Is this a realistic housing plan for Gen X, Millienals, Gen Z? from a comment on Reddti.

[PanickyFool]

The increase in population is the problem, then?

Click to shrink...

There really is not much of a significant population growth is high cost cities. The primary causes are a decrease in typical household size and a reduction in available housing units.

Local socialist preventing the construction of additional homes. Wealthy capitalists buying multiple units, combining, and creating larger owners occupied homes.

 

[Magic-Man]

And I'm only half-joking...

Click to shrink...

Where do I sign up?

 

[Nilson]

feeds into my main goal of taking over a tiny village in like the middle of nowhere ny and turning it into a gay haven lol (fulton I'm looking at you)

 

[Deleted member 24052]

The increase in population is the problem, then?

Click to shrink...

Well yeah eventually there won't be room for everyone to live comfortably, but that's probably not in our lifetime.

 

[Desi]

feeds into my main goal of taking over a tiny village in like the middle of nowhere ny and turning it into a gay haven lol (fulton I'm looking at you)

Click to shrink...

Isn't this literally everyone's dream give or take NY? Brunello Cucinelli accomplished so damn much.

 

[Syriel]

Well yeah eventually there won't be room for everyone to live comfortably, but that's probably not in our lifetime.

Click to shrink...

At least in the US, there is so much open space, this isn't going to happen for centuries.

Popular towns weren't always popular. Even in the mid 90s you could get a 2b/2ba condo in downtown San Jose for $200k-$225k.

There will be new hotspots over time.

 

[Darren Lamb]

I grew up in a relatively rural suburb and have no real desire to have that life again. Had to drive 20+ minutes for everything minus food

I think I have been seeing younger people flee the city for certain types of suburbs, which is something we might do. We looked at a condo yesterday in Newburyport, which is 40 miles from Boston. Commute would be brutal (although 2-3 times a week instead of 5) but it's a nice area with a good downtown, we could still walk to shops and restaurants, beach is super close, good schools, etc. I'd get to keep most of what I like about living near the city but get a yard and at a price (550k or so) that is much more affordable. I think my first choice is still to live close to a subway stop and still have access to the city, but if we're not going to be able to pull that off then a nice walkable suburb would be a decent compromise.

 

[ryan299]

Bunch of millennials I know from NY/NJ area are moving to the Carolinas. Cheap and up and coming.

Property taxes are way too expensive up here so people are leaving. Going to be a massive issue in a few decades if they don't lower the property taxes and find ways to attract people. Just way too much money needed to buy a house and these gens aren't saving/earning enough to buy one.

Right now NYC is screwed. People are moving upstate to escape it bc of the virus. The market is crazy. People blindly throwing offers. The house I'm currently in the process of buying I had to buy with just a virtual tour.

 

[Pau]

For those interested in some ideal cities (interesting, youthful, cultured, liberalto consider here's a good view on where some stand today (Bolded by favorites)

Priced out - San Francisco, New York City, Los Angeles, Boston, Washington DC, Honolulu

Nearly priced out - Seattle, San Diego, Miami, Austin, Denver, Portland

Mid-High cost - Dallas, Chicago, Houston, Atlanta, Nashville, Boulder

Mid cost but rising rapidly - Phoenix, Minneapolis, Charlotte/Raleigh, Orlando, Tampa, Boise, Salt Lake City

Mid cost and more stable - Baltimore, Philadelphia, New Orleans, Las Vegas, Bend/Eugene

Cheap and still interesting - Detroit, Milwaukee, Louisville, Kansas City, Des Moines, Columbus, Idaho Falls, Greensboro, Fairbanks, Santa Fe, Madison

Cheap but on cusp of not being worth it - Indianapolis, Omaha, Cleveland, Cinccinatti, most of the South (Alabama, Arkansas, Mississippi), Albuquerque, Fargo/Grand Forks,

Click to shrink...

Which of these, outside of NYC and Boston, can you get by without a car?

I'm so jealous of other countries' transportation systems.

 

[Midgarian]

The answer is moving all the office jobs to be remote. Then geography price and value gauging dies.

 

[Deleted member 30395]

I feel like remote working is key to this idea. But it's a good idea if widespread adoption of working from home happens

 

[Zoe]

The answer is moving all the office jobs to be remote. Then geography price and value gauging dies.

Click to shrink...

You can't just go anywhere. People need to live where there's a functioning public infrastructure and service/retail industry.

 

[PanickyFool]

Well yeah eventually there won't be room for everyone to live comfortably, but that's probably not in our lifetime.

Click to shrink...

You can fit the entire population of the world into Texas with a giant Paris like city.

You can't just go anywhere. People need to live where there's a functioning public infrastructure and service/retail industry.

Click to shrink...

So why do people live in NYC?

 

[Deleted member 6230]

There really is not much of a significant population growth is high cost cities. The primary causes are a decrease in typical household size and a reduction in available housing units.

Local socialist preventing the construction of additional homes. Wealthy capitalists buying multiple units, combining, and creating larger owners occupied homes.

Click to shrink...

I doubt "local socialist" have any power here in this regard at least in my city. The big problem is that housing remains a good to park and invest your money and with that being the case it's no wonder you have issues with NIMBYs and such. Not to mention RACISM

 

[Dr. Feel Good]

Which of these, outside of NYC and Boston, can you get by without a car?

I'm so jealous of other countries' transportation systems.

Click to shrink...

depends on what your requirments are. I've lived in LA for 6 years without a car. It's possible it just limits certain things you can do at certain times.

from a pure train perspective. SF, Portland, and Minneapolis are pretty decent. Cities like Kansas City, Austin, Des Moines, Nashville, etc. are all small enough where you could get by with a bike.

 

[Woylie]

lol, as a trans person I don't think the middle of nowhere would be a great place to live

Saying something like this speaks to the amount of privilege that you live with - some people can't afford to just deal with a place where "the people are mostly shit," both in terms of physical safety and mental/emotional wellbeing

 

[VariantX]

Problem is getting the jobs to go to the hickvilles with you, also knowing your kids will probably become Hicks themselves.... I couldn't do that to them.

Click to shrink...

Then theres the fact that services are limited out in the sticks. Having weekly trash pick up, being able to get medical help in a timely matter, and having paved roads that don't wash away in a bad storm are things people take for granted in the cities

 

[Dabanton]

I just cant live in a cultural dead zone

That's what keeps a lot of us tied to big cities

 

[Deleted member 50374]

I don't see how this recreates the same issues as moving into larger cities as there must be thousands of smaller cities that are pretty decent to live in but aren't major social and economic capitals. 20,000 high paying individuals moving into 2 cities isn't the same thing as 20,000 high paying individuals moving into 200 towns. Buying a small flat in my city is more expensive than buying a small villa and restructuring it (taking into account square meters) in a decent village.

Even in my own country there are a couple so called "capitals" but then there are at least 50 other cities that are also pretty good to live in, they're just a lot distant from the capital. And high paying jobs do tend to attract lower paying ones too. Services still require people to function, unlike capital that only needs internet access nowadays.

 

[Manmademan]

lol, as a trans person I don't think the middle of nowhere would be a great place to live

Saying something like this speaks to the amount of privilege that you live with - some people can't afford to just deal with a place where "the people are mostly shit," both in terms of physical safety and mental/emotional wellbeing

Click to shrink...

This. I'm not trans, but as a black dude there are VAST swaths of rural pennsylvania I will absolutely not go anywhere near unless you paid me. It's too dangerous, there would be no social support. Moving out there would literally kill me.

Moving to a smaller metro area would probably be fine- but I don't need to move to the middle of nowhere to find a house for 115K.

 

[Pau]

depends on what your requirments are. I've lived in LA for 6 years without a car. It's possible it just limits certain things you can do at certain times.

from a pure train perspective. SF, Portland, and Minneapolis are pretty decent. Cities like Kansas City, Austin, Des Moines, Nashville, etc. are all small enough where you could get by with a bike.

Click to shrink...

Thanks for the response! :)

 

[dep9000]

I took a mini vacation and I'm in a ghost town now, and God it's depressing. I'd never live in a dying town. I need good food, schools, culture, etc

 

[samoyed]

Yes and no, there's a reason the small rural town model is dying. They cannot economically sustain themselves. They lack the industry except when a Walmart plops down locally, then the Walmart becomes the entire local economy. Asking people living paycheck-to-paycheck to strike out on their own and settle new cities to build them up from scratch is some naive pioneer capitalism bullshit.

"College educated from DC" strikes me as admitting this poster had a lifeline to fall back on if his pioneership didn't work out.

He is correct insofar as realizing all modern cities were built this way. He misses the fact that there are millions of people who didn't "make it" and they usually died if they couldn't return to their origin. It's a gamble with your life on the line. Put it another way, this is just another form of "die for the economy" stuff we mock the GOP for. "Die for urban expansion".

 

[Saganator]

This kinda happens already but developers come in and fuck up all the natural growth older towns and stuff got to have. You see it a lot in the Colorado mountain towns. There are all kinds of cool little towns and neighborhoods that popped up, all of the houses are 60-20+ years old, no cookie cutters. That doesn't happen anymore. As soon as a chunk of land becomes available, instead of folks just buying up lots one by one, a developer comes, buys all the land and builds a brand new gated mountain community with filled with McMansions and no character.

 

[leder]

There's frankly a very depressing lack of perspective in this thread. You can't afford to rent a 1br on minimum wage in 95% of the counties in the US. The great affordability crisis spans the entire country. It's not limited to big metros. Yes, underbuilding in a few big metros (looking at you LA and SF), or unanticipated booms (Seattle, Portland) caused huge housing crunches. But the affordability crisis is everywhere, not just some superstar metros.

Going remote with your office job somewhere so you can buy a huge ass house might make your personal situation marginally better, but all it's going to do is drive up COL somewhere else that can't support it. There are many communities already grappling with this phenomenon, in particular on the west coast. The crushing unaffordability is driven by parasitic, rent seeking behavior in housing, education and medicine. We need to challenge the profit models of these industries to get any real gains. Currently there is no actual backstop from rents continuing to suck up higher and higher percentages of household incomes. Doubling down on "this house in locale x is a way better investment than the one in locale y" is just going to continue to dig a deeper hole for subsequent generations to try and dig themselves out of, not to mention exacerbate existing wealth gaps between demographics.

 

[nampad]

For quite a lot of jobs, that just isn't an option.

I would happily move to some smaller town again and lose the comfort pf a big city if it means I will get a big house for my family.
Added bonus would be a safer environment (less crimes, junkies etc.).

Only issue is, there isn't anything to do in my line of work.

 

[Merv]

My daughter and her friend both 19, just bought a trailer together. I haven't been there yet, but her friends mom lives in the same park and it's well maintained.

Phoenix AZ

 

[Jeremy]

Fighting for affordable public housing on a local level where you live now is probably a better tactic than moving to some ghost town.

 

[turbobrick]

My daughter and her friend both 19, just bought a trailer together. I haven't been there yet, but her friends mom lives in the same park and it's well maintained.

Phoenix AZ

Click to shrink...

I didn't know there were very many trailer parks in the Phoenix area that aren't way out in the outskirts or retirement communities.

 

[Sunster]

Culture is what you make.

If a bunch of people move to a new area and build up a new town, they build the culture.

If there is one positive thing about COVID it is that remote work has suddenly become the norm.

Moving from a small ass apartment in SF to a house with a yard is very appealing for many, especially if the costs are cheaper and an airport is still within driving distance.

Click to shrink...

but suburbs are mostly devoid of culture and yet have many people.

 

[gcwy]

Well yeah eventually there won't be room for everyone to live comfortably, but that's probably not in our lifetime.

Click to shrink...

Why do you think that?

 

[Syriel]

Which of these, outside of NYC and Boston, can you get by without a car?

I'm so jealous of other countries' transportation systems.

Click to shrink...

SF and Chicago can both be done car free.

but suburbs are mostly devoid of culture and yet have many people.

Click to shrink...

Define culture.

Movies, theater, restaurants, poetry slams, coffee shops, local sports, artists, etc.

Got all that and more in the suburbs of Chicago.

 

[Deleted member 4367]

For some reason, if I think culture, I think local music venues and an art district. Mostly music venues.

 

[Aztechnology]

Errrr this plan completely discounts that opportunity is concentrated as well.

 

[kyle mechlachlan]

My partnerd home town is cheap as fuck and we fully intend to move back sometime soon and buy a cheap house and working some remote job and live like kings.

 

[whatsinaname]

Errrr this plan completely discounts that opportunity is concentrated as well.

Click to shrink...

Yeah. Initially your relatively higher wealth might give you a leg up (I can buy a house for $200000!) but how do you live sustainably in that place. No one's paying SF/NYC wages in Paris, IL. Facebook already said as much.

People who retire to SE Asia from Europe or Australia are able to do it cause they continue to get their pension at Aus/EU economy levels.

 

[Syriel]

For some reason, if I think culture, I think local music venues and an art district. Mostly music venues.

Click to shrink...

You can find that in any decent suburban area.

 

[Deleted member 4367]

You can find that in any decent suburban area.

Click to shrink...

College towns too.

I think college towns are a good compromise between Urban and suburban environments.

 

[Pet]

I don't care too much about culture per se (would miss the live shows and fancy Michelin places), as I'd much rather have a yard and a garden... but... I'm not super comfortable about the idea of being a minority and having to deal with racism. I might be able to handle it as an adult, but I don't want my children growing up like that.

 

[Merv]

I didn't know there were very many trailer parks in the Phoenix area that aren't way out in the outskirts or retirement communities.

Click to shrink...

I guess I shouldn't say Phoenix. I think it's El Mirage or Surprise, but it's on the corner of Waddell Rd and Grand Ave

 

[turbobrick]

I guess I shouldn't say Phoenix. I think it's El Mirage or Surprise, but it's on the corner of Waddell Rd and Grand Ave

Click to shrink...

Ah, yeah that's pretty far out there, pretty much near the edge of the city. Or at least what used to be the edge. Now that the loop 303 is out there, a lot more neighborhoods now, though I live on the other end of the city and haven't been out there in years, so I don't know for sure.

 

[GamerJM]

lol, as a trans person I don't think the middle of nowhere would be a great place to live

Saying something like this speaks to the amount of privilege that you live with - some people can't afford to just deal with a place where "the people are mostly shit," both in terms of physical safety and mental/emotional wellbeing

Click to shrink...

I'm (likely? probably? idk) trans and I'm honest-to-god considering moving from the San Francisco Bay Area to fuckin Nebraska or Missouri or Illinois or rural Texas or whatever. The housing prices here just give me an anxiety attack to look at. Part of me would rather live in a city populated by transphobes and just lock myself up in a house full of stuff I want to do than continue to live here and risk being homeless if my parents don't support me being trans and if I become unemployed.

 

[Merv]

Ah, yeah that's pretty far out there, pretty much near the edge of the city. Or at least what used to be the edge. Now that the loop 303 is out there, a lot more neighborhoods now, though I live on the other end of the city and haven't been out there in years, so I don't know for sure.

Click to shrink...

I can get to downtown Phoenix in under an hour, even during rush hour, from 163rd and Jomax. The 303 and the 202 expansion have made most of the valley accessible in about an hour from almost anywhere. Cars are pretty inexpensive here as well. I also have a coworker paying $1200 for a 2 BR apartment around 11325 Bell Rd. Not great, but not bad considering AZ's $12 min wage.

 

[Woylie]

I'm (likely? probably? idk) trans and I'm honest-to-god considering moving from the San Francisco Bay Area to fuckin Nebraska or Missouri or Illinois or rural Texas or whatever. The housing prices here just give me an anxiety attack to look at. Part of me would rather live in a city populated by transphobes and just lock myself up in a house full of stuff I want to do than continue to live here and risk being homeless if my parents don't support me being trans and if I become unemployed.

Click to shrink...

San Francisco's notoriously expensive, but there are definitely cheaper, more trans-friendly cities out there like Portland or Austin or even smaller ones - I'd do some research and see if there are more liberal-minded small cities or college towns with relatively cheaper rents rather than going to the most rural areas. SF's definitely not normal in terms of rent!

 

[GamerJM]

San Francisco's notoriously expensive, but there are definitely cheaper, more trans-friendly cities out there like Portland or Austin or even smaller ones - I'd do some research and see if there are more liberal-minded small cities or college towns with relatively cheaper rents rather than going to the most rural areas. SF's definitely not normal in terms of rent!

Click to shrink...

I guess the thing is that all of my friends/family live here and I don't really want to start over and try to build that somewhere else. I'm extremely introverted and would probably just keep to myself wherever I am instead of here. Also cities like Portland and Austin are getting more expensive. They're definitely way better than SF, but they're still outside the price range of what I'd feel comfortable with (i.e. somewhere where I could buy a house in my early 30s and live financially comfortably on a 50-65k a year-ish salary).

 

[The Namekian]

A few things

1) there should be incentive programs to "inspire" people to move to less crowded cities. It would have to extend to business as well.

2) creating some sort of new interstate high speed train system, or getting really "sci-fi" a new highway to accommodate automated driving vehicles would be a great way to survey and plan this out. Basically cities could sprout from the stop locations.

3) a federally backed co-op program would be a great way to create opportunities for people to move into non major cities.

Basically it would take massive government intervention for this to happen. There are no more gold rush and manufacturing jobs that use to inspire this are gone.

Another really, really out there option would be for cities to expand into the suburbs officially. Like Westchester county (or parts of it) being absorbed by NYC and the city/state putting up the funds to incorporate it into NYC.

 

[FLEABttn]

Errrr this plan completely discounts that opportunity is concentrated as well.

Click to shrink...

Yeah basically this. Unless jobs/industry moves with you (and, they aren't going to be the forfront of any relocation), you kneecap your opportunity if you don't already have something good going into it. I had something alright when I lived in Albuquerque but it had no career path and it lacked in culture. If you're good with that, great, enjoy your low cost of living. If you're not, you're hoping to make something out of lesser opportunity.

Killing local zoning is long term more useful than creating new cities and spreading out is.

 

[Failburger]

Besides, nothing is more depressing then going to a "mexican" restaurant and get served "tacos" made out of hard corn shell and a "sopapilla" that's a warmed up tortilla covered in whip cream and chocolate syrup.

There's so much culture in cities. The fact that I can taste a different cousin everyday of the week is amazing. When I was working the oil fields and going to these small towns there was nothing to eat and nowhere to buy. The closest coffee shop was 2 hours away a lot of the time. My diet was basically McDonald, Gas Station Food, and whatever I can find at a grocer deli.

The amount of 'what you doing here, boy?' stares I got was alarming. I felt like I was constantly 1 misstep away from being jumped and beaten.

There were no entertainment. You want to watch the latest movie? Drive 2 hours. You want to hang out with friends? Go to one of two bars (which can be a nightmare for the above mentioned 'what you doing here boy' attitudes). You want to stream youtube? Good fucking luck, cause you either depending on satellite internet or your cell phone.

There's nothing to do out there besides hang around a bunch of angry people complaining about the nation that's steadily leaving them behind. Seriously, you want to time travel back 10,20,30 years? Go to a rural town.

 

[samoyed]

And it is ridiculous to suggest that working civilians be the ones to bear the risk of expanding into unsettled, unproven locales. The extant megacorporations all have massive warchests they use on bullshit like CEO bonuses or stock buybacks, all the while setting up new HQs in ultracrowded cities like NYC or Portland (I'm looking at you, Bezos) hat-in-hand fishing for tax breaks. Who do you think has the means to set up a seed city, Bezos with his billion dollar business or Zoomer kids who just lost their first job to the pandemic? Or millennials who had 10 years in between major global recessions to economically establish themselves?

No, the jobs must go first, then people might follow. Expecting the jobs to wait for the settlers to establish themselves first is ludicrous. Why should we expect the people with the least to give to bear the brunt of the risk? There was once cause to uproot yourself and settle somewhere else. Those opportunities have all but disappeared.