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Sander VF

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
25,995
Tbilisi, Georgia
So Hotline Miami came out years ago and obviously had an influence on the Indie scene. At the risk of being completely wrong and coming off as uninformed in creating this thread, I will still dare to posit that is introduced a gameplay conceit that may be creating a sort of subgenre within action games. I'm not talking about the form of gameplay, obviously Hotline Miami isn't the first or even defining overhead action game, I am taking about a conceit that can be readily applied to different types of action games, the same way the properties of Rogue can be.

The conceit I'm talking about is:
"You kill enemies in one hit, but can be killed in one hit in yourself, now clear out those levels"

This is what connects Hotline Miami and the games that are possibly it's followers within this supposed subgenre. Games such as Ape Out, Mr. Shifty, Katana Zero, Bloodroots.

And of course there is a bit of leeway here, as Ape Out for example has your character being slightly more durable (able to take three hits as opposed to one) and has elements that push it's enemy killing process more towards improvisation, rather than premediation (escaping as the goal, a degree of random generation), but I think those are still within the template.

Now, I seriously might be talking out of my butt, since Katana ZERO is the only one of these I have actually played, but I really do think there's a sub-genre emerging. In fact, I WANT this shit to become a popular indie sub-genre. The action in these games have a certain level of exhiliration. They combine the feeling of empowerment with danger of of the ever-potent threat of a swift death. They the closest interactive equivalent to visceral action movie scenes where the hero fights their way through a hallway of goons.

So if it IS a thing, what do we call them? I propose the term "Glass Cannon", because that's what you are in these games.

EDIT: I wana point out that they don't have to be overhead, as exemplified by Katana ZERO



or even if they are overhead, they don't have to involve shooting, as demonstrated by Ape Out



and Bloodroots

 
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Sander VF

Sander VF

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
25,995
Tbilisi, Georgia

Sgt. Demblant

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,030
France
I love hotkatas but I wish they had more metroidvania elements but with devilnetta combat, soulsbornekiro-inspired world design and some sweet shlooter micro-transactions.
 

AllEchse

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,125
It doesn't have to be top down, as shown by Katana ZERO.

Hell you could probably apply the conceit to a 3D action game with behind the back camera.

They don't have to be shooters or overhead.
Wouldn't Super Hot be pretty close?
There even was that mini game called Superhotline Miami that combined their gameplay.
 
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Sander VF

Sander VF

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
25,995
Tbilisi, Georgia
Wouldn't Super Hot be pretty close?
There even was that mini game called Superhotline Miami that combined their gameplay.
I thought about including Superhot, but it's been a while since I've seen it to remember exactly how durable you or your enemies are,so I refrained from mentioning it just to be safe.

But yeah, SUPERHOT totally counts.
 

AllEchse

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,125
I thought about including Superhot, but it's been a while since I've seen it to remember exactly how durable you or your enemies are,so I refrained from mentioning it just to be safe.

But yeah, SUPERHOT totally counts.
Maybe we should first collect other games that fall under the same umbrella to find a name that fits.
Ape Out and Hong Kong Massacre should also fit, but I suppose Super Meat Boy(would that also mean Celeste?) is too different, as you still only can take one hit but you don't really have offensive abilities.

I think this makes the most sense, they are beat 'em ups with one-shots to enhance pace basically.
Maybe something like Optimize'em up? lol
 
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Sander VF

Sander VF

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
25,995
Tbilisi, Georgia
Ape Out and Hong Kong Massacre should also fit, but I suppose Super Meat Boy(would that also mean Celeste?) is too different, as you still only can take one hit but you don't really have offensive abilities.
Perhaps this exposes the faultiness of my premise, but I would exclude Celeste and Super Meat Boy.

I see them as subtype of 2D platformer.
 

Gakidou

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,612
pip pip cheerio fish & chips
Kind of seems related to what I've been calling "precision platformers" in the past, EG: Abe's Oddyssey and Prince of Persia(1989)
Similarly high stakes real time gameplay with more of a problem solving/puzzle approach?
So maybe i'd opt for calling it precision action or something, i like it when genres emphasise what you as the player has to actually do, like if you're using reflexes or rhythm or navigation, etc.

I always hotline miami fit squarely into the "top down shooter" genre though, but I haven't played it yet.

Tooter Dooters, the T and D stands for Top Down.
Can't argue with this tho.
 

Bomi-Chan

Member
Nov 8, 2017
665
Hotlines.
hot fo action
and lines as for you cant cross the line you already have walked.
this defines this game genre for me.
 

Net_Wrecker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,735
Super Meat Boy(would that also mean Celeste?)

I dub these Death Platformers.
Kind of seems related to what I've been calling "precision platformers" in the past, EG: Abe's Oddyssey and Prince of Persia(1989)
Similarly high stakes real time gameplay with more of a problem solving/puzzle approach?

These are Cinematic Platformers. Games with a Prince of Persia lineage featuring detailed and weighty animations, traps, one hit deaths, puzzles, and a general off kilter rhythm compared to normal 2D platformers. They're also usually more narrative heavy and feature scripted story sequences.
 

AllEchse

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,125
Kind of seems related to what I've been calling "precision platformers" in the past, EG: Abe's Oddyssey and Prince of Persia(1989)
Similarly high stakes real time gameplay with more of a problem solving/puzzle approach?
So maybe i'd opt for calling it precision action or something, i like it when genres emphasise what you as the player has to actually do, like if you're using reflexes or rhythm or navigation, etc.

I always hotline miami fit squarely into the "top down shooter" genre though, but I haven't played it yet.
Maybe we should just call them High Stakes-whatever genre they fall in
High Stakes Plattformer
High Stakes Top down Twin Stick Shooter
Though I would argue that Hotline Maimi and the others are much different to the old Prince of Persia and Abe Oddysee in that they are much faster paced and build around finding a fast route and emphasize optimizing it to keep your score multiplier up(Hotline Miami) or just having a faster time(Super Meat Boy).
So High Stakes Optimization Action games?
 

Gvon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,333
It's a shoot em up.
If you want a fancy name I would go for Multidirectional Adrenaline Shump. That's what hotline felt like whilst I was playing it.
 
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Sander VF

Sander VF

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
25,995
Tbilisi, Georgia
I always hotline miami fit squarely into the "top down shooter" genre though, but I haven't played it yet.
It is, I believe.

I guess the problem here is that the "subgenre" I'm proposing here is sort of a "meta" genre, if genre is even the correct term to use. It's uleset-based definition rather than on moment to moment gameplay. Exactly like "Rogue-like". A rogue-like can be literally anything in terms of gameplay, the only common thread is that you start over when you die. Because of this, it can be combined with any genre. Enter the Gungeon is simultenously a Rogue-like and a top down shooter.

This "Kill em Up"/"Glass Cannon Action Game"/ whatever can be just about anything. In terms of gameplay, Katana ZERO is more of an action platformer, but it's the ruleset that brings it closer to something like Hotline Miami.
 
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Elodes

Looks to the Moon
Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,234
The Netherlands
I haven't played them, but I believe "12 is better than 6" and "God's Trigger" are two more games in this subgenre.

Yeah, honestly, after playing Katana Zero, I think we can definitely say that Hotline Miami created a genre. I propose Miamilikes agree with the term Glass Cannon being a good descriptor.



Glasscannonlike
 

AllEchse

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,125
It is, I believe.

I guess the problem here is that the "subgenre" I'm proposing here is sort of a "meta" genre, if genre is even the correct term to use. It's where the ruleset-based definition rather than on based on moment to moment gameplay. Exactly like "Rogue-like". A rogue-like can be literally anything in terms of gameplay, the only common thread is that you start over when you die. Because of this, it can be combined with any genre. Enter the Gungeon is simultenously a Rogue-like and a top down shooter.

This "Kill em Up"/"Glass Cannon Action Game"/ whatever can be just about anything. In terms of gameplay, Katana ZERO is more of an action platformer, but it's the ruleset that brings it closer to something like Hotline Miami.
I think that the problem in this thread.
Many people only see that it's a top down shooter and put it in that category.
But thats not what it Katana Zero or even Super Meat Boy(I would still argue it's part of all this) have in common

- You only can take one hit to die/have low health
- It's fast so have to keep your time low/point multiplier up/both
- They are level based and you can retry very fast.


You can do that from any perspective so it's definitely some kind of subgenre.
 

Elodes

Looks to the Moon
Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,234
The Netherlands
It is, I believe.

I guess the problem here is that the "subgenre" I'm proposing here is sort of a "meta" genre, if genre is even the correct term to use. It's where the ruleset-based definition rather than on based on moment to moment gameplay. Exactly like "Rogue-like". A rogue-like can be literally anything in terms of gameplay, the only common thread is that you start over when you die. Because of this, it can be combined with any genre. Enter the Gungeon is simultenously a Rogue-like and a top down shooter.

This "Kill em Up"/"Glass Cannon Action Game"/ whatever can be just about anything. In terms of gameplay, Katana ZERO is more of an action platformer, but it's the ruleset that brings it closer to something like Hotline Miami.
It's interesting --- I think games can have three genres: One that describes their moment-to-moment gameplay ("shooter", "platformer", etc.), one that describes their pacing or structure ("metroidvania", "soulslike", and now "glass cannon action"), and one that describes their tone ("horror", "comedy", etc.).

Respectively something like: "What do you do?", "In what context do you do it?", and "How do you feel while doing it?"
 
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Sander VF

Sander VF

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
25,995
Tbilisi, Georgia
It's interesting --- I think games can have three genres: One that describes their moment-to-moment gameplay ("shooter", "platformer", etc.), one that describes their pacing or structure ("metroidvania", "soulslike", and now "glass cannon action"), and one that describes their tone ("horror", "comedy", etc.).

Respectively something like: "What do you do?", "In what context do you do it?", and "How do you feel while doing it?"
This post made me more appreciative of the matter of game genres in general.

Game genres seems to be more complex when compared to other mediums.

In fact, now that I think about it, wouldn't open worlds be this second, structure/rule-based category of genre?
 
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Sander VF

Sander VF

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
25,995
Tbilisi, Georgia
Top down shoot em ups have been around for some time.


I'm not talking about moment-to-moment gameplay.

I'm talking about a genre based on rules, which can be combined with any given gameplay genre.

If a top down shooter can simultenously be a rogue-like (Enter the Gungeon, Nuclear Throne) or even a Metroidvania (none exist that I know of, but very much concievable).