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Is there any franchise with 5 or more mainline entries that doesn't have a 'black sheep' game?
- Thread starter Discontent
- Start date
Virtua Fighter 3 is the black sheep. VF4 is basically a second sequel to VF2 instead.
The same is pretty much true for Street Fighter 3, where Street Fighter 4 is basically another Street Fighter 2 sequel to recapture its glory.
Both SFIII and recently VF3 would go on to be more appreciated for their unique qualities, but both were definitely looked at as misteps throughout their life.
yakuza is the best answer here
you're both right, 4 is a huge drop in terms of story, boss fights, and so much more than the peak of 3 had. 5 was of course better, but way more controversial - oddly for changes the series took since peace walker, while the fact that it's clearly unfinished (but still better than 4, again) doesn't seem to bother folks as much?
you're both right, 4 is a huge drop in terms of story, boss fights, and so much more than the peak of 3 had. 5 was of course better, but way more controversial - oddly for changes the series took since peace walker, while the fact that it's clearly unfinished (but still better than 4, again) doesn't seem to bother folks as much?
Although 7 is considerably worse than other entries, i'd say 2 is the absolute worst for sure. What a piece of shit game.
Both excellent, heavily acclaimed games. Yeah, we have not forgotten about them. MGS4 is considered to be one of the best and most iconic games of its generation and voted GOTY 3 times by this community. And it's one of the most requested Remasters.
Complaints by loud minorities are not considered here.
NFL 2K series was pretty consistent, and really getting better when EA swooped in for the NFL license.
Is that a common opinion? I guess I assumed that DQ7 was about as well liked as any other entry in the series. That is to say, some people really like it (I include myself in that number); some people like it less well; and a few put it toward or at the bottom of the pile. I never got much of a black sheep vibe in discussions about it here or at the old place. Of course I'm totally ignorant about how Japan talks about DQ7, but it was a record seller at the time.
Ascension 100% and not just because the formula had grown stale. They actively made regressive changes to the combat system that made it the worst in the whole series which was such a disappointment at the time given 2 and 3 basically perfected it. Instead of building and expanding on what they had they made it harder to do what was already there before. Favorite series of all time but will never replay it again.
Unwound Future also made me sob so we're in that together.
It's insane a game with that utterly ridiculous a twist and overall plot line could still still pull off that emotional gut punch.
I don't recall people calling it the peak? The series is weird because the QOL, content, and puzzles often felt like they were improving with each entry while the actual plot tended to get more absurd and hard to take seriously, so it kinda evened out.
im pretty sure japan loves dq7. I think the 3ds remake pretty much fixed everything that was wrong with the original tho
I always thought the general consensus was that it was too long for its own good. It's a really long game that feels that way too. Releasing so late didn't help its reception either, it looked very ugly even compared to most later PS1 RPGs, plus it came out just a couple of months before FFX in NA.
Definitely classic Mega Man.
Opinions vary on which one's the best, but there's no controversial game among them.
Opinions vary on which one's the best, but there's no controversial game among them.
Great pick, all of the numbered Civ games are excellent. Beyond Earth and Revolution are mediocre but they aren't mainline entries.
God of war ascension sucks and three despite being quite the spectacle is greatly inferior to the second game in terms of gameplay.
My thoughts exactly. The mainline games are solid at worst.
I'd love to hear some die-hard Breath of Fire fans chime in.
I've only played III, IV, and Dragon Quarter, and all three are pretty solid. Dragon Quarter sticks out as the obvious candidate for being the black sheep, but I thought it was well received, despite being a huge departure. How are BoF I and II generally ranked?
And for the sake of argument, let's just ignore this travesty:
I've only played III, IV, and Dragon Quarter, and all three are pretty solid. Dragon Quarter sticks out as the obvious candidate for being the black sheep, but I thought it was well received, despite being a huge departure. How are BoF I and II generally ranked?
And for the sake of argument, let's just ignore this travesty:
Regarding DQ7, I think DQ6 is actually the more polarizing game in general from my observations. DQ7 is difficult to get into and I don't recommend it as one's first DQ game but it is still a strong title when you can overlook the pacing -- I usually don't see too much hate for it.
Also, back then it was suddenly REALLY HARD to care about a 2D platformers back when Mario 64 came out that same year and was one of the most mind blowing games of the entire decade. Even if the game was really good (haven't played it much myself), it couldn't be more poorly timed.
Far Cry 2 is the black sheep or Far Cry 1 even (given how the series has been 3 onward)
Apollo Justice is definitely the black sheep, no thanks to hobo Phoenix, the Apollo-Trucy siblings plot and the Perry Mason jury system. It's the definition a game that changes everything and introduces a crapload of new stuff, but barely elaborates on any of it, leading to a game that's not even bad, but confusing and out there.
Nowadays, it feels like a strange intermission between the old trilogy and modern AA. It doesn't really fit either in terms of design.
You also have a few people that shit on Justice For All and Dual Destinies, but they don't really go off the rails the same way AJ does and are otherwise consistent in terms of tone and gameplay to their "relatives".
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8 was absolutely seen as a black sheep. That game had EXTREMELY loud detractors for years and years and years.
And if we only count what the US got for its first 5 FF games of FF1, FF Mystic Quest, FF4, FF6 and FF7, Mystic Quest is the clear black sheep there too.
I mean everyone agrees that 4 is the worst as it really sucked to finish it three times to get everything, like you needed to do that in order to get the upgraded versions of the enemy chips (which you could easily do in a single playthrough in the previous games) and to fully unlock the main feature (Soul Unison)
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I think Apollo Justice is better than the new ones, despite it having the issues you mentioned above. It's been a while since I've played DD, but it definitely had some weird plot contrivances too. I think the thing that y killed it most was how much they nerfed the investigation phases to the point that they just gave you a checklist of things to do, completely taking away the sensation of actually investigating.
I think Dark Souls II would definitely be considered the black sheep in that list. Still a good game in its own right, though.
Is everyone pretending Yakuza dead souls doesn't exists?
I agree with GoW ascension is fine. Uncharted and infamous too if you count thr spinoffs.
I agree with GoW ascension is fine. Uncharted and infamous too if you count thr spinoffs.
Virtua Fighter has got 5 main entries (more if you count revisions and spin-offs) and each one of them was top notch when it came out. The more experimental one was VF3, it introduced a dodge button and sloped terrains, but it was cutting edge when it came out in 1996.
I'd love to hear some die-hard Breath of Fire fans chime in.
I've only played III, IV, and Dragon Quarter, and all three are pretty solid. Dragon Quarter sticks out as the obvious candidate for being the black sheep, but I thought it was well received, despite being a huge departure. How are BoF I and II generally ranked?
And for the sake of argument, let's just ignore this travesty:
The general opinion seems to be that BoF1 is mediocre, BoF2 is pretty good but had some localization problems, BoF3 & 4 are both great, and people either love BoF:DQ and think it's one of the best games of all-time or hate it with not many opinions in between.
I can see why people might not like it, but I wouldn't really classify that as "black sheep". More like the OG that's since been refined, and still respected since it's the OG (even if you don't like it).
It's been at least a decade since I played it but I remember being absolutely infuriated with a case that involved clowns / the circus lol, there was a plot twist that involved a massive leap of logic so severe that I almost quite the franchise altogether. Thankfully I didn't because the closing case of Justice for All is one of my favourites in the series!
As someone with no nostalgia for any of them, played the trilogy for the first time at the end of last year and I found 3 to be much better than 2 to be honest
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It has 8.8 userscore which I don't think would have happened if it were a black sheep.
I also looked for polls and MGS2 tops many of them.
I think it could be polarising within certain enthusiast communities, but I don't think it can be defined as one overall.
That or I would say if... is basically the precursor to the Persona series rather than what SMT 1 and 2 were. This isn't a bad thing, just different.
Strange Journey was also pretty different with it's setting not even being Tokyo.
And then there's NINE.... We don't talk about NINE.
"Black Sheep" doesn't necessarily mean "bad" either. Every mainline SMT, including Apocalypse, are good games, but some are just wildly different. Mario 2/USA is a "black sheep", but people generally think of it as a good game.
Are you forgetting that there is a certain game called Street Fighter 1 that is TRASH TIER level.
SF1 is not only a black sheep, it is an abomination.