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Bee.Cups

The Fallen
The medicines I'm supposed to take every month cost over $850 by themselves even using good rx. Taking the bare minimum still costs around $200, and that's not including all the treatments I can't afford that I should be taking so yeah, I would think it would be worth it at least for me.

Edit: on waiting times for a lot of things it can still take months and months to get an appointment with what I've got now with US health care.
 

Klyka

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,481
Germany
It's actually insane to me that this is even a topic that can be discussed.
Like,I realize growing up in Germany massively influences my opinion on this but Universal Healthcare is just a thing that everyone should have.
Like,you don'teven think about it, you just HAVE IT. And if you want more/different healthcare then you pay extra for it via private insurance but everyone should have a basic universal healthcare net that they can ALWAYS fall back on!
 

nopressure

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,414
I guess it depends if you're ok with 95% of a country living with third world/developing country level healthcare. Seems like a lot of people are.
 

DSN2K

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,258
United Kingdom
The medicines I'm supposed to take every month cost over $850 by themselves even using good rx. Taking the bare minimum still costs around $200, and that's not including all the treatments I can't afford that I should be taking so yeah, I would think it would be worth it at least for me.

Edit: on waiting times for a lot of things it can still take months and months to get an appointment with what I've got now with US health care.

Prescription is £9 in the UK, that's typically months supply of medication
 

The Masked Mufti

The Wise Ones
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,989
Scotland
No. Here in the UK, living in one of the many no-go areas where Sharia law rules and the police and army won't go, it is impossible to get medical attention because all the hospitals are literally spilling over with the victims of mass stabbings. We pray on a daily basis for a good private healthcare system like they have in the US, but previous Communist (sorry, 'Labour') governments have made that illegal.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...e-far-right-economic-inequality-a8588226.html
You already know that you're "fact" was bullshit and propaganda used by alt-right cunts like EDF and yet here we are.

edit: my bad.Didn't realise it was satire.
 

DSN2K

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,258
United Kingdom
No. Here in the UK, living in one of the many no-go areas where Sharia law rules and the police and army won't go, it is impossible to get medical attention because all the hospitals are literally spilling over with the victims of mass stabbings. We pray on a daily basis for a good private healthcare system like they have in the US, but previous Communist (sorry, 'Labour') governments have made that illegal.

What horse shit you talking, where do you live then where hospital are spilling over with stabbings ?
 

Devil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,666
Last Summer I broke my hand. I was able to get into a hospital and fix it within three hours. I paid about 20 dollars (CDN) for my splint. That is the only cost I ever had to deal with. Is universal healthcare worth it though?

When you get older you'll have to pay way more money, regularly. By having a monthly health care bill higher than your $20 right now you pay for your elderly and sick so that they don't have to be homeless or die without the means for private health care. In turn, the next generation will do the same for you when you get old.

You can't just look at your $20 bill and compare it to monthly health care costs and be like 'not worth it!', lol.
 

Clefargle

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,124
Limburg
No. Here in the UK, living in one of the many no-go areas where Sharia law rules and the police and army won't go, it is impossible to get medical attention because all the hospitals are literally spilling over with the victims of mass stabbings. We pray on a daily basis for a good private healthcare system like they have in the US, but previous Communist (sorry, 'Labour') governments have made that illegal.

Im assuming this is satire

because No-go zones don't exist in the west
 

Adventureracing

The Fallen
Nov 7, 2017
8,035
So hard to tell if threads like this are satire, for the OP's sake I hope. Otherwise you need to educate yourself and develop just a small amount of empathy.
 

Aya

Member
If I broke my hand, no matter what I'm paying 1300 for my deductible to be fulfilled.
Say it's a 3,000 bill (that's generously low), the insurance will only pay 90% of that remaining 1700.
So boom I'm paying $1470 out of pocket.

That's so crazy, I know the US healthcare system is..how it is, but everytime I hear of such examples I just can't wrap my head around it - how do so many US voters support the current system and brand the EU format as socialist nonsense? Do they enjoy paying a small fortune for a hospital visit? Do they find pleasure in the thought that others can't afford it? I just don't get it. Just like this thread.

Is this a serious question OP?
 

Lishi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,284
That's so crazy, I know the US healthcare system is..how it is, but everytime I hear of such examples I just can't wrap my head around it - how do so many US voters support the current system and brand the EU format as socialist nonsense? Do they enjoy paying a small fortune for a hospital visit? Do they find pleasure in the thought that others can't afford it? I just don't get it. Just like this thread.

Is this a serious question OP?
Most people don't visit hospital so most people don't notice I guess.
 

Fiddler

Member
Oct 27, 2017
380
Americans are crazy when it comes to health care in my opinion. It´s worth it from all standpoints, it makes a healthier and by that a more productive populace, it gives much more leverage against the pharma industry pricing for example, it helps lowering crime and drug abuse. Sure it´s not free but nothing is.
 

zou

Member
Oct 29, 2017
743
RE wait times: Had my hernia surgery two weeks after it being diagnosed, at the hospital of my choice (one of the top hernia centers in Europe). Had it been an emergency, they would have scheduled the surgery right away, so can't complain about the short wait. All in all, I paid 10 EUR for the hospital stay, 5 EUR for 2 weeks of painkillers. Follow-up wound dressing/checking and other related services were free and I was seen the same day after a short wait.

Compared to the insurance I had in the US it's light years easier and cheaper. But the biggest difference is the peace of mind you have, knowing that everything will be covered and there is no chance of waking up to a $x k bill because of bullshit out-of-network charges or the insurance company deciding they don't feel like paying..
 

Sidewinder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,190
I've got insurance through work.

Still pay 100 bucks a month for it.

If I broke my hand, no matter what I'm paying 1300 for my deductible to be fulfilled.
Say it's a 3,000 bill (that's generously low), the insurance will only pay 90% of that remaining 1700.
So boom I'm paying $1470 out of pocket.

Many people have the ability to budget for emergencies. I certainly can.
But it's much easier to budget my finances when I know large out of pocket medical costs aren't a thing.

And if I had to guess, my insurance plan is actually probably considered better than average.
My employer still contributes about 450 bucks a month to subsidize my premiums, too.

Medicare for all. Now.

Nice, sounds like Switzerland. I've got a 2'500$ deductible, so I pretty much never go to the doctor, because I'd have to pay for everything myself. Like in the USA, we are told on a daily basis to have one of the best health care systems in the world, at least for those fortunate enough to afford it, lol.

Some asshat from an insurance company even championed 10'000$ deductibles, what a genius! The poorer would've to choose the highest one, to minimise the monthly insurance costs and pray to Jesus to never get seriously sick in their life, because they'd never be able to afford it.

Health insurance is mandatory for everyone in Switzerland, the poorest get subsidized to some degree, depends on where you live. It's actually like a tax, just that the richest mofo will pay exactly the same like the poorest dude that can just afford to pay for the insurance by himself and this is called "solidarity" around here, lol.
 

Z6E1Z9O

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 28, 2017
451
about 10 years ago my grandfather's health started deteriorating to the point where he couldn't even talk, we called an ambulance and due to his extremely bad state we had to go to the nearest hospital which happened to be a private hospital that is extremely expensive, he stayed there for about 2 months and then died due to his lungs failing.

when we asked about the bill we were told it was about 400k sar(about 110 thousand usd) but the government paid everything.

and one of my father's friends got flown at governments expense to germany just to get treated for his rare cancer condition.

im extremely grateful and consider myself to be extremely lucky to be a citizen of a country that has universal healthcare and goes out of its way to treats its citizens.

and we also dont pay taxes here...
 

Deleted member 49611

Nov 14, 2018
5,052
i love the NHS here.

i took it for granted. there is no worry if you are unwell or sick. you can see a doctor no problem and whatever they prescribe you is free. just go to a pharmacy and wait. if you wake up during the night you can just go visit a hospital and there are out of hour practices. if you can't make your way there yourself then there is no need to worry about whether or not you can afford an ambulance. you don't need to pay for an xray or any kind of surgery. if you get cancer you don't need to give up your life savings or get yourself into debt.

it's a shame that this will probably disappear at some point with the way this country is going.
 

viskod

Member
Nov 9, 2017
4,396
As someone who was very nearly destroyed financially because I woke up in an ER after an accident only to be told "This ER and these surgeons were out of your Network, OOPS!" Yes. It is very worth it.
 

Yas

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
503
Arctic Circle, Finland
Universal Healthcare is very nice thing to have. I was hospitalized last fall, and it made me appreciate the universal healthcare even more. Sure I had to pay a small fee of 50€ per night during my stay at hospital ward. This 50€ included all costs and medical experiments such as MRI's, X-rays, medicines etc. I loathe to think how much it would've cost in U.S.
 

Rowsdower

Prophet of Truth - The Wise Ones
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,572
Canada
Yes.

If we lived in the States, with all the tests, prescriptions, and emergency visits my Mom and Dad have to do/get, we would have been bankrupt years ago. Or at least my parents would've died.

I and my family will take long wait times a million times over non universal healthcare.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,483
That's so crazy, I know the US healthcare system is..how it is, but everytime I hear of such examples I just can't wrap my head around it - how do so many US voters support the current system and brand the EU format as socialist nonsense? Do they enjoy paying a small fortune for a hospital visit? Do they find pleasure in the thought that others can't afford it? I just don't get it. Just like this thread.

Is this a serious question OP?
I think many honestly don't know better. Most Americans don't leave the country, never mind living elsewhere to experience other healthcare systems. They have been fed scare stories about socialised medicine for decades. They see the cost of insurance premiums, deductibles, and drugs and treatments that have been massively marked up and associate that as the cost of healthcare and that any universal system must be equally expensive. They're unaware that they've been exploited by an inefficient system full of unnecessary bean counters and mega wealthy execs.
 

Good4Squat

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
3,148
It isn't without its problems, then again what is, but it sure seems a hell of a lot better than the alternative.
 

JasoNsider

Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,149
Canada
Heheh that OP.

Canadian chiming in here. I think it's absolutely wild that Americans hum and haw over this. Even with some things I would improve about our system, I can't imagine not having it. It's essential.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,977
about 10 years ago my grandfather's health started deteriorating to the point where he couldn't even talk, we called an ambulance and due to his extremely bad state we had to go to the nearest hospital which happened to be a private hospital that is extremely expensive, he stayed there for about 2 months and then died due to his lungs failing.

when we asked about the bill we were told it was about 400k sar(about 110 thousand usd) but the government paid everything.

and one of my father's friends got flown at governments expense to germany just to get treated for his rare cancer condition.

im extremely grateful and consider myself to be extremely lucky to be a citizen of a country that has universal healthcare and goes out of its way to treats its citizens.

and we also dont pay taxes here...
Don't pay taxes? What country is this?
 

Gigglepoo

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,317
At the debate last night, Warren (I think) was talking about how she bet three people from Nevada who share one prescription for insulin because it's so damn expensive. A few minutes later, Biden was praising Obamacare. Uh...

The absolutely dumbest argument against Universal Healthcare is "But then I'll lose my insurance!" or "I won't have a choice!" or whatever dumb BS conservatives have poisoned people's minds with. If we had UHC, we would be able to see any doctor. There wouldn't be any more out-of-network markups. How can people be so blind? I get that the ultrarich want to keep the masses away from good doctors, but doesn't the average person realize how limiting their choices are right now?

I'd suck at being a politician because I'd always want to scream how dumb people are being.
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
The absolutely dumbest argument against Universal Healthcare is "But then I'll lose my insurance!" or "I won't have a choice!" or whatever dumb BS conservatives have poisoned people's minds with. If we had UHC, we would be able to see any doctor. There wouldn't be any more out-of-network markups. How can people be so blind? I get that the ultrarich want to keep the masses away from good doctors, but doesn't the average person realize how limiting their choices are right now?

As someone who had to do at least a little pushback against trouble with insurance not covering emergency surgery at a hospital that was out-of-network after a referral from an urgent care clinic, all this stuff about insurance networks can get fucked. I'm thankful I was able to reach a point where we were billed the in-network deductible so we didn't, like, go broke, but if this is what good insurance looks like the whole system is bad and needs to end immediately.
 

Gigglepoo

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,317
As someone who had to do at least a little pushback against trouble with insurance not covering emergency surgery at a hospital that was out-of-network after a referral from an urgent care clinic, all this stuff about insurance networks can get fucked. I'm thankful I was able to reach a point where we were billed the in-network deductible so we didn't, like, go broke, but if this is what good insurance looks like the whole system is bad and needs to end immediately.

It's crazy that we just accept "out-of-network providers" as a thing. Why the heck can't I use the insurance I pay so much for at any medical facility. Because reasons! Our system is so messed up. It was maddening watching democrats waste time debating whether or not it's good for everyone to be insured. What are we even doing!? The only argument is "I got mine, fuck the poor."
 

SolVanderlyn

I love pineapple on pizza!
Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,509
Earth, 21st Century
I had minor heart palpitations one time in high school and they mandated that an ambulance come and get me and bring me to the hospital. Nothing was wrong. Ambulance bill was insane, like $500 or more (I don't remember because my parents paid it at the time). As an adult with his own money that terrifies me. I'd rather keep quiet and pretend nothing is wrong.

Meanwhile, I fractured my arm in Japan and had to pay almost nothing. Had weekly visits and physical therapy and everything.
 

Huey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,198
Given it is the number 1 cause of bankruptcy in the US, I'm not sure how you can argue otherwise.

20% of the US population is underinsured or uninsured. What it really comes down to is whether the United States as a foundational principal cares about all of its citizens equally. Anyone arguing against universal healthcare is making it clear they do not.

The question is really not whether you break your wrist. The question is whether unpredictable and/or unpreventable events like getting into a major motor vehicle collision or randomly developing lymphoma should financially ruin said 20% of the population. Or make them choose between life-sustaining therapies.

If you want a reasonably succinct and digestible discussion of it, John Oliver just tackled Medicare for All in the most recent episode. He obviously has an opinion, but it's clear it's informed (and in my opinion as a Canadian, completely correct).
 
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Oct 25, 2017
5,579
Racoon City
Honestly if anyone thinks paying $3000-6000 for an ambulance ride, then hoping they take you to an in network hospital then hoping the doctor/specialist who sees and treats you is in network themselves, then having to go back and forth with billing and your insurance company and hope your insurance company covers the procedure you just had. Then worrying if you met your deductible if they did indeed over it, so you're not trying to figure out how to handle this new $150+ monthly bill to cover the rest, or worse your insurance didn't cover the procedure now you're on the hook for a $50,000+ procedure

is better than universal healthcare...you're dumb
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
It's crazy that we just accept "out-of-network providers" as a thing. Why the heck can't I use the insurance I pay so much for at any medical facility. Because reasons! Our system is so messed up. It was maddening watching democrats waste time debating whether or not it's good for everyone to be insured. What are we even doing!? The only argument is "I got mine, fuck the poor."

Hell considering the costs of most emergency care it's not even "fuck the poor", it's "fuck anybody without tens of thousands in savings right now" which I would argue includes many people above the poverty line as it currently stands.
 

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
I have had so many ultrasounds and bloodtests in the last month or so for inevitable miscarriage, the most I've paid is my time and maybe $5 sign up fee for some online access to results because I didn't want to wait to hear from doctor a few days later. Thanks, Canada?

Anyway, yeah it's worth it. Mostly had a good time lol.

OT: Wait, I thought things were looking good this time around. Did things deteriorate?
 

Puroresu_kid

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,465
saudi arabia, basically every gulf country is like this (uae, kuwait, qatar, oman, bahrain, saudi arabia)

Also any gcc national has the right to get treated at any hospital in the gcc for free.

Is Zakat mandated?

Can I ask what is the deal for the non GCC national when it comes to Healthcare? Do they get the same?
 

Gigglepoo

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,317
Hell considering the costs of most emergency care it's not even "fuck the poor", it's "fuck anybody without tens of thousands in savings right now" which I would argue includes many people above the poverty line as it currently stands.

And don't forget selfish old people who are already covered under medicare.
 

Z6E1Z9O

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 28, 2017
451
Is Zakat mandated?

Can I ask what is the deal for the non GCC national when it comes to Healthcare? Do they get the same?

nope, zakat isnt mandated at all, actually it isnt even a law to pay zakat, it's just something that is written in quran and other religious books that states that muslims should pay about %2.5 of their money to the poor. And nowadays only 'religious people' pay this while most people just give charities randomly throughout the year.

the only taxes that we actually pay is the %5 vat which was only introduced in 2018.

as for the healthcare for non gcc nationals syrian and yemeni refugess get treated for free, however people that come under work contracts are fully covered by insurance and can be treated at most private hospitals For free since companies are required by law to provide their contractors with full insurance.

also you are welcome to ask about anything, dont worry about it =)
 

Deleted member 21012

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 28, 2017
171
It is quite good. We have universal, mandatory healthcare in Israel - it works, quality is good, however, it can take you a long time to see a specialist if you're not in the Tel Aviv-Jerusalem area. I can't complain.
 

Puroresu_kid

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,465
nope, zakat isnt mandated at all, actually it isnt even a law to pay zakat, it's just something that is written in quran and other religious books that states that muslims should pay about %2.5 of their money to the poor. And nowadays only 'religious people' pay this while most people just give charities randomly throughout the year.

the only taxes that we actually pay is the %5 vat which was only introduced in 2018.

as for the healthcare for non gcc nationals syrian and yemeni refugess get treated for free, however people that come under work contracts are fully covered by insurance and can be treated at most private hospitals For free since companies are required by law to provide their contractors with full insurance.

also you are welcome to ask about anything, dont worry about it =)


Thanks.
 

Prax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,755
OT: Wait, I thought things were looking good this time around. Did things deteriorate?
Yeah, you can read it in my thread!
But basically all my numbers looked good until one night I woke up to get ready for work but felt wetness and quickly headed to bathroom and a floodgate of blood opened up. This was the night before my second ultrasound too lol. What timing. I'm mostly recovered by now!
 

Broken Hope

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,316
Based on this on Twitter most of America is still fuck you, I got mine.

twitter.com

Bernie Sanders on Twitter

“If you have health insurance, I'm asking you to fight for those who don't. If you're native-born, I'm asking you to fight for the undocumented. If you can afford an education, I'm asking you to fight for those who can't. The only way we defeat Trump is with human solidarity.”

The comments are crazy.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,494
Based on this on Twitter most of America is still fuck you, I got mine.

twitter.com

Bernie Sanders on Twitter

“If you have health insurance, I'm asking you to fight for those who don't. If you're native-born, I'm asking you to fight for the undocumented. If you can afford an education, I'm asking you to fight for those who can't. The only way we defeat Trump is with human solidarity.”

The comments are crazy.

Take, for example:

Nothing is wrong with compassion. What IS wrong is sitting on one's ass wanting others to take care of you! What's wrong with getting off one's ass and doing for themselves? What's wrong is some working, and then having to be forced to give to those that refuse to! No work no eat

Even if you truly, deeply (madly) believed this... How can't you realize that this would benefit society as a whole? Yes, including you, you oh-so-proud taxpayer. It's fucking mindboggling. Especially when he begins with "there's nothing wrong with compassion", then proceeds to shit all over anything remotely resembling compassion towards other humans.
 

Kiekura

Member
Mar 23, 2018
4,043
It is so weird to read conversations about this topic. So many Americans dont want universal healthcare, because that would mean more taxes and they would be "losing" money, but they don't realise that they are currently paying more for their healthcare than people in Europe or Canada as example.
 

P-MAC

Member
Nov 15, 2017
4,464
As someone in the UK with severe asthma and a nut allergy, let me tell you the answer is undebatably yes.

I need salbutamol and seretide inhalers every month. I also need a constant epipen ready just in case. If I had to buy those out of my own pocket at US prices, my quality of life would significantly decrease.

In fact I'd probably be forced to not bother and end up dying lol

and that's a pretty mild condition compared to what a lot of people have to deal with.
 
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