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Why does it have to end though. Why are people so eager to bury the series. Let's not act like the series doesn't have a lot of room for improvement and new ideas, Dai Gyakuten Saiban proved as much.
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Is there any kind of news for a new Ace Attorney game? It's been 4 years since AA6, 3 since DGS2. The longest wait in the 19 yrs series history.
- Thread starter Dreamboum
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Metal Gear is essentially just 2 protagonists Snake and Big Boss. Raiden was a purposful one-off who shares a 1/3rd of the game with Snake, and
MGSV should barely count
Visual novels aren't inherently a limited genre though (and AA isn't even a real VN, it's a puzzle/adventure game hybrid). Danganronpa sold incredible well with similar gameplay just within the past half decade.
I agree with the rest of your post. They haven't innovated on the Investigation segments since AA2. The trial gimmicks are hit miss; the Seances were pretty good in AA6, but the mood matrix is braindead. As they were then, the investigation tools like Luminol and the Metal Detector weren't all that meaningful. They would have to be reworked into core components of Investigations if you were to reintroduce them. Doing that and making the Investigations in-depth explorable 3D hubs is the direction the series should go.
AA6 did a good job balancing 2 protagonists with Apollo and Phoenix. Juggling 3 with those two + Athena is too much though, I agree.
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Wait, I have a new idea for the series. What if they think your assistant committed a crime?
Next game will have Marvin Grossberg and and Mia Fey on trial.
I think those are the only ones left, although they were 1 time affairs, hah.
I still can't agree with that comparison, they're just way too different a series. MGS is practically one of a kind. Few others have ever managed to continue on that long and AA has very much struggled the whole way through.
Personally I just don't have much interest in seeing Phoenix return. His main arc ended in T&T and any second act as a mentor figure was killed off with a vengeance in DD. AJ's 18 origin stories have all been resolved as well and anything remotely interesting about Athena was wrapped up in her first game. There's just not a lot of interesting material left with these characters, nor the supporting cast which they've failed to really expand upon or develop well in the sequel trilogy. Fresh start and fresh blood all around would give them ample means of crafting new stories, rather than Frankensteining some new things onto existing ones.
Added to this is the ever increasing stakes the sequel trilogy introduced. Phoenix and Co are globe trotting mega stars of the criminal justice world now. A return to a single attorney, down on their luck taking on mostly normal ass murder cases and not grappling with the very court system they're a part of, facing down palace coups and the fate of entire countries would be a welcome return to form.
I just don't see that happening if the keep Phoenix and co around. It's just going to get crazier and more flanderized.
I didn't say that it has to end or that I am eager to end it. I just said I'm okay with it ending. And based on my observations of Capcom, that's my guess as to the current state of the series. I am happy to be wrong if Capcom decides to continue it and has good ideas for it.
I'd imagine that we'll get a 4-5-6 collection in the near future. As for Ace Attorney 7, I do think it'll eventually happen. MM11's success should help ensure the future of AA projects from Capcom, even if they're mostly focused on AAA endeavors right now.
But yeah, I don't think Ace Attorney is dead. Hell, it's the only Capcom franchise beyond the 5 big dogs that has its own section in the official Capcom Discord.
But yeah, I don't think Ace Attorney is dead. Hell, it's the only Capcom franchise beyond the 5 big dogs that has its own section in the official Capcom Discord.
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It hadn't even crossed my mind for a moment that Ace Attorney might be dead until everyone started talking about it in this topic.
Of course there's going to be an Ace Attorney 7 at some point. Just because it's not a priority for Capcom at this exact moment doesn't really mean anything.
Of course there's going to be an Ace Attorney 7 at some point. Just because it's not a priority for Capcom at this exact moment doesn't really mean anything.
Last year I wrote an article about the stagnation of the series. I stand by most of what I said in there; if the series keeps clinging to Phoenix, Maya, and Edgeworth, it's hard to imagine it having a future. Heck, just a few days ago the Japanese AA site wrapped up a series of short skits written by Takumi focused on - well, Phoenix, Maya, Edgeworth, and the rest of the original trilogy cast.
One point I made in that article wasn't quite borne out though: the trilogy collection sold a bit better than I expected.
So where does that leave the series? I honestly have no idea. I'm surprised there was no AA456 announcement, and with Shunsuke Kodama leaving Capcom maybe they tapped the brakes on one. From current rumors about Capcom's upcoming lineup it doesn't sound like an AA is in the cards this fiscal year. But who knows - maybe at TGS this year we get an AA7 announcement for next year. Of course, I've been saying that since 2018...
As an aside, as much as I'd like an AA7 with a new perspective, that means a new writer/director as well - I'd rather Takumi/Yamazaki work on new IPs. And I do wonder if Takumi was attached to that rumored Dino Crisis project that was cancelled.
Oh, and one last thing - the last Takumi-written skit on the Japanese site called out that next year is the series' 20th anniversary. So hopefully they have something planned!
One point I made in that article wasn't quite borne out though: the trilogy collection sold a bit better than I expected.
So where does that leave the series? I honestly have no idea. I'm surprised there was no AA456 announcement, and with Shunsuke Kodama leaving Capcom maybe they tapped the brakes on one. From current rumors about Capcom's upcoming lineup it doesn't sound like an AA is in the cards this fiscal year. But who knows - maybe at TGS this year we get an AA7 announcement for next year. Of course, I've been saying that since 2018...
As an aside, as much as I'd like an AA7 with a new perspective, that means a new writer/director as well - I'd rather Takumi/Yamazaki work on new IPs. And I do wonder if Takumi was attached to that rumored Dino Crisis project that was cancelled.
Oh, and one last thing - the last Takumi-written skit on the Japanese site called out that next year is the series' 20th anniversary. So hopefully they have something planned!
It's been a while since I finished the game, and I don't remember this. What was the cliffhanger?
Look at Yakuza if you want another example of a story-based series not needing to compromise on its continuity to be successful. Those games didn't even become that popular in the West until there were already 7+ mainline games out.
Agree completely. He should have been purely mentor figure from AA4 onward, save for maybe the occasional hype moment. AA5 bringing him back as the main protagonist and reverting most of his development was a huge mistake. AA6 did the best it could given the circumstances, putting the spotlight back on Apollo and bringing some of Phoenix's AA4 personality back, but the damage was already done
Apollo's character still has room to go in new directions, especially considering the ending of AA6. Not to mention there's still the
Thalassa
The Khurain supporting cast is pretty good, but I agree otherwise. The thing with the franchise at this point is it has an insanely large entourage of side characters they can pull from. Given the size they don't inherently need to create a brand new cast to create interesting scenarios, they can just pluck from the existing lot and fit them into new roles. 6 did a good job balancing new characters and returnees.
There's definitely been some escalation of stakes, but it worked in context of the games. It inherently has to come back down a bit from AA6's craziness, and I don't see why Apollo/Athena can't be at the leads for that.
Phoenix should be treated as a fucking law deity at this point, he needs to take a step back.
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Last scene in this video (spoilers obviously)
AA6: Spirit of Justice Ending [Condensed]
Combined my favorite parts of the ending of Ace Attorney 6: Spirit of Justice into one video, including the DLC case ending. Phew...I don't know if there's e...
youtu.be
That's a great writeup. Phoenix absolutely needs to step out of the spotlight if the series is going to evolve. Him, Maya, and Edgeworth need to be side characters at most and be auxiliary to the next main story. AA6 felt like a step in the right direction with Apollo being given the spotlight in the end, but they aren't fully committed.
Takumi and Yamazaki should ideally be doing new IPs too, agree about that. Takuro Fuse or someone new should direct AA7. I wish Takumi was given same amount of prestige Capcom gives someone like Itsuno, give the man a team and let him create whatever he wants.
I think the Trilogy Collection has had really good legs throughout the past year from Western players. I've seen a bunch of streamers and PC/Switch owners pick it up based off word-of-mouth.
I wonder if AA7 could be that medium game Dusk Golem is talking about, but I don't want to get my hopes up. Better to just assume my favorite VN series is dead forever.
More likely it's Mega Man X9 considering the development time since MM11 and hints in the X Collection.
If Shu isn't on AA7 he's on a new IP again like when he did ghost trick. I guess we'll see. The medium size title sounds right to me though, as it'd likely be something that releases on all platforms like the collection did.
Watch the next game be a reboot of the first game, Mia still dies in the second case for some reason.
It's possible, but it seems like the consensus is that it's likely a smaller MH game for Switch (unless that's been recently debunked) or a new Megaman X.
Monster Hunter, even limited by Switch hardware, would still be a big game unless it's a cheaply-made cashgrab to capitalize on the Switch audience. But Capcom already did that with MHXX so I think MH Switch would be a fairly large effort.
That'd be nice too but I think MMX9 is more likely for next year
FWIW, I don't think the series is dead - they're still churning out merch and concerts and the like - but I wouldn't be surprised if an AA7 plan got scrapped and restarted, or if figuring out how to bring the series to HD platforms is taking longer than they expected.
I know people like to point to the end of AA6 as a "they have a clear jumping-off point!" but there was also an interview where they said they specifically wrote AA6 to leave as many possibilities open as they could.
They can go wherever with AA7 pretty much. The AA6 ending just means they need to resolve that specific plotpoint in some capacity. I guess they could do it off screen and mention it later, but it'd feel lazy considering how long they've built it up.
Don't need to resolve that plot point if Apollo and Trucy aren't in the next game [forehead]
Jokes aside, that was always a really weird note to end AA6 on - I guess they felt the need to address it given how much of that game was focused on Apollo's backstory, but it also felt like them writing a weirdly specific check during an otherwise fairly open-ended ending.
I think it's this mixed with the fact that it's jumping to HD now. I really wonder if Shu Takumi could be preparing another new IP like Ghost Trick back in the day...
I really want 4-6 remaster to release on Switch/PS4/PC, but no mention of it so I wonder if it will still happen. I've been replaying the trilogy on PC recently. One thing that sticks out to me is how difficult is it to get self defense in Japanese law system? There are some clear cases where it would have been a viable defense except maybe in Japanese law it is nearly impossible to use?
Yeah it was a weird note to end on. I'm glad they included it because it's been an unaddressed, dangling plot-thread for 2+ games now; its absence would've just made me think they'd forgotten about it. But with how much of 6-5 focused on Apollo's family, I'm not sure why they didn't just resolve it then. Only guess is they have (had?) specific plans for the story of AA7.
I'd rather them resolve it rather than pretend it doesn't exist, like the AA4 Jury System never being mentioned again. Just bad writing otherwise.
While SOJ was AMAZING and possibly the second best game in the series (after T&T), I do hope the franchise isn't dead. The basic structure of the series is strong enough to continue nigh-on indefinitely a la Detective Conan. It's a lawyer-detective anthology series that manages to tie several cases together each time and deliver great twists. That's endlessly re-iterable, providing the writing/plotting talent is there. And moreover, there just isn't that much good interactive Detective fiction in gaming for this franchise to go away. I mean, right now, besides AA, we've got whatever Too Kyo Games makes, whatever random indie studio X makes, Frogwares output (although supposedly Sinking City sucked) and...what?
For AA7 they'd probably need to up the ante a little to make something for an HD portable and current-gen consoles. Maybe they could include the free-roaming investigation sections from AAI but expand them into fully 3D sections, while keeping the courtroom sections the same.
AA2 isn't as well regarded, except for Case 4. AA3 is top tier, one of the best (personally tied with AA6).
If Capcom have interest in revitalizing the IP for the next generation, they should collab with Nintendo to put Phoenix in Smash to introduce the character to people who might not know what Ace Attorney is about. Then work together on a Switch-exclusive soft reboot with a bold new art direction that's eye-catching which is in continuity with the previous games for long-standing fans but which can very easily be one's first Ace Attorney game. Bring the mechanics back to basics while also trying a couple new things to mix it up. Give the game a clear, engaging rivalry between Phoenix and someone else that can rival that of Edgeworth (but include Edgeworth). Don't 'Americanize' the dialogue but get rid of the backwards-facing gender stuff that plagues the original three games. Make the story most like Trials and Tribulations, where you've got bespoke trials but which come together in a cohesive and satisfying manner by the end. Make sure the core mysteries are intriguing and unique. Try stuff that's not just people dying! Don't be afraid to get weird with it, but keep coherence in mind. I think AA can be saved but it will take fresh eyes and old hats combined to make it work today.
It definitely seemed like they had big plans when they announced that the series was going to go multiplat with the trilogy. I was pretty surprised to see nothing new that year, and nothing at all the following, and I wonder whether they, as others have said in this thread, had to reboot.
I think what keeps this franchise from catching on is that it comes across as too much of a convoluted in-joke, which is ironically a big reason why it caught on... at all. But it's been quite a few years since those earlier forum days. I also believe many people fell off after the original trilogy. Ace Attorney is niche and now also a commitment. Solutions to that could include, say, leveraging the relationship with Nintendo, which has worked quite a bit for Square's Switch titles (but now AA has gone multiplat). The Switch certainly presents, for every franchise, an opportunity for a fresh start, but that opportunity fades. People will buy-in to what Nintendo is selling, if Nintendo is who's selling it.
The more challenging question is the cast. Do those outside of the core group buying/debating every entry want more from (or their first taste of) Phoenix, more of the first trilogy? Or is it time for a completely fresh break? Do people who have never played want to enter and understand an existing ethos, or a new one? The Yakuza series has really grown in the west over the last few years. The mix of Yakuza Zero's obvious and unique appeal plus it truly being the "one you can start with" as a prequel made for the perfect launching pad for the new class of Yakuza fans. I think that's a reasonable comparison even if VN's are niche, as it sold itself off its style and humour.
Ace Attorney's rhythm, style, and energy makes it a strong reference point for our Gaming Community. It can absolutely continue.
I think what keeps this franchise from catching on is that it comes across as too much of a convoluted in-joke, which is ironically a big reason why it caught on... at all. But it's been quite a few years since those earlier forum days. I also believe many people fell off after the original trilogy. Ace Attorney is niche and now also a commitment. Solutions to that could include, say, leveraging the relationship with Nintendo, which has worked quite a bit for Square's Switch titles (but now AA has gone multiplat). The Switch certainly presents, for every franchise, an opportunity for a fresh start, but that opportunity fades. People will buy-in to what Nintendo is selling, if Nintendo is who's selling it.
The more challenging question is the cast. Do those outside of the core group buying/debating every entry want more from (or their first taste of) Phoenix, more of the first trilogy? Or is it time for a completely fresh break? Do people who have never played want to enter and understand an existing ethos, or a new one? The Yakuza series has really grown in the west over the last few years. The mix of Yakuza Zero's obvious and unique appeal plus it truly being the "one you can start with" as a prequel made for the perfect launching pad for the new class of Yakuza fans. I think that's a reasonable comparison even if VN's are niche, as it sold itself off its style and humour.
Ace Attorney's rhythm, style, and energy makes it a strong reference point for our Gaming Community. It can absolutely continue.
Three is the most popular game in the series, and the set works quite well as a trilogy.
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AA1 and AA3 are the best in the trilogy but the entire trilogy is one continuous story. You should play the trilogy back-to-back.
I'm sure an Ace Attorney 7 (or whatever) is in development. It's a fairly significant merchandising brand for them.
That said, I personally haven't enjoyed an Ace Attorney game since 4. Both 5 and 6 felt stale, and like they were leaning into the same old jokes and characters. The mysteries weren't as good, the puns were a little too outrageous/unsubtle to be funny any more, and they don't let their characters grow.
If/when AA7 does happen, I hope they shake things up in a big way. (That said, I'm not expecting them to.)
That said, I personally haven't enjoyed an Ace Attorney game since 4. Both 5 and 6 felt stale, and like they were leaning into the same old jokes and characters. The mysteries weren't as good, the puns were a little too outrageous/unsubtle to be funny any more, and they don't let their characters grow.
If/when AA7 does happen, I hope they shake things up in a big way. (That said, I'm not expecting them to.)
I've always been one that felt like the fan reaction against AA4 was undeserved and that Takumi had the right idea in trying to shift the focus away from Phoenix and focus on a new protagonist in Apollo, and I think the series has struggled ever since then being pulled in multiple directions, trying to introduce new things without flat-out dropping what was previously established. Apollo reading others' body language made for an interesting mechanic and a natural progression on the "play witnesses against themselves and bluff your way to victory" nature of the series in general, but rather than expanding on that, they pulled back and simplified it in the later games and it made it rather boring as a result. Similarly, while not without problems I found the Mood Matrix as a concept to be pretty interesting, but that too became oversimplified in the following game, in order to make room for the Seances as the new mechanic du jour.
At this point, I do think if a new entry in the series is made, it's going to need to shed off some of its current narrative weight and establish a new identity. To me that either means giving the series a chance at a completely fresh start, with a new protagonist and little to no mention of what came before, or taking one of the three attorneys we currently have and focusing on them more directly, whether that be Phoenix continuing his wild adventures with weird new legal systems, or Athena finally coming into her own as an attorney without having Phoenix or Apollo backing her up. There's still some room for Athena in particular to have a game that provides more backstory, since it was established in DD that she was training in law abroad before Phoenix scouted her. DD covered the backstory of her early childhood and family situation, but there's some room to mine into from her learning days, and perhaps going there for some reason would provide the game's designers a reason to implement new trial proceedings.
Whatever they do I sure hope the series isn't actually dead, though I won't rule out the option. Capcom may not see the series as having enough potential to hit it big, nor is it the sort of thing that can be easily monetized, so from a "big publisher" standpoint it doesn't offer much to get excited about beyond some brand diversity.
At this point, I do think if a new entry in the series is made, it's going to need to shed off some of its current narrative weight and establish a new identity. To me that either means giving the series a chance at a completely fresh start, with a new protagonist and little to no mention of what came before, or taking one of the three attorneys we currently have and focusing on them more directly, whether that be Phoenix continuing his wild adventures with weird new legal systems, or Athena finally coming into her own as an attorney without having Phoenix or Apollo backing her up. There's still some room for Athena in particular to have a game that provides more backstory, since it was established in DD that she was training in law abroad before Phoenix scouted her. DD covered the backstory of her early childhood and family situation, but there's some room to mine into from her learning days, and perhaps going there for some reason would provide the game's designers a reason to implement new trial proceedings.
Whatever they do I sure hope the series isn't actually dead, though I won't rule out the option. Capcom may not see the series as having enough potential to hit it big, nor is it the sort of thing that can be easily monetized, so from a "big publisher" standpoint it doesn't offer much to get excited about beyond some brand diversity.
We got the original trilogy HD remaster and that's all I care about really.
4 was...okay. I hate what they did to Phoenix. 5 was pretty mediocre up until case 4, then shit gets absolutely bonkers. I never finished 6.
I did play ME1 and thought it was really good, such a shame we never got a western port of the sequel. I think that ship has sailed, unfortunately.
4 was...okay. I hate what they did to Phoenix. 5 was pretty mediocre up until case 4, then shit gets absolutely bonkers. I never finished 6.
I did play ME1 and thought it was really good, such a shame we never got a western port of the sequel. I think that ship has sailed, unfortunately.
People are really jumping the gun declaring the series end. The series has 11 original games and the recently released compilations are selling well and introducing the series to new eyes. Ace Attorney might be taking a break, but Capcom will put out a new game sooner or later. This isn't Konami we're talking about here.
I stand by that AA4 was awful. Magic panties? Destroying your main character? Stupid sidekick? Bad new trial gimmick? Yeah, no thanks.
AA5 (and maybe 4?) came across as uninspired and dumbed down compared to the originally trilogy. I missed the pixel hunts in the first three during investigations.
AA6 felt like a return to form, but unfortunately, carried some of the dumbed down, easy gameplay mechanics over from AA5 that made the gameplay oversimplified. It showed promise that the series hadn't lost its touch, however, and I'd love to see where the team goes next, whether with AA or something new.
AA5 (and maybe 4?) came across as uninspired and dumbed down compared to the originally trilogy. I missed the pixel hunts in the first three during investigations.
AA6 felt like a return to form, but unfortunately, carried some of the dumbed down, easy gameplay mechanics over from AA5 that made the gameplay oversimplified. It showed promise that the series hadn't lost its touch, however, and I'd love to see where the team goes next, whether with AA or something new.
I wouldnt be opposed for another entry but I have no idea what they would realistically do. I think 4 damaged the series forever on a narrative scale because it just feels like a constant fumble that they're trying to recover. 5 and 6 both brought back legacy characters to further offset the now-strange slate wiping of AA4. I don't think they would every try again with an approach like that, with or without Takumi.
Maybe the 7th game should focus on the inevitable retirement of Phoenix? It would be nice if they could give him some decent closure and find a way to actually write him out without a lame blindside twist
Maybe the 7th game should focus on the inevitable retirement of Phoenix? It would be nice if they could give him some decent closure and find a way to actually write him out without a lame blindside twist
Capcom has continued to invest in the IP so the franchise is clearly not dead. But it's unknown what currently plans are.
Capcom did state they were developing an Ace Attorney game for Switch toward the end of 2017, but this has obviously not occurred (development hell? cancelled?)
Capcom did state they were developing an Ace Attorney game for Switch toward the end of 2017, but this has obviously not occurred (development hell? cancelled?)
