Is the mentality of "I'll just wait until it gets on Game Pass" hurt launch sales of new indie games not launching on GP?

[fanboy]

This isnt another concern thread about GP sustainability or concern about sales of games that are on GP.

I would rather talk about indie and smaller games that dont actually get on Game Pass on launch.

I see it on Youtube, Era, facebook, twitter, among my friends, pretty much everywhere: "hmm, I'll just wait until it gets on Game Pass".

I did it few times as well. I used to buy a ton od indie games for my switch in sales, but its been a couple of months since I bought more than one or two indie games on eshop within one month (I used to buy 5-6 at minimum).

I just kinda wishlist them and count on them appearing on GP at some point. Seeing as a LOT of folks do the same, I think its fair to ask ourselves if this model doesnt eventually hurt indie Games not launching on Game Pass day one. A lot of players putting away their purchase or even never getting to it at all due to endless hope for it appearing on Game Pass. And even if they eventually buy the game, its price is already lowered.

Is this going to reach an era, when will indie developers "fight" for the place on Game Pass in fear of players overlooking their games or straight up not buying them? And we know that launch sales are really important, especially for indies with little to no backing and low finances, never mind the Covid era on top of it. What are your thoughts on this?

PS: I fucking love Game Pass

Edit: i would appreciate if the mods could fix the title

Is the mentality of "I'll just wait until it gets on Game Pass" going to hurt launch sales of new indie games not launching on GP?

 

[Kingpin722]

If the Indie game is on Switch it'll be okay. They sell like crazy over there it seems

 

[Akita One]

There is no difference between waiting for a sale or waiting for GamePass. There is also no evidence of GamePass or any similar service affecting game sales in any real way. It's the same as how devs get paid for their games being free on EGS.

GP concern thread #1,223 (Filed under "But the devs!" plus bonus points for using the word "indie", since they benefit from GamePass more than everyone else)

/thread

 

[Uzupedro]

I wouldn't say so, I think that there is a very little overlap of the people who say this with those who would buy the game at launch or in the near future.

 

[24thFrame]

I don't really think it's that different than "I'll wait for a sale"

If something seems really promising to a potential buyer, they'll buy it.

 

[andymcc]

There is no difference between waiting for a sales or waiting for GamePass.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, these people were just not wanting to pay full price for a game-- period.

 

[fanboy]

If the Indie game is on Switch it'll be okay. They sell like crazy over there it seems

Click to shrink...

You should read the OP as I adress this there (kinda).

I and a few of my friends are among the players that just dont buy indie games anymore and we just wait until they hit GP. We are building our backlog a lot slower coz there are hundreds of games on GP already.

 

[Nabbit]

I have the impression indie sales are low on Xbox One compared to Switch, and that not a lot of XB1 owners have a Switch. No idea if that's right but if it is, then this is just an effective way to maximize indie sales in the Xbox ecosystem. It can also help cover development costs up front.

 

[Phamit]

If this is a thing it already happened with PS+, Humble Bundle, Games with Gold etc..

 

[Quellyford]

I don't really think it's that different than "I'll wait for a sale"

If something seems really promising to a potential buyer, they'll buy it.

Click to shrink...

I think this is a fair take. I very much agree.

But it's a very reasonable question OP, and I find myself saying this all the time. I don't specifically care about when some games launch anymore, I just care when they come to Game Pass.

 

[ghostcrew]

I don't really feel like I hear this that often if I'm honest.

I think I probably hear it marginally more (and been guilty of saying it myself probably?) about AA kinda size games from publishers who've put a lot of stuff on Game Pass. You can kinda see the patterns sometimes.

But indies? Feels like they either hit Game Pass or, if not, people are generally happy to buy them if they're getting buzz. Either way the devs are getting paid.

 

[The Lord of Cereal]

Nah, if the Indie game is getting enough recognition that people say "oh I will wait until it hits Gamepass" then it's probably successful enough. If it's on Switch then even doubly so I feel

 

[Kholdy]

Hmm, since I don't have access to GP (PS/SW owner), a game that releases at GP and other platforms is instantly a no-buy until heavily discounted on my platform of choice.

It's weird because I'm not even in their ecosystem but still affects my purchase decision!

 

[fanboy]

I don't really think it's that different than "I'll wait for a sale"

If something seems really promising to a potential buyer, they'll buy it.

Click to shrink...

Devs are always getting at least some money from the sale.. if you know you are going to buy certain game in the future, there is already fixed profit for the dev/pub.

But if you dont plan on buying it at all and you are have decided to just wait for GamePass, there is some lost profit already.

 

[24thFrame]

Devs are always getting at least some money from the sale.. if you know you are going to buy certain game in the future, there is already fixed profit for the dev/pub.

But if you dont plan on buying it at all and you are have decided to just wait for GamePass, there is some lost profit already.

Click to shrink...

Most indie devs said they're very happy with the amount of money MS pays them for a GP deal.

 

[Bansai]

For me it's usually "I'll wait till it's on gamepass to check it out", but that just means I'd never actually buy it anyway.

 

[Deleted member 76797]

It used to be Ill wait for the Humble Bundle. Indie games are doing better than ever so I guess not.

 

[gabegabe]

Hmm, since I don't have access to GP (PS/SW owner), a game that releases at GP and other platforms is instantly a no-buy until heavily discounted on my platform of choice.

It's weird because I'm not even in their ecosystem but still affects my purchase decision!

Click to shrink...

I'm curious, why is that?

 

[MCD]

Game pass + Gold gives me discount + apparently just playing the game once gives the dev money so win-win situation all around for everyone?

Sustainability!

 

[24thFrame]

Hmm, since I don't have access to GP (PS/SW owner), a game that releases at GP and other platforms is instantly a no-buy until heavily discounted on my platform of choice.

It's weird because I'm not even in their ecosystem but still affects my purchase decision!

Click to shrink...

What are some games you chose not to buy because you knew they were available on game pass?

 

[Dogui]

99% of indie games never got on GP for starters, so you must be really lucky when the one you actually want to play is there.

Atleast most of my fav indies never got into the service. GP is great to try things you wouldn't consider otherwise but if you're hyped about a game that will release, i don't think it's a good idea to wait for something that's not even likely to happen.

You/your friends aren't exactly interested in said games imo.

 

[asmith906]

The same thing was said about indie bundles but they don't seem to hurt sales all that much.
If people want to play a game usually they will buy it on release date.

 

[TitanicFall]

It's synonymous with "I'll wait for a Steam sale."

 

[nsilvias]

if your waiting for a game to be "free" you never actually had a genuine interest in the game

 

[fanboy]

Most indie devs said they're very happy with the amount of money MS pays them for a GP deal.

Click to shrink...

Yeah I know about this. But there are dozens of indie games launching every month, everybody in the monthly eshop thread knows what I am talking about. How many of those games are getting to Game Pass?

Thats what I qas refferin to in the end of my OP with:
Is this going to reach an era, when will indie developers "fight" for the place on Game Pass in fear of players overlooking their games or straight up not buying them? And we know that launch sales are really important, especially for indies with little to no backing and low finances, never mind the Covid era on top of it. What are your thoughts on this?

Anyway, thanks for all of your kind responses and thoughts about this. Have a nice discussion! :)

if your waiting for a game to be "free" you never actually had a genuine interest in the game

Click to shrink...

I am spending hundreds of euros on games every year, I think I made that clear in the OP. With Game Pass I am just more keen to waiting if they appear on the service. I am subscribing to it mainly due to indies, so it doesnt make sense for me anymore to "double dip" (in a lot cases within one platform), if you know what I mean.

 

[werezompire]

I feel like with GamePass and indies, either they're on the service when they launch or they're not going to show up at all.

Honestly, I'd say the bigger "threat" would be people waiting for indies to show up as freebies on EGS. I've seen a lot of big indie games show up there after they've been out for a while so I could totally see people just using that for their indie fix.

Of course, as an indie, your ultimate goal is to make a game of such high quality that's different enough from other games so that people are happy to buy it and don't want to wait in the off-chance it shows up on a subscription service or in a freebie.

 

[Kholdy]

I'm curious, why is that?

Click to shrink...

Guess I feel like I'm being ripped off if I pay full price.

For example, I never picked any of the FF ports even though I love FF (FFVII port was day one)

 

[Lewpy]

Not releasing on the Xbox hurts indie. The amount of indies that just go PS/Switch is more than it should be.

Also, any indie I play on GP that I don't already own, I wouldn't have bought anyway. However, if I do end up really liking it, I'll buy it. So there's an argument that GP fosters additional sales.

 

[sredgrin]

I mean, no?

Go look at the top selling games on steam right now. 4/5 are indies, and 1 is a DLC.

Dealhunters are a vocal minority.

 

[Jon God]

On Xbox? I can see it.

On PC? Debatable, depends on the longterm success of GP on PC.

On PS4/5/Switch? Not likely to have any affect.

 

[Dogui]

Most indie devs said they're very happy with the amount of money MS pays them for a GP deal.

Click to shrink...

I think this is more about the games that would never get a GP deal with MS to begin with rather than the ones that will.

 

[Nephtes]

For what it's worth, I might not be the best person to discuss this since by and in large I don't buy indie games...

But I've certainly played a few now since I have access to them on GamePass like Untitled Goose Game and Xeno Crisis.

These are things I would not have played at all had I not had access to them on GamePass.

I guess what I'm saying is indies aren't losing money from me by not being on GamePass. But they could be gaining money from Microsoft if they were...

 

[trashbandit]

If the Indie game is on Switch it'll be okay. They sell like crazy over there it seems

Click to shrink...

I feel like the narrative has shifted in the last year or so to be that it's pretty hard to sell well on the eShop now.

With respect to the OP: it might hurt launch sales, but I think the more valuable question is whether or not "waiting for gamepass" ends up hurting indie devs or not, and right now it doesn't seem to. In a non-gamepass environment, launch sales tend to make up the lions share of the dev's profit(or lack thereof), but I don't know if launch day sales are still vitally important for indies that are on gamepass.

 

[Mr.Deadshot]

With prime, humblebundle, free epic games, fanatical bundles and deep, deep discounts this has been a thing forever at least for me. I don't think I ever bought an indie game at full price on PC.

 

[ryushe]

If it's a choice between gamepass or the Switch, baring any technical problems, I will pick Switch everytime.

So, no?

 

[fanboy]

99% of indie games never got on GP for starters, so you must be really lucky when the one you actually want to play is there.

Atleast most of my fav indies never got into the service. GP is great to try things you wouldn't consider otherwise but if you're hyped about a game that will release, i don't think it's a good idea to wait for something that's not even likely to happen.

You/your friends aren't exactly interested in said games imo.

Click to shrink...

I disagree. I played something like 100 games this year already (its like this since 2015) and yet I downloaded like 70 games from gamepass in the last few months. Everytime they add some indie games, there is at least one and in some cases 2 games that I wanted to buy for my Switch.

 

[nekkid]

I think eventually it will start hurting games not on Game Pass, where subscribers would rather play something else or wait in case it joins later.

 

[Krombopulos_MK]

 

[Deleted member 2533]

Logically, you'd think gamepass would suppress sales, but there have been more than a few examples of game sales increasing with gamepass.

Phil Spencer: Putting AAA games in Game Pass leads to a significant increase in sales

I noticed this in the new interview. https://youtu.be/Z5y0OvZgcIs

www.resetera.com

Xbox Game Pass leading to increased sales - Descenders developer

Great to see XGP having such a positive effect for these devs. I'm sure there's numerous cases like this as well.

www.resetera.com

Indie Dev Says Switch Sales Increased After Their Game Went To Xbox Game Pass

SMG Studio has been tracking Nintendo Switch sales for their game Death Squared to see how different sales and events have impacted it, and one spike is surprising.

www.gamespot.com

 

[Lobster Roll]

Haven't Indie developers spoken to the fact that being present on GamePass significantly increased their sales? I'm sure your average Indie developer would kill to be featured on GamePass.

 

[Garrett 2U]

GamePass subscribers play more games and spend more money on games.
GamePass is already sustainable to Microsoft.

Spend less time concerning, spend more time enjoying games.

 

[MCD]

I feel like with GamePass and indies, either they're on the service when they launch or they're not going to show up at all.

Honestly, I'd say the bigger "threat" would be people waiting for indies to show up as freebies on EGS. I've seen a lot of big indie games show up there after they've been out for a while so I could totally see people just using that for their indie fix.

Of course, as an indie, your ultimate goal is to make a game of such high quality that's different enough from other games so that people are happy to buy it and don't want to wait in the off-chance it shows up on a subscription service or in a freebie.

Click to shrink...

Can you please bless us with Cosmic Star Heroine on Xbox?

Please?

 

[Dogui]

I disagree. I played something like 100 games this year already (its like this since 2015) and yet I downloaded like 70 games from gamepass in the last few months. Everytime they add some indie games, there is at least one and in some cases 2 games that I wanted to buy for my Switch.

Click to shrink...

You probably are not into any specific niche if there isn't a lot of indie games on your wishlist not on GP.

I think tiny indie devs that does really specific games, either have a common playerbase that will want to play the games asap or just don't make money regardless of GP's existence (And would never get a deal to get into GP ftm).

It could be a problem for bigger indies, but how many of these even flop? And to the ones flopping, how do we know people didn't got them because they were waiting for it to be on GP?

Any example of games you're interested but is waiting for it to reach GP? I think some games are more likely than others to get a deal based on their visuals or overall accessibility.

 

[Faceless_Caesar]

There are no guarantees that any of those games are going to be available on the service. If I want to buy it but not at launch I'd wait for it to be on sale.

 

[Kalor]

I don't think so. You see the same thing come up with PS Plus but I don't think it impacts sales too much. Generally the consumers who think along those lines are the minority. And there have been examples of Gamepass helping sales, or devs at least being happy with the money because the game didn't do well elsewhere.

 

[Deleted member 10629]

I remember a time where people wouldn't buy games in case it came out on PS Plus

 

[PaulLFC]

I don't think we'll know until a dev says one way or the other how their non-Game Pass game did.

There's also other services that can lead people to wait as well as Game Pass - I'll admit as a Humble Choice subscriber, I've sometimes looked at a game I'm interested in (even non-indie games) and gone "It'll probably be in Humble Choice in a few months". A few times I've also bought games that have been in bundles or Humble Choice like a few weeks later, which adds to the hesitancy.

I think fewer big discounts play into this too. Remember the early years of Steam sales where they had flash sales and you could get games at like 80% off for 6 hours? It might be nostalgia talking but it felt like 75% off was a common discount back then. I think I bought the THQ pack (old THQ before they went bankrupt) for like 85% off, an absolute bargain for the amount of games it included. Now, it seems like most games don't even hit 50% off until a long time after launch, and 75% is even rarer. As such, people may choose to wait to get games in bundles or as part of subscription services in order to save money - this for me applies even more to "AAA" games because they're now ~£70 and it's going to be very rare I'll pay that much for a game.

 

[Everlasting_Cyclone]

You can say that about the "I'll just wait for the (console/PC) port." Crowd. But I don't think it's that deep op

 

[gothmog]

Based on my own personal experiences I could see it hurting launch sales. I wouldn't say I got burned, but I think I bought Void Bastards and Slay The Spire within like two weeks of them being announced on GP. So now I wait a bit before buying any new indie game.

 

[disco_potato]

In terms of indies and lesser known games, I'm sure GP gives them the exposure to expand sales. Most of them probably wouldn't be even considered without the option to first check them out for "free".