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How is success achieved?

  • Mostly through hard work

    Votes: 78 5.4%
  • Mostly through luck

    Votes: 449 31.3%
  • A balance of hard work and luck

    Votes: 897 62.6%
  • I'm just here for the video

    Votes: 10 0.7%

  • Total voters
    1,434

Forerunner

Resetufologist
The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
14,569



I generally don't make a thread just for a video, but this is the exception. It breaks down just how much luck plays into your success. It's definitely worth a watch (12 minutes) and shows that pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is a flawed concept.
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
It's both. Some people just completely luck out with hardly any work at all, but most successful people had to work hard to make it to the scenario where they lucked out.
 

Era Uma Vez

Member
Feb 5, 2020
3,204
Hardwork can only get you so far...
But you know what they say, even the people that win the lottery, had to go out and buy a ticket.
 

Boy

Member
Apr 24, 2018
4,556
Consistency and working smart(planning, learning from your failures, etc) . Hard work is fine, but hard work without any kind of plan or goals will keep you stagnated and keep you at sqaure one. I've seen it with many hard workers like my parents and other family members who work the same job for years with the mindset of just saving(and eventually end up spending the money on mindless things) rather than working on assets.
 
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BY2K

Membero Americo
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,682
Québec, Canada
Some are lucky, some actually did hard work, others got everything handed to them on a silver plate without having to lift a finger.
 

Spine Crawler

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,228
Work is the basis. Luck usually comes to people that try to do something. Now calling it hard work or not is subjective of course.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,904
It's majority luck. For every billionaire's idea that worked, there are thousands that didn't.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
You need both. But for the real lightning-in-a-bottle type of success, it's probably largely luck. Some people are just at the right place at the right time, and have the circumstances and resources to capitalize on something.
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,557
Both, but more so hard work. If you put the effort in you will usually go much further than if you don't.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
59,985
Of course lucks plays into it.

Let me give some gurus who preach hard work but where pretty privileged.

Dave Ramsey. Huge hardwork, bootstrap guy. What did he as his first job--real estate investor. His parents were real estate agents.

Gary Vee. Mega hustle preacher. First job? Working for his dad's liquor store business.

To Gary's credit, he did increase revenue many times over. But not many are born into family businesses.

In the opposite end, you have folks that are and don't care for it and squander it.

Then there's survivorship bias.

Both, but more so hard work. If you put the effort in you will usually go much further than if you don't.

Tons of janitors, people who work service jobs, truckers, and so on work hard and are never conventionally successful. Many even working multiple jobs.
 

Damaniel

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,535
Portland, OR
It's a mix, but I think on the whole that luck will get you further than hard work. If I have a great idea, I'm much more likely to be able to make something of it if I know people that will buy into it, or have a parent or well-off relative that can give me money to make it a reality. If you already have people in a position to help you succeed (whether through birth, connections or both), you're going to go way further than someone with equal or even better skill who has to do things from the ground up.

That's not to say that hard work and no luck won't get you anywhere - there's plenty of people who came from nothing and succeeded greatly - it's just that things are more stacked against you.
 

Kitsunebaby

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,655
Annapolis, Maryland
Haven't watched the video yet, but considering there are people working multiple jobs and barely scraping by, I'd say more than just hard work is needed to be successful in this society.
 

Septimus Prime

EA
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
8,500
I think luck drives the upper limit of your success, but hard work is what gets you to the high end of your potential.
 

Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,798
Why do we always talk about working hard and never bring up working smart?
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,904
Both, but more so hard work. If you put the effort in you will usually go much further than if you don't.

People who work low paying, menial, thankless jobs are usually the hardest working people you know. Hard work has next to nothing to do with it. It can help you, but you still need the luck.
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,930
The bit about the birthdays really spoke to me. I have an early birthday but I was also started at school early because I was in that age group where I could start school, only I'd be among the youngest as opposed to waiting a year where I'd be among the oldest. I understand why my parents did it, it makes sense in a way as there's a few good reasons. I often wonder just how different my life could have been had my folks waited a year and I'd surely have spent my school years being much more confident and. self assured.

As for the poll, working hard is always a good attitude but "luck" in the form of connections and/or family wealth will count for a lot more in most cases.
 

Don Fluffles

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,055



I generally don't make a thread just for a video, but this is the exception. It breaks down just how much luck plays into your success. It's definitely worth a watch (12 minutes) and shows that pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is a flawed concept.

Bootstraps and meritocracy is a myth made by the rich to justify oligarchy.
 

ItIsOkBro

Happy New Year!!
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,476
If luck encompasses the situation you're born with, then I'm gonna say 99% luck
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,557
Of course lucks plays into it.

Let me give some gurus who preach hard work but where pretty privileged.

Dave Ramsey. Huge hardwork, bootstrap guy. What did he as his first job--real estate investor. His parents were real estate agents.

Gary Vee. Mega hustle preacher. First job? Working for his dad's liquor store business.

To Gary's credit, he did increase revenue many times over. But not many are born into family businesses.

In the opposite end, you have folks that are and don't care for it and squander it.

Then there's survivorship bias.



Tons of janitors, people who work service jobs, truckers, and so on work hard and are never conventionally successful. Many even working multiple jobs.
I suppose success is relative. I consider these to be successful careers that you have to work hard to achieve/maintain.

If we're saying success is becoming rich, than yeah, not always going to be about hard work.

People who work low paying, menial, thankless jobs are usually the hardest working people you know. Hard work has next to nothing to do with it. It can help you, but you still need the luck.
I said both are a factor. However it should be noted that when you put the hard work in also matters. I know I wont tell my kids to just hope they get lucky, I'm going to encourage them to put themselves in a position that would benefit their future.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
59,985
It's big in Japan, too, sadly.
Yeah, it's worse in Japan from what I've heard. They struggle with innovating as a result.

I suppose success is relative. I consider these to be successful careers that you have to work hard to achieve/maintain.

If we're saying success is becoming rich, than yeah, not always going to be about hard work.


I said both are a factor. However it should be noted that when you put the hard work in also matters. I know I wont tell my kids to just hope they get lucky, I'm going to encourage them to put themselves in a position that would benefit their future.

I'm mid career right now. The most successful people do get results, but they also have amazing networks, internally and externally. I don't know if that count as "hard work". It's working smart.

Working hard is a wandering generality. Moreover, it misses on of the greatest aspects of "success"--planning and strategy. All that is brainpower, not just "hard work".
 
Mar 30, 2019
9,058
It's an Americanism. Culturally, we're an anti-intellectual nation hence you have platitudes like "hard work" promoted as part of the national religion.
This is very true. Hard work is a nebulous term. I used to work very hard when I was on my own for the first time. Until my father stepped in and gave me an invaluable opportunity to better myself. I'm not kidding when I say my life would be completely different if I stayed in Florida instead of moving to New York mid 2000's.

Personally, I was lucky. I've seen many make well for themselves from hard work too. I did a lot of menial and grueling tasks myself, but I can't pretend that that is how I came into my good position today.
 
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Lion

Banned
Jul 7, 2020
593
You have to make your own luck. That being said, there is always an element of luck in being around at the right time. For example your couldn't make an amazon now as that niche is already filled. I am taking success as in actually achieving something in your life, being wealthy via inheritance does not men your are a success.
Most successful people I know have worked fucking hard, and most of them excelled academically. I find the routine dismissal the role of hard work in success almost offensive. In my family no one has attended private school or benefited from nepotism in any way.
 

AmericanKirby

Member
Aug 31, 2018
774
Inside your house
Outside of rare edgecases, both are a requirement. You need to work hard, but also be in the right place at the right time and know the right people. Also helps a lot to be born relatively well-off.
 

Aureon

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,819
90\10 for Luck once you account for

- Country Lottery (Are you born in the western world?)
- Talent Lottery (Do you have a particular aptitude for a marketable skill?)
- Parent Lottery (Are your folks rich?)
- Prejudice Lottery (Are you male \ white \ straight, or the equivalent for the country you're born in?)
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,557
Yeah, it's worse in Japan from what I've heard. They struggle with innovating as a result.



I'm mid career right now. The most successful people do get results, but they also have amazing networks, internally and externally. I don't know if that count as "hard work". It's working smart.

Working hard is a wandering generality. Moreover, it misses on of the greatest aspects of "success"--planning and strategy. All that is brainpower, not just "hard work".
I was including working smart into the hard working equation since there were only two options here. I do consider things like networking and making opportunity for yourself to be more smart work than hard work, but you're putting the effort in either way. It's more work than luck in my opinion.

Some people are just born into it, and they're lucky. Most people have to make the most of their situation to be successful, that's not as luck based.
 

PanickyFool

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,947
Luck had me born white male and attend a great public school system.

Choices (that I stand by) made me homeless with family.

Hardwork and a smart choice got me out of NY (incredibly shitty public aid) and into a university in a state that does not suck to be homeless in, Arkansas.

Luck presented a opportunity to exploit.

Hard work (5 years of nothing but work, to the detriment of my family) and smart work got me to a multi million dollar company in my 20s. Could never get investors though, tried for years.

Sheer fucking luck had me sell the company with perfect, end of the world definitely would have been bankrupt, timing.

6 months of 2 hours of sleep, and nothing but hard work got me through due diligence.

I would put it at 50/50. Completely burnt out now.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
59,985
I was including working smart into the hard working equation since there were only two options here. I do consider things like networking and making opportunity for yourself to be more smart work than hard work, but you're putting the effort in either way. It's more work than luck in my opinion.

Some people are just born into it, and they're lucky. Most people have to make the most of their situation to be successful, that's not as luck based.
Gotcha.

What about things like leadership skills and potential? Is that hard work? Some folks are just natural leaders. And leaders get rewarded more in our society.
 

Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,798
It's an Americanism. Culturally, we're an anti-intellectual nation hence you have platitudes like "hard work" promoted as part of the national religion.

Ya, that's true. It's just always bug me when people sarcastically talk about working hard and in my mind it's never been about working hard; it's been about working smart. People can work really hard, but if someone works smarter than them, the odds of them moving up is higher. So you need to work hard, but you also need to work smart to gain an edge. Luck certainly can be a part of the equation too, but I always feel like people leave out probably the most important part and that's about working smart.
 

Sei

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,708
LA
Luck, privilege, hard work, meeting the right people, having the right attitude.

Everything matters.
 

Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,798
Gotcha.

What about things like leadership skills and potential? Is that hard work? Some folks are just natural leaders. And leaders get rewarded more in our society.

I feel like how natural of a leader you are is the luck aspect of it, but you can use hard work and smart work to make up the short comings where you weren't lucky.
 

bastardly

Member
Nov 8, 2017
10,577
it starts out as luck in the form of an opportunity, and if you can deliver by working hard then thats where you can find success. at least thats how it worked out for me
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,557
Gotcha.

What about things like leadership skills and potential? Is that hard work? Some folks are just natural leaders. And leaders get rewarded more in our society.
I do think these skills can be learned, but some will have to put in more work than others. If you're born with the right skill set, that's the luck factor boosting you a lot.

Also I do want to specify that I'm talking as an American here. And yeah, luck is the sole factor in relation to where you're born.
 

Nola

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
8,025
Its mostly luck. At least in a majority of cases.

Luck determines your genetic traits, your starting lot in life, and it determines what your development is going to look like. It also largely determines how easy it will be to make it through college, how you will build initial equity, and what sort of networking/investment opportunities will be initially available. That accounts for a staggering amount of your later success.

From there it is a lot of coasting where smart, hard work can be a difference maker, but often companies/people aren't rewarding hard work so much as they are rewarding interpersonal relationships and meeting a baseline for acceptability, which often includes traits and characteristics that have little to do with how hard you were working. Most people, in my experience, actually see grinders as tools to utilize, not so much promote. You want a grinder and excellent worker to make your life easier, not get boosted up to your level. This was the case in my experience working in bars/restaraunts in college, up to corporate America at varying types of companies, big and small.

In terms of entrepreneurship, again, a lot is in who you know. I personally had the opportunity in one of my jobs during and after college to be around a lot of CEO's and incredibly wealthy people. Each one you could find a very rosy bootstrap narrative of how they went from rags to riches, but it was mostly bullshit. All of them, every one, either had wealthy parents that allowed them to take risks most could not, with the fallback to fail multiple times, angel investors that involved family and friends that walked them along the way, or the right connections because of fiends/family.
 

RecRoulette

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,044
You can't be successful without luck but you can be successful without hard work.