Is the full Backwards Compatibility dream from this gen to next dead for both Xbox and PlayStation?

[BAD]

I wrongly assumed for a long time that everything this gen can play will work on next gen. "They're like PCs now!" they said.

But suddenly the press blog by Playstation themselves and every professional site has reported that PS5 is using a dreadful whitelisting program for PS4. Some are insisting every professional and the blog wording are wrong! But ok. Whitelists always fail to get everything.

"We recently took a look at the top 100 PS4 titles as ranked by play time, and we're expecting almost all of them to be playable at launch on PS5."

There's absolutely no other object of the sentence where they say what is playable at launch. It refers to 100 games and structurally just doesn't apply elsewhere. So please don't pretend you heard "all PS4 games work" or "you can play your whole PS4 library" because you didn't. They didn't say it and it's no better than "They didn't say only PS4 so how does this mean there's no PS3 BC coming?"

Devastating. Now I have to keep PS4.

...But then I thought, have I been too generous with reading Xbox's comments too? I had.

They haven't promised every game. They have said Xbox One games will work, but not every game. "Thousands" but not all. From the blog a few weeks ago:

`Backward Compatibility – At Xbox, we've made a promise to compatibility: you can expect thousands of your favorite games across four generations of gaming, your Xbox One gaming accessories, your Xbox gaming legacy, and industry-leading services like Xbox Game Pass to work with Xbox Series X. Backward compatible games will benefit from the power and performance of Xbox Series X, resulting in steadier framerates, faster load times, improved resolution and visual fidelity. Fans and game creators can feel confident they will be able to play and create the best.

What You Can Expect From the Next Generation of Gaming - Xbox Wire

The future of gaming has never been more inspiring. Creativity in games is flourishing. New services empower you to discover more games—and bring you closer to the games and creators and streamers you love. The cloud creates a massive opportunity to stream console-quality games and play with the...

news.xbox.com

I'd love to read this as promising all Xbox One games work... but that blog post doesn't go quite there. There's legal outs like saying "thousands."

But ok, you read my skepticism and think "he's crazy, it's promising every Xbox One game on day one."

I dug more and found Phil said this last month:

`"I'm trying it. It's in active development, sometimes it reboots. Not all the games today are completely compatible. We're working through our list of approved games on it. You can see what I'm playing; there's tons of games that work," Spencer said.

Xbox Series X: Phil Spencer Discusses How "Tons" Of Games Are Already Backwards Compatible With Console

Phil Spencer has been using an Xbox Series X as his daily console, and says that lots of previous Xbox games are now working with the new system.

www.gamespot.com

A pretty clear comment that they have to approve the games.

So I'm begging someone to show me I'm wrong and that Phil said this week EVERY or ALL Xbox One games.

 

[Wollan]

PS5 supports thousands of PS4 games (day one) through BC from my reading.

[My interpretation of Sony's text follows:] The sample size of 100 (most popular) games out of the 4000+ PS4 game library revealed that practically most of them were compatible. We're likely looking at thousands of compatible games here [if we assume similar ratio across the remaining 3900+ titles].

Click to shrink...

 

[BAD]

PS5 supports thousands of PS4 games (day one) through BC from my reading.

Click to shrink...

Who said that? The articles say the opposite and the official blog never says thousands or every game at all.

 

[Deleted member 21709]

Xbox is delivering this dream. But there will always be exceptions.

PS5 is a nightmare though.

 

[Windu]

Idk, from all I have heard from Microsoft its their plan to support everything that can run on the Xbox One day one. Maybe some Kinect titles don't make the cut. As for Sony, it seems like they want to support everything on PS4 but it might take some time to test everything so it will be a slow rollout.

 

[WhoaIsThatMars]

we haven't even gotten the reveal yet so I'd wait. Anyways, what Cerny said very much seemed like "we don't want to make promises just yet." imo

 

[Wollan]

Who said that? The articles say the opposite and the official blog never says thousands or every game at all.

Click to shrink...

The articles read the same Sony delivered text as you and me but chose to interpret it a certain way.

 

[Rosebud]

I'm done buying multiplats on consoles, they will never be Steam.

 

[Starlatine]

You can't have all games from x1 because it will be impossible in some cases. Like Kinect games.
Other than these fringe cases, the commitment and promise is to have everything else yes and i will ask them for it accordingly.

 

[PowerThroughLov]

I mean if we are going to complain about 95% back-compat we can do the same for PC. There are the occasional PC games that will not run properly anymore due to some Windows updates and such. 95% is pretty gosh-darn good.

 

[Deleted member 35071]

unless BC is implemented at a hardware level. U wont get full BC. It will always be pick and choose.
Honestly im still baffled how Xbox got Fight Night as BC? Because thats a game that involves likenesses.

about half of my 360 library is playable on XB1 rn. The hold outs being all the sports games....Skyrim and the Marvel Ultimate Alliance games. Which i assume was because they wanted to force u into the buying the remasters of them.

 

[BAD]

I mean if we are going to complain about 95% back-compat we can do the same for PC. There are the occasional PC games that will not run properly anymore due to some Windows updates and such. 95% is pretty gosh-darn good.

Click to shrink...

Where did anyone promise even "almost" every game? I'd be happy to read it but I'm seeing vague numbers that can amount to less than half of Xbox One games and a miniscule list of PS4 games.

 

[Komo]

PS5 supports thousands of PS4 games (day one) through BC from my reading.

Click to shrink...

It does not. they tested 100 games and not even all of them ran. They will go past 100 once they all run and will slowly approve more to come out.

 

[PowerThroughLov]

Where did anyone promise even "almost" every game? I'd be happy to read it but I'm seeing vague numbers that can amount to less than half of Xbox One games and a miniscule list of PS4 games.

Click to shrink...

Noone. But its my personal expectation for Xbox One. Their VM system approach should make emulation much much easier and I would imagine they end up around there (but its just my thoughts).

 

[DarkChronic]

It's a bummer for sure. Thankfully I still have a launch PS3 hooked up that I use as my Playstation "backwards compatibility" machine.

 

[Sphinx]

I think you want someone to tell you the truth you don't want to acknowledge:

you were expecting to insert your PS4/X1 discs (or import your digital library) and have everything magically work as if the new consoles have a PS4/X1 inside (like OG PS3 with PS2 BC)

No, that's not gonna happen.

 

[Wollan]

It does not. they tested 100 games and not even all of them ran. They will go past 100 once they all run and will slowly approve more to come out.

Click to shrink...

You have to look at the ratio. They tested a sample of 100 games out of 4000+. Who knows how many of those 3900+ remaining titles work.

 

[johan]

PS5 supports thousands of PS4 games (day one) through BC from my reading.

Click to shrink...

This seems likely. Also PS5 is still months away.

Also, regarding PS3 and earlier gens BC: this would be done through software emulation and would not necessarily be talked about in a hardware talk like Cerny did yesterday.

 

[Phantom]

I hoped to be able to unload my PSX/PS2/PS3 collection for next-gen. Alas it seems I'll have to hold on for a while...

 

[Kida]

PS5 supports thousands of PS4 games (day one) through BC from my reading.

Click to shrink...

You can't quote yourself for proof.

 

[angel_deamon]

XSX is NOT in the same category as the PS5 in BC

 

[RBH]

You can't quote yourself for proof.

Click to shrink...

lmao

 

[hikarutilmitt]

Note that at least with the video yesterday with the PS5, he said a sampling not "this is it" meaning, quite clearly, he meant that is what they tested for initial findings. It may be a whitelisting thing, but they never said it was a whitelisting thing. It may just be that all games can be tried and some may exhibit weird issues like texture glitching or crashes. It happens, I'm not worried.

MS almost has no excuse since they're using Windows on the Xbox and the systems have been treated as PC hardware in general. Only games that outright use features baked directly to hardware of the One could potentially have issues. PS5 is likely also still using a BSD-based system.

 

[salromano]

What Mark Cerny said during the actual presentation was different from what the PlayStation Blog wrote:

"Running PS4 and PS4 titles at boosted frequencies has also added complexity. The boost is truly massive this time around and some game code just can't handle it. Testing has to be done on a title-by-title basis. Results are excellent, though. We recently took a look at the top 100 PlayStation 4 titles as ranked by play time and we're expecting all of them to be playable at launch on PlayStation 5. "

Click to shrink...

To me that reads as: most titles will be playable, but there may be some that need tweaking to work properly.

Anyway, still holding out hope for legacy BC even though it's a stupid dream. If it exists there'd have been no need to mention it yesterday as all talk was developer-focused.

 

[jon bones]

I feel way more confident that XSX will deliver the BC/Smart Delivery system I am looking for.

 

[KillingJoke]

It does not. they tested 100 games and not even all of them ran. They will go past 100 once they all run and will slowly approve more to come out.

Click to shrink...

That's not how he said it. He didn't say only 100 games were tested. He's just saying the majority of the top popular games will be. Basically there will probably be alot of games not ready but assuring us atleast the most popular will.

Results are excellent, though. We recently took a look at the 100 top PlayStation 4 titles as ranked by playtime, and we're expecting almost all of them to be playable at launch on PlayStation 5."

Click to shrink...

 

[Dazraell]

Who said that? The articles say the opposite and the official blog never says thousands or every game at all.

Click to shrink...

Cerny said that during "Road to PS5". He said they will offer built-in BC in PS5 for PS4 games and they tested around 100 games if this is working properly. Most of them worked without any issues. Some of those had some issues, but you can run them. They may require to be patched-in by devs themselves to be fully stable, but I don't think they will artifically limit players to run them.

 

[AR Starts]

Xbox will support everything that runs on Xbox One.

For Xbox One:

• X enhanced titles will run just as well as they do on One X.
• Select titles that never got a X Enhanced patch will even be rendered at 4K or have added HDR. Gears Ultimate and Halo 5 were both shown to showcase these technologies. This can be done without any work from the games developers all done by the BC team and the tech they have created.
• Developers will also have the ability to patch titles to take advantage of Series X hardware much in the same way that they do with Pro or One X today. Gears 5 was already shown with some Series X enhancements.

For 360:

• Titles will continue to run as they do on One X. This has resulted in better frame rates and load times on some games "out of the box".
• Select X Enhanced titles that were upgraded to 4K on One X will continue to run at 4K on Series X (Halo 3 and Witcher 2 are examples of these titles)

For OG:

• Titles will run at 4K as they do on One X.
• Select titles could even get HDR added as was shown with Fusion Frenzy this week.

I am really excited about what MSFT has done with Xbox and BC. COD MWR and Battlefield 4 are two examples of games that I hope get enhancements since they never did on One X. I also think that with the end of the generation cycle and BC really coming in full force that these MP games can survive for years. Will be even better for newer games as cross play becomes a standard feature.

For PS4:

• 100 titles supported now with more to come after launch

I would be willing to bet that the Xbox was designed and planned with BC in mind from the beginning both on the hardware and software front whereas the PS5 was likely not designed for this and it only became important later in the development of the machine. It seems like the prior leadership team at Sony wasn't as interested in BC but the current Sony leadership seems committed to BC (and other great things like Crossplay and PC) and I believe that they will deliver on BC, just not at launch. It would have been great to see PS1-3 BC as well but that was a largely unreasonable expectation . I would be thrilled with the ability to just purchase those games digitally if they went the no disc route. The titles stuck on the PS1 and 2 are fewer and far between with all of the great ports out there but there are still a lot of great games stuck on PS3.

BC and continuing beyond the generation cycle is something that will be hugely important both for first and third parties as we see more variety in F2P, GaaS, Subscriptions like Now/GamePass, and cross play. Sony is certainly behind in this area at the moment but BC is something I have faith in Sony to deliver. I think Xbox will continue to have the edge given all of the enhancement work they do and 3 generations of BC. It will be great to have both consoles with full BC going forward.

 

[Deleted member 36578]

Honestly I've ran into old PC games that don't work by running way to fast , or there's some other weird issue. My friend rebuilt an old computer just to get Interstate 76 working properly. Figuring out how to fix it yourself is possible at least , but this is just the reality of backwards compatible software.

 

[Deleted member 437]

How can pc go back 30 years, but 1 gen console bc just shits the bed?

I don't get. There are millions of pc configurations.

 

[mclem]

So I'm begging someone to show me I'm wrong and that Phil said this week EVERY or ALL Xbox One games.

Click to shrink...

Given we're talking about an incomplete product at this point, I'd be very suspicious of any official statement that sounded quite that certain; there's likely to be many tiny incompatabilities between hardware, they can't make categoric statements at this point that any such odd incompatibility might not break certain games.

How can pc go back 30 years, but 1 gen console bc just shits the bed?

I don't get. There are millions of pc configurations.

Click to shrink...

Given I've been struggling to get Mafia 1 modded to run properly on my system recently... it's not *that* simple for PC either.

Honestly I've ran into old PC games that don't work by running way to fast , or there's some other weird issue. My friend rebuilt an old computer just to get Interstate 76 working properly. Figuring out how to fix it yourself is possible at least , but this is just the reality of backwards compatible software.

Click to shrink...

A really fun one is the original version of The 7th Guest. One of the puzzles is actually a strategy game (Quite a well-known one, a version of Ataxx, but it's got several names) against an AI which - and I'm simplifying things greatly here - spends a set time comparing various moves before playing one. On modern PCs, though that time remains the same... but the AI gets through testing *way* more of the movement space before it runs out, which ends up making the AI impossible to realistically beat!

Recent updates and rereleases have fixed the AI, but it's an interesting quirk that's not *necessarily* easy to anticipate when you aren't looking at the underlying code; that's absolutely something that wouldn't necessarily show up during a quick basic test, but it *does* make the game impossible to play through.

 

[Deleted member 36578]

A really fun one is the original version of The 7th Guest. One of the puzzles is actually a strategy game (Quite a well-known one, a version of Ataxx, but it's got several names) against an AI which - and I'm simplifying things greatly here - spends a set time comparing various moves before playing one. On modern PCs, though that time remains the same... but the AI gets through testing *way* more of the movement space before it runs out, which ends up making the AI impossible to realistically beat!

Recent updates and rereleases have fixed the AI, but it's an interesting quirk that's not *necessarily* easy to anticipate when you aren't looking at the underlying code; that's absolutely something that wouldn't necessarily show up during a quick basic test, but it *does* make the game impossible to play through.

Click to shrink...

Lol that's kind of amazing, thanks for sharing it :)

 

[Komo]

You have to look at the ratio. They tested a sample of 100 games out of 4000+. Who knows how many of those 3900+ remaining titles work.

Click to shrink...

I doubt many of them will. This is gonna require a lot of work on Sonys part.

 

[Deleted member 20297]

How can pc go back 30 years, but 1 gen console bc just shits the bed?

I don't get. There are millions of pc configurations.

Click to shrink...

Low-level APIs say hi.

 

[Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric]

Hasn't MS already confirmed pretty much every XB1 game will run on the new hardware without a hitch?

That places MS way ahead of Sony in regards to BC.

 

[Noble]

I wrongly assumed for a long time that everything this gen can play will work on next gen. "They're like PCs now!" they said.

But suddenly the press blog by Playstation themselves and every professional site has reported that PS5 is using a dreadful whitelisting program for PS4. Some are insisting every professional and the blog wording are wrong! But ok. Whitelists always fail to get everything.

"We recently took a look at the top 100 PS4 titles as ranked by play time, and we're expecting almost all of them to be playable at launch on PS5."

There's absolutely no other object of the sentence where they say what is playable at launch. It refers to 100 games and structurally just doesn't apply elsewhere. So please don't pretend you heard "all PS4 games work" or "you can play your whole PS4 library" because you didn't. They didn't say it and it's no better than "They didn't say only PS4 so how does this mean there's no PS3 BC coming?"

Devastating. Now I have to keep PS4.

...But then I thought, have I been too generous with reading Xbox's comments too? I had.

They haven't promised every game. They have said Xbox One games will work, but not every game. "Thousands" but not all. From the blog a few weeks ago:

`Backward Compatibility – At Xbox, we've made a promise to compatibility: you can expect thousands of your favorite games across four generations of gaming, your Xbox One gaming accessories, your Xbox gaming legacy, and industry-leading services like Xbox Game Pass to work with Xbox Series X. Backward compatible games will benefit from the power and performance of Xbox Series X, resulting in steadier framerates, faster load times, improved resolution and visual fidelity. Fans and game creators can feel confident they will be able to play and create the best.

What You Can Expect From the Next Generation of Gaming - Xbox Wire

The future of gaming has never been more inspiring. Creativity in games is flourishing. New services empower you to discover more games—and bring you closer to the games and creators and streamers you love. The cloud creates a massive opportunity to stream console-quality games and play with the...

news.xbox.com

I'd love to read this as promising all Xbox One games work... but that blog post doesn't go quite there. There's legal outs like saying "thousands."

But ok, you read my skepticism and think "he's crazy, it's promising every Xbox One game on day one."

I dug more and found Phil said this last month:

`"I'm trying it. It's in active development, sometimes it reboots. Not all the games today are completely compatible. We're working through our list of approved games on it. You can see what I'm playing; there's tons of games that work," Spencer said.

Xbox Series X: Phil Spencer Discusses How "Tons" Of Games Are Already Backwards Compatible With Console

Phil Spencer has been using an Xbox Series X as his daily console, and says that lots of previous Xbox games are now working with the new system.

www.gamespot.com

A pretty clear comment that they have to approve the games.

So I'm begging someone to show me I'm wrong and that Phil said this week EVERY or ALL Xbox One games.

Click to shrink...

Microsoft has confirmed all generations will be back compat (for Xbox and Xbox 360 only the titles currently compatible, for Xbox One all games)

Also are you trolling?
The source you quote is quite clear:

• Four generations of gaming: Our commitment to compatibility means existing Xbox One games, including backward-compatible Xbox 360 and original Xbox games, look and play better than ever before. Your favorite games, including titles in Xbox Game Pass, benefit from steadier framerates, faster load times and improved resolution and visual fidelity – all with no developer work required. Your Xbox One gaming accessories also come forward with you.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Regarding Sony, it's not clear, they still haven't clarified on their messaging yesterday but it's clear that some games will be BC.
With MS, it's clear they are all in and hundreds and hundreds of games will be playable on the Next Xbox day 1, lumping them in with Sony at this point in your title is click bait and reeks of damage control

 

[CrimsonNocturne]

About PS5:

They were very clear that most games will work, but a few will act funny.

They never said there would be a whitelist or blacklist.

It seems that you can put any game you want in and it will work, but a small minority of games may behave weirdly. Just like with PS2 or the early PS3 models.

 

[cyrribrae]

Microsoft has repeatedly (since like a year ago) said that they will support full compatibility of Xbox One games on Series X. Barring some edge cases like Kinect games (and they still haven't technically ruled those out), they've said that was the goal as far back as when they closed down 360 BC to focus on next gen about a year ago. Phil Spencer was giving you an update on progress, not a vision for the future.

That said, you are correct that they aren't promising full compatibility 100%. The difference is that we know they've TESTED thousands of games already and are actively working on them. I imagine Sony will get there too. Maybe. Like they got there this gen. Kinda. It's just a matter of investment. Sony could absolutely could there, they have the engineers - they just need to spend the time and money.

 

[BAD]

Microsoft has confirmed all generations will be back compat (for Xbox and Xbox 360 only the titles currently compatible, for Xbox One all games)

Also are you trolling?
The source you quote is quite clear:

• Four generations of gaming: Our commitment to compatibility means existing Xbox One games, including backward-compatible Xbox 360 and original Xbox games, look and play better than ever before. Your favorite games, including titles in Xbox Game Pass, benefit from steadier framerates, faster load times and improved resolution and visual fidelity – all with no developer work required. Your Xbox One gaming accessories also come forward with you.

Click to shrink...

Microsoft has repeatedly (since like a year ago) said that they will support full compatibility of Xbox One games on Series X. Barring some edge cases like Kinect games (and they still haven't technically ruled those out), they've said that was the goal as far back as when they closed down 360 BC to focus on next gen about a year ago. Phil Spencer was giving you an update on progress, not a vision for the future.

Click to shrink...

I guess I'm missing the source that says "all" or "every" - link?

 

[Yearsoflurking]

Microsoft has repeatedly (since like a year ago) said that they will support full compatibility of Xbox One games on Series X. Barring some edge cases like Kinect games (and they still haven't technically ruled those out), they've said that was the goal as far back as when they closed down 360 BC to focus on next gen about a year ago. Phil Spencer was giving you an update on progress, not a vision for the future.

Click to shrink...

This besides maybe kinect games

 

[SmartWaffles]

If PS5 actually has all PS4 games BC at launch not just 100 you'd expect them to come out right away to clean that up as it's positive PR. They haven't, which tells you what it is.

 

[VanWinkle]

While I would love to see PS3 and even earlier gens work on PS5, I at least really want the vast majority of PS4 games to work. I really expected them all to work, because it sure seems like all XB1 games work on Series X.

 

[Rowsdower]

I'm guessing yes. I still have 360 games that are not compatible with the One, and OG Xbox games that are not compatible with the One or the X. At this point, getting 50% of your library is good enough I feel.

Honestly, no platform has 100% BC. I think the closest was the PS3 with PS1 game; I believe almost all of them worked.

And of course PC/Steam.

 

[ConanEdogawa]

I feel bad for all the digital PS4 purchases made with the assumption they'd carry over and be playable on PS5. A lot of people seemed to take it for granted. I'll continue buying physical on PS5 whenever possible so the option is there to sell later if need be. Sony seems okay with letting Microsoft have backwards compatibility as a big selling point and not trying to match them.

 

[xem]

If PS5 actually has all PS4 games BC at launch not just 100 you'd expect them to come out right away to clean that up as it's positive PR. They haven't, which tells you what it is.

Click to shrink...

devils advocate:
maybe they are waiting until they can show you instead of just clarifying via a twitter post or blog entry. ie: they working on videos and game comparisons in a presentation format suitable for consumers that this GDC talk was lacking in.

 

[Seppala]

This besides maybe kinect games

Click to shrink...

I would think that the adapter they released at the same time as One X (or was it even One S?) would work with Series X. Too bad they do not produce those anymore.

 

[etta]

Wait so is it all PS4 games available on PS5 with just 100 being boosted, or just 100 available in entirety?

 

[CloseTalker]

I wouldn't be surprised if MS pulls some crazy move in a couple years that allows every old-gen disc to run on an XSX

 

[Godzilla24]

MS is probably referring to Kinect games OP. BC is a sublime on xbox ecosystem.