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Is Smash Bros a fighting game / why do some players insist on it not being one?

FSLink

FSLink

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,262
You could say that Smash emphasizes being in the air more often, but I wouldn't say that anime fighters or Marvel didn't have footsies.

lvl 99 Pixel said:
You can and will block high and low and diagonally in smash because you angle your shield as it gets smaller to avoid hits getting through (or in melee you have light shields which are larger with more pushback). Once again that's not something that defines the genre. Would you call Pokken not a fighter because it has shields similar to smash that ignore high/low and break after enough hits? What about ARMS or Naruto Ninja Storm? Such a useless qualifier.
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To add to this, Ultimate added a shortcut to angle your shield easier by holding shield + B, or both shield buttons. It's even in the in-game tips.
 
Lynd

Lynd

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,440
Back when the first one was out/around that era it was considered a party game basically and pretty much everyone didn't think it was a proper fighter.
 
Command & Conker

Command & Conker

Member
Oct 1, 2019
191
lvl 99 Pixel said:
You can and will block high and low and diagonally in smash because you angle your shield as it gets smaller to avoid hits getting through (or in melee you have light shields which are larger with more pushback). Once again that's not something that defines the genre. Would you call Pokken not a fighter because it has shields similar to smash that ignore high/low and break after enough hits? What about ARMS or Naruto Ninja Storm? Such a useless qualifier.
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It wasn't my only qualifier. I was saying there are enough differences, to me personally, that I don't consider it to be the same as a fighting game.

I do see where you're coming from though. It's okay we have a different opinion. At least we both enjoy Smash!
 
Platy

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,703
Brazil
Kodaman said:
karate champ its not a fighting game

discuss
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Been thinking about this .... most "smash is not a fighting game because fighting games are X" imply that Street Fighter 2 didn't just popularized and inovated the genre... it CREATED the genre.

It makes my jokes of using "street fighter 2 clone" to denote traditional fighters even more hilarious
 
lvl 99 Pixel

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,706
Havoc_Blank said:
It wasn't my only qualifier. I was saying there are enough differences, to me personally, that I don't consider it to be the same as a fighting game.
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Combo into advantage state, wait for the tech option, apply safe pressure on block, whiff punish
Every match can be described like this and it functions pretty similarly to most fighters at the fundamental level.
Spacing and footsies are such an important part of the game because a single opening frequently means the end of a stock.
 
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MrWindUpBird

MrWindUpBird

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,686
FSLink said:
Even if it were the case (see lv 99 Pixel's post)

Why does that matter if it's the standard?
Just enjoy it the way you like it, and watch the items on tourneys if that's what you want to do.
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Fair, my issues with deeming Smash not a fighting game shouldn't take away from the people who want to play it however they want, so carry on.
 
Crashman

Crashman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,110
I never understood the insistence that "party game" overrides genre. Party game should represent tone, not genre. Mario Party may be a party game, but its genre is more like mini game collection (or board game) and it's certainly not like Smash. Smash may be intended more for a casual or party like setting, but that doesnt change what its genre is. I'll concede that maybe it would need to be classified as a platform fighter, but it's a fighting game none the less.
 
Exellus

Exellus

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,348
I think moreso than anything to do with the mechanics of the game itself its simply the fact that Smash Bros. players and fans do not interact, integrate, or get along with other fighting game scenes.

You'll find a lot of crossover between Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, Tekken fans and players. Not so with Smash Bros. They only watch this one game, they only play this one game, they don't play or watch the other games.

If they want to be treated separately, the natural conclusion is to separate them.
 
Quebaz

Quebaz

Member
Nov 15, 2017
192
Havoc_Blank said:
I was pointing out blocking is vastly different in smash than any fighter. Look at Soul Calibur, it has a block button but it has high/lows. The blocking isn't that different from another 3D fighter if you look at it as a whole.
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Today I learned that the DBZ Budokai games aren't fighting games because there's no high/low blocking.

People come on.
 
Iori Loco

Iori Loco

Member
Nov 10, 2017
2,288
Havoc_Blank said:
I was pointing out blocking is vastly different in smash than any fighter. Look at Soul Calibur, it has a block button but it has high/lows. The blocking isn't that different from another 3D fighter if you look at it as a whole. Or at least when you compare them to Smash.

Also, at the end of the day we're arguing the definition of something that isn't defined. We all have our opinions and no one has the actual definition of a fighting game. If you think Smash is a fighting game, that's fine. I like fighting games and I like Smash.
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SNK Heroines has no crouching, so high-low mix-ups aren't a thing there.

Jumping is also vastly different in every subgenre of fighters visually and functionally. Jumps in Street Fighter are used to go over projectiles, cross-over your opponent or as a risky approach option, are nothing like those of Soulcalibur (where you need to press the block button before you can jump) or Tekken where you can't even go over your opponent and are used more to avoid low attacks, and those are also way different from anime and vs games where you can air dash and double jump or even fly and are used to get in, get out or fight in the air.
 
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Platy

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,703
Brazil
Havoc_Blank said:
I was pointing out blocking is vastly different in smash than any fighter. Look at Soul Calibur, it has a block button but it has high/lows. The blocking isn't that different from another 3D fighter if you look at it as a whole. Or at least when you compare them to Smash.
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And people joked when I said people don't consider power stone and divekick fighting games =P
 
MechaX

MechaX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,044
Quebaz said:
In this thread: Subgenres don't exist
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In terms of the "fighting game or not discussion," yeah, pretty much.

like, games like Gundam Extreme Vs or Virtual On are considered arena fighters, but still fighting game-adjacent or just a flat out sub genre (and they'll be at FGC events and no one is going to bat an eye).

Smash uses the same core principles when you get down to it, and it's still under that "fighting game" umbrella.

But like what was brought up earlier in the topic, a lot of the bad blood and misconceptions is due to how the communities just have never gotten along, and will continue to not get alone until both communities decide to play nice
 
Mekanos

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,176
"Smash doesn't have footsies"

People in this thread really make it obvious they don't follow competitive Smash in any way.

pld said:
I have looked up the definition of fighting game and everything stated there applies to Smash so why are people arguing again?
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Because something something health bars.

Exellus said:
I think moreso than anything to do with the mechanics of the game itself its simply the fact that Smash Bros. players and fans do not interact, integrate, or get along with other fighting game scenes.

You'll find a lot of crossover between Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, Tekken fans and players. Not so with Smash Bros. They only watch this one game, they only play this one game, they don't play or watch the other games.

If they want to be treated separately, the natural conclusion is to separate them.
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Where does this idea come from that Smash fans want to be treated separately? This is such a fucking weird takeaway. There are millions of people who only play Mario Kart and not other racing games, but you would never argue Mario Kart isn't a racing game.
 

Gearkeeper 8A

Member
Oct 27, 2017
617
smash is mostly inspired of SNK fighting games, Hell ultimate make all jumpsquats have the same startup another inspiration of KoF, a character like terry will mostly feel at home inputs aside.
 
Hyun Sai

Hyun Sai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,562
They just announced that the Headlining fighting game of EVO Japan 2020 is Smash Bros Ultimate.

Best FG still winning !
 

Deleted member 10551

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,031
A lot of it is cultural differences between the FGC and Smashers, and the two groups not getting along (though that's more of an oldschool thing with Melee players, the newschool Smashers don't seem to be as bad about it)
 
Exellus

Exellus

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,348
Mekanos said:
"Smash doesn't have footsies"

People in this thread really make it obvious they don't follow competitive Smash in any way.



Because something something health bars.



Where does this idea come from that Smash fans want to be treated separately? This is such a fucking weird takeaway. There are millions of people who only play Mario Kart and not other racing games, but you would never argue Mario Kart isn't a racing game.
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I'm talking about cross-registrations and cross-participation. It's just fact, they don't participate in the other games.
 
Swift_Gamer

Swift_Gamer

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
3,701
Rio de Janeiro
Exellus said:
I think moreso than anything to do with the mechanics of the game itself its simply the fact that Smash Bros. players and fans do not interact, integrate, or get along with other fighting game scenes.

You'll find a lot of crossover between Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, Tekken fans and players. Not so with Smash Bros. They only watch this one game, they only play this one game, they don't play or watch the other games.

If they want to be treated separately, the natural conclusion is to separate them.
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It's still a fighting game and no amount of conjecture, seeing as you have no data to support those claims, will change this.
 

Deleted member 2669

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,044
These arguments are even worse than debates over what defines a JRPG. People always assert some hyper-specific criteria that don't make any sense, or pretend "party" is a genre and that Smash can only be one or the other.
 
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SweetVermouth

SweetVermouth

Banned
Mar 5, 2018
4,272
It is a fighting game and for the sake of the FGC I wish Smash players would play more traditional fighting games and vice versa.
 
Virtua Sanus

Virtua Sanus

Member
Nov 24, 2017
6,492
Someone saying the do not think it is a fighting game does not somehow devalue Smash Brothers. I am now sure why so many people are taking that as such a serious attack? People trash talk games like Pokken and Dead or Alive waaaay more but I have never once seen anyone suggest those are not fighting games.
 
Denryu

Denryu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
860
Brazil
Platy said:
a few days ago some footage of a SF pro player playing ryu or ken on smash LIKE in a street fighter match appeared ... it was fun xD
If I can remember who it was I post here
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Yeah that was Momochi, it was awesome seeing him play lol. I hope he decides to enter EVO Japan. He seems to be really into Smash now and has streamed it a few times.
 
EdgeXL

EdgeXL

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,788
California
fireflame said:
It is hard to compare it with other fighters as the goal is to kick the opponent out of the arena. otherwise can't see any other reason.Other than console warring, is there any serious argument to hold to claim it is not a fight game?
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That is one possible way to win in Soul Calibur too and that is regarded as a fighting game.

Anyone who claims Smash is not a fighting game is simply resorting to strange gatekeeping tactics.
 
Mekanos

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,176
Virtua Sanus said:
Someone saying the do not think it is a fighting game does not somehow devalue Smash Brothers. I am now sure why so many people are taking that as such a serious attack? People trash talk games like Pokken and Dead or Alive waaaay more but I have never once seen anyone suggest those are not fighting games.
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Because people who say it's not a fighting game clearly don't understand the game in a fundamental manner and are trying to tell people that do understand the game that the sky is green.
 
lvl 99 Pixel

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,706
Mekanos said:
Because people who say it's not a fighting game clearly don't understand the game in a fundamental manner and are trying to tell people that do understand the game that the sky is green.
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"The sky is green"
‍ "It's not and here's why"
"Well I think its green and that's all that matters"
‍ "that's unreasonable"
"well other people say its green!"

gaming's flat-earthers
 
Grapezard

Grapezard

Member
Nov 16, 2017
7,788
Smash is a fighting game while also being a party game and a platform fighter. Not that it matters what people call it.
 
Mass Effect

Mass Effect

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 31, 2017
16,793
the only dumbass motherfuckers saying Smash is not a fighting game these days are obnoxious gate-keeping pricks.
 
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