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MP!

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,198
Las Vegas
My LG OLED
Basically looks like those before/after videos for mclassic on my TV...
I mean the after version... It must have some killer upscaling cause my games look great
Except the menu... the menu is pixelated... and ... witcher is ... blurry... BUT everything else looks great.
 

Fatoy

Member
Mar 13, 2019
7,219
Your 4K TV should be able to scale 1080p content fairly well, but as people have pointed out, the Switch home screen is going to look a bit rough whatever you do, because it's lower res.
 
OP
OP
WarpSpeedMolasses
Oct 25, 2017
3,396
I don't have your TV, but I'm pretty sure they can be saved to each input instead of being for the TV overall.

The Switch looks fine on my TV (Sony X900) outside of its 720p home screen.
Pro tip, make sure "just scan" or fit to screen is turned on.

on my LG the TV automatically overscans the 1080p input and it looks monstrous, especially on the menu screen which is already low res
Ahhh, so that's why the home screen looks hideous but games look alright

That was bothering me so much, thanks for the explanation

Oh jeez thanks. I was using the home menu as a barometer, and had no idea it only runs at 720p by default.

That's so bizarre considering how there's nothing dynamic or interesting about the menu.
 

ohlawd

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,307
Phantagrande
I think I'm going crazy. feel like I read an older thread saying you should use limited RGB instead of ull for your Switch and make sure the settings on both console and TV matched
 

Spacejaws

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,780
Scotland
I think I'm going crazy. feel like I read an older thread saying you should use limited RGB instead of ull for your Switch and make sure the settings on both console and TV matched
I had to do this because Switch on full with dark or bright scenes was kicking in the TV's HDR mode and just outputting....black. Got a new TV now but it really soured me on the Switch for a but because it looked really washed out and flat on limited no matter what settings I tried yet the PS4 looked and played fine in full even without HDR stuff.
 

Hugare

Banned
Aug 31, 2018
1,853
Oh jeez thanks. I was using the home menu as a barometer, and had no idea it only runs at 720p by default.

That's so bizarre considering how there's nothing dynamic or interesting about the menu.
Making the homescreen render at 720p while games runs at higher resolutions ...

Oh Nintendo ...

I was also using it as a barometer, and getting very confused if I was doing something wrong

Why they dont change the resolution when docked like the games? Who knows
 

exodus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,942
Depends entirely on the TV.

The issue is that most TVs don't do integer scaling for 1080p -> 4K. They apply a filter over the image while upscaling, which makes no sense at all. PC mode can fix this for some TVs, thankfully.

I have no idea why TV manufacturers have taken this approach.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,765
On my Sony X900E I can do a perfect integer scale of 1080p by setting it to graphics mode. Every 1080p pixel becomes 4 4K pixels, and it looks great.

Sounds like people have given you good advice already, but I figured I'd mention it for those who might have Sony TVs. Not sure if they all do it that way though.
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,678
Hugare said:
Why they dont change the resolution when docked like the games? Who knows

It's all 2D and needs to run in the background of a game, so presumably they didn't want to take any more memory away from games.
 

tenderbrew

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,807
i have a 4k tv since the thing came out and it looks fine

think you need to calibrate or something
 
Nov 23, 2017
4,302
It's basically whatever you're used to. If you're only used to gaming in 1080p then you'll be mostly happy with Switch. If you're used to playing CB4k etc resolutions on PS4 Pro then it'll feel like a real step back. And if you're used to playing everything at native 4k/60+ on a 2080Ti then even the Pro looks like a slideshow of a pool of vaseline.

Just best to ensure the TV isn't making anything worse. 1080p Switch games are serviceable on my C9 OLED, but I can only really tolerate the first party stuff because the simple and clean art lends itself well to lower resolutions. I mostly use Switch handheld unless I'm playing Ring Fit though.
What extreme hyperbole. I don't know what ps4 pro you have but it's broken
 

SomaXD

Member
Oct 27, 2017
786
Just make sure sharpness as as low as it can go, sharpening/edge enhancement is hellish on such low res edges

But also make sure that softening isnt maxxed... my parents tv has a middle 0 option, going up increases sharpness, going negative increases softness... so make sure you tv option is either center 0 or 0 sharp and 0 soft.
 

shinobi602

Verified
Oct 24, 2017
8,320
Low resolutions don't look that great upscaled on a big 4K TV. Switch games are tolerable on my KS8000 but don't go expecting a super crisp image...
 

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,988
Just make sure sharpness as as low as it can go, sharpening/edge enhancement is hellish on such low res edges
I used to firmly stick to the "no processing" mindset, but as display processing has improved, as display resolutions have increased, and as sources have changed, so has my opinion. Games are often outputting a soft, sub-native resolution image without much aliasing, which is then upscaled.
I think there's a balance to be struck between the overly-soft output of many games, and actually having edge-contrast.

I'll post this FF XII image again:
ffxii-sharpened-qqjl4.gif


The unsharpened image is so soft that it hurts to look at. My eyes are strained because they're trying to bring the image into focus. I couldn't play a game like that for 60 minutes let alone 60 hours.
Yes, there are going to be sharpening artifacts, and maybe that example goes too far. But it's a price I'm willing to pay to actually have edge definition instead of everything blending together.
Without the sharpening, the planes of focus all blend together in that image. After sharpening, there's a clear distinction between the foreground/subject and the background.

Breath of the Wild is the game that broke me - specifically the path to Zora's Domain.
botw-ootb-gakcd.jpg


Look at how soft and low-contrast the image is here. Not just Link in the foreground, but that path up the mountain in the background. This area may also have the worst frame rate in the game too.
I'll warn you that it's not pretty, but I had to play that part of the game looking like this:
botw-fuck-30jfl.jpg


Yes, it's significantly over-sharpened. Yes, it's overly-contrasted and the gamma is pushed up a lot. I also had interpolation maxed-out on the TV.
But if I hadn't done that, it would have been the end of the game for me.
In fact, it was the end of the game for me until a couple of months ago when I got a v2 Switch. I sold my original Switch when I got to this area before, as I couldn't make it through without getting severely motion sick. I mean day-ruining motion sickness like people can experience from VR, not "I think I'll stop playing now".
In fact, I only spent five minutes getting to that area of the game to capture a screenshot, and even with the contrast and sharpness pushed like that I'm feeling kind-of queasy and may have to lay down. Something about that area of the game is really bad for me.

Now I'm not suggesting that anyone plays Switch games looking like that BotW example above. But sometimes some of us have to.
And even though the image quality is awful, I think it does still illustrate how edge-contrast is a problem in soft, sub-native games like BotW.
A lot of televisions now have "smarter" sharpening which behaves more like low-radius unsharp masking -or better- which helps bring the image a bit more "into focus" without obvious or severe ringing artifacts.
Something a bit more like this, which doesn't really stand out much other than on the HUD:
botw-usm-4rk2p.jpg


You might not even notice that without doing an A/B comparison. It's subtle, but can make a big difference on a larger display - especially when upscaled to 4K.
As games lean more into having imperfect rendering quality, I think our expectations of image quality have to change as well.

But also make sure that softening isnt maxxed... my parents tv has a middle 0 option, going up increases sharpness, going negative increases softness... so make sure you tv option is either center 0 or 0 sharp and 0 soft.
For some reason, Sony decided that they would use 50 as the neutral sharpness point on my TV.
And it gets worse - it's a more advanced sharpening algorithm than most TVs' typical "sharpness" control. It only affects the high frequencies of the image.
So you don't get obvious blurring when you go below 50, and if you're looking at typical sharpness test patterns you might think nothing is happening from 0 to 50. But when you start watching content you realize that all the fine textural detail in the image disappears when you set it to 0. It's weird.
 
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BloodshotX

Member
Jan 25, 2018
1,593
Just got Samsung Q60R. PS4 looks great. But dear god, Switch looks like the Grandia HD Collection "softening" filter. Everything is smudey and vaseline-y.

I was told I have to make sure I'm plugging into the "non 4k" HDMI port, but none of the ports on the TV are labeled as 4K enabled or not. Is there anything I can do in the settings to fix this? Or is this 4K tv just gonna make my Switch look worse than my old 1080p tv?

(Lowering the sharpness helped a bit, but it still looks bad).
well thats weird, ive got a 55 inch q70r and the switch looks pretty great(luigi's mansion 3 looks awesome, and even pokemon sword looks quite good).

What size tv do you have and how far do you sit away from the tv?
 

Serious Sam

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,354
Gross.

Next you'll be telling me you like to rub a little chilli in your eyes when you are feeling sleepy.
Umm, small ammounts of sharpening is standard image enhancing technique in today's gaming, most new games have that built in. Not sure what your post is supposed to mean, but it sounds a lot like "old man jells at cloud".
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,721
It always amuses me how much people piss and whine about graphics and resolution, and then proceed to whack up the sharpness on their TV, allow their TV to overscan, use all the wrong colour space settings and play their games through their TV's shitty speakers.

Please, for the love of God, at least read this basic guide...

www.rtings.com

How To Calibrate Your TV

Here is a guide to calibrating the essential settings on your TV. The first setting to adjust is the picture mode. This is what makes the biggest difference in the calibration.

Then look for your brand of TV on the site and copy their chosen picture settings; at the very least (really, you should be calibrating your TV set properly manually, as each panel is going to vary from set to set, but at least by copying their settings, you'll at least have a decent baseline to work with).

Then look to get some decent speakers (if not 5.1, then at least 2.1 dedicated speakers. Even a soundbar will do if you absolutely can't deal with an AV Receiver, just please! NOT the shitty built-in TV speakers!)

I promise you, your games will suddenly look and sound a whole generation better, instantly. All your complaints about visual quality will vanish near immediately.
 

BloodshotX

Member
Jan 25, 2018
1,593
It always amuses me how much people piss and whine about graphics and resolution, and then proceed to whack up the sharpness on their TV, allow their TV to overscan, use all the wrong colour space settings and play their games through their TV's shitty speakers.

Please, for the love of God, at least read this basic guide...

www.rtings.com

How To Calibrate Your TV

Here is a guide to calibrating the essential settings on your TV. The first setting to adjust is the picture mode. This is what makes the biggest difference in the calibration.

Then look for your brand of TV on the site and copy their chosen picture settings; at the very least (really, you should be calibrating your TV set properly manually, as each panel is going to vary from set to set, but at least by copying their settings, you'll at least have a decent baseline to work with).

Then look to get some decent speakers (if not 5.1, then at least 2.1 dedicated speakers. Even a soundbar will do if you absolutely can't deal with an AV Receiver, just please! NOT the shitty built-in TV speakers!)

I promise you, your games will suddenly look and sound a whole generation better, instantly. All your complaints about visual quality will vanish near immediately.
Well to be honest my switch at least looks great on my 55 inch q70r (viewing distance is about 2 meters). And i didnt even tinker with the settings all that much, the only thing i did is adjust the backlight level since the max brightness is waaaay to bright(and do fit to screen ofc).

my quess is that OP sits to close to his tv i.e. less than 1.5 meters for lets say a 55 inch. Could be handy if we knew viewing distance and size of the tv tbh
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,678
Umm, small ammounts of sharpening is standard image enhancing technique in today's gaming, most new games have that built in. Not sure what your post is supposed to mean, but it sounds a lot like "old man jells at cloud".

I was being silly :)


When high enough resolution it is tolerable in very small amounts I'm super sensitive to seeing it, whether it's in photos, video or games, so I avoid it.
If I can already see aliasing and pixel structure, the last thing I want is for that deficiency to be exaggerated further.
Global sharpening in a TV when it sits ontop of the final image, Is especially egregious, as are standard post process sharpening techniques.

There is a place for it, but I would leave to to the content creators to define and do your best to view the image in the same way they saw it.
 
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iamaustrian

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,291
Do not use pc mode unless you are using the tv as a pc monitor.

why?
I tried pc vs game mode yesterday in witcher 3 and several classic arcade games (in the hunt etc). tbh game mode looks terrible. overblown colors and contrast.
PC mode looks "pure" (the way it suppose to look)and, I dunno if thats only my imagination, has less input delay.
 

Doctre81

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,452
why?
I tried pc vs game mode yesterday in witcher 3 and several classic arcade games (in the hunt etc). tbh game mode looks terrible. overblown colors and contrast.
PC mode looks "pure" (the way it suppose to look)and, I dunno if thats only my imagination, has less input delay.
LOL this is the most wrong comment ever lol.

PC mode if the one with the overblown colors if you are connected to a console, game mode has the leeast amount of input lag because its literally turning mostpost processing effects of your tv off. Limited and black level low is the way its "supposed to" look.
 

iamaustrian

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,291
LOL this is the most wrong comment ever lol.

PC mode if the one with the overblown colors if you are connected to a console, game mode has the leeast amount of input lag because its literally turning mostpost processing effects of your tv off. Limited and black level low is the way its "supposed to" look.

Well, its the exact opposite with my TV.
What should I do
 

Arta

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,445
Just got Samsung Q60R. PS4 looks great. But dear god, Switch looks like the Grandia HD Collection "softening" filter. Everything is smudey and vaseline-y.

I was told I have to make sure I'm plugging into the "non 4k" HDMI port, but none of the ports on the TV are labeled as 4K enabled or not. Is there anything I can do in the settings to fix this? Or is this 4K tv just gonna make my Switch look worse than my old 1080p tv?

(Lowering the sharpness helped a bit, but it still looks bad).
I just got my Samsung Q70 last week, having the same problems with my Switch, the PS4 main menu icons and some PS4 games (though some newer 2d games look fantastic).
 

Arta

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,445
You may be able to set TV resolution to 1080p I think?
Set your Switch (and your PS4 for that matter) to PC mode. Done.
The tv will effectively be native res for 720p, 1080p, and 2160p.
Ok holy hell.

PC Mode + Game Mode on + Messing with sharpness some more made a shitload of difference. Thanks guys.
How do you put your consoles in pc mode? Can't find that in any settings.
 

Haint

Banned
Oct 14, 2018
1,361
always true on a Samsung. In a thread about a Samsung :p

Astonishingly, it's actually not. While I can't speak to the 2019's specifically, some Samsung's actually change the sharpness scale/behavior depending on whether it's in PC Mode Vs. Standard Modes. In PC Mode 50 is neutral while 0-49 induces an artifical softening and 51-100 introduces artificial sharpening. In Non-PC modes 0 is neutral and 1-100 is sharpening. One of my monitors, a 40" KU6300 (2016) exhibits this behavior.
 

ss_lemonade

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,646
Why are some recommending full rgb (or pc mode if you want to call it that)? In my experience, the Switch (and pretty much everything else) looks the same and displays correctly as long as the TV and connected device agree on black level (both limited or both full). This is the case with 2 TVs we have, a 1080p Sony Bravia and a 4k Samsung TV.

Do some TVs actually look different between limited and full? Or is this another xbox 360 phenomenon of people preferring black crush or something similar? I believe that was a thing back then
 

Kilbane65

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,459
I'm seeing some confusion regarding PC Mode. This is a HDMI setting. On your TV you can select the HDMI port on settings and switch it to PC mode.
You can do that for each specific HDMI port.
 

Doctre81

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,452
Why are some recommending full rgb (or pc mode if you want to call it that)? In my experience, the Switch (and pretty much everything else) looks the same and displays correctly as long as the TV and connected device agree on black level (both limited or both full). This is the case with 2 TVs we have, a 1080p Sony Bravia and a 4k Samsung TV.

Do some TVs actually look different between limited and full? Or is this another xbox 360 phenomenon of people preferring black crush or something similar? I believe that was a thing back then

They don't look the same. You are still losing some details by choosing full if its not connected to a pc. The mismatching shows more of a difference but you still get a little crush when using full if not for use as a pc monitor. There is literally no reason to not use limited if not being used as a pc monitor. People are just hung up on the word "limited"

No professional calibrator will ever tell you to use full unless its being connected to a pc. Look up calibrations on reviews for any tv out there. Its always low/limited because that is the correct setting.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,722
Game Mode is the most raw setting so definitely stick with that for games. Especially if you want the lowest input lag possible on your set.
For my Samsung, and possibly the OP's, this is 1000% NOT the case. Game Mode does have less lag than normal, but the TV will still apply post processing effects and upscaling.
The only way to get 100% processing free image, with the minimum input lag and no upscaling artifacts, is to set the HDMI port to PC.

The Switch does not have a "PC" Mode. It has "Docked", "Tabletop", and "Handheld".
I'm referring to the setting on the HDMI input on the TV.
 

SiG

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,485
Switch does have pc mode. Its called full range RGB. pc mode and full range RGB are the same exact thing. Don't enable this unless your tv is being used as a pc monitor
Full Range RGB isn't necessarily PC Mode. Yes, it uses the same bits of color as PC monitors, but TVs can have it enabled so long as their device supports it (like game consoles with full RGB support), otherwise black/gamma levels will look off.
 

iamaustrian

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,291
Shouldn't be the opposite. You probably just got use to having the wrong settings. Just like most people who have cool 1 as their color temp setting. What kind of tv do you have

it has nothing to do with my settings. it's just like that. see post below
my tv: samsung ue46f6510ss


For my Samsung, and possibly the OP's, this is 1000% NOT the case. Game Mode does have less lag than normal, but the TV will still apply post processing effects and upscaling.
The only way to get 100% processing free image, with the minimum input lag and no upscaling artifacts, is to set the HDMI port to PC.


I'm referring to the setting on the HDMI input on the TV.
 

DOTDASHDOT

Helios Abandoned. Atropos Conquered.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,076
I think in recent years the 1080p vs 4K debate has been muddied by modern anti aliasing techniques and decent upscaling, good TAA and 1080p can give amazingly close results vs 4K, I've seen it time and time again on my C8 (Respawn's Star Wars being a brilliant example on PC), and obviously the performance ramifications are huge.

Even pixel art and hand drawn games coupled with great upscaling can look almost the same as 4K, but this is largely down to the TV.
 

Doctre81

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,452
Full Range RGB isn't necessarily PC Mode. Yes, it uses the same bits of color as PC monitors, but TVs can have it enabled so long as their device supports it (like game consoles with full RGB support), otherwise black/gamma levels will look off.
Yes it is and you are wrong. PC mode is what samsung used to call full range rgb. I'm not gonna bother with this anymore. Continue being wrong if you like.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,031
Do Sony Bravias have a PC Mode? Specifically an XBRX950G. My switch picture on this set looks good but i have a feeling it could be better.
 

AlanOC91

Owner of YGOPRODeck.com
Verified
Nov 5, 2017
959
OP how do you feel about the Q60R?

Bought the 55inch one myself a month ago and been in love with it. Fantastic TV imo.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,722
Do Sony Bravias have a PC Mode? Specifically an XBRX950G. My switch picture on this set looks good but i have a feeling it could be better.
In 99.999% of cases, you'll get much more true IQ if you set the HDMI input to "PC", and the vast majority of TVs have this. This may make things like the 720p menu look worse, but the TV will actually just display whatever is fed to it, instead of trying to post process the shit out of it.

Excellent advice, can you elaborate why you think they should avoid PC mode?
 

Doctre81

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,452
In 99.999% of cases, you'll get much more true IQ if you set the HDMI input to "PC", and the vast majority of TVs have this. This may make things like the 720p menu look worse, but the TV will actually just display whatever is fed to it, instead of trying to post process the shit out of it.


Excellent advice, can you elaborate why you think they should avoid PC mode?
Already explained it multiple times above