Remember when, after Dead Souls flopped, Sega thought that the western popularity of the frachise was dead, and it took many years and a sony intervention to get them to release Yakuza 5 (in a digital format only)
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Is there any franchise with 5 or more mainline entries that doesn't have a 'black sheep' game?
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Remember when, after Dead Souls flopped, Sega thought that the western popularity of the frachise was dead, and it took many years and a sony intervention to get them to release Yakuza 5 (in a digital format only)
Surprisingly enough, if you keep things to only the mainline games in the Classic series I think Mega Man qualifies here. There are the popular favorites (2, 3, 9) and some commonly-cited lower points in the series (1, 5, 8), but none are so widely disliked that I'd consider any of them "black sheep."
This utterly falls apart the second you introduce any other Mega Man series with five or more games in it, though, and also doesn't hold up if you open things up to non-mainline Classic games (Rockman World 2/Mega Man II for Game Boy and the Game Gear version of Mega Man, for example, are definitely black sheep).
Also, Mega Man 5 is amazing and definitely not a low point of the series, but that's a discussion for a different thread. :P
This utterly falls apart the second you introduce any other Mega Man series with five or more games in it, though, and also doesn't hold up if you open things up to non-mainline Classic games (Rockman World 2/Mega Man II for Game Boy and the Game Gear version of Mega Man, for example, are definitely black sheep).
Also, Mega Man 5 is amazing and definitely not a low point of the series, but that's a discussion for a different thread. :P
To my knowledge, there isn't a mainline Ratchet & Clank game that people point to as "the bad one". I guess I've seen hate for the movie tie in, but even then that seems to be a minority opinion based on the elements borrowed from the movie
I usually see either DKC3 talked about as "the bad one" by a lot of people, or depending on who you talk to, DK64
I usually see either DKC3 talked about as "the bad one" by a lot of people, or depending on who you talk to, DK64
I think people collectively think of the arcade games together since they're the same mechanically, just with different fighters. Super Punch Out is probably the odd man out though, since while it is more similar to the arcade games, it kind of has an off feel since it's compared to the more popular NES Punch Out and is mostly ignored by all future media aside from a few fighters in the Wii game.
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Yes that's what I thought. I agree it's not fair calling it a black sheep for aging badly.
That is an amazing game. Not as good as the others but far from a black sheep.
I think this is actually a really common sentiment.
I think a lot of people agree with either "The odd numbered entries are great" or "the even numbered entries are the best".
(i personally think MGS1,3, and 5 are amazing and 2 and 4 are not good).
MK64 is also loads better than Double Dash, so that helps too.
Probably Ace Attorney, even counting the Miles spinoffs and the Dai Gyakuten ones
the most divisive one seems to be Dual Destinies, but i mostly see fond memories of it
the most divisive one seems to be Dual Destinies, but i mostly see fond memories of it
My first thought when reading the thread title was Yakuza, but then I remembered Dead Souls. If you're just counting main entries then I think it's still valid though. GTA too? there's favourites but I don't think there's a black sheep.
I'm confident Forza Horizon will join the club when the next entry hits, as will Streets of Rage if the same people who did 4 so a fifth entry.
I'm confident Forza Horizon will join the club when the next entry hits, as will Streets of Rage if the same people who did 4 so a fifth entry.
You could even go as far as to say that 64 helped shape Mario Kart's modern identity, and I think that kinda disqualifies it from being a black sheep by default. The games today are more about what 64 started than Super.
No.
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I think Dead Souls is a spinoff so Yakuza is a good choice. I'd say GTA too but I can't help but feel IV gets shitted on the most.
It may not be a bad game but it still absolutely the odd one out of the GoW games.
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Agreed. It's importance to Mario Kart and even Kart Racers in general can't be overstated.
Mega Man Classic seems like a good pick. Some entries are more popular than others but I've never been aware of a true black sheep in the line-up.
Professor Layton 'might' qualify too. Games 2-6 are all various degrees of 'not as good as Curious Village' but I don't recall any of them being singled out.
The black sheep of mainline Pokemon alters constantly as people who grew up with each entry get older. I'd say it's Ruby/Sapphire because there's too much water but nowadays that'll get me flayed alive. So it's debatable if there really is a black sheep at all.
Professor Layton 'might' qualify too. Games 2-6 are all various degrees of 'not as good as Curious Village' but I don't recall any of them being singled out.
The black sheep of mainline Pokemon alters constantly as people who grew up with each entry get older. I'd say it's Ruby/Sapphire because there's too much water but nowadays that'll get me flayed alive. So it's debatable if there really is a black sheep at all.
yeah that's how I am. I'm not super obsessed with the franchise, but LOVED MGS1, like one of my favorite games of all time. It helps that it was also one of the first games that felt "adult" for me when I was a teenager playing it. I remember my dad half-paying attention in the other room and walking in to watch the cut scenes with me and him saying, like "wow, this is like a movie," and so as a ~14 year old that felt pretty cool.
Was disappointed by MGS2. It's actually one of the first games I was mega hyped for that I felt disappointed by, and I didn't really even care about the Raiden thing, I just thought thought it was a slog going back and forth in the same areas and I lost interest in the game. I didn't end up beating it until about ~10 years later in some remake, going back and finally playing it through.
I was pleasantly surprissed by MGS3 having been disappointed by 2, really enjoyed it. And then, again, disappointed by 4 having really enjoyed 3. I haven't played MGS5 yet for more than just the intro, so ... probably have to dive in if I may be one of the 1/3/5 people.
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This is probably the best answer yet.
Even Jungle Beats is great.
Question, do folks consider the FFVII compilation to be this for the FF franchise? Dirge of Cerberus to me is an epic game. I just cannot dislike it. but i get a sense that folks think of it this way.
Agreed. Every game is either a platformer of consistent quality, or a weirdo experiment. Some of the experiments don't quite work, and some of the platformers are better than others, but I wouldn't say there's a black sheep.
Didn't vanilla SF3 basically kill the series by being less popular than Alpha and being struggle city to port to modern consoles (aside from DC)?
Dragon Quest main series is quality.
Yakuza main series is quality, but I guess that Dead Souls disqualifies this (even if it isn't a mainline game).
I don't know if the SaGa series has a black cheep, but I like all the games.
God of War Ascension might be seen as a black cheep, but I really liked it.
Yakuza main series is quality, but I guess that Dead Souls disqualifies this (even if it isn't a mainline game).
I don't know if the SaGa series has a black cheep, but I like all the games.
God of War Ascension might be seen as a black cheep, but I really liked it.
They are, though I think 3 and Returns get some crap to various degree.
I thought the PSP games counted as spinoffs tbh (they weren't made by Insomniac and they were simplified versions of the formula made to work on handheld)
As for Deadlocked, I honestly forgot about it lmao
It is. In fact I have a very unpopular opinion in feeling it's better than 2016.
A lot of people think Amazing Mirror is a weird black sheep game
I couldn't agree more. Every splinter cell game was amazing and blacklist was just as good as it could get. I did miss the original voice for Sam but it wasn't enough to run a perfect stealth game.
Nah Ninja Gaiden 2 NES is often regarded as the best, but NG3 NES has serious issues. Definitely a black sheep.
I'd put forward Ridge Racer. All games through Ridge 7 were well regarded. Even a perhaps lesser entry like Ridge 6 is still fine, certainly nothing that upset too many people.
Yakuza absolutely has its black sheep, even if you discount Dead Souls/of the End. Depending on who you talk to, Yakuza 1/Kiwami, Yakuza 3, Yakuza 5, Yakuza 6 and Yakuza 7 all have their detractors. I'd say there's even near-universal agreement about Kiwami, though maybe that's not fair because the franchise wouldn't exist if not for that first game.
Persona 1 is a really great ambitious and exploratory title, especially for it's time. Persona 2 IS and EP are top tier JRPGs.
While there's no clear black sheep in the franchise, Persona 5 stands out to me. It's the only one that doesn't even attempt to say or do anything interesting with it's narrative. Which is antithetical to why I enjoy the series.
I dislike this sentence and everytime it is repeated. It's not even like Persona 3 is unidentifiable from it's predecessors to create such a divide. It's like saying Zelda started with A Link to the Past or Final Fantasy started with 7.
The first three games (1/2 part 1 and 2) are great, even if they are a bit dated in some ways.
Genres that call for little variation among titles probably have a ton. Racing games popular enough to have 5+ entries will probably qualify. I don't play them, but I assume stuff like Forza, Grand Turismo, Sega Rally, etc might all be consistent.
Same with rail shooters. House of the Dead and Time Crisis don't really have any black sheep as far as I know.
Puzzle games would probably count too if any had more than 5 entries. Only ones I know of are Puyo and Tetris. Puyo might count, but there are tons of weird/bad Tetris games.
Sakura Wars might be another one depending on how you feel about the new one.
Same with rail shooters. House of the Dead and Time Crisis don't really have any black sheep as far as I know.
Puzzle games would probably count too if any had more than 5 entries. Only ones I know of are Puyo and Tetris. Puyo might count, but there are tons of weird/bad Tetris games.
Sakura Wars might be another one depending on how you feel about the new one.
Ace Attorney 2 is absolutely treated as the black sheep of the original trilogy, and 4 has seen this treatment as well.
Isn't Mega Man & Bass kinda disliked? Although it's not numbered it does look very main-liney to me.
2 wasn't very well liked at the time of its release. UT2003 is also very disliked, hence the quick follow-up with UT2004.
I feel like Gaiden tried a lot of stuffs that were brought back by the Sacred Stone so I feel like it's not reaaaaaaaaaaaaally the black sheep but then again SMB2 and Zelda 2 are considered black sheeps when both are hugely popular games that were highly sought out even 10 years after release so...
Fates is after Awakening so...
People saying MGS need to replay 4 because while it is beautiful, it's a beautiful train wreck.