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Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,109
Spoilers for that chapter.

I've been replaying FFXV since it hit Game Pass and I forgot how hilarious the big reveal in Ch. 13 is.

For the uninitiated, the game follows the prince of a kingdom and his entourage of three retainers as they complete a series of tasks to save the world.

Throughout the game you fight a rival's kingdoms army of daemonic robots (yes, the game explains that they are daemon-infused robots) called "MTs."

At one point late in the game, you infiltrate a building in this rival kingdom and come across a door that you can not open. One of the prince's three retainers walks up to the lock and scans his wrist over it, which unlocks it. I'm paraphrasing a bit here, but he says something along the lines of "All MTs have this barcode on their arm. 'Cause it turns out I am one."

The party barely reacts to the revelation that their lifelong friend is actually a demon robot constructed by the enemy. The prince immediately says "What does it matter where you born?" as if his country of origin is somehow more relevant and surprising than the fact that he's a goddamn robot. The other two party members basically chime in that they don't care, that they still love him and he's still an essential part of the group, and then no one brings it up again for the rest of the game. A grand total of about half a minute is spent on this huge twist that should be earth-shattering to the characters.

The whole second half or so of FFXV is a mess that was very clearly rushed out the door, but that interaction stands out as the most "What the hell were they thinking there?" moment in a game full of them. You open a bunch of other doors in the same level by finding a series of key cards that unlock barriers with progressively higher security clearances. Why couldn't they have just had this last door be the last security level? This twist is not another weird as hell but also completely unnecessary.

The DLC may provide more context for this, I haven't played any of it, but I don't see how it matters much. The base game is nonsensical. Post-launch DLC should be a cool addition for people who want to dig deeper into the lore, not required to make the story coherent.

As dumb as the scene is I kind of love it for just how head-scratchingly odd it is. Does anyone have another other good examples of nonsensical/ unnecessary/ otherwise noteworthy plot twists?
 

Strings

Member
Oct 27, 2017
31,384
Yeah, the Prompto thing is so fucking random. Especially since they show him as a kid in Brotherhood (plus he has an important dad) and do absolutely nothing to explain how the MTs or whatever they are work.

EDIT: I bothered to look into this after finishing the game, and iirc MTs are clones of his dad or something (this is all mentioned in an official strategy guide at release, alongside Verstael being his dad - I don't think it's mentioned anywhere in the game itself until the Prompto DLC).
 
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Lunatic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,828
Prompto is not a robot lol. I agree that the whole thing is very oddly brushed aside either way.
 

PspLikeANut

Free
Member
May 20, 2018
2,598
Shock value for the sake of shocking the player. It didn't even felt earned...I was like lolwut. Out of the blue.
 

Deleted member 35631

User requested account closure
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Dec 8, 2017
1,139
The positive thing, is that we might be able to see Final Fantasy Versus XIII story through Kingdom Hearts. Might take two decades, but still.

I think they confirmed two things:
1) FFXV director wanted his stamp in the game, and tried to remove as much as Nomura did as possible.

2)He confirmed that taking money from the budget to do the movie, anime and all that side stuff was a mistake.
 
OP
OP
Clay

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,109
Prompto is not a robot lol. I agree that the whole thing is very oddly brushed aside either way.

How do you know? Like I said, if there's supplemental story content that explains it better fair enough, but as someone who just saw this scene last night it's been made pretty clear that MTs are robots, and that Prompto is an MT, so I'm not sure what else I'm supposed to think here.

How did they end up changing Chapter 13? I only played it on release

Chapter 14 is the one that got the big changes. They made 13 a little less painful. I noticed you can move around more quickly and the Death spell now does pretty decent damage along with its original effect. There may be other changes too but that's all that stood out to me. I'm pretty sure there's no new cutscenes or anything.
 

Lunatic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,828
How do you know? Like I said, if there's supplemental story content that explains it better fair enough, but as someone who just saw this scene last night it's been made pretty clear that MTs are robots, and that Prompto is an MT, so I'm not sure what else I'm supposed to think here.


I agree the game is very misleading wrt. I think it at least tries to poorly explain to you that MT's are not "just robots" in the base game but honestly I've blocked out most of the awful story myself >.< I remember thinking to myself, how are we childhood friends with a robot apparently. a robot who used to be fat? lol.

I believe in Japanese the line "i'm one of them" refers more specifically to being a Niflheimian.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,223
its honestly so funny. the pivot of this scene into some dumb emotional moment that makes no sense. HES A ROBOT. YALLS FRIEND IS A ROBOT MADE BY THE ENEMY!!!
 

pbayne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,340
Not as bad as that but i remember the moment on the train where that barely ever seen assistant to the princess turned out to be a summon for some reason.
 
OP
OP
Clay

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,109
I agree the game is very misleading wrt. I think it at least tries to poorly explain to you that MT's are not "just robots" in the base game but honestly I've blocked out most of the awful story myself >.<

I'm not going to claim to be an expert by any means, but what I took from the various text files lying around Ch. 13 was that MTs are daemons infused into a robotic shell, and that daemons are corrupted people and animals. I guess the writers didn't really care about clarifying all this too much, haha.

Not as bad as that but i remember the moment on the train where that barely ever seen assistant to the princess turned out to be a summon for some reason.

That one's pretty good too. Especially odd because the game has already explained that she's some kind of demigod or something prior that that reveal. Just kidding, she's actually a summon.

Ramuh's trial is another stand-out moment. The first summon has an extended set-piece that culminates in a boss fight, you've been hearing bits and pieces about the titan for a few hours, it's clearly challenging Noctis to make sure that he's worthy of its blessing or whatever. Then Ramuh is just "Go press A on three rocks." Very weird.
 
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Lunatic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,828
I'm not going to claim to be an expert by any means, but what I took from the various text files lying around Ch. 13 was that MTs are daemons infused into a robotic shell, and that daemons are corrupted people and animals. I guess the writers didn't really care about clarifying all this too much, haha.

They do clarify quite a lot, in his DLC as you fear :P Same with every main character that randomly dips out of the story and has SE basically reach into your pocket while asking "wanna know what happens here?" before they bundled it into the RE.
 

Seneset

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,072
Limbus Patrum
How do you know? Like I said, if there's supplemental story content that explains it better fair enough, but as someone who just saw this scene last night it's been made pretty clear that MTs are robots, and that Prompto is an MT, so I'm not sure what else I'm supposed to think here.
This is a huge problem with the game, a lot of the story and other interesting things happen outside of the main game.

Prompto is a clone of Verstael Besithia aka the researcher/scientist/designer of the MTs. As a child he's kidnapped before he's put into/grafted to a machine. MTs are cyborgs, not robots or androids.

"The infantry units you callously dub 'MTs' all began as babes in this very facility. Imprinted with serial codes and incubated until they were strong enough to fight. What a pity. Innocent souls fated to suffer...at the hands of a foreign king. Well, not so 'MT' after all, are they? " That's a quote from Ardyn Izunia.
 
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Shibi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
383
The ending of The Third Birthday is far more bizarre. I could probably think of a lot more too if I took the time, but just limiting myself to SE games for now thats the first that comes to mind.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,223
is this what his dlc chapter is about? i haven't played the dlc but this thread reminded me that i've always been curious if they addressed this huge thing
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
23,611
I think the moment lands way differently if you play the Prompto DLC at the appropriate time during the story.
 

Linus815

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,724
jareds death had me shook, cant believe such an iconic, well written character was killed like that.

pour one out for my boy
 
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Luigi87

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,105
Prompto being a MT is for me, the dumbest, most inconsequential twist I ever saw in a video game, and I hate it.
Edit: And apparently according to the DLC he is actually a MT?... That's even more annoying that it's brought up at all then, lol
 

Seneset

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,072
Limbus Patrum
is this what his dlc chapter is about? i haven't played the dlc but this thread reminded me that i've always been curious if they addressed this huge thing
Yes, the DLC is about his past and how he figures out what he tells the party. Basically Prompto isn't an MT, he's neither daemonified nor hooked up to magitech. He's someone that should have become one and would have if he hadn't been kidnapped.
 

Kamek

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,976
When I first played it I really felt like Prompto was supposed to be a L'Cie or something with FNC.
 

Bunkles

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Oct 26, 2017
5,663
I played FF15 in its entirety and I forgot all of this happened and I can still barely, if at all, recall the events in the OP. I guess I checked out of the story at this point...
 

Feep

Lead Designer, Iridium Studios
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Oct 25, 2017
4,596
I maintain that Final Fantasy XV is the worst mainline narrative in the franchise (though XIII isn't far behind), and was an absolute disaster from start to finish. Meanwhile, FFXIV is a masterpiece. Get that scenario writer in here.
 

Lunatic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,828
I maintain that Final Fantasy XV is the worst mainline narrative in the franchise (though XIII isn't far behind), and was an absolute disaster from start to finish. Meanwhile, FFXIV is a masterpiece. Get that scenario writer in here.


You can have the guy who wrote Stormblood but we are keeping Natsuko Ishikawa. She is precious to us!
 

Deleted member 38706

User requested account closure
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How do you know? Like I said, if there's supplemental story content that explains it better fair enough, but as someone who just saw this scene last night it's been made pretty clear that MTs are robots, and that Prompto is an MT, so I'm not sure what else I'm supposed to think here.

As I recall, it appears to be a difference in translation. I played the Chinese version with Japanese voice-acting. In both scripts, Prompto states that he is Niflheim-born because he has the barcode that MTs have. Whereas the English script has him saying "I'm one of them" makes it sound like he is confessing to being a MT. He isn't. It's just that MTs are made from human beings with those barcodes. His big confession was actually about him being from Niflheim, which makes him feel like he's a traitor. I think the scattered notes in Ch. 13 talks a lot about the origin of daemons and stuff, but it's been a while since I played.
 

Papercuts

Prophet of Truth
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Oct 25, 2017
11,013
It was hilarious. I guess they didn't want Prompto to just be the guy that jokes around all the time and tried to flesh him out with a weird ass hail mary.

Nothing will top the "fucking who??" of jared though. God FFXV sucks.
 
OP
OP
Clay

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,109
As I recall, it appears to be a difference in translation. I played the Chinese version with Japanese voice-acting. In both scripts, Prompto states that he is Niflheim-born because he has the barcode that MTs have. Whereas the English script has him saying "I'm one of them" makes it sound like he is confessing to being a MT. He isn't. It's just that MTs are made from human beings with those barcodes. His big confession was actually about him being from Niflheim, which makes him feel like he's a traitor.

Ah. That makes a ton of sense since the party basically reply that they don't care where he was born. What a bizarre oversight by the translators.

It is still really weird that they just immediately brush it aside. And how did that happen in the first place? Is there no security in place to make sure an enemy insurgent doesn't infiltrate the group responsible for the prince's safety? I know Prompto isn't actually an insurgent, but it sure seems like the palace should have been really suspicious of him.

Everyone's reaction is pretty stupid as well. Ardyn has been waiting for lifetimes to enact revenge on the royal family. Is there really no chance at all that Prompto could be part of that plan?

It was hilarious. I guess they didn't want Prompto to just be the guy that jokes around all the time and tried to flesh him out with a weird ass hail mary.

Nothing will top the "fucking who??" of jared though. God FFXV sucks.

I think you hit the nail on the head, they were going for "Guess what? The comic relief character actually has a tragic backstory! Wow!" but the execution is beyond terrible.

I forgot all about Jared! That was hilarious too! "Here's an old dude that doesn't really seem to have anything to do with anything! Oh no, he died!" And then his grandson is asking you to hunt down Cactuar plushies for him almost immediately afterward. Great stuff!
 

Strings

Member
Oct 27, 2017
31,384
jareds death had me shook, cant believe such an iconic, well written character was killed like that.

pour one out for my boy
They spend more time mourning and reminiscing about Jared than Noctis's father, the king:

images
 

Jotakori

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,183
Oh god, yeah, that was one of the genuinely worst moments in XV. It was awfully handled and felt like it came out of absolutely nowhere (and no, the one scene you have with Prompto on an inn roof does not count as foreshadowing lol). I still remember everyone's disbelief at having to learn who Prompto's 'father' was through the art book pffft.

That said, playing the DLC immediately before he rejoins your party again makes it soooooooo so sooOOooOOO much better, oh my god. It feels less like a random af out of nowhere moment and much more like a regular story progression moment. Albeit how quickly Noctis and the other bros accept it is still a bit weird, but it's definitely a majorly improved experience.
 

ze_

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,937
I was so perplexed by that decision that I laughed. It's easily the lowest point in the story.
 

BasilZero

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
36,343
Omni
FFXV's plot was so vague that you had to read/look into other sources to understand what happened kinda like what happened with Star Wars episode IX lol



At the very least the Journey was much more fun at least to me than the ending....lol.
 

Deleted member 34949

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Nov 30, 2017
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The ending of The Third Birthday is far more bizarre. I could probably think of a lot more too if I took the time, but just limiting myself to SE games for now thats the first that comes to mind.
The last hour of 3rd Birthday makes even the most nonsensical stuff from Kingdom Hearts look like fuckin' Legacy of Kain in comparison.
 

atomsk eater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,828
The nonchalance with which the reveal is made and everyone just brushing past it is hilarious. No questions or clarification needed! And they really should have discussed it more because yeah, I didn't understand that Prompto wasn't a weird growing nanomachine robot or something.

That they broke out basically the entire character arcs for anyone who isn't Noctis and made it DLC is such a weird decision that really messed with the game if you didn't pause to play the DLC right when it takes place.

That was a bad plot twist, but to answer your question, yes, there is a more bizarre plot twist in gaming:

star-ocean-till-the-end-of-time-1-470x310@2x.jpg

I thought of this while reading the thread! I don't mind the plot twist so much as how IIRC none of the characters really seem to be affected or care about it.
If I found out I was "just" a video game character that'd give me a pretty big existential crisis.
 

Deleted member 38706

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Ah. That makes a ton of sense since the party basically reply that they don't care where he was born. What a bizarre oversight by the translators.

It is still really weird that they just immediately brush it aside. And how did that happen in the first place? Is there no security in place to make sure an enemy insurgent doesn't infiltrate the group responsible for the prince's safety? I know Prompto isn't actually an insurgent, but it sure seems like the palace should have been really suspicious of him.

Everyone's reaction is pretty stupid as well. Ardyn has been waiting for lifetimes to enact revenge on the royal family. Is there really no chance at all that Prompto could be part of that plan?

The whole lore was awfully distributed. I think it was in one of the Brotherhood episodes that explains Prompto was adopted and knows nothing about Niflheim. I checked the wiki, and it seems like he was kidnapped by Lucian operatives as a baby which explains why the Lucian army doesn't suspect him. But I seriously have no idea where that info is from. I am aware that Prompto knew Noctis as a kid from Brotherhood though. So Noctis just really trusts him and don't expect him to be a spy ever since he was a child.
 

Rapscallion

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Oct 25, 2017
2,790
XV is a Frankenstein game to begin with, but this portion of the game and the final chapter are where it shows its stitching most glaringly.
 

Ctrl Alt Del

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I thought of this while reading the thread! I don't mind the plot twist so much as how IIRC none of the characters really seem to be affected or care about it.
If I found out I was "just" a video game character that'd give me a pretty big existential crisis.
I mean, the shock was so great even I felt it. After finding out about the 4D beings and wandering about a bit on their ridiculous world, I wasn't feeling like continuing so I eventually dropped it and never beat it. Pretty sad since I was loving the game until that very point.
 

Dalik

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Nov 1, 2017
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I maintain that Final Fantasy XV is the worst mainline narrative in the franchise (though XIII isn't far behind), and was an absolute disaster from start to finish. Meanwhile, FFXIV is a masterpiece. Get that scenario writer in here.

I will protect Natsuko Ishikawa from badly managed projects at all costs. Especially Nomura ones.
 

Deleted member 8861

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Scrolling past everything to answer the rhetorical question in the title: read TheDarkId's Drakengard LP if you want some really bizarre shit
 

Shibi

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Oct 25, 2017
383
I still can't believe after all these years that they really went with this twist lol.
I'd argue its the most damaging twist ever to a franchise. Literally retroactively damaging the first two games and making it nearly impossible to make any game past this point in the series.
 
Oct 31, 2017
14,991
n08A8NO.jpg


Me after not complaining about how disappointed I was with FFXV for 5 minutes

Yeah that was extremely strange OP, but par for the course, honestly.

The positive thing, is that we might be able to see Final Fantasy Versus XIII story through Kingdom Hearts. Might take two decades, but still.

I think they confirmed two things:
1) FFXV director wanted his stamp in the game, and tried to remove as much as Nomura did as possible.

2)He confirmed that taking money from the budget to do the movie, anime and all that side stuff was a mistake.

Do you have a link for #2? Because that would make me dislike Tabata less

XV is a Frankenstein game to begin with, but this portion of the game and the final chapter are where it shows its stitching most glaringly.

Idk man finding out that your home (that's like.... 4 miles away) was absolutely massacred via newspaper in Chapter 1 was pretty bad