Is Sonic's move set in Smash really all that good?

[Uzumaki Goku]

From what I understand, he was very last minute addition to Brawl... (hence why he doesn't show in Subspace Emissary until the very end) and you can kinda tell in his moves for Smash, two of his special moves are the exact same thing (rolling into a ball and charging forward) and several of his moves are taken from other characters. He has the same down air as Sheik and he has Falco's forward air as well.

Which makes me wonder if this is the reason another Sonic character hasn't gotten in as a echo of Sonic like Shadow or Tails.

 

[Bradford]

As a representative of a franchise, his moveset feels slightly lacking. As a competitive toolset? It's very good.

 

[Uzumaki Goku]

As a representative of a franchise, his moveset feels slightly lacking. As a competitive toolset? It's very good.

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Well... I remember Sonic Battle gave him some fighting moves... kinda surprised they didn't take some from there.

 

[flashman92]

With each new entry they take away one of his many many "spindashes." Hopefully it won't be long until he gets a real forward special.

 

[TimPV3]

Old message boards tell me Sakurai said (at a GDC maybe?) that Sonic wasn't added until the summer of 2007, while everyone else was decided and close to being completed by the beginning of 2006. I don't see why that would prevent him from getting an echo 10 years later though.

 

[Uzumaki Goku]

Old message boards tell me Sakurai said (at a GDC maybe?) that Sonic wasn't added until the summer of 2007, while everyone else was decided and close to being completed by the beginning of 2006. I don't see why that would prevent him from getting an echo 10 years later though.

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Yeah... so he almost didn't happen.

 

[Mesoian]

Remember when the smash community hated sonic because his movement tech was so much better than everyone elses that it made catching him an herculean feat?



Pepperidge Farms remembers.

(Sonic is very very good).

 

[Jaymageck]

I think if Sakurai brought him in as a new character now he might take more creative liberty with the moveset.

 

[Lucas M. Thomas]

One direction I could see for the next Smash is going back to retool the older fighters (to a greater extent than ever before).

 

[steviestar3]

Sonic was definitely rushed for Brawl but it's lame that he never really got the touch ups he deserved after that. Other Brawl newcomers like Wario, King Dedede, Zero Suit Samus, Wolf, Pit, and all three Pokemon Trainer Pokemon got extensive reworks in Smash 4/Ultimate but Sonic has barely gotten anything and feels just as underwhelming as he did back in 2008.

 

[StraySheep]

One direction I could see for the next Smash is going back to retool the older fighters (to a greater extent than ever before).

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Have been thinking the same thing. With a smaller 99% Nintendo roster.

 

[Deleted member 36578]

I just don't like his side B tbh. I love the spring. Love the spin dash. Love the homing attack.

 

[Lumination]

As a representative of a franchise, his moveset feels slightly lacking. As a competitive toolset? It's very good.

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Yup. One and done. Very surprised they never added more flair and pomp to his moveset after 2 more iterations.

 

[NoName999]

I think if Sakurai brought him in as a new character now he might take more creative liberty with the moveset.

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Knowing how they did Steve, with Sonic, he would have to collect rings and if you hit him when he has no rings, he instantly dies.

Also, his moveset would probably be more boost-era oriented.

 

[Another]

Personally, he's my least favorite fighter ever since he joined back in Brawl. He's very viable competitively, though.

 

[RROCKMAN]

As someone who actually plays his games it is ass

He doesn't use his feet anywhere near enough and a lot of the cool moves from Sonic Advance and Battle are nowhere to be seen.

I guess if he had those moves plus his high base speed he would be completely OP though, so I guess that could be why there's been almost no changes to him.

 

[HMS_Pinafore]

Sonic feeling underwhelming because he was rushed into Brawl is the perfect reference to the sonic games feeling rushed and underwhelming. Based Massive Hero Samurai.

 

[RagnarokX]

I wish his specials were based on the elemental shields from Sonic 3.

Up b - lightning
Side b - flame
Down b - bubble

 

[SanTheSly]

This showed up in my recommended vids a while back.

 

[Dyle]

It isn't great in terms of series representation but it is very good as a fully functional moveset, even if many players don't make full use of it.

 

[NeonZ]

Well... I remember Sonic Battle gave him some fighting moves... kinda surprised they didn't take some from there.

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His neutral punch, his wind up punch and a bunch of his kicks are actually taken from Sonic The Fighters.

 

[RROCKMAN]

I wish his specials were based on the elemental shields from Sonic 3.

Up b - lightning
Side b - flame
Down b - bubble

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Make down b meteor people offstage and it would be better than what the smash team came up with

His neutral punch, his wind up punch and a bunch of his kicks are actually taken from Sonic The Fighters.

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To this DAY I still wonder why they pulled so many moves from that janky game rather than anything contemporary


I wonder if it was a Sega mandate?

 

[NeonZ]

To this DAY I still wonder why they pulled so many moves from that janky game rather than anything contemporary

I wonder if it was a Sega mandate?

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Pretty sure it's just a case of Sakurai having nostalgia for it somehow. Note that in spite of having the modern Sonic design, which was certainly a Sega mandate, Sonic's running animation in Smash was based on Sonic CD rather than any of the more famous 2d games or the modern 3d games.

 

[RagnarokX]

This showed up in my recommended vids a while back.

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Smash Sonic spins more than Sonic has in every Sonic Team game since Unleashed combined.

 

[Shane M]

I like that Sonic's neutral combo is punch-punch-kick as an intentional reference to Sega's Virtua Fighter series.

 

[Jimnymebob]

Yeah, Sonic is a decent character competitively, but he's just not that fun to play, and it's especially noticeable with a lot of new characters having loads of unique systems etc.

 

[Spinluck]

Pretty awesome moveset.

Simple and to the point.

He's fast and turns into a ball.

No need to complicate it.

 

[flashman92]

I like that Sonic's neutral combo is punch-punch-kick as an intentional reference to Sega's Virtua Fighter series.

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I think it's taken from Sonic the Fighters, which was made by the VF team

 

[RochHoch]

It's a real shame that Sakurai seems to be against changing up how any characters play in Smash

We get stuck with stupid stuff like two of Sonic's specials basically being the exact same thing, or Kirby's awful moveset

 

[CoinStarDX]

People complain about all of sonics moves being spindashes, but that's a huge part of why I love using him. Really easy to confuse and lead your opponent when most of your attacks look and sound the same

It's a real shame that Sakurai seems to be against changing up how any characters play in Smash

We get stuck with stupid stuff like two of Sonic's specials basically being the exact same thing, or Kirby's awful moveset

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Sonics down b and side b function completely differently, and is exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[NotLiquid]

Sonic has some moves I think are fun using (BAir, FSmash, UAir when it works) but despite being a competitively strong character since Smash 4, his overall move set feels rather mediocre. I know Sakurai more consciously wanted it to be very simple as a reflection of the classic Sonic games, presumably since those are some of the more popular games in Japan and also because he was a late addition, but he's one of the few "fast" characters that feels somewhat inhibited, since it's usually better to double down on a single move as a dominant option (spin dash). It becomes pretty rote; both playing as and playing against. I think it would be easy to at least mitigate some of it if Spin Dash had nerfs to its invincibility though, and I understand why they're apprehensive of changing him since much like Ganondorf, he does have legitimate fans of the way he plays.

As a side note I'm also kind of bummed to this day that they gave Sonic a Falco FAir rather than his awesome axe kick from Sonic Battle. I know his current one has utility but it doesn't feel very "Sonic"-like, that was one thing I like about his Project M version.

 

[RochHoch]

Sonics down b and side b function completely differently, and is exactly what I'm talking about.

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They're Spindash 1 and Spindash 2. Boring, they could do better.

 

[RagnarokX]

Pretty sure it's just a case of Sakurai having nostalgia for it somehow. Note that in spite of having the modern Sonic design, which was certainly a Sega mandate, Sonic's running animation in Smash was based on Sonic CD rather than any of the more famous 2d games or the modern 3d games.

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When Sega thought this looked good:

 

[CoinStarDX]

They're Spindash 1 and Spindash 2. Boring, they could do better.

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The fact that most players can't tell which I'm about to use is a huge part of why sonic plays great. He's fast and all of his options appear similar from the outside looking in. The entire point of the character is to overwhelm opponents.

 

[Poltergust]

It's really only his side-B and up-smash that need complete overhauls. Everything else that makes use of his ball form (neutral-B is Homing Attack, down-B is Spin Dash, n-air is his Spin Jump, and his d-throw sorta references how he operates spin switches in S3&K/Mania) makes sense, but those other moves are just superfluous and make him feel too samey.

I also think his f-air and u-tilt should be reworked since they're very "meh" when it comes to impact. U-tilt in particular also has next to no utility for his overall moveset.

At least they reworked his Brawl d-smash and dash attack (the former in Smash 4, the latter in both sequels) so that they don't use his ball form anymore.

 

[Ginger Hail]

I feel like his Side B is the main thing that deserves to get changed. A few normals changed here and there to become proper references would be nice too, but at the very least they've already taken out one or two of the other Spin Dash moves from his moveset. Easiest thing I could see them implement would be having Boost as his Side B and making it work much like Banjo's. Maybe not invincible, but give it a boost meter resource that drains when you use it.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Reminds me of how many people mentioned sonic in this thread:

What Smash Bros. veteran would you most want revamped (moveset, abilities, appearance, etc.)?

Posted this in the Smash megathread, but it go immediately buried All the DLC newcomers feel like the best possible realisation of those characters within Smash Bros. Pretty much all their moves have basis in their original games, and unique mechanics like Min-Min's arm stretching/switching and...

www.resetera.com

Would be cool to see some of these underwhelming movesets to get upgraded at some point

 

[MisterGrey3000]

I like playing with him but from a representation/fan service point of a view the best thing about Sonic's move-set is that the spin dash is on down B and that's how it ought to be (it's just like the classics) but everything else kind of sucks lol
His normals feel so "off"; they're a mix of other characters' moves and some random stuff from Sonic the Fighters. A speedy character like Sonic who relies on his quick feet should be giving Chun-Li a run for her money with a myriad of fast and crazy kicks. His down air is also pretty dumb too, being derivative of Zero Suit and Shiek's down aerial, it should be the bubble shield bounce attack from Sonic 3&K. Oh and it ought to be a crime that the insta-shield isn't his neutral air.
Side B should be the boost from Unleashed/Colors/Generations (The light speed dash would function too closely to the "Fox Illusion" attack).
And I also feel like the Up B should be a lighting shield double jump. I've honestly never been the biggest fan of Sonic randomly generating springs underneath himself.

It just kind of sucks seeing an icon like Sonic stuck as this rushed cobbled together fighter for years and years when characters like Megaman and Simon look and feel like they've stepped right out of their most cherished games. Things would be so different if Sonic debuted in Smash 4. I'd love for things to change in the next Smash game.

 

[DragonSJG]

He needs the boost or other stronger moves

 

[Dr. Dr. Dogtooth]

Sonic was added to Brawl in last possible minute, because it took very long to get the okay from Sega. That's why many moves are just the spin attack in different froms or borrowed moves from other characters.

Since Smash 4 and Ultimate were focused on adding stuff, Sonic was seen as okayish, so that they never needed to rework him.
For me he is another case, why the next Smaxh should be a reboot. All of the veterans need to be completely reworked. For example Donkey Kong doesn't have a attack with barrels and Ganondorf is still a semi-clone of Captain Falcon. I would love all of the characters getting as much care as the DLC characters.

 

[Jane]

Project M Sonic is pretty perfect imo. They changed his fair into his axe kick from Sonic Battle and his side B to be a spin into a sliding kick.

EDIT: they also made the minor cosmetic changes that his nair is like the insta-shield from Sonic 3, and his homing attack always moves in a straight line (IIRC)

 

[Josh378]

Wished they made a full on Sonic game with his smash lives. Would be amazing!!!

 

[MisterGrey3000]

Sonic was added to Brawl in last possible minute, because it took very long to get the okay from Sega. That's why many moves are just the spin attack in different froms or borrowed moves from other characters.

Since Smash 4 and Ultimate were focused on adding stuff, Sonic was seen as okayish, so that they never needed to rework him.
For me he is another case, why the next Smaxh should be a reboot. All of the veterans need to be completely reworked. For example Donkey Kong doesn't have a attack with barrels and Ganondorf is still a semi-clone of Captain Falcon. I would love all of the characters getting as much care as the DLC characters.

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Oh wow I'm a DK fan and I never even thought about the fact that he has no barrels in his move-set. That would make way more sense as his neutral B than that dumb "giant punch" that doesn't originate from any of his games. Yeah, I'd be down for a reboot that retools many of the veterans.
As I said above it's super annoying to see characters like Simon and Megaman be so accurate to their games while chacters like Sonic, Ganondorf, and even Mario barely resemble the characters that they're supposed to be.

 

[Jon_Sama]

I mean Sonic doesn't do much besides go fast and roll into a ball in his game anyway, so it feels on point tbh

 

[Dr. Dr. Dogtooth]

Oh wow I'm a DK fan and I never even thought about the fact that he has no barrels in his move-set. That would make way more sense as his neutral B than that dumb "giant punch" that doesn't originate from any of his games. Yeah, I'd be down for a reboot that retools many of the veterans.
As I said above it's super annoying to see characters like Simon and Megaman be so accurate to their games while chacters like Sonic, Ganondorf, and even Mario barely resemble the characters that they're supposed to be.

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I completely understand, why Donkey Kong works they way he does. He represent the archetype of a heavy weight grappler (like Zangief), so DK throwing a barrel would go against that concept. In a lot of the veteran characters you can really see Sakurais love for fighting games, since the character represent archetypes of fighting game characters more then there sources. But i believe Sakruai really doesn't need to build on that anymore, since he created his own genre.

Even so it is hard to me to see, how he is tackling Mario in a reboot. On one hand Mario could have great mechanics like different Power Ups. But on the other hand he also represents the Default so he should represent the game as a whole.

 

[Deleted member 33533]

Oh the potential...

 

[NeonZ]

Even so it is hard to me to see, how he is tackling Mario in a reboot. On one hand Mario could have great mechanics like different Power Ups. But on the other hand he also represents the Default so he should represent the game as a whole.

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Mario has been stuck with FLUDD since Brawl, in spite of that being a reference to a specific game and not fitting at all the concept of Mario being a simple and straightforward character.

The fact that Sakurai avoids fully revamping even a single character is why I don't think an actual moveset "reboot" will ever happen either. If he feels like changing a character's moveset completely is the same as cutting them, I don't see how he'd just go and then change everyone. A reboot probably would just be the same kind of system and moveset updates we see from one game to another, just this time completely redoing the animations and models, even if just to recreate the same attacks they had before in many cases.

 

[Giga Man]

I fucking hate his forward air. It looks so fucking stupid. Why doesn't he do the Sonic Eagle axe kick from Sonic Battle? Why doesn't he have ANYTHING from Sonic Battle!?

 

[King Kingo]

Pretty awesome moveset.

Simple and to the point.

He's fast and turns into a ball.

No need to complicate it.

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Yeah, Sonic is a fun and easy character to play as. I love using his homing attack.

 

[Mory Dunz]

Fludd is an amazing concept for a fighting game.
One of those things on paper that seems like it'd be hard/dumb when implemented.
Mario keeping fludd makes sense.


sonic should probably have the ring throw like in sonic battle. It could be like pac-mans.
but overall he's fine.