Is there anything the far right can't steal?

Deleted member 4461 · Jan 20, 2021

The thread about the word "female" made me think of an issue I've had for a long time: the Right can claim any and everything.

The OK symbol is now about white supremacy, Pepe is an alt-right symbol, and so on.

The left just kind of holds the L, too. Like "oh, I guess that's theirs and it's offensive now." And we never actually claim stuff ourselves.

So someone, explain to me... why?

Alucrid · Jan 20, 2021

the 2020 election

Polioliolio · Jan 20, 2021

Because they're so loud and annoying, whatever they do is offputting and whatever they associate themselves with feels tainted.

Deleted member 4461 · Jan 20, 2021

Alucrid said:
the 2020 election

HAH, okay, you get that one today :P

adj_noun · Jan 20, 2021

My heart.

Dalek · Jan 20, 2021

Alucrid said:
the 2020 election

Danby · Jan 20, 2021

Not everything is completely stolen. The ok symbol is still fine when it's outside of that context.

brinstar · Jan 20, 2021

Generally if a bunch of nazi-types are using something it's a lot easier to just avoid it rather than having to explain to people that you're not like that. That said Pepe, while still shitpost-y seems to have floated back into some form of neutrality. Those bearded nordic face memes were rapidly decontextualized from that zone. And recently a bunch of PoC wojak variants have been making chud types angry.

Ryuelli · Jan 20, 2021

I don't think the "ok" symbol was "stolen" by the alt-right as much as this forum seemingly thinks it once. I'd bet that the average person still just think of it as the "ok" symbol, and it's absolutely still used as that by a significant amount of people.

Tokyo_Funk · Jan 20, 2021

A babys smile.

Wait no, they'll find a way to stop that.

SteveWinwood · Jan 20, 2021

good ideas

Atom Heart Mother · Jan 20, 2021

Ryuelli said:
I don't think the "ok" symbol was "stolen" by the alt-right as much as this forum seemingly thinks it once. I'd bet that the average person still just think of it as the "ok" symbol, and it's absolutely still used as that by a significant amount of people.

yeah.. this forum kinda lives in a bubble and gets scared when any alt-right dumbass steals something. pepe itself floated back to being a funny frog because it's so widely used, I doubt most people who use twitch or browse the internet casually would know it's some alt-right meme.

Procheno · Jan 20, 2021

The ok symbol isn't stolen

Any normal person in the world will use it just fine because not everyone has alt-right or "proud boys" living in their mind rent free all day everyday

HardTimesFamilyPride · Jan 20, 2021

Caustic things are best left alone; they're corrosive.

Ryuelli said:
I don't think the "ok" symbol was "stolen" by the alt-right as much as this forum seemingly thinks it once. I'd bet that the average person still just think of it as the "ok" symbol, and it's absolutely still used as that by a significant amount of people.

The OK symbol was absolutely used by the alt-right, people didn't just "think it once"

Mariolee · Jan 20, 2021

"Fake news" was a mantra against Trump originally IIRC, but then Trump adopted it and used it against everything and now it will be historically associated with MAGAssholes.

III-V · Jan 20, 2021

Mariolee said:
"Fake news" was a mantra against Trump originally IIRC, but then Trump adopted it and used it against everything and now it will be historically associated with MAGAssholes.

This is correct. Trump managed to rebrand it.

Deleted member 24052 · Jan 20, 2021

Alucrid said:
the 2020 election

Came for this lol

wideface · Jan 20, 2021

I disagree with pretty much everything OP has said.

Psamtik · Jan 20, 2021

Alucrid said:
the 2020 election

Ryuelli · Jan 21, 2021

Yerba_Sutra said:
The OK symbol was absolutely used by the alt-right, people didn't just "think it once"

I didn't say it wasn't, but "used" is completely different from being "stolen". I'd say something something like that is only stolen if public consciousness associates it with whatever tried to adopt it (in this case, proud boys, the alt-right, etc...). That didn't end up happening (and with de-platforming, probably won't). Like I said, I'd bet that the average person would tell you it's "okay, gotcha, etc..." and not an alt-right symbol. The alt-right may be using it, but it's definitely not at the point where it's theirs.

Berordn · Jan 21, 2021

Ryuelli said:
I didn't say it wasn't, but "used" is completely different from being "stolen". I'd say something something like that is only stolen if public consciousness associates it with whatever tried to adopt it (in this case, proud boys, the alt-right, etc...). That didn't end up happening (and with de-platforming, probably won't). Like I said, I'd bet that the average person would tell you it's "okay, gotcha, etc..." and not an alt-right symbol. The alt-right may be using it, but it's definitely not at the point where it's theirs.

this was exactly the point of them using it though. it's an innocuous symbol and its usage started out as a hoax, but the joke managed to catch on so much that it actually became a recognized symbol of hate by the ADL

yes, in most cases someone using the okay sign is not going to be an endorsement of white supremacy, but the fact that you have to think about it at all and verify someone's history means they managed to steal it, at least for a time

HardTimesFamilyPride · Jan 21, 2021

Ryuelli said:
I didn't say it wasn't, but "used" is completely different from being "stolen". I'd say something something like that is only stolen if public consciousness associates it with whatever tried to adopt it (in this case, proud boys, the alt-right, etc...). That didn't end up happening (and with de-platforming, probably won't). Like I said, I'd bet that the average person would tell you it's "okay, gotcha, etc..." and not an alt-right symbol. The alt-right may be using it, but it's definitely not at the point where it's theirs.

Oh I gotcha. Yeah, as with most things the alt-right gets their hands on.

Thing is there are people here who move within social justice circles and when they catch wind of this kinda shit it doesn't take much effort to navigate around it; others watching usually just jump to their own conclusions about what's going on and then you get threads like this.

John Rabbit · Jan 21, 2021

Honestly who gives a shit about hand gestures and cartoon frogs when discussing left v. right?

Let's get some fucking stimulus checks up in here and some M4A and the Right can fuck off with whatever dumb internet shit they want.

Richiek · Jan 21, 2021

I'm still pissed that the alt-right corrupted Pepe the Frog. He was supposed to be a harmless cartoon figure used in the "Feels Good Man" gifs back in the day.

Kard8p3 · Jan 21, 2021

tbf the creator of pepe is fighting back at least.

and uhh

humor? empathy?

Ryuelli · Jan 21, 2021

Berordn said:
actually became a recognized symbol of hate by the ADL

So were bowl cuts, but I don't think the average person is going to associate those with hate as much as they are bad fashion. The okay symbol absolutely should be on the list because, as you said... it definitely can be a symbol of hate, but, again, I don't think it is for most people because, again, as you said, it's under the radar. You can only "verify someone's history" if you know what you're looking for in the first place. Context is also important. If they're throwing it up in random photos and it looks out of place, then, sure, that's weird and since you know what you're looking for, can look into them more. If they're throwing it up in a situation where they might be replacing "okay, gotcha, alright, etc..." with it? Then obviously that's probably fine.

The ADL itself even says "Use of the okay symbol in most contexts is entirely innocuous and harmless" on that very page you linked.

Berordn · Jan 21, 2021

Ryuelli said:
So were bowl cuts, but I don't think the average person is going to associate those with hate as much as they are bad fashion. The okay symbol absolutely should be on the list because, as you said... it definitely can be a symbol of hate, but, again, I don't think it is for most people because, again, as you said, it's under the radar. You can only "verify someone's history" if you know what you're looking for in the first place. Context is also important. If they're throwing it up in random photos and it looks out of place, then, sure, that's weird. If they're throwing it up in a situation where they might be replacing "okay, gotcha, alright, etc..." with it? Then obviously that's fine.

I mean the ADL itself even says "Use of the okay symbol in most contexts is entirely innocuous and harmless" on that very page you linked.

right, and that's entirely the point. there's very little that they use as a symbol that can't blend in. obviously most folks are never going to catch on, because that's the point, and that's how they worm their way into a family member's facebook or twitter timeline. pepe didn't just turn into an alt-right symbol overnight, it was a campaign of using him and working him into things so seamlessly that you almost couldn't tell where he became the banner they rally around. to say that they didn't manage to steal or appropriate these is somewhat disingenuous because their goal is to make it impossible for the average person to spot.

Ryuelli · Jan 21, 2021

Berordn said:
right, and that's entirely the point. there's very little that they use as a symbol that can't blend in. obviously most folks are never going to catch on, because that's the point, and that's how they worm their way into a family member's facebook or twitter timeline. pepe didn't just turn into an alt-right symbol overnight, it was a campaign of using him and working him into things so seamlessly that you almost couldn't tell where he became the banner they rally around. to say that they didn't manage to steal or appropriate these is somewhat disingenuous because their goal is to make it impossible for the average person to spot.

I think in that context then adopted is a better term than steal, because steal, at least in my mind, makes it entirely theirs.

Stopdoor · Jan 21, 2021

Seems to me like it's pretty easy to tell when the OK symbol is sketchy - seems to be a common thing to flash it in photos and video where it just doesn't make sense as "ok" context. It's not that subtle, tbh.

GamerJM · Jan 21, 2021

The word "female" being used as a noun for women has always been misogynist.

Deleted member 86891 · Jan 21, 2021

maybe it's just the circles I'm in but I see leftist people taking back alt-right stuff. like the leftists I know use pepes and say "based" and shit

Conal · Jan 21, 2021

My respect

KillLaCam · Jan 21, 2021

GamerJM said:
The word "female" being used as a noun for women has always been misogynist.

It could be misogynistic but not right winged though

aerach71 · Jan 21, 2021

KillLaCam said:
It could be misogynistic but not right winged though

Terfs are right wing

SturokBGD · Jan 21, 2021

I'd like to know who stole the ability to understand context from Americans because the OK symbol is absolutely not about white supremacy with the exception of when some people take photographs and need you to know they need a punch in the jaw.

Deleted member 2533 · Jan 21, 2021

Berordn said:
this was exactly the point of them using it though. it's an innocuous symbol and its usage started out as a hoax, but the joke managed to catch on so much that it actually became a recognized symbol of hate by the ADL

yes, in most cases someone using the okay sign is not going to be an endorsement of white supremacy, but the fact that you have to think about it at all and verify someone's history means they managed to steal it, at least for a time

This is going to be devastating for white guys playing pickup at the YMCA.

julia crawford · Jan 21, 2021

So can anyone else tbh.

SanTheSly · Jan 21, 2021

Depends on what's worth fighting for.

Other people are desperately trying to reclaim pepe but I'm personally cool with never using it again. It's just been forever tainted as the nazi frog meme for me.

I don't immediately assume anyone using pepes is a fascist, but I just don't feel comfortable with them on a personal level.

John Rabbit said:
Honestly who gives a shit about hand gestures and cartoon frogs when discussing left v. right?

Let's get some fucking stimulus checks up in here and some M4A and the Right can fuck off with whatever dumb internet shit they want.

Yeah, there are bigger issues to fight than whether or not I can use a specific meme or not.

The Albatross · Jan 21, 2021

Put another few things on the list... Telegram.

I had been a telegram user for years, my friends and I used it for our fantasy football chat rooms and other group chats. A lot of us are not on Facebook, so Facebook messenger and WhatsApp were off the table, and when I was researching them I was drawn to Telegram because it promised to never have ads and it was developed by a Russian dissident, so I thought.. Hey, may as well use that platform.

And then steadily the platform has basically become the new platform for the alt-right as they've been booted off other things. We still just use it for private chat, but it's one of those thing sI just didn't want to be associated with. So we jumped to Signal, which I know also has a lot of alt-rights on it, but it seems like less than Telegram by ratio of alt-right to normal people.

A friend of mine in our group chat was like "Yeah... I've gotta give up my punisher t-shirt too... I just thought it was a cool comic and shit and now that things been taken over."

I think the 'Don't Tread on Me' flag is awesome, not that I'm really into flags but of all of the revolutionary war flags that one is pretty bad ass, and ... again, that ones done. That one had beeen taken over by libertarian idiots for a while, but now it's squarely in the tea party camp.

Mariolee said:
"Fake news" was a mantra against Trump originally IIRC, but then Trump adopted it and used it against everything and now it will be historically associated with MAGAssholes.

yeah, I forgot about that.

Fake news was a phrase used in the early 2010s especially around Pro-Russian Ukranian separatists shooting down that Malaysian airlines flight, and then it expanded into 2014, 2015, and then eventually with the Trump campaign when bot armies ran fake stories... Particularly the one about the Pope endorsing Trump, which got hundreds of millions of shares/interactions, and then when the Papacy released a press release of ... well, no, we don't actually endorse Trump at all, that got like 25 shares. Trump eventually took over the phrase to describe ... all news.

Tokyo_Funk · Jan 21, 2021

I personally want to see them attempt to steal the sun. Just tell them the sun is a deep state agent coming for Trump and they'll try to attempt a coup on the photosphere.

Redcrayon · Jan 21, 2021

aerach71 said:
Terfs are right wing

In the U.K. we get them on either side of the line. The Guardian's comment pages are infested with them, as are various other talking heads who are lefties on pretty much any other topic. It's kinda rooted in an extension of concern trolling around the otherwise obviously laudable goal of safe spaces for women as the years have gone by. From some women's rights activists originally campaigning for crisis centres for women fleeing domestic violence perpetrated by male abusers, which was obviously progressive, to then later wanting to exclude trans women from those same spaces on the basis that, well, you can guess the bigoted, bullshit line they take. We also get the more bog-standard conservative terf wankery too, so there's no escape from it.

krazen · Jan 21, 2021

Ryuelli said:
I don't think the "ok" symbol was "stolen" by the alt-right as much as this forum seemingly thinks it once. I'd bet that the average person still just think of it as the "ok" symbol, and it's absolutely still used as that by a significant amount of people.

It is though.

The 'OK' Hand Gesture Is Now Listed As A Symbol Of Hate

The Anti-Defamation League says the gesture that traditionally signals "all is well" has been hijacked by the white power movement and is routinely used in racist memes and other online content.

www.npr.org

How the 'OK' hand gesture became a symbol of white supremacy

Gesture been used as positive symbol for centuries before being hijacked by alt-right

www.independent.co.uk

When the O.K. Sign Is No Longer O.K. (Published 2019)

Here is how a hand gesture long seen as innocuous was appropriated to signify “white power.”

www.nytimes.com

Like, Era has it's own quirks, but it's not something the forum was made up, lol. Like the numbers 88 are harmless, but it's not hard to find scenarios where immediately you would know it's connotation in that situation is a nazi one

Arjen · Jan 21, 2021

Well, apparantly the "left" stole ACAB, which still makes me pretty uncomfortable seeing it on here so much.

The Albatross · Jan 21, 2021

John Rabbit said:
Honestly who gives a shit about hand gestures and cartoon frogs when discussing left v. right?

Let's get some fucking stimulus checks up in here and some M4A and the Right can fuck off with whatever dumb internet shit they want.

Of course M4A and stimulus checks are more important. But that doesn't preclude us from discussing other things that are less important.

Deleted member 2533 · Jan 21, 2021

I haven't had a chance to watch this doc yet, but I want to. I think Pepe might be getting taken back. I certainly see less Pepe amongst the alt-right, it used to be everywhere, but it seems like Q replaced it.

The Albatross said:
Put another few things on the list... Telegram.

I had been a telegram user for years, my friends and I used it for our fantasy football chat rooms and other group chats. A lot of us are not on Facebook, so Facebook messenger and WhatsApp were off the table, and when I was researching them I was drawn to Telegram because it promised to never have ads and it was developed by a Russian dissident, so I thought.. Hey, may as well use that platform.

And then steadily the platform has basically become the new platform for the alt-right as they've been booted off other things. We still just use it for private chat, but it's one of those thing sI just didn't want to be associated with. So we jumped to Signal, which I know also has a lot of alt-rights on it, but it seems like less than Telegram by ratio of alt-right to normal people.

A friend of mine in our group chat was like "Yeah... I've gotta give up my punisher t-shirt too... I just thought it was a cool comic and shit and now that things been taken over."

I think the 'Don't Tread on Me' flag is awesome, not that I'm really into flags but of all of the revolutionary war flags that one is pretty bad ass, and ... again, that ones done. That one had beeen taken over by libertarian idiots for a while, but now it's squarely in the tea party camp.

Telegram/Signal are less community platforms than protocols. If you discovered that a bunch of alt-right message boards ran on XenForo, would that make you less likely to use resetera? I don't even know how Signal could boot alt-right people off their platform, it's just a direct messaging protocol. If two people have each others phone numbers and send each other encrypted texts that no one else can see, that's not a platform at all.

TortadeJamon · Jan 21, 2021

Yerba_Sutra said:
Caustic things are best left alone; they're corrosive.

The OK symbol was absolutely used by the alt-right, people didn't just "think it once"

There's a difference between a group using something and "owning" it in the public consciousness. There are legions of people out there who've never even heard of the okay sign thing. I didn't come across it myself until relatively late.

Jakten · Jan 21, 2021

Arjen said:
Well, apparantly the "left" stole ACAB, which still makes me pretty uncomfortable seeing it on here so much.

Seriously right? How the hell could the left steal something that's a universal truth anyways? ACAB for eveyone as far as I'm concerned. Here here! Let the right say ACAB!!!

Skunk · Jan 21, 2021

Vermillion said:
The thread about the word "female" made me think of an issue I've had for a long time: the Right can claim any and everything.

The OK symbol is now about white supremacy, Pepe is an alt-right symbol, and so on.

The left just kind of holds the L, too. Like "oh, I guess that's theirs and it's offensive now." And we never actually claim stuff ourselves.

So someone, explain to me... why?

Dunno, I thought the LGBT community taking the term Proud Boys on Twitter this year was fucking hilarious, so I wouldn't say liberals never do it.

fick · Jan 21, 2021

Because they're taking neutral words and giving them a dark tinge.

I'm not about to start screaming racial slurs until they begin to mean "haha the far right is dumb".

wollywinka · Jan 21, 2021

Lol @ first reply. Nailed it.

Is there anything the far right can't steal?

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