Because many sections of that level are speed sections you just blaze through. It isnt as big as you are making it out to be.
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Is Sonic a poorly designed game?
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Because many sections of that level are speed sections you just blaze through. It isnt as big as you are making it out to be.
Sonic is a fantastic design that requires players to both move quick, but also know when to move slower with precision.
What makes sonic great is that it doesn't play like any game that came before it and very few that came after it. Most platformers had basically followed the standard Mario formula. Some may have switched up the jump on heads mechanic (which Sonic retained) but Sonic didn't feel like anything that had come before.
Also, the Sonic boss fights are fucking epic and much better than anything Mario would throw at players for years.
What makes sonic great is that it doesn't play like any game that came before it and very few that came after it. Most platformers had basically followed the standard Mario formula. Some may have switched up the jump on heads mechanic (which Sonic retained) but Sonic didn't feel like anything that had come before.
Also, the Sonic boss fights are fucking epic and much better than anything Mario would throw at players for years.
Also demonstrates pretty well why the series had a tough time transitioning when AAA games became less about "two-hour-at-most campaign with endless replay value" and more "ten-hour one-and-done experience." For the kind of speed and spectacle people expect from the series, these levels need to be huge, which also eats up time and resources on the development side of things. This is no better demonstrated than by Sonic Unleashed, which has utterly massive daytime levels, but probably the most blatant filler the series has had to stretch out what would be a solid three-hour game (if it was only daytime stages) into a fifteen-hour slog.
There's been a weird narrative around the Sonic Adventure games that they've always been seen as terrible through and through, but the prevailing sentiment from when those games released was "if we could have a game that was full of Sonic stages, it'd be a masterpiece," compared to the Tails and Knuckles gameplay you'd see in SA2 to push the game up to a decent length.
But this is about the 2D games anyway, which fortunately all released before this became a major issue. There's no way Sega would have gotten away with releasing either of the Sonic 4 episodes, or Mania as a full, $60 game. Hell, just look at how people reacted to Crash 4 being full-priced.
it tried a lot of things and did pretty poorly at most of them except for the character creator
That level is pure left to right, so you can't really get lost. But in general, Sonic levels tend to use a lot of one way gating to keep you on track. Trust that the level design will guide you.
Yeah iunno. Just seems like those who don't enjoy Sonic games are all coming out of the woodwork to air their grievances.
Which is fine! If the game's not for you, it's not for you, so let it all out lol. Better to do it than other threads.
But for real — Sonic 2 and 3K are phenomenal, easily up there with the absolute best platformers of the era.
For those having trouble with the games, follow these tips! ✨
— Curl into a ball on downslopes. Just get into the habit of basically always doing that. Curling up makes you go much faster downhill than just running, but more importantly, you'll be MUCH less vulnerable.
— Let the level design guide your speed. Some parts are very obviously designed to be blasted through, other parts are meant to be played more deliberately. Once you start paying attention, you'll find that the Stages generally do a good job of letting you know when it's time to slow down (and no, I ain't just talking about cheap hits lol)
— Holding down the Dpad will send Sonic gradually into a full-on sprint. So if you want him to go slower, try repeatedly tapping the Dpad, rather than just holding it down. He'll slow down or speed up, according to how rapidly you tap. (Repeatedly tapping the Dpad in Sonic is akin to running without B in Mario. It sounds goofy as hell but it works.)
Sonic games become a lot more intuitive the moment you let go of some of the conventions and preclusions of other platformers.
Which is fine! If the game's not for you, it's not for you, so let it all out lol. Better to do it than other threads.
But for real — Sonic 2 and 3K are phenomenal, easily up there with the absolute best platformers of the era.
For those having trouble with the games, follow these tips! ✨
— Curl into a ball on downslopes. Just get into the habit of basically always doing that. Curling up makes you go much faster downhill than just running, but more importantly, you'll be MUCH less vulnerable.
— Let the level design guide your speed. Some parts are very obviously designed to be blasted through, other parts are meant to be played more deliberately. Once you start paying attention, you'll find that the Stages generally do a good job of letting you know when it's time to slow down (and no, I ain't just talking about cheap hits lol)
— Holding down the Dpad will send Sonic gradually into a full-on sprint. So if you want him to go slower, try repeatedly tapping the Dpad, rather than just holding it down. He'll slow down or speed up, according to how rapidly you tap. (Repeatedly tapping the Dpad in Sonic is akin to running without B in Mario. It sounds goofy as hell but it works.)
Sonic games become a lot more intuitive the moment you let go of some of the conventions and preclusions of other platformers.
Like, I still can't believe that there are people out there that think that Sonic, the one and only that could fight (and even win in some places) against Mario and Nintendo, is a badly designed game. It's just too crazy.
Lot of great games aren't for everyone, that is one thing, and it's ok, but you wont' see people saying Mario, Zelda, Tomb Raider... aren't badly designed games, because they were era defining games. And Sonic was too, even if you didn't like it.
Lot of great games aren't for everyone, that is one thing, and it's ok, but you wont' see people saying Mario, Zelda, Tomb Raider... aren't badly designed games, because they were era defining games. And Sonic was too, even if you didn't like it.
This is entirely based on what game you are playing.
Sonic game design is not bad by default, in fact, Sonic 1-3, Sonic and Knuckles, Sonic CD, Sonic Mania, Sonic Advance 1-3 were all brilliant games. Sonic Generations and Sonic Colors were also great games.
Outside of that though, there is a lot of bad design in many of the games. Sonic Adventure 2, for example, had fun but unpolished Sonic stages (that also had some weak design aspects, but the Knuckles, Tails, Dr. Robotic stages were almost universally awful (they actually brought down the superior Sonic aspects).
So yeah, nothing is bad by default, but I think making a sonic game is incredibly tough, especially if the game design is focusing on speed over fresh gameplay mechanics, gimmicks, and well thought out platforming.
Sonic game design is not bad by default, in fact, Sonic 1-3, Sonic and Knuckles, Sonic CD, Sonic Mania, Sonic Advance 1-3 were all brilliant games. Sonic Generations and Sonic Colors were also great games.
Outside of that though, there is a lot of bad design in many of the games. Sonic Adventure 2, for example, had fun but unpolished Sonic stages (that also had some weak design aspects, but the Knuckles, Tails, Dr. Robotic stages were almost universally awful (they actually brought down the superior Sonic aspects).
So yeah, nothing is bad by default, but I think making a sonic game is incredibly tough, especially if the game design is focusing on speed over fresh gameplay mechanics, gimmicks, and well thought out platforming.
The biggest issue is a problem on your end: You simply don't like how the game plays. No amount of changes the the level design will change that you don't like how Sonic controls. Which is completely fine! But it's a game specifically designed with those physics in mind. It's not a mistake on the designers part, it's a game that's designed with a certain set of physics in mind.
The other point of contention for you seems to be that you disdain Classic Sonic games for having depth at all. Yes it takes multiple playthroughs to learn a single route and there are two and sometimes three routes through a stage. Why is this bad? Are "Character Action" games bad because you can still be learning new things about the combat system on your 5th playthrough? And on a basic level, most platformers (the amazing ones anyway) encourage the same thing. I'm sorry if you don't like how the game plays but outside of completely reworking how Sonic moves nothing is going to change how you feel.
The other point of contention for you seems to be that you disdain Classic Sonic games for having depth at all. Yes it takes multiple playthroughs to learn a single route and there are two and sometimes three routes through a stage. Why is this bad? Are "Character Action" games bad because you can still be learning new things about the combat system on your 5th playthrough? And on a basic level, most platformers (the amazing ones anyway) encourage the same thing. I'm sorry if you don't like how the game plays but outside of completely reworking how Sonic moves nothing is going to change how you feel.
Here you go OP. These are your people.
www.ign.com
SEGA Doubles Down on Sonic - Game Scoop! - IGN
The Scoop! on those two new Sonic the Hedgehog games.
im in that same camp.
i think 2D Mario is very well designed but i much prefer is 3D stuff because i get bored of his 2D stuff most of the time.
very few exceptions for me when it comes to 2D Mario.
Please don't make new threads after being threadbanned from a thread on the same topic
This topic is for the most part redundant and identical to the previous thread; as such this thread is locked.
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This topic is for the most part redundant and identical to the previous thread; as such this thread is locked.
Anybody else just not "get" Sonic games in terms of platforming design?
I've tried so many times to get into 2D Sonic games, especially after being charmed by the stellar presentation of Sonic Mania when it launched years ago. But no matter how hard I try they just never seem to make any sense to me. I love 2D platformers and play pretty much all of them, but the...
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