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Is the engine start/stop a gimmick car manufactures use to inflate mpg?

JealousKenny

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
1,231
I rent cars frequently as I travel about 50% for work and I make it a point to note which cars have this eco engine start/stop feature which cuts off the engine when you are stopped then cuts it back on when you press the gas. It makes the driving experience God awful anytime you aren't on the open road.

Is this something manufacturers are using to meet increased mpg requirements? If so all it does is piss off drivers and make us look for ways to cut it off. I'm in the market for a new vehicle and any car that has this shit is immediately crossed off my list.
 
Randam

Randam

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,882
Germany
What cars are you driving?
Just yesterday I drove my father's 2019 Volkswagen and you don't really notice it. Even driving through the rush hour in a city.
 
nekkid

nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
My start/stop is pretty seamless tbh. It also uses GPS to determine whether it's better not to do it (entry to a roundabout, for example).
 

Deleted member 15737

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,432
Ohhhh this is a thing? Cuz I had been noticing cars starting their engines on green light a lot lately. I just thought there was a new trend of turning your car off at intersections.

I think it would annoy me.
 
ieu

ieu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
254
Mid Wales
All electric vehicles are stop start by nature, so take the plunge OP. By the time battery life becomes a concern your lease will be over.
 
Slipknot666

Slipknot666

Banned
Dec 1, 2017
1,716
More harm than good. Starting causes the most wear on engines and you car is doing it at every stop. Garbage feature



Turn it off if you can.
 
kvetcha

kvetcha

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,835
JealousKenny said:
I rent cars frequently as I travel about 50% for work and I make it a point to note which cars have this eco engine start/stop feature which cuts off the engine when you are stopped then cuts it back on when you press the gas. It makes the driving experience God awful anytime you aren't on the open road.

Is this something manufacturers are using to meet increased mpg requirements? If so all it does is piss off drivers and make us look for ways to cut it off. I'm in the market for a new vehicle and any car that has this shit is immediately crossed off my list.
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It is a fuel economy and emissions feature, yes. I also dislike it, but it has a meaningful impact on city mileage.
 

Chakoo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,840
Toronto, Canada
It depends on the vehicle it's implemented in. For mine, it only cuts out while I hold the break and springs back as soon as I let go and does not go back into off unless I drove for a bit. It also reduces engine output which reduces fuel usage. I try to use it while on streets but not on highways where I more notice the sluggish response.
 

Deleted member 2625

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,596
that's the opposite of what I've read. modern cars, the amount of fuel used is something like 10 seconds of idling

as for "wear and tear" I believe that's an old argument as well but I am open to enlightenment (in text form plz)

my dad's big luxe pickup truck does this but it seems so effortless, you barely hear it kick out/in.
 

Lightus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,138
I like the idea of it but the implementation on my Kia is bad.

The AC drops down to basically nothing when it activates and since I live in Florida it gets hot in the car very shortly after. As a result the engine kicks back on after literally a handful of seconds as it has a built-in feature to start back up if the temp changes too quickly. Meaning at a red light I spend a couple seconds being uncomfortable then it cranks back up to idle the rest of the light, negating the benefits.

Also, it doesn't seem to do any sort of location detection before shutting off. I've had it shut off just as I'm preparing to cross traffic left at a light a few too many times for me to feel comfortable.
 
Draconestra

Draconestra

Avenger
Nov 2, 2017
648
The family Jeep has this feature. When I drove it for the first time, it was so bizarre. The car turned off and I thought I did something wrong to it. My brother told me it was fuel saving feature, but I'm not sure how much fuel you'd be saving since it does it at every single stop.
 

Figgles

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,568
I've only driven one car with it, and it wasn't even remotely an issue. It stopped and started so quickly that after a bit I didn't even notice it.
 

Brandino

Banned
Jan 9, 2018
2,098
It's a little a noting when you dont start moving as quickly as you want. All in all it doesn't bother me though
 
SwampBastard

SwampBastard

The Fallen
Nov 1, 2017
11,038
Lightus said:
I like the idea of it but the implementation on my Kia is bad.

The AC drops down to basically nothing when it activates and since I live in Florida it gets hot in the car very shortly after. As a result the engine kicks back on after literally a handful of seconds as it has a built-in feature to start back up if the temp changes too quickly. Meaning at a red light I spend a couple seconds being uncomfortable then it cranks back up to idle the rest of the light, negating the benefits.
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I recently got a Kia Stinger that has this feature. If it's hot enough for me to have the AC cranked, I disable the engine auto off/on. Apart from that it has worked great.
 
Dixie Flatline

Dixie Flatline

alt account
Banned
Sep 4, 2019
1,892
New Orleans
OP, there are people in DC right now fighting against California to stop this being a mandatory feature. They'll probably be successful but it's going to take a while.
 
LakeEarth

LakeEarth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,177
Ontario
I have it on my Chevy Cruze and it sucks pretty hard as its not smooth at all. It can be really jerky when you only wanted to stop for a second. It'd be fine if I could control the feature (i.e. turn it on at a long red light, turn it off when I'm at a 4-way stop), but I can't so it's just this game of trying to come to a complete stop with the lightest brake touch so that it doesn't activate.

Though there is a trick to "disable" it (at least in my car): the "L" gear, or limit. Put it to L, and set it to max gear (so it'll drive like as normal). Auto-stop is only active in Drive. I rarely do this though cause it's a pain in the ass.
 
Elfotografoalocado

Elfotografoalocado

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,618
Spain
I think it's better on manual cars. It engages when you go into neutral and you let go of the clutch. So when the light is about to go green, you step on the clutch and put it into first as the engine fires up, and feel like the coolest guy on the road.
 
MrCheezball

MrCheezball

Banned
Aug 3, 2018
1,376
It's on my 2017 Fusion and I disable it every single time I drive. The shake of it reactivating is jarring.
 
Stinkles

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
I can turn mine on or off in the settings - but there's also a very easy analog cadence of brake pressure that stops it from happening - if for example you come to a complete stop but know the light is about to turn green. The numbers don't lie - the amount of pollution expelled is real and the amount of gas burned is real. Even when mine goes "fully off" - it takes a fraction of a second to have full torque from complete shutoff.
 
TAFAE

TAFAE

Member
Aug 27, 2018
439
Michigan
I'm an automotive engineer. I don't work on this feature directly, but do plenty of work on adjacent things. It provides a small increase in your MPG, which will be more noticeable if you do more city driving than highway driving. We (people at my company) have spent years testing the robustness of start-stop and the additional engine starts this adds to the vehicle lifetime, as well as redesigning parts that are affected by this. I would not worry about it wearing out your engine any faster.
 
OP
OP

JealousKenny

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
1,231
Nostremitus said:
Why would this bother you?
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Because depending on the vehicle there is a noticeable studder when you start back up. If you have ever had a car where the transmission is going out and the gears slip, it feels like that.

I don't like that jerky feeling.

For further clarification I'm currently driving a Jeep Compass and it's pretty bad.
 
turbobrick

turbobrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,081
Phoenix, AZ
Yeah, its there to save fuel. My cars are old so none of them have it, but I rented a Ford that had this feature and it was annoying so I just turned it off every time.
 
HellforLeather

HellforLeather

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,166
I mean, the engine is off so I guess it saves fuel. I dont understand how it doesnt burn out the starter though.
 

BAD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,565
USA
It's a terrible "feature" and I hate it. I am in Florida and have driven a few cars that do it and they all practically shut off the AC cooling when this kicks in. Trash.
 
finalflame

finalflame

Product Management
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,538
Works great if the implementation isn't shit. I've also never seen a car where it can't be turned off.
 
Nostremitus

Nostremitus

Member
Nov 15, 2017
7,777
Alabama
JealousKenny said:
Because depending on the vehicle there is a noticeable studder when you start back up. If you have ever had a car where the transmission is going out and the gears slip, it feels like that.

I don't like that jerky feeling.

For further clarification I'm currently driving a Jeep Compass and it's pretty bad.
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Oh ok, I get that. I drive a hybrid and never really notice it, the transition is unnoticeably smooth, but I get that a poor implementation would feel worrisome.
 
MonoStable

MonoStable

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,052
TAFAE said:
I'm an automotive engineer. I don't work on this feature directly, but do plenty of work on adjacent things. It provides a small increase in your MPG, which will be more noticeable if you do more city driving than highway driving. We (people at my company) have spent years testing the robustness of start-stop and the additional engine starts this adds to the vehicle lifetime, as well as redesigning parts that are affected by this. I would not worry about it wearing out your engine any faster.
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Curious to know what they've done to not essentially blow out the starter?
 
TAFAE

TAFAE

Member
Aug 27, 2018
439
Michigan
FreezeSSC said:
Curious to know what they've done to not essentially blow out the starter?
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In my company's case, vehicles with start-stop have a different starter designed to have many times more cycles/uses in its lifetime compared to the non-start-stop configurations. It's not meant to be something where we just expect the owner to have to replace the starter earlier than on other cars.
 
HellforLeather

HellforLeather

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,166
TAFAE said:
In my company's case, vehicles with start-stop have a different starter designed to have many times more cycles/uses in its lifetime compared to the non-start-stop configurations. It's not meant to be something where we just expect the owner to have to replace the starter earlier than on other cars.
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So the starter is just way more expensive then.
 
MonoStable

MonoStable

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,052
HellforLeather said:
So the starter is just way more expensive then.
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Most likely, though wonder what they do to mitigate other issues, these cars will probably work perfectly under warranty but after say 10 years I can see all kinds of problems creeping on, there's numerous different problems that can create a rough start condition and it would become a major issue instead of just an minor annoyance.
 
Zen

Zen

The Wise Ones
Member
Nov 1, 2017
9,658
It takes some getting used to and enthusiasts won't like it, but it does have a noticeable effect on fuel conservation.
 
HellforLeather

HellforLeather

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,166
FreezeSSC said:
Most likely, though wonder what they do to mitigate other issues, these cars will probably work perfectly under warranty but after say 10 years I can see all kinds of problems creeping on, there's numerous different problems that can create a rough start condition and it would become a major issue instead of just an minor annoyance.
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Well starting and stopping your engine constantly is not good for it. Plus...how much better are these starters? My starter cycles twice in a day, once when I am going to work and one when I come home (maybe once or twice if I go to lunch) but if you change that to cycling at ever stop light and stop sign that number goes up exponentially from roughly 4 cycles in a day to probably somewhere around 25-30 cycles in a day. Even if they are putting in higher quality starters designed for more cycle times....how many more? I agree with you that this will probably lead to more issues down the road.
 

Lightus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,138
snacknuts said:
I recently got a Kia Stinger that has this feature. If it's hot enough for me to have the AC cranked, I disable the engine auto off/on. Apart from that it has worked great.
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I have a Stinger as well. It works pretty well during winter but the rest of the year in FL I keep it off. The issues I have with it in traffic is only when I'm crossing traffic typically. There's often just enough traffic to force a full stop before accelerating. The full stop often triggers the engine cut off then I have a delay in accelerating due to the (admittedly short) time it takes to start back up. It's led to my window to cross across incoming traffic a bit shorter than I intended a few times. I could alter my driving habits to prevent it from triggering such as not fully depressing the pedal but at that point why have it on at all haha.

Happy it works for you though, it might just not work for me in my locale and with my driving habits.
 
GalaxyDive

GalaxyDive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,669
Yeah, it really depends on implementation. Somebody mentioned having a Chevy Cruze; my brother has one and I totally agree there. Its waaaaay too finnicky. When I've driven it sometimes, the auto stop will kick in instantly as soon as the car's at a stop, even if I'm ginger on the break because I'm gonna immediately release it.

I have a BMW 335i and it's a lot more seamless on that, plus there's a button right above the ignition that turns it off (newer ones may let you turn it off by default in the menu? I was under the impression that for reported MPG reasons, mine has to always default to starting in "comfort"/standard cruising mode with auto-stop on)
 
Pacote

Pacote

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,234
São Paulo
Is usually uses a more expensive battery then cars that dont have this feature.

Im ok as long as the car have a button to turn it off for those dont like it.
 
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