reason companies have been willingly implementing Unlimited PTO policies, and it's not because they're going to start approving more time than they used to give. (A secondary factor is that with an unlimited PTO time system there is no such thing as accrued time, there's no vacation days to roll from year to year and, more importantly, there's no vacation days to pay out if someone leaves.)

 

[hyouko]

As others have said, I appreciate not having to worry about budgeting my PTO. If I want my big vacation to be two weeks in April I can do it without having to skip Christmas.

Having said that, I probably take less PTO time total with "unlimited" time off than I did when it was something with quantifiable use-it-or-lose-it value. Also, this year I've taken only a week of PTO time... there's just not that much to use it on. The two-week April vacation wasn't a hypothetical, but it got canceled because 2020 happened.

Finally, also worth noting that under an "unlimited" PTO model, you don't get to cash out your unused PTO time if you leave the job. I had two or three weeks banked at the point I left my last job and it made for a nice little exit bonus.

 

[finalflame]

It's been a pretty great thing for for my partner at her work, and for a lot of friends I know with unlimited PTO. It's really up to your company's culture.

 

[Skel1ingt0n]

I fucking hate it, it's a scam.

Have been at one employer that switched to it, and another that was debating it openly. Why would a company suddenly change to unlimited if it wasn't benefitting them?

Like mentioned plenty of times - unless you're positive your work will maintain a positive culture AND you'll continue to have a reasonable boss, you're putting yourself at risk.

My last job offered five weeks (25 days) of PTO. That's plenty for me. And if they fire me or I quit, I usually had at least half a month's pay sitting there that I'd get paid out on. When I did eventually quit - getting three week's extra pay was dope. I don't need "unlimited" so I can feel bad taking less days than I would have with set PTO. What, was I gonna suddenly take 35 days of PTO in my mid-level, middle class job?

 

[Socivol]

Wow, I've never heard of anyplace offering unlimited PTO. Is this a common thing outside the US? I don't know anyone nor have ever heard of any place in the US which has this??!?!?

Click to shrink...

It's really common in tech. I have been off work since mid-Novemeber and finally go back tomorrow because of unlimited PTO. I do generally prefer having a set amount because you get to cash it out when you leave. I got $6,000 from my previous employer when I changed to my current job due to having a set amount of PTO.

 

[Couleurs]

we have it, but you still need to get permission for every day off, like officially submitted, so I don't see the point. We still get questioned if we get over 2 weeks a year, and we need VP approval if we try to go over three weeks a year. It's basically a way for them to not pay for unused PTO days

Click to shrink...

This is why unlimited PTO is 100% bullshit. It sounds great in concept, but it only exists for companies to reduce their PTO liabilities and should absolutely not be considered a positive trend. You are only going to wind up taking less PTO, and not get paid out for unused PTO when you quit.

 

[Zuly]

The company I work for has an approval process for using PTO but more often than not they don't care about the reasoning, they just use the process as a way of formal logging. I personally prefer having Unlimited PTO even if it means that I have to request permission because Puerto Rico often gets hit with hurricanes and being able to use my PTO during this time becomes a life saver for me. I was out of work for months when Hurricane María hit but I was still getting my paychecks since I reached out to management and they told me to take as long as I needed and they would use as much of my PTO as necessary until I could come back.

 

[Nesotenso]

Wow, I've never heard of anyplace offering unlimited PTO. Is this a common thing outside the US? I don't know anyone nor have ever heard of any place in the US which has this??!?!?

Click to shrink...

There are companies in the US that offer this.

 

[mhayes86]

On paper it seems pretty cool if you're not guilted for taking off or it doesn't negatively affect your reviews by taking time off. I feel like I would be less encouraged to take time off, but at least I wouldn't have to budget my time.

On the other hand, should I leave the company, having some PTO banked for a payout is nice (my PTO isn't lost if I don't use it).

 

[prophetvx]

Wow, I've never heard of anyplace offering unlimited PTO. Is this a common thing outside the US? I don't know anyone nor have ever heard of any place in the US which has this??!?!?

Click to shrink...

It's actually more common in the US, given US companies typically are terrible with PTO allotments. Extremely common in the tech space and can be a pretty cool incentive for recruiting talent. Netflix is one of the first companies to really advertise and implement it.

In practice, management have to be extremely diligent in managing staff confidence and burnout. It comes with the benefit of not having to pay out PTO so reduces liabilities to the business but comes at the risk making your staff feel powerless in asking for time off or getting exploited.

It's fantastic being able to take a two week holiday in July and not worrying about how many days you have left over Christmas, if you have good management.

At my company the rules are basically a minimum of 2 weeks off per year (we'll mandate additional days around public holidays if time isn't taken) and a maximum of 2 weeks off in a slot unless it's for a significant life event or express permission from upper management, everyone kind of knows that if you start stretching beyond 6 weeks for a year, some questions will be asked.

 

[ThreePi]

Wow, I've never heard of anyplace offering unlimited PTO. Is this a common thing outside the US? I don't know anyone nor have ever heard of any place in the US which has this??!?!?

Click to shrink...

Its not common in the US and just started to gain traction recently.

Me, personally, am not a huge fan. Set PTO is kind of a guarantee. It is something of value that I can use or if I don't use it I get paid that back if/when I leave. I'm not someone who takes a lot of vacation time as-is, so its good knowing that I'm not necessarily losing something by not taking PTO.

 

[LuxCommander]

Having gone from unlimited to accrued... I will say that the one thing that's bogus is that it's use it or lose it if it's unlimited. There is something to being able to cash in unused time off; it made the layoff this summer sting a whole lot less. Leaving the employer with unlimited PTO though? No love lost at all.

 

[soundtrack]

No one I know that had unlimited PTO took more than the 3 weeks my company gives me annually. Seems very rare for a company to actually allow/encourage taking more than that.

 

[Kass15]

Where I work switched to unlimited and it's not good. People end up taking less time and if you decide to leave you won't get paid out for your accrued vacation. There is a reason they switch. It's not because they want everyone to have a ton of vacation.

 

[Jeff Albertson]

Nah I don't think I'd like it, then again in my job in England I have a paid entitlement of 32 days plus 7 national holidays.

Never have to feel bad using them.

I feel if that went and it was at my discretion I'd feel I was being side eyed for taking leave even if that wasn't the case, which is what they want I presume.

I'd take less in fear of silent judgement, fuck that just be decent up front

 

[sabertoothzombie]

Wait you get yelled at for using more than 10 days? And need explicit permission beyong 15? Damn. That makes all my previous employers seem like saints.

Click to shrink...

Not yelled, more like....grilled on what we're taking that much time off for, whether it's affecting the group, what we're currently working on. My manager is cool, but to cover his ass, I still need to submit it, then HR gets involved if it's too many days total. It's basically trying to make you feel like you really don't need the time off

 

[Deleted member 79451]

If you can't ask for now until the end of time off, it's not unlimited.

 

[EMBee99]

It looks like it's all very dependent on management, which was my big flag when it was brought up with us prior to the decision.

At the very least, I know I'll be cool with it because my boss is cool with it and very protective of time off as proper time off.

 

[prophetvx]

Where I work switched to unlimited and it's not good. People end up taking less time and if you decide to leave you won't get paid out for your accrued vacation. There is a reason they switch. It's not because they want everyone to have a ton of vacation.

Click to shrink...

The reason they switch is to not carry financial liability into the following year or have to pay it out. Which is fair enough, a lot of people will bank a months of PTO into Christmas and treat it as a bonus, it can carry huge implications versus forcing people to take time off.

It's been extremely successful where I work but management has been extremely liberal in forcing people to take time off if they need it.

 

[Apath]

.

 

[Hollywood Duo]

Nah, give me what I'm owed and skip the guilt trip/shaming.

 

[Lobster Roll]

Depends on the department and the company as well. We shifted from 20 PTO days at a minimum for our department but recently switched to unlimited. It's truly unlimited and the only expectation is to get your work done. Other departments have switched to unlimited as well, but they're over-managed to the point where they're all taking LESS days off. So it all boils down to management, unfortunately.

 

[MikeOfAllTrades]

My company is switching to this policy soon. My plan is to track it myself and take my usual 4 weeks off. I don't like that I no-longer feel entitled to a set amount, but I'll just pretend things are the way they used to be and not worry about it.

 

[Anustart]

I'll be back on December 31st to schedule next year off everyone.

 

[DryCreek]

.

 

[cheeseholidays]

I've never experienced such a thing. In fact we have multiple buckets of PTO, vacation, personal business, and sick leave.